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Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,465
I wrote this post on Medium and wanted to share, in case it sparks discussion. I've quoted the full post here because I don't want to force people to redirect away from ERA to read. However, there's a link for those that might want to read the article with its original formatting.

Link to original Medium article


Notably, this regards something that I think is a significant issue with the player experience in Monster Hunter World. For me, it's a big turn off when it comes to playing the game, and why I'm always hesitant to recommend the game to new players without a caution that it's often, needlessly complicated and obtuse.

Critical Failings of Monster Hunter World's Early Player Experience
For many, Monster Hunter World offers an enticing gameplay experience. A compelling gameplay loop, coupled with a robust combat system that's simply unrivalled. However, like a delicious cake with a stale crust, Monster Hunter World also presents a significant number of barriers to reaching that experience.

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Before criticising the player experience, it's important to understand the games' design intent. If navigating the interface was an intended source of challenge, then critiquing seemingly counterintuitive interfaces may be unwarranted. This may sound usual, but it's not uncommon for games to feature this type of design. Games like Exapunks feature complex interfaces, filled with jargon and mechanics that the player is unlikely to intuitively understand. Yet it's the design intent that players spend time learning how these work, and stripping away this complexity would subsequently harm the games core design.


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Exapunk's interface is intentionally complex, yet developing a gradual understanding of it is core to the design intent​
However, this isn't the case for Monster Hunter World. The design intent is clearly focused around it's combat and RPG systems — using a wide variety of weapons, armour and tools to fight giant dinosaur like monsters, only to upgrade your weapons, armour and tools to fight stronger and stronger monsters. The intended source of challenge stems from the moment to moment combat mechanics, and how the player choses to prepare and strategise for each fight. Issues with learnability or understandability that detract from this experience, act as barriers to the design intent and harm the player experience.

With this criteria in mind, Monster Hunter World features numerous usability issues that present a barrier to the intended player experience. I want to highlight these with this article, as well as discuss the impact these issues are likely to have and how they may be addressed.

Information Overload
Something that players are likely to notice early on in Monster Hunter World, is that the game seems to have a lot of information that it wants to teach. The first time player experience is front-loaded with instructions for the player to take in.

Every time the player approaches a new non-player character, the game presents an additional set of instructions for the player to parse. Every time the game does this, the player must add new information to their mental model of the game. Because of the frequency with which the game presents this type of information to players, this can become very demanding on the players cognitive load. Just as the player is exposed to one complicated system or mechanic, the game presents another for the player to process.


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This is just one of many tutorial screens in Monster Hunter World. Many of these panels feature multiple pages of information for the player to read​
It simply doesn't give the player the time to consolidate the information it provides, demanding that the player update their mental model of the game before they've even fully understood how the previous piece of information fits in. You're told about the armoury but it's likely that before you've even explored this interface properly, you'll also be informed about the canteen, the research centre, several different types of quest, and multiplayer.

Consequentially, players are likely to feel overwhelmed by the amount of information they're being asked to process. As a result, the player is likely to seek a means out of this uncomfortable scenario, which lead to players skipping tutorial instructions. This alleviates the moment to moment sense of confusion, but likely results in long-term issues with the players understanding of core gameplay systems.

Additionally, much of the information that the game pelts the player with feels as though it exists as a means of compensating the unintuitive interaction design (discussed later). If customising the radial menu wasn't an exhaustive six-step process, then it may not require as extensive instruction to support the players understanding.


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Should players need two paragraphs of instructional text and a tutorial movie to understand the crafting station?​
Suggestions

  • Seek ways to minimise tutorial content in the early game experience. Which information is crucial for the player to understand?
  • Tutorialisation can be replaced with a reliance on intuition, familiarity and feedback. Do players need any explicit tutorialisation for mechanics like the 'tent'? Could clear feedback about what happens when it's used teach the player how this system works?
  • Consider how tutorial content can be paced more evenly throughout the game. At present the tutorial content is very heavy early on, overloading new players. Could some of this content be staggered further into the game?
Reliance on Memory
Related to informational overload, the game also places a very high demand on the players memory. Everything that the game teaches you, you need to remember for later. For instance the opening tutorial to the camp, tells you about the tent, the item box, and other functions you can use. However, it's very possible that the player won't want to use these at that moment in time, and instead just run wilderness to track their monster.

The game expects the player to simply remember all of this information, so that they can review it later. However, the reality is that we simply don't work that way — human beings are not machines, we can't infinitely stack information and expect it to be easily recalled later.


1*2OIcvLAOzLya6Q6T_kcCGg.png

Monster Hunter chooses to provide new players with a list of 5 mechanics that they should remember for later, this informational panel is four pages long​
In these instances, the player is likely to be unable to recall the information when they need it. For instance, a player might forget that they can use the item box to access more resources for a mission; this consequentially makes the mission much harder than it would otherwise be. The player is no longer experiencing the intended difficulty of Monster Hunter World.

