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Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,820
I've been playing some Hollow Knight and I think I've come to a realization. I like games that thrive in being challenging but not games that thrive in being punishing. This game is punishing and the lack of QoL options, clearly on purpose, is making the game a bit of a chore to play. I compare it to Celeste which can be brutally challenging but keeps the game from being punishing with lots of QoL features. Having to backtrack, with minimal checkpoints, is just no fun.
 
OP
OP
tolkir

tolkir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,252
Game of the Day

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Futuristic twin-stick shooter RPG. May include explosions.

NeuroVoider* is a twin-stick shooter RPG set in a cyber futuristic world about brains shooting around evil robots with nuclear rocket launchers. Battle through the horde of vigilant robots, boost your character with the smoking remains of your victims, and defeat the master NeuroVoider to end this eternal war. Play it coop with up to 4 friends, or go alone in an adventure of hack'n'slash rampage, with a pinch of rogue-lite, and some permadeath.

* may contain explosions.

Features
  • Action packed top-down shooting. May include explosions.
  • Local multiplayer up to 4 players. Total coop rampage.
  • Procedurally generated content and hazards. Hope you don't mind a few game overs.
  • 8736 unique enemies to blow up. Yes, we counted.
  • Tons of loot to customize your character with. Explode your foes with that "double twin-plasma shotgun of father doom" you've just dropped.
  • Gigantic bosses to challenge your bullet dodging skills.
  • Powerful dark synth music by Dan Terminus. May your ears survive the beat.

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$13.99/€13.99/£12.99 - NA web - EU web - Trailer

Last 6 GOTD
08/26 - Dandara
08/25 - forma.8
08/24 - Slime-san
08/23 - The Final Station
08/22 - The Flame in the Flood: Complete Edition
08/21 - Metal Slug X
 

Herb Alpert

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,033
Paris, France
I've been playing some Hollow Knight and I think I've come to a realization. I like games that thrive in being challenging but not games that thrive in being punishing. This game is punishing and the lack of QoL options, clearly on purpose, is making the game a bit of a chore to play. I compare it to Celeste which can be brutally challenging but keeps the game from being punishing with lots of QoL features. Having to backtrack, with minimal checkpoints, is just no fun.

I was frustrated by that too, but after a bit of exploration it appears there are far more save points than I thought, and they are often conveniently placed near the bosses.
I just go make a deposit at the bank in order to never be carrying a big amount of money, so sometimes I don't even try to regain what I lost.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,002
I've been playing some Hollow Knight and I think I've come to a realization. I like games that thrive in being challenging but not games that thrive in being punishing. This game is punishing and the lack of QoL options, clearly on purpose, is making the game a bit of a chore to play. I compare it to Celeste which can be brutally challenging but keeps the game from being punishing with lots of QoL features. Having to backtrack, with minimal checkpoints, is just no fun.

I can certainly understand the frustration. I spent about 40 hours with the game, all-told, and there were times I went from loving it one day to suddenly hating it and not playing it for a week. There are certainly some questionable design decisions that were made. Though the art and sound direction are both top-notch.