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Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,881
Can I drop the mic on some of you now, please?

Okay, so the way I see it, anyone defending this dialogue is either:

a) 16 years old.
b) Has no idea how real people talk in any context.
c) Is choking up hard on their fanboy bat at the plate for CDPR.
d) Wouldn't be able to recognize good writing if it jumped up their asshole while they were taking an Utter. Shit.

......
FUy6gHZ.gif
 

Nauren

Member
Oct 30, 2017
847
Can I drop the mic on some of you now, please?

Okay, so the way I see it, anyone defending this dialogue is either:

a) 16 years old.
b) Has no idea how real people talk in any context.
c) Is choking up hard on their fanboy bat at the plate for CDPR.
d) Wouldn't be able to recognize good writing if it jumped up their asshole while they were taking an Utter. Shit.

I'm going take the Yakuza series as my primary example for this. But more on that in a minute.

"Ooh, so what we should have polite criminals? You hear them dropping the F bomb 30 times per minute in a Scorsese flick."

Okay. But that's a Scorsese film. Scorsese films are often a deconstruction of machismo using exaggerated forms of the criminal male archetype. His whole career is built on making his male characters look as awful as possible in a given context. The reason why this works for Martin Fucking Scorsese and not CDPR is because all of the dialogue in a Scorsese film is used in such a way that forwards the narrative and builds upon the characters ego and internalizations. It's dialogue that pushes things toward an inevitably awful conclusion for that character.

Whereas in the footage we've seen of Cyber Punk the dialogue is either expository or throwaway insults of the most extreme nature. It's literally swearing for the sake of it. None of it enriches our understanding of the characters we're seeing. It's used so often that it's robbed of any emotional context. It's distracting vulgarity, pure and simple.

Yakuza. I've only just begun with the series having finished Yakuza 0 and currently playing Kiwami, but from what I've seen the people handling the English localization know how to write dialogue that conveys the emotional complexities of the criminal underworld.

Yakuza's dialogue is always working to deliver as much meaning as possible while resisting the urge to fall back on the macho alpha male bravado that so obviously defines the world we're observing. How many F bombs can you count in a Yakuza game? Not many. Why? Because the characters have depth, a sense of place and purpose, and when they do drop an F bomb, you sure as shit know it's because someone is really fucking pissed off. You know shit is about to hit the fan. It's got it's time and place in the narrative. It lends itself to the ego and psyche of these characters. It hits hard and it works. It doesn't take me out of the heat if the moment, it pulls me deeper into it because it's used in such a way that enriches the emotional narrative of the moment.

Cyber Spunk 2069 is absolutely an awesome looking game. It looks to have everything one could want in a sci-fi RPG set in a Blade Runner-esque type of world. There are impressive things at work there, but the writing and dialogue is not one of them.

These days, for me personally, a game is only as good as its story. Most of the time. What I saw here was a lot of "try hard, check out my sharp edge" bullshit with no real hook as to why I should care about a bunch of foul-mouthed killers. The liberal use of the C-word was also off-putting. It's actually rather indefensible. None of it felt like it was doing anything for the atmosphere or the narrative.

Anyone wanting to defend this type of piss-poor writing is more than welcome to. I'll chop it up to really shitty taste. Utterly. Shitty. Taste.

More edge then my jaina's cybernetic arm blade.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
And other people are saying it felt forced in the demo and was very distracting and cringe-worthy.

Does that really piss you off so much?
Saying something felt forced or cringe-worthy within saying why it felt that way isn't much of an argument.

People discussing the language have talked about context, other works where similar language and tone is used and why, and so on.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Writing. It's called writing. It's not real. You can tell a compelling narrative without a constant barrage of vulgarities, no?

It seems like most of you think this is really well written dialogue.

Interesting.
You can also tell a compelling narrative with those vulgarities included. Your argument was that no real person above the age of 16 talks like that. That's bullshit, plain and simple.
I never made a statement about the actual quality of the dialogue by the way.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
The notion comes from societal direction and expectations. We're often told throughout life how cursing belies intelligence and it's drilled into us through education that writing with poetic prose and extensive vocabulary is objectively better than writing without it. And the latter is true, to an extent. However most simply ignore the nuances. It happens in regards to lots of things. The idea that technical ability represents a higher standard regardless of the result.

This is true.