Suggestions

  • Where possible, Monster Hunter World should provide its tutorial information at the exact moment in time when the player needs it. The game shouldn't expect players to remember information about your gameplay systems for later, as they will most likely forget.
  • As with reducing informational overload, the designers should consider means in which a reliance on explicit tutorialisation can be reduced by instead leveraging familiarity and feedback as teaching tools.
Unclear Terminologies
Monster Hunter World players are quickly introduced to a myriad of different terms pertaining to its various mechanics. Players that want to find the mechanic they're looking for need to understand the difference between terms like an investigation, and an assigned quest, or difference between the botanical researcher, and the ecological researcher.

It's easy to get confused by these terms as they closely interlink. The difference between the Smithy, and Amourer, requires that players understand that the Smithy crafts weapons and armour, and the Armourer sells weapons and armour. Assigned Quests and Investigation requires players understand that Assigned Quests advance the main story, and Investigations are side-content. Another game would label these main quests and side quests — a familiar term that players are likely to have a pre-existing understanding of — but Monster Hunter World chooses not to.


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The player needs to juggle the difference between assigned quests, optional quests, investigations, and events.​
The naming conventions simply don't intuitively infer the function of each mechanic, and as a result, the player will need to build an understanding through association. This takes time, and players may find themselves getting confused during the early player experience — going to the wrong location, speaking to the wrong character, using the wrong system. This is likely to be frustrating, and harmful to the overall player experience.

Suggestions

  • Naming conventions should intend to intuitively suggest the function of the thing you're tying to use. For instance, if you intend to distinguish between the Smithy, and the Armoury, then labelling one as 'Crafting' and another as 'Shop' would logically communicate their function when they both exist in the context of the Blacksmith's building.
  • Label systems in a way that's likely to be more familiar to players.Consider how other popular games label their systems, and what players are likely to have a pre-existing understanding of. For instance, could main story quests, simply be called story quests, or main quests?
  • Could playtesting be used in order to determine how players might naturally label each system and mechanic? For instance, if a playtest reveals that players always describe 'Investigations' as 'Side quests' then this may be a naming convention that more intuitively aligns with the players mental model.
Unintuitive Interaction Design
Monster Hunter World features a vast array of different systems, and many of these have their own interface. Not only does this mean that there's a greater reliance on the players memory, it's also the case that many of these systems are unintuitive, and difficult for new players to get to grips with.

This affects many core mechanics of the game, from the armory and smithy, to online lobbies and the quest board, but perhaps none are less intuitive than the radial menu. The radial menu's design intention is that it makes inventory management faster, allowing you to use items in the heat of battle, without opening up the full menu; however this is only achievable, if players can figure out how the menu works.

0*1g9QN_0qTlryOXFi.jpg

The multi-step process involved in getting the custom radial menu to work, is likely to confuse players​
In order to successfully operate your own, custom radial menu, players must:

  • Open the item box
  • Create a custom loadout
  • Save and name it
  • Open the radial menu
  • Map items from the custom loadout to the menu
  • Save it
If the player misses out any one of these disjointed steps, the custom radial menu that the player attempted to use, won't be present. Defaulting back to one of the presets. This resulted in an incredibly large number of players assuming that this system simply wasn't functioning correctly.

1*X4u5u8y0KLj7XFp1CDstrw.png

Players flooded forums to ask why the radial menu wouldn't save.​
A significant component of the issue is that the radial menu assumes that all players wanting to use the radial menu, also want to use custom item boxes and mission specific item-box loadouts. One doesn't work without the other, and unless the player understands and uses both systems, they don't work.

There are other examples of this type of issue in Monster Hunter World. Even creating a lobby to play with a friend is a complex, and convoluted process. In order to do so you must:

  • Go online
  • Invite a friend
  • Post a quest
  • Get your friend to accept that quest
  • Initiate the quest
All the while ensuring that your aware of some bizarre circumstances in which a quest won't be playable in co-op. Such as if the host hasn't seen the quest cutscenes before.

As a consequence, it's often a laborious process to get everyone on the same page, and in the same lobby. Something that's simple in other games, becomes a high-workload task in Monster Hunter World. It's easy to see how this might act as a barrier to the design intent — with players experiencing difficulty playing the game with their friends.

Suggestions

  • How could the game scale down the complexity, and increase the intuitiveness of of these systems for new users. For instance, could the radial menu be setup to work with the default item box, without the need to save item loadouts if players didn't want to engage with the system in this much depth.
  • Could a competitor analysis reveal means in which similar games have approached these or similar usability challenges? Sending an invitation to a friend in other cooperative games is as simple as clicking invite, then selecting a friend. Are there logistical reasons this cannot be the case in Monster Hunter World?
Pervasive Barriers to the Design Intent
This only scratches the surface of Monster Hunter World's usability issues — these, and many similar issues present a significant barrier to the experience that the game designers sought for their players.

Players that can't invite their friend because they're struggling to understand the invitation system, are no longer experiencing the design intent. The same is true for a player that keep finding themselves interacting with the armorer, when they want the smithy, or the player that doesn't understand the why their radial menu items keep resetting to the default configuration.

When these issues are isolated, it's easy for players to ignore and compensate. If the player has to learn a counter-intuitive process for inviting a friend to a game, that's something they can work around. However, with Monster Hunter World these issues are much more frequent and pervasive than just one system. While fans have fallen in love with the gameplay and RPG systems, the usability issues surrounding them cause persistent friction, and persistently harms the player experience.

