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Oct 25, 2017
3,771
"Real" gaming journalists are practiced in looking past swag when writing reviews and impressions. Not just through experience, but through the support of their peers, editors, etc. Their organization should keep the impact of this kind of stuff to a minimum.

"Influencers" on the other hand don't have that sort of support. They would be far more likely to have their impressions tainted - it would be a case by case situation.
 

DieH@rd

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
The Last Guardian presskit was great because it had personally signed message from Ueda. When I heard there's a small chance I would get it, [in the end I did not], I immediately replayed this clip https://youtu.be/K02O02NqndE?t=29 "I will possess the DNA of Famito Ueda?" :D :D :D
 

Hazz3r

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,128
Lot's of people criticising the Press Kit on principle of how lavish it is.

Remember that Hollie Bennett works for Playstation Access, who literally work for Playstation and don't review games.

She's probably at the launch event for the channel, this is likely not the kit that is sent out to reviewers.
 

Deleted member 41931

User requested account closure
Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,744
These really shouldn't be a thing still. To those that think these don't influence people at all, let me ask you this. Why do they send these out then? Do you believe Sony just loves spending money on these elaborate kits despite apparently having no benefit to them?

Not to mention several people in the industry have called these out and admitted they influence themselves and others.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
So is everyone just going to gloss over this post?



This isn't a "press kit", as in, it's not going out to members of the press for reviews, etc. It's for an event in NYC.

Also: Even if it were for press, you guys aren't really being fair in your hyper critical "black and white" assessment. Read my above post. You can't want everything and give nothing. The hypocrisy is insane to me, and the lengths to which you'll go to demonize passionate people in the enthusiast press for doing something you would probably enjoy doing, but want to hold them to a higher moral standard than you would hold yourself to. This isn't ruining the industry, and no one is giving 9/10 review scores to 4/10 games. Relax.
In that hypothetical case, why wouldn't they just send the plain game to reviewers in order to minimize bias?
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
If you're going to change your view of a game based on a $15 backpack filled with some postcards maybe you shouldn't be reviewing games in the first place.

Yeah but that doesn't make it any less ethically questionable.

Also that's kinda my point in the first place. If these had no effect at all then they wouldn't bother.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
As plenty of folks have pointed out, any self-respecting member of the media would refuse or return all of this swag.

This.

Anyone pretending that they aren't doing this to incentivise a better reception for the game is delusional. Even if it's inexplicit, this press kit, and the extremely positive treatment of the press frames the game and the experience in a way that's unrepresentative of the consumer experience. It intentionally biases review outcomes.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
If you're going to change your view of a game based on a $15 backpack filled with some postcards maybe you shouldn't be reviewing games in the first place.

1) In many instances, biases aren't conscious. It doesn't take a perceptive man to tell you that humans will naturally respond more positively to people that have behaved altruistically to them before.

2) The backpack isn't worth $15. These press kits go for hundreds on ebay, they become collectors items with incredible value. At present, people are selling the God of War press kit for more than $300. That's not insignificant.
 

ManaByte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
Southern California
1) In many instances, biases aren't conscious. It doesn't take a perceptive man to tell you that humans will naturally respond more positively to people that have behaved altruistically to them before.

2) The backpack isn't worth $15. These press kits go for hundreds on ebay, they become collectors items with incredible value. At present, people are selling the God of War press kit for more than $300. That's not insignificant.

Maybe the companies should go on eBay and blacklist those selling the press kits? That would put a stop to that real quick.

It's just marketing trash. Stuff that takes up space until you throw it away.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
In that hypothetical case, why wouldn't they just send the plain game to reviewers in order to minimize bias?

...except that's exactly what happens the majority of the time? And this isn't members of the press? And I don't think there are many people who are going to sway their review or show extreme bias because of a backpack and a keychain?

Like, I can understand the concern...but this just isn't worthy of concern. If the backpack was packed with money, I'd totally be on your side...but this is essentially throw away garbage (I want it) and isn't going to sway the tides of anything at all, and very few of these kind of "press kits" (this isn't really a press kit so much as a bunch of swag) end up swaying the review scores or impressions from press outlets.