It took me a long time to accept that 'Their Eyes Were Watching God' was a masterpiece. The prose is beautiful, but the dialogue always threw me off.

For a lot of people, it is very difficult to discern good writing when the dialogue is meant to mirror contemporary speech.
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
Note to self: Never, ever, EVER offer up a thorough critique on ANY element of Cyber Punk, EVER. And for the love of god, you idiot, don't even think about trying to be self-deprecating or parody yourself over a goddamn forum. It just...it's too much for them when all they see is that hype train coming full steam ahead.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Again, there are hundreds of people reading this. Wait...do you even know what a nerd is? You are posting in a thread about a Cyberpunk video game.

Have you actually met any murderers or drug dealers recently?
Murderers no, drug dealers sure.

I was also in the military for a few years. According to some of you, infantry soldiers must all be 8 year olds.

In this context, "nerds" refers to sheltered people who actually don't realize that seedy people generally swear like sailors.
Note to self: Never, ever, EVER offer up a thorough critique on ANY element of Cyber Punk, EVER. And for the love of god, you idiot, don't even think about trying to be self-deprecating or parody yourself over a goddamn forum. It just...it's too much for them when all they see is that hype train coming full steam ahead.
You're really embarrassing yourself here.
 

Deleted member 3897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,638
And other people are saying it felt forced in the demo and was very distracting and cringe-worthy.

Does that really piss you off so much?

Then the game is not for you. Not every game is for everyone. Cyberpunk 2077 not being for you because of constant swearing and dialogue that you find cringeworthy or silly is okay, but that's how Cyberpunk is.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Oct 25, 2017
5,107
Taiwan
You can also tell a compelling narrative with those vulgarities included. Your argument was that no real person above the age of 16 talks like that. That's bullshit, plain and simple.
I never made a statement about the actual quality of the dialogue by the way.

There is a difference between a 16 and under swearing to a 20-something to a 30-something swearing though.

Trust me, I do not want 16 and under swearing.
 

Venom

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,635
Manchester, UK
I'm out.

This thread is really outing people who don't care what the fuck it is that CDPR puts out, they'll just lap it up as if it's the second-coming of Christ's Soup Kitchen.

The dialogue is garbage. Pure and simple. Sorry to hand it to you all with such clarity.

Catch me in my rum thread in the Off-Topic!
Thank fuck for that. You clearly have no exposure to any form of people who are considered criminals or someone from a lower social standing society and uses this language commonly.
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
User Banned (A day): Trolling + Antagonizing other members over a series of posts.
I take it all back. This thread is amazing. The avalanche I've caused.

Guys, do you realize how quick you all are to Negan my head in over this goddamn game?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,275
Edinburgh, Scotland
i don't really know if i can reconcile the position of 'the writing's supposed to be tryhard edgy bullshit, that's cyberpunk man!' with 'actually this is mature storytelling', is kinda the issue i have. One doesn't necessarily beget the other. Like, if that's what they're going for, cool, go off king, just don't expect us to laud it as if it's hemingway i guess.

it's almost like everyone in here's conceptualisation of maturity is that of a 13 year old boy but i dont knoooow

and maybe cdpr's, at least in the demo. 'this is a mature video game, you can tell by how little this woman is wearing'
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
What's this glorified matureness anyway? Well ok I have my own idea about that: some people's sense of self worth is tied to being perceived as mature.
 

Jacqli

Member
Nov 26, 2017
99
I do not mind the swearing that much, but while I was watching the trailer, for a moment I thought it was a Bethesda game. And that for me is the real problem.

The conversation between the main character and the other woman was so bad.
 

Much

The Gif That Keeps on Giffing
Member
Feb 24, 2018
6,067
giphy.webp

Finally a suitable time to use this gif to some of the hot takes in this thread. There is a discussion to be had on both sides, but I do think this argument is overblown.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Not until you showed up and "dropped the mic" on all of us.

Nah this thread is pretty bad. I just think people should take a step back, including yourself and myself, and look at what we're arguing about. It certainly isn't worth the animosity this thread is generating. And CDPR does not need to be defended so arduously. They have shown the ability to defend themselves, even if they haven't taken criticism well in the past either.

I don't really understand why you think the thread wasn't a shitshow before, since you've been involved in the last few pages and haven't made any effort at making it anything else but one.
 

BigWinnie1

Banned
Feb 19, 2018
2,757
Hah.