A lens on the player experience

Although I've provided numerous individual suggestions to some of the issues faced players of Monster Hunter World, the ultimate resolution has to stem from Capcom's design philosophy. Monster Hunter World was clearly developed by a team of phenomenal game designers, however; it's unfortunate that it has to be recognised as a great game, in spite of its very evident usability issues.

All of these which, could be remedied with greater focus on the player experience. A combination of diary studies and playtesting could be used to understand the issues that players currently face in Monster Hunter World. Further iterative usability playtesting, heuristic analysis and co-design with user researchers could be employed to ensure that the designs are more player friendly moving forward. Throughout the development lifecycle, these methods could be leveraged to improve the player experience in both Monster Hunter World, and the Monster Hunter series.

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How do you feel about this? The impact of a usability issue tends to vary from player to player, are you happy to step around these problems, or do they meaningfully detract from your experience of the game?
 
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OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,067
California
As a newcomer to the series, I would have to agree with you. It was a bit frustrating at launch and if my buddies, who are huge MH fans, didn't help me through all of that stuff I probably would have dropped it early. I remember them telling me that they simplified a lot of the stuff from previous games. I don't think I would enjoy playing anything before MHW.
 

kaiush

Member
Jan 22, 2018
298
I had never played a MH game before and didn't have anyone to really teach me. I found World to be incredibly obtuse. I tried to sit down and really understand what was going on multiple times but I just couldn't really get it. The combat system the upgrade system. I just never really felt comfortable or like I understood what I was doing so I dropped it.

I couldn't even grasp what like half the UI was trying to tell me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,575
There are other examples of this type of issue in Monster Hunter World. Even creating a lobby to play with a friend is a complex, and convoluted process. In order to do so you must:

  • Go online
  • Invite a friend
  • Post a quest
  • Get your friend to accept that quest
  • Initiate the quest
All the while ensuring that your aware of some bizarre circumstances in which a quest won't be playable in co-op. Such as if the host hasn't seen the quest cutscenes before.

As a consequence, it's often a laborious process to get everyone on the same page, and in the same lobby. Something that's simple in other games, becomes a high-workload task in Monster Hunter World. It's easy to see how this might act as a barrier to the design intent — with players experiencing difficulty playing the game with their friends.
This is literally the reason me and my friend stopped playing. We got the game largely in part due to the game having co-op (as we have for many other games), and wanted to at least get through the game's story together and then maybe continue with post-story stuff together or alone. But after a handful of quests, that was it.

The experience felt like we were doing busy work just to be able to get to the point in a mission where we're actually able to play together and we both lost interest in the game.

Possibly the only purchase this gen that I regret as I really didn't get much playtime out of it as a result.
 

KujoJosuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,740
It's all learnable stuff. It's not that hard if you think about any of it. The armorer and the smithy are right next to each other, if you can't figure out which one does which just by talking to them...that's not really the game's fault.

Most of the world's MH fans started with previous games in the series. I started with Freedom Unite on the PSP, and let me tell you, it doesn't even have 10% of the tutorials that World has, nevermind any sort of new player onboarding. World is much less stressful in almost every way when it comes to actually starting out and figuring things out.

I'm not saying World is perfect at onboarding new players, but there's an actual effort to do so as opposed to pretty much every other game in the series which usually starts with Make A Character->Cutscene->Go to Town->Pick a Weapon->Go on a hunt. And that's it. No explaining what and why the canteen exists for, or how your items work, or how or why you should do anything.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Some of the design decisions weren't ideal for newcomers, but I really appreciated the wealth of options being there for me once I knew what I was doing.

It's possible that MHW is a little too complicated for some players to pick up, and hey, that's OK.
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,352
Colombia
Took me like 20-30 minutes to get a friend to join my mission. If I could have asked a refund of the game, I would have (shouldn't have purchased off from PSN). The game is way too obtuse for its sake. Sure it's simple when you learn it, but when I can play "simpler" games with a couple of steps that barely take a minute, you are doing something wrong.
 

bad_carbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
It does feel like I'm using a computer software, what with all the menus within menus that can be accessed depending on which button you press.

And then there's the food menu that looks like a periodic table. The buffs that it gives depending on the ingredients you pick seems so random that the chef's platter seems like the only good choice
 
OP
OP
Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,465
It's all learnable stuff. It's not that hard if you think about any of it. The armorer and the smithy are right next to each other, if you can't figure out which one does which just by talking to them...that's not really the game's fault.

'Not that hard' isn't a valid a measure of success for a menu system that's designed to be usable.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Also, (and I'm not going for any whataboutism here), MHW was not the most confusing new game that I picked up this year.

Fortnite: Save The World takes that prize. For a game that's about fighting zombies in a cartoon world there are just too many confusing game mechanics. and they throw them at you all at once.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,329
Ibis Island
I rented Mon Hun world and gave it a few hours. I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't for me. However, I do agree that despite a lot of the QoL improvements compared to earlier games here. There's still room for a tad more across the board.