I mean, do we even have a baseline to go off of here? Are there swarms of absolutely awful games out there getting great review scores because of swag the journalist got? Or is it all just concern trolling?
 

DrBo42

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,760
Okay...and that's a problem? A signal boost? Do you also get up in arms when an athlete tweets out some new Nike kicks that he definitely got for free or likely got paid for? Or when someone mentions their sponsorship on their podcast?

It's just such an absurd and unrealistic position to take. Especially when you've got people saying that "anyone who accepts these has no respect for themselves". The hypocrisy is drowning. Anyone in this thread would GLADLY accept that bag of swag if they showed up to an event and were handed one, and they'd share it on social media and be very excited.
You're really going to compare this to sponsorships? I don't want these kits anywhere near this industry whether it be press or "influencers" period. If you want to give out cool physical items, give it to the people waiting in line to play the game at events. If you want to try and get more coverage from a twitch or YT personality, be upfront and pay them so they're forced to disclose. That's where I stand on it.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
Maybe the companies should go on eBay and blacklist those selling the press kits? That would put a stop to that real quick.

It's just marketing trash. Stuff that takes up space until you throw it away.

Why would they do that? They want the press to see value in the items they send.

Also, unique collectibles from the game world aren't 'trash' in the eyes of many. I have one press kit at home, and it's for Alien Isolation, it includes a really neat USB memory stick, based on one of the toys on the table in the intro scene of the game. These collectibles are actually, quite remarkable in my opinion, because unlike the generic 'collectibles' that you get in the collectors editions of games, there aren't 2 million of them going round. They are genuine collectors items.

In general, I quite like things like that. Like, I have a CD Project Red snapback someplace too, which you can only get if you work at CD Project Red, or one of their members of staff gives it to you. Things like that hold undeniable value that's distinct from the consumer versions.

Just to add, for what it's worth, that collectors edition for Alien Isolation was sent for one of my early reviews. I didn't even think about it at the time, I was just happy to be receiving press copies for my publication. Where possible I tried to avoid receiving anything like that, but sometimes they just send them out, then what are you supposed to do. Go through the hassle of sending a huge box back to some studio in the US? For a small publication, it's just not worthwhile.
 

ManaByte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
Southern California
Why would they do that? They want the press to see value in the items they send.

Also, unique collectibles from the game world aren't 'trash' in the eyes of many. I have one press kit at home, and it's for Alien Isolation, it includes a really neat USB memory stick, based on one of the toys on the table in the intro scene of the game. These collectibles are actually, quite remarkable in my opinion, because unlike the generic 'collectibles' that you get in the collectors editions of games, there aren't 2 million of them going round. They are genuine collectors items.

In general, I quite like things like that. Like, I have a CD Project Red snapback someplace too, which you can only get if you work at CD Project Red, or one of their members of staff gives it to you. Things like that hold undeniable value that's distinct from the consumer versions.

I don't know. I had a PS2 launch messenger bag I used for a while until I lost it somewhere. Don't really care about that. I still have a Return to Castle Wolfenstein ammo sack, and I just use that to keep dirty laundry separate when I go on trips. And I still have some SOE stuff collecting dust somewhere. It's just marketing crap.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
You're really going to compare this to sponsorships? I don't want these kits anywhere near this industry whether it be press or "influencers" period. If you want to give out cool physical items, give it to the people waiting in line to play the game at events. If you want to try and get more coverage from a twitch or YT personality, be upfront and pay them so they're forced to disclose. That's where I stand on it.

Right, so you think the maybe dozen or so people who received these kits are going to dramatically alter the fate of this game and jeopardize the integrity of everything in the industry. Got it.

And yes, I'm absolutely going to compare it to sponsorships. Athletes don't come out and say "Hey, I'm getting paid to wear this Nike shirt and drink from this gatorade bottle, I just want you guys to know that."

They just show up and do it. They don't have to "disclose" how much they're receiving.

So why on earth does the underpaid enthusiast press have to be held to such a high standard for something so inconsequential? It's absurd.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
Right, so you think the maybe dozen or so people who received these kits are going to dramatically alter the fate of this game and jeopardize the integrity of everything in the industry. Got it.