On that gameplay demo, the narrator said "Cyberpunk is a mature video game..." right at the scene where the female protagonist are on her undies.

I did a double take on that. It's like "ooh women in their undies... this is real mature stuff, people!", hahah.

I'm going to be honest man. It was one of the more realistic things I've seen.The only time my sister or mom bothered to wear something that wasn't like that in the house was when we had the AC cranking in the summer time. Most of the time it was No-bra, light t-shirt and a pair of panties or maybe no panties and just sleep pants. Or maybe they will just say fuck it that day and walk around the house top-less if we aren't expecting company that day. Seeing a female character like that in her own house is on more realistic things I've seen in video games.

Maybe I just grew up with a weird set of women in my house but to me and my dad it was just normal. Even my sisters husbands got used to seeing my mom around the house in just a slip when they were dating because Mom regarded them as family and didn't give a damn enough to put on clothes when they came over anymore XD.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
While I won't go into the specifics of how many times the F word is used within the 48 minutes of the gameplay demo (i'm sure someone has already counted it), I feel the need to get something off my chest as a middle aged gamer.

A mature title does not need dialogue that panders to the lowest common denominator of F this or F that every 8 seconds. The expression of "OMG we're in the shit now" buy using the word "Fuck" to convey the level of shock, intensity or outrage hits me as something I hope you look at. While I'm not advocating for any form of censorship of the game in any way shape or form, I hope that the dialogue between the characters isn't throw away tripe and actually builds complexity as the game progresses.

Full disclosure-- I haven't played any Witcher games (although I'd like to) and of course, I'm a Sci-Fi junkie. I love what I see from Cyberpunk 2077 but I hope this drives a healthy conversation about what actually makes a game mature themed.

I agree 100% OP.
I don't like what I'm seeing from Cyberpunk so far. Too many cliches. They're trying too much to be cool and that's one the reason you have an overdose of the F word.
 
Oct 28, 2017
237
Given the speed at which people are posting in the thread and the relatively small amount of people actually being quoted, to have been quoted so many times statistically showcases that your post stood out quite a bit. That every single one of the people who quoted that post interpreted your statement the exact same way does indeed illustrate that the problem is in how you're expressing yourself.

Not seeing it. There's far more people choosing not to post at all and a few people out of hundreds that don't enjoy me being provocative and choose to interpret it as condescending doesn't imply a ' problem '
Also, as you'll note, I apologized it came off that way...but I'm ok with it. Certainly I've shown how language can be far more effective and emotive when used as a scalpel and not a shotgun.
 
Jan 9, 2018
858
One thing to take into consideration is that the level of profanity is a bit different in each culture, I wasn't totally aware of that but at least between my friends, when we speak in Spanish (from Spain, not sure if is the same in other Spanish speaking countries) we use "joder" (fuck in Spanish, same meaning and same usage) almost in every other sentence. So for my point of view, the dialogue in the Cyberpunk video didn't seem especially outrageous at all.

Also, I notice in that U.K. (where I'm living at the moment) seems to be more liberal with the use of swear words (also notable if you compare IGN U.K. with the USA team)

Is this common in other countries as well?, there are non-USA speakers also annoyed by the level of fucks given by sentence?

Just curious if this is a more spread cultural thing or not.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
no one is being angry or surprised though?

They are saying they purely the depiction of "a dystopian hell scape full of sex, drugs, gangsters, murders, more drugs, body mutilation, sex, sex, drugs, and more killing and maiming than the sex and drugs parts combined" does not make a mature game but how those themes are used and depicted.

from what we have seen of cyberpunk so far they have fallen into the trap of sex = mature topic so showing sex = mature, swearing is a thing adults do so lots of swearing = mature, drugs is a thing adults do showing people doing drugs = mature. when this is not the case at-all. hopefully this is not the case and the rest of the game shows this.

I just described to you how the game is mature both in it's contents and themes. Showing peoples day to day lives means you show drugs, sex, murder and so on, that's inherently "mature" topics, because like most adults, it's simply a part of life and not overly glorified.

The main character woke up after a three day bender with a random dude. It wasn't going "OMG LOOK SHE GOT LAAAAAAAID", it was literally just giving you the setting that she blew her money on partying and hooked up with someone, because that's something most people do in that world, as well as this world.