Doing something with the menus especially. There's so many for a bunch of different things.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,328
I agree, and I'm glad I've played MH before so at least some things weren't completely alien to me.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,581
Seattle, WA
Thanks for posting. This hits on a lot of things that frustrated me while trying to sink my teeth into MHW. I can't help but feel like this is exactly the kind of game that should come with a thick instruction manual--which would help new and younger players absorb and simmer on a lot of the required bits and bobs before diving in.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,988
Texas
Very fair points. While it's probably the easiest entry to get into as a new player, it was difficult for a few of my buddies who hadn't played MH before. I had to help them out for all the tangential, non-hunting stuff.

Nice write up!
 

Deleted member 36086

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 13, 2017
897
Some of these complaints arent well thought out. You can't call the armorer "shop" and smithy "crafting" because a shop and crafting already exist and do different things than the armorer and smithy.
 

Overture

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,594
Portugal
It's better than it was in the past, but still not ideal. I don't mind it and got accustomed to it (in past MH games), but everytime a friend picked up MHW and came to play with me (all my friends but one were newcomers to the series), I started explaining some stuff to each one of them and kept thinking to myself that it was pretty fucking crazy how these games can be so hard to get into. It's the series biggest fault and what might keep a lot of first time players that started with World from coming back for future games.
 

Deleted member 41651

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 3, 2018
1,981
This being my first MH, the only problem I faced was futzing around with online play. It didn't take long to get into the loop, tho. I accidentally forged a fuckload of a certain weapon instead of upgrading it at the beginning of the game, and that was the biggest woops moment. I'm okay with having almost 100 hours sunk in and still learning things, others might not like that though.

This game has NOTHING on games like starting Warframe at MR0 or booting up something like Demon's Souls for the first time. Anyway, as a completely noobish newcomer, I found MHW quite welcoming. Although I could see how others might struggle.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I've introduced three people to MHW recently; one quit after about a day and the other quit after the first Great Jagras hunt. I'm hoping they'll come back to it later. I try to help and provide information in a more digestable format than the game does, but the reality is that there's just a shit ton of things you need to know. Monster Hunter is not like any other game. It's like trying to learn a fighting game or racing game for the very first time. There's a steep learning curve as you try to get a handle on basic controls and gameplay concepts and your knowledge from other games won't help you much.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,633
I'd argue this game is more obtuse than past iterations because before you were forced to look up information online that was never given to you at all. The user interface and online matchmaking is also really bad compared to past games.

Edit: At the same time I feel MH is different because the player needs to know all these things right from the beginning in order to succeed. You can't really "unlock" things as the game goes on because everything is necessary to the gameplay right from the first Mission. Can you imagine not being able to combine items, or use the slinger, or craft armor, or use certain weapons, or play online, until reaching a certain rank?
 

Ninjimbo

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,731
I had never played an MH before this one and I got the gist of it in like 20 minutes. I don't see the problems except for some clunky UI stuff and some weird networking crap you have to wade through.

I had a harder time grasping Witcher 3's systems than anything in MHW.
 

Snagret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,754
One of the things that I immediately noticed as I played through the first couple hours was (as the author points out) the way the game introduces different systems before it even has you using them. It seems rushed to get the tutorial out of the way, but there's so much to learn that it's just dumping multi-page tutotorial screens at you rapid-fire.

It's a tough balancing act, on the one hand if they take too much time easing you in then you risk people getting impatient, especially veterans of the series that don't really need to be taught as much. On the other, when they try and rush through it to try and get people "to the good stuff" they end up skimming over a lot of important concepts or expecting the player to cognitively juggle to many new ideas at once.

He's also correct that they need new naming conventions. Sometimes they let flavor get in the way of clear communication, like calling optional quests "investigations" or the distinction between the "smithy" and the "armory" (which doesn't matter a whole lot in practice, as you'll likely very quickly outgrow the need to ever even visit the armory, but still the game introduces them at the same time that it's also telling you about a bunch of other areas in the main hub). Thet miss a lot of opportunities to convey information in a more intuitive way than just an in-game manual that pops-up and interrupts the gameplay.

I still love the game and think it's a great step forward for the series, possibly the least obtuse entry to date. But I hope the devs are listening to this kind of feedback and continue to hone the player experience and overall usability of all the various systems in place. They're getting closer to the mark, that's for sure.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,133
It's definitely the worst part about the game. They made it more user friendly than past games, but the experience of getting up to speed and learning how to even play multiplayer is pretty dumb.