Nobody said that.

Marketing operates mostly at the subconscious level. That's why it exists in the first place. Nobody goes all Homer Simpson and immediately buys everything they see on billboards. It's all about planting a favourable view of the product in one's head.
 

L.O.R.D

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,686
Dlqr2c0X0AAiuBS.jpg



seems to be leaked somewhere, also what with the RP rating?
also, %20 discount code?
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
Nobody said that.

Marketing operates mostly at the subconscious level. That's why it exists in the first place. Nobody goes all Homer Simpson and immediately buys everything they see on billboards. It's all about planting a favourable view of the product in one's head.

It doesn't need to be said to be insinuated.

I maintain: The hostility towards members of the press / influencers / publishers for this is absolutely silly. If you TRULY feel that passionately about your opinions being "untainted" there are literally thousands of passionate gamers working absolutely free on YouTube and throughout the internet.

Unless anyone can point me a clear example of people receiving lavish gifts that dramatically altered the end scores for an otherwise undeserving game, I'm going to be inclined to say this is just a case of gamers being both envious and entitled, once again.

This isn't the dramatic conflict of interest so many people are presenting it to be. I have other thoughts on this line of thought and how god damn dangerous and awful it is, but frankly I don't want to be banned again for it.
 

KNECHT

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
299
Damn, I hate all this "influencer and instagram" era.
I'm getting older and I guess I'm out of touch, but I find all this shit annoying af
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,530
It doesn't need to be said to be insinuated.

I maintain: The hostility towards members of the press / influencers / publishers for this is absolutely silly. If you TRULY feel that passionately about your opinions being "untainted" there are literally thousands of passionate gamers working absolutely free on YouTube and throughout the internet.

Unless anyone can point me a clear example of people receiving lavish gifts that dramatically altered the end scores for an otherwise undeserving game, I'm going to be inclined to say this is just a case of gamers being both envious and entitled, once again.

Who is being hostile? Most have said to being just uneasy to the prospect. Or reviewers with more integrity would not accept a gift from a company whose products they reviewed.

Also how are people suppose to actually get that evidence?
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
I don't know. I had a PS2 launch messenger bag I used for a while until I lost it somewhere. Don't really care about that. I still have a Return to Castle Wolfenstein ammo sack, and I just use that to keep dirty laundry separate when I go on trips. And I still have some SOE stuff collecting dust somewhere. It's just marketing crap.

It's your choice to see it that way, if it holds value with others, then it obviously isn't just crap.

Also, those items don't sound especially unique or valuable, no offence intended, but a launch messenger bag is a little different to an item that might have only been printed 500 times.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,220
We all know the difference between a review score of 6 and 9.5 is a backpack and tie-in comic
 

Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
I really wish I understood why companies don't sell these. There'd certainly be a market for it. These are always SOOO much better than the Collector's Editions which are usually just a cheap plastic figurine.

It kind of just feels gross to me that they put together these massive press kits for the people who will be reviewing their games. It's really no different than when companies would fly them out and "wine and dine them".
 

Brandon

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,977
What is with people today? People are mad at Spider-Man for having a season pass which is incredibly common and now mad for having a press kit which is also quite common?
 

DrBo42

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,760
Right, so you think the maybe dozen or so people who received these kits are going to dramatically alter the fate of this game and jeopardize the integrity of everything in the industry. Got it.

And yes, I'm absolutely going to compare it to sponsorships. Athletes don't come out and say "Hey, I'm getting paid to wear this Nike shirt and drink from this gatorade bottle, I just want you guys to know that."

They just show up and do it. They don't have to "disclose" how much they're receiving.

So why on earth does the underpaid enthusiast press have to be held to such a high standard for something so inconsequential? It's absurd.
You don't need to be nasty about it. Personally I appreciate that influencers have been required more recently to be transparent with a sponsored stream or advertisements. Giving these physical goods to them feels like skirting the requirements to encourage them to cover your product. It's worse when they're given to press. You don't have to feel the way I do about it, that's okay. My opinion on the matter is no more absurd than someone with a Spider-Man avatar defending it because it happens to be a kit for the game they're excited about.