OP is literally complaining that he thinks the developers fell into the trap you just described. The issue with this thinking is it's Cyberpunk.
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
I agree 100% OP.
I don't like what I'm seeing from Cyberpunk so far. Too many cliches. They're trying too much to be cool and that's one the reason you have an overdose of the F word.

Hey, welcome to the thread! Are you here to get your verbal flogging as well?

You'll be happy to know they've worn out their whips already from ripping me to shreds.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Note to self: Never, ever, EVER offer up a thorough critique on ANY element of Cyber Punk, EVER. And for the love of god, you idiot, don't even think about trying to be self-deprecating or parody yourself over a goddamn forum. It just...it's too much for them when all they see is that hype train coming full steam ahead.
You're embarrassing yourself my dude.
 

Venom

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,635
Manchester, UK
Writing. It's called writing. It's not real. You can tell a compelling narrative without a constant barrage of vulgarities, no?

It seems like most of you think this is really well written dialogue.

Interesting.
Because not all of us are lucky enough to have come from an environment where this language is second nature and seems appropriate in the game.

That's not that hard to understand and maybe if you got off your higher class horse, you'd take two seconds to think about that instead of slyly putting some of us down. If you have nothing to contribute further, please feel free to leave or think about what you're saying.
 

Markitron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,510
Ireland
Can I drop the mic on some of you now, please?

Okay, so the way I see it, anyone defending this dialogue is either:

a) 16 years old.
b) Has no idea how real people talk in any context.
c) Is choking up hard on their fanboy bat at the plate for CDPR.
d) Wouldn't be able to recognize good writing if it jumped up their asshole while they were taking an Utter. Shit.

I'm going take the Yakuza series as my primary example for this. But more on that in a minute.

"Ooh, so what we should have polite criminals? You hear them dropping the F bomb 30 times per minute in a Scorsese flick."

Okay. But that's a Scorsese film. Scorsese films are often a deconstruction of machismo using exaggerated forms of the criminal male archetype. His whole career is built on making his male characters look as awful as possible in a given context. The reason why this works for Martin Fucking Scorsese and not CDPR is because all of the dialogue in a Scorsese film is used in such a way that forwards the narrative and builds upon the characters ego and internalizations. It's dialogue that pushes things toward an inevitably awful conclusion for that character.

Whereas in the footage we've seen of Cyber Punk the dialogue is either expository or throwaway insults of the most extreme nature. It's literally swearing for the sake of it. None of it enriches our understanding of the characters we're seeing. It's used so often that it's robbed of any emotional context. It's distracting vulgarity, pure and simple.

Yakuza. I've only just begun with the series having finished Yakuza 0 and currently playing Kiwami, but from what I've seen the people handling the English localization know how to write dialogue that conveys the emotional complexities of the criminal underworld.

Yakuza's dialogue is always working to deliver as much meaning as possible while resisting the urge to fall back on the macho alpha male bravado that so obviously defines the world we're observing. How many F bombs can you count in a Yakuza game? Not many. Why? Because the characters have depth, a sense of place and purpose, and when they do drop an F bomb, you sure as shit know it's because someone is really fucking pissed off. You know shit is about to hit the fan. It's got it's time and place in the narrative. It lends itself to the ego and psyche of these characters. It hits hard and it works. It doesn't take me out of the heat if the moment, it pulls me deeper into it because it's used in such a way that enriches the emotional narrative of the moment.

Cyber Spunk 2069 is absolutely an awesome looking game. It looks to have everything one could want in a sci-fi RPG set in a Blade Runner-esque type of world. There are impressive things at work there, but the writing and dialogue is not one of them.

These days, for me personally, a game is only as good as its story. Most of the time. What I saw here was a lot of "try hard, check out my sharp edge" bullshit with no real hook as to why I should care about a bunch of foul-mouthed killers. The liberal use of the C-word was also off-putting. It's actually rather indefensible. None of it felt like it was doing anything for the atmosphere or the narrative.

Anyone wanting to defend this type of piss-poor writing is more than welcome to. I'll chop it up to really shitty taste. Utterly. Shitty. Taste.
This post has to be a parody or something, the lack of self-awareness is unreal.
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
Note to self: Never, ever, EVER offer up a thorough critique on ANY element of Cyber Punk, EVER.

This should absolutely be the rule, for you. Others are still welcome to offer their criticism. The lack of maturity you've demonstrated in this thread shows that you don't really have anything to contribute at this time.