Thankfully it's fantastic once you do.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,331
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
The information overload is partly due to a desire to get players into the action faster. The series has generally gotten more welcoming to newcomers with each iteration, but they've cut down the introductory phase considerably in World. And who can blame the devs, after all one of the most prominent criticisms Monster Hunter received from reviewers was how much time was wasted at the start fighting small monsters and learning how to gather and cook and fish. But there was value in spending that time letting systems and mechanics sink in before moving to the next step in the learning process. In the future the games will either have to condense tutorials to the most valuable information or be more willing to reduce complexity.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,133
The information overload is partly due to a desire to get players into the action faster. The series has generally gotten more welcoming to newcomers with each iteration, but they've cut down the introductory phase considerably in World. And who can blame the devs, after all one of the most prominent criticisms Monster Hunter received from reviewers was how much time was wasted at the start fighting small monsters and learning how to gather and cook and fish. But there was value in spending that time letting systems and mechanics sink in before moving to the next step in the learning process. In the future the games will either have to condense tutorials to the most valuable information or be more willing to reduce complexity.
I think they should jsut go all the way and have two different entry points "Is this your first monster hunter game y/n" and skip a bunch of the onboarding if no. There's risk that players do that anyway, (I've watched enough twitch streamers skip tutorials in EVERY game on the planet to know that people do this), but it would certainly help I think since they could flesh tutorial stuff out more, without boring returning players.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,633
Is this... serious? I can't reconcile the idea that a game is more obtuse by withholding more information.

I mean if you give the player less information up front, and leave it to them to figure it out on their own, then you're technically easing the information overload you throw on a new player. It's not the best way to accomplish that goal, but it does ease information overload on new players.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Yeah, there's too much going on with very little meaningful change based on my 30 hrs with it. I liked it at first, but my enjoyment plummeted after 15hrs, so much to keep track of, useless story that almost auto plays in parts (talking about the dinosaur that you face for the 2nd time).

I think the game isn't good, uninstalled it, will never come back to the series, as the fans seem to love the areas i cant stand.

Also, if I need to invest all my time to learn its quirks it's not a game for me, barely get 2hrs to play a week.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,133
Yeah, there's too much going on with very little meaningful change based on my 30 hrs with it. I liked it at first, but my enjoyment plummeted after 15hrs, so much to keep track of, useless story that almost auto plays in parts (talking about the dinosaur that you face for the 2nd time).

I think the game isn't good, uninstalled it, will never come back to the series, as the fans seem to love the areas i cant stand.

Also, if I need to invest all my time to learn its quirks it's not a game for me, barely get 2hrs to play a week.
The story part isn't something anyone likes, and you were done with it where you're at.
 

Acquiesc3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,724
Really great read and I encountered and agree with most of these points.

I will say as a newcomer to the series.. regarding the very basics, the game still does an adequate job. I had no problem accepting quests, tracking, dodging and hitting, forging new gear, and just advancing through the early story in general. Sure, none of the things I was doing was optimal and I only really used the radial menu to switch to potions and whetstone.. but I haven't struggled, had to look something up or been frustrated yet. Calling for help even makes things even easier.

I know this might sound crazy to some veterans, but as a newcomer wanting to try and solo some of these hunts.. I would have appreciated an enemy health bar. I don't have a crazy amount of time to play like I used to and having a general idea how long this monster is gonna take to kill would have been great.
 

Oreoleo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,946
Ohio
Hard to disagree. Thank god some of my friends are MH vets so I could bounce my numerous questions off of them.
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,656
It's got a steep learning curve and a lot of complicated mechanics. I'm not sure that's such a bad thing though. I don't think every game needs to be intuitive from the start. I had never played a Monster Hunter before but I enjoyed the learning process. It certainly isn't perfect but I don't think there is inherently something wrong with needing to spend some time with a game before you understand how everything works. Especially when there's SO much to wrap your head around. A giant info dump or lengthy tutorial at the start of the game would have been awful in my opinion. There's only so much a developer can do when their game requires so much to learn.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Probably my biggest complaint is how big Astera is and how spread out everything is, and this is a common complaint. In older games the towns were just a cluster of little stalls where you'd buy things, upgrade armor, and then get back into the action. In MHW, the devs were "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" and decided to take advantage of the next-gen hardware to create a nice big town with all sorts of dynamic things going on, none of which are relevant to the gameplay experience and just serve to waste time. Here's an abridged list of complaints about Astera:
  • What is the point of the Resource Center? Bounties, investigations, and deliveries have nothing to do with each other. Bounties and deliveries should be accessible through a menu that can be accessed at any time in Astera. Investigations should be freely available from the quest board. There is no reason to make me walk to a separate location to select investigations or claim my bounty rewards
  • Get rid of Ecological Research. There is absolutely no reason why, after investigating a monster to a new research level, I should need to physically walk over and speak to an NPC before the research level updates. All of the information at Ecological Research is redundant and should be included in your monster field guide
  • You frequently need to walk around and speak to specific NPCs to trigger optional quest lines. This was the case in older games too, but the towns were so small that everyone was close together
  • There are multiple stalls and wide open spaces on the first level of Astera that are literally just set dressing and only make the area larger. Get rid of them
  • The armory and canteen, two of the places you'll be visiting the most, are on the second and third levels, requiring you to run all the way to back of level 1 and ride the lift to reach them. If having them on higher levels is absolutely necessary, why isn't there a lift closer to your spawn point on level 1?
  • The canteen area is unnecessarily large. The canteen could have just been placed on level 1
  • There is even more large, unused space on levels 2 and 3 that serve no purpose
  • Again, just to hammer this point home, at least 65% of the available space in Astera is unused. It's just empty space
  • The "your room" area is a series tradition, but in this game there's basically no reason for it to exist other than placing your animals. Why are the training area and Tailraider Safari locked in your room behind a separate loading screen? From a game design perspective these two things have nothing to do with each other or with your private residence. It's like they couldn't think of where else to put them, so they just threw them in your room
  • The gathering hall is on level 4 and requires you to sit through a separate loading screen. The gathering hall has some features from levels 1-3 (quest board, canteen, item box), but not all of them. If you want to craft armor or visit the Resource Center, you need to leave and sit through the loading screens again. This was the case in older games too, but those games had a much smaller hub world with much shorter load times
Astera is just a fucking disaster of basic hub world game design. Burn it to the ground in World Ultimate and start over.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,331
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
I think they should jsut go all the way and have two different entry points "Is this your first monster hunter game y/n" and skip a bunch of the onboarding if no. There's risk that players do that anyway, (I've watched enough twitch streamers skip tutorials in EVERY game on the planet to know that people do this), but it would certainly help I think since they could flesh tutorial stuff out more, without boring returning players.

The problem is the complaints about how slow MH was to start came from new players. Not from veterans. Those were used to MH's pace, and if you expect to spend 200-300 hours with a game, you're not bothered by spending 2 or 3 in tutorial missions.

I think the clever approach is one that MH has tried here and there and that's disguising the beginner quests better. Instead of asking players to hunt smallfry, which they feel is benath them and bored, you unleash a big memorable threat on them. Of course, that screws you over as designer when you later have to ramp up into bigger and bigger stuff, so you make it so the player is only barely able to fend off the big monster. Then you have an excuse to send the player on a couple of training missions to get ready to face the threat again and fight it off for good this time, and with the carrot of a return fight dangling in front of their nose hopefully players won't mind having to gather ressources or hunt smaller critters in preperation. This buys time to introduce important systems step by step.

The added complication here is story. The more dialogue you add to dress up a basic tutorial as something more exciting than it is, the more text you have distracting from the information the player is meant to remember first and foremost. Where does this monster come from? Why is it so angry? What does the Guild do? Who are these people? Wait ... how do I sharpen my weapon again and how does it matter??
 

Overture

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,594
Portugal
Probably my biggest complaint is how big Astera is and how spread out everything is, and this is a common complaint. In older games the towns were just a cluster of little stalls where you'd buy things, upgrade armor, and then get back into the action. In MHW, the devs were "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" and decided to take advantage of the next-gen hardware to create a nice big town with all sorts of dynamic things going on, none of which are relevant to the gameplay experience and just serve to waste time. Here's an abridged list of complaints about Astera:
  • What is the point of the Resource Center? Bounties, investigations, and deliveries have nothing to do with each other. Bounties and deliveries should be accessible through a menu that can be accessed at any time in Astera. Investigations should be freely available from the quest board. There is no reason to make me walk to a separate location to select investigations or claim my bounty rewards
  • Get rid of Ecological Research. There is absolutely no reason why, after investigating a monster to a new research level, I should need to physically walk over and speak to an NPC before the research level updates. All of the information at Ecological Research is redundant and should be included in your monster field guide
  • You frequently need to walk around and speak to specific NPCs to trigger optional quest lines. This was the case in older games too, but the towns were so small that everyone was close together
  • There are multiple stalls and wide open spaces on the first level of Astera that are literally just set dressing and only make the area larger. Get rid of them
  • The armory and canteen, two of the places you'll be visiting the most, are on the second and third levels, requiring you to run all the way to back of level 1 and ride the lift to reach them. If having them on higher levels is absolutely necessary, why isn't there a lift closer to your spawn point on level 1?
  • The canteen area is unnecessarily large. The canteen could have just been placed on level 1
  • There is even more large, unused space on levels 2 and 3 that serve no purpose
  • Again, just to hammer this point home, at least 65% of the available space in Astera is unused. It's just empty space
  • The "your room" area is a series tradition, but in this game there's basically no reason for it to exist other than placing your animals. Why are the training area and Tailraider Safari locked in your room behind a separate loading screen? From a game design perspective these two things have nothing to do with each other or with your private residence. It's like they couldn't think of where else to put them, so they just threw them in your room
  • The gathering hall is on level 4 and requires you to sit through a separate loading screen. The gathering hall has some features from levels 1-3 (quest board, canteen, item box), but not all of them. If you want to craft armor or visit the Resource Center, you need to leave and sit through the loading screens again. This was the case in older games too, but those games had a much smaller hub world with much shorter load times
Astera is just a fucking disaster of basic hub world game design. Burn it to the ground in World Ultimate and start over.
Yea, Astera is garbage. Cool to look at, but that's it.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,848
I've played a few hours of this, and have exactly no idea what the hell I'm doing! Haha. I'm sure I'll figure it all out eventually, but it's pretty imposing.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,275
My bro and I spent a fucking hour trying to figure out how to play co-op on PC. I'm not gonna get into the lazy dev argument, but incompetence just had to be a factor. I mean, in 2018, who implements co-op like this? A cut scene prevents co-op? Fuck outta here.
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,397
California
Probably my biggest complaint is how big Astera is and how spread out everything is, and this is a common complaint. In older games the towns were just a cluster of little stalls where you'd buy things, upgrade armor, and then get back into the action. In MHW, the devs were "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" and decided to take advantage of the next-gen hardware to create a nice big town with all sorts of dynamic things going on, none of which are relevant to the gameplay experience and just serve to waste time. Here's an abridged list of complaints about Astera:
  • What is the point of the Resource Center? Bounties, investigations, and deliveries have nothing to do with each other. Bounties and deliveries should be accessible through a menu that can be accessed at any time in Astera. Investigations should be freely available from the quest board. There is no reason to make me walk to a separate location to select investigations or claim my bounty rewards
  • Get rid of Ecological Research. There is absolutely no reason why, after investigating a monster to a new research level, I should need to physically walk over and speak to an NPC before the research level updates. All of the information at Ecological Research is redundant and should be included in your monster field guide
  • You frequently need to walk around and speak to specific NPCs to trigger optional quest lines. This was the case in older games too, but the towns were so small that everyone was close together
  • There are multiple stalls and wide open spaces on the first level of Astera that are literally just set dressing and only make the area larger. Get rid of them
  • The armory and canteen, two of the places you'll be visiting the most, are on the second and third levels, requiring you to run all the way to back of level 1 and ride the lift to reach them. If having them on higher levels is absolutely necessary, why isn't there a lift closer to your spawn point on level 1?
  • The canteen area is unnecessarily large. The canteen could have just been placed on level 1
  • There is even more large, unused space on levels 2 and 3 that serve no purpose
  • Again, just to hammer this point home, at least 65% of the available space in Astera is unused. It's just empty space
  • The "your room" area is a series tradition, but in this game there's basically no reason for it to exist other than placing your animals. Why are the training area and Tailraider Safari locked in your room behind a separate loading screen? From a game design perspective these two things have nothing to do with each other or with your private residence. It's like they couldn't think of where else to put them, so they just threw them in your room
  • The gathering hall is on level 4 and requires you to sit through a separate loading screen. The gathering hall has some features from levels 1-3 (quest board, canteen, item box), but not all of them. If you want to craft armor or visit the Resource Center, you need to leave and sit through the loading screens again. This was the case in older games too, but those games had a much smaller hub world with much shorter load times
Astera is just a fucking disaster of basic hub world game design. Burn it to the ground in World Ultimate and start over.

...and then the worst part. The music sucks.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Monster Hunter's always had this issue. My coping mechanism is to ignore something until a guide tells me that I need it, and then I learn it. If you know the basics of Monster combat, everything else will come in its own time. Feeling like you need to know all of it immediately is the issue here.

I tend to be that way with all kinds of large RPGs like Pokemon or the Xeno games. There are mechanics and modes that I'll never explore because it doesn't interest me compared to the parts of the game that do, and i'll only dabble in them if something for the parts I like needs something from the parts I care less about.

A good example in Monster Hunter Tri, I ignored the arena quests except that one novelty lance (which was basically just a shark that you swung around) needed tickets from a Royal Ludroth quest. So I learned just enough to do the Ludroth arena quest, get what I needed, and move on.
 

Enforcer

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,960
As a noob back then I got into Monster hunter because of the learning curve and how heavy in mechanics it is.

I know it's a turn off for many people but I enjoy spending countless hours figuring out how game systems work with as little guidance as possible.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I hear you on all points. But given the uniqueness and the accomplishment of the game, I would have to say critiquing the menus and UI is nitpicking. Uninteresting.

This is my first Monster Hunter game. The excellence of the design... The game design; not the menus... left my head spinning. Doubly fascinating is that this game design is ancient and has been right under the noses of first-timers like myself.

I would read 10 articles about what makes this game tick or how this design could be really improved upon. Or perhaps how such a complex and obtuse game broke out into a whole new audience with this version. But a critique aiming at the menus and such and how they could be more comfortable for new players is not exactly digging deep.
 
Probably my biggest complaint is how big Astera is and how spread out everything is, and this is a common complaint. In older games the towns were just a cluster of little stalls where you'd buy things, upgrade armor, and then get back into the action. In MHW, the devs were "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" and decided to take advantage of the next-gen hardware to create a nice big town with all sorts of dynamic things going on, none of which are relevant to the gameplay experience and just serve to waste time. Here's an abridged list of complaints about Astera:
  • What is the point of the Resource Center? Bounties, investigations, and deliveries have nothing to do with each other. Bounties and deliveries should be accessible through a menu that can be accessed at any time in Astera. Investigations should be freely available from the quest board. There is no reason to make me walk to a separate location to select investigations or claim my bounty rewards
  • Get rid of Ecological Research. There is absolutely no reason why, after investigating a monster to a new research level, I should need to physically walk over and speak to an NPC before the research level updates. All of the information at Ecological Research is redundant and should be included in your monster field guide
  • You frequently need to walk around and speak to specific NPCs to trigger optional quest lines. This was the case in older games too, but the towns were so small that everyone was close together
  • There are multiple stalls and wide open spaces on the first level of Astera that are literally just set dressing and only make the area larger. Get rid of them
  • The armory and canteen, two of the places you'll be visiting the most, are on the second and third levels, requiring you to run all the way to back of level 1 and ride the lift to reach them. If having them on higher levels is absolutely necessary, why isn't there a lift closer to your spawn point on level 1?
  • The canteen area is unnecessarily large. The canteen could have just been placed on level 1
  • There is even more large, unused space on levels 2 and 3 that serve no purpose
  • Again, just to hammer this point home, at least 65% of the available space in Astera is unused. It's just empty space
  • The "your room" area is a series tradition, but in this game there's basically no reason for it to exist other than placing your animals. Why are the training area and Tailraider Safari locked in your room behind a separate loading screen? From a game design perspective these two things have nothing to do with each other or with your private residence. It's like they couldn't think of where else to put them, so they just threw them in your room
  • The gathering hall is on level 4 and requires you to sit through a separate loading screen. The gathering hall has some features from levels 1-3 (quest board, canteen, item box), but not all of them. If you want to craft armor or visit the Resource Center, you need to leave and sit through the loading screens again. This was the case in older games too, but those games had a much smaller hub world with much shorter load times
Astera is just a fucking disaster of basic hub world game design. Burn it to the ground in World Ultimate and start over.
All of this is 100% true. You have no idea how relieving it was to dig into MHGU and not have to worry wondering where the hell everything is, since it's all right where it's supposed to be.
 

ThisOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,937
Nice post, OP. I feel the same. Had a very hard time getting into Monster Hunter World. It was my first MH game and just felt completely overwhelming. Didn't bother with it for more than a few hours before nothing into something more easily digested.
 
OP
OP
Alek

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,465
Probably my biggest complaint is how big Astera is and how spread out everything is, and this is a common complaint. In older games the towns were just a cluster of little stalls where you'd buy things, upgrade armor, and then get back into the action. In MHW, the devs were "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" and decided to take advantage of the next-gen hardware to create a nice big town with all sorts of dynamic things going on, none of which are relevant to the gameplay experience and just serve to waste time. Here's an abridged list of complaints about Astera:
  • What is the point of the Resource Center? Bounties, investigations, and deliveries have nothing to do with each other. Bounties and deliveries should be accessible through a menu that can be accessed at any time in Astera. Investigations should be freely available from the quest board. There is no reason to make me walk to a separate location to select investigations or claim my bounty rewards
  • Get rid of Ecological Research. There is absolutely no reason why, after investigating a monster to a new research level, I should need to physically walk over and speak to an NPC before the research level updates. All of the information at Ecological Research is redundant and should be included in your monster field guide
  • You frequently need to walk around and speak to specific NPCs to trigger optional quest lines. This was the case in older games too, but the towns were so small that everyone was close together
  • There are multiple stalls and wide open spaces on the first level of Astera that are literally just set dressing and only make the area larger. Get rid of them
  • The armory and canteen, two of the places you'll be visiting the most, are on the second and third levels, requiring you to run all the way to back of level 1 and ride the lift to reach them. If having them on higher levels is absolutely necessary, why isn't there a lift closer to your spawn point on level 1?
  • The canteen area is unnecessarily large. The canteen could have just been placed on level 1
  • There is even more large, unused space on levels 2 and 3 that serve no purpose
  • Again, just to hammer this point home, at least 65% of the available space in Astera is unused. It's just empty space
  • The "your room" area is a series tradition, but in this game there's basically no reason for it to exist other than placing your animals. Why are the training area and Tailraider Safari locked in your room behind a separate loading screen? From a game design perspective these two things have nothing to do with each other or with your private residence. It's like they couldn't think of where else to put them, so they just threw them in your room
  • The gathering hall is on level 4 and requires you to sit through a separate loading screen. The gathering hall has some features from levels 1-3 (quest board, canteen, item box), but not all of them. If you want to craft armor or visit the Resource Center, you need to leave and sit through the loading screens again. This was the case in older games too, but those games had a much smaller hub world with much shorter load times
Astera is just a fucking disaster of basic hub world game design. Burn it to the ground in World Ultimate and start over.

Yeah, I agree with the layout of the hub as well. It's a pain, didn't touch on that in the article because I figured it was pretty complicated to explain. There's something to be written about information architecture in 3D environments there though.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Interesting OP! I bought this game thinking it would be right up my ally. I still think it is...but I haven't been able to force myself beyond the boring start. I love all the Soulsbourne games. I don't mind a grind or a challenge. The start of this game does little to hook a newcomer. At some point I'm going to take a day and force myself through about 5 hours to finally "get it".
 

RefreshZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
473
I agree the learning curve is hella steep. You get absolutely DELUGED with information as a newb.

I really really wanted to like this game but I kept getting my ass handed to me and I had no real idea how to improve. I'll get back to it someday.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,050
I would probably have more issues with it but many of my friends were already Monster Hunter vets so the onboarding experience was much smoother for me.
 

Fairy Godmother

Backward compatible
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
3,288
Unfortunately we do not allow members to post external articles they have written themselves. If you own the content you may repost it as a standalone thread without links.
 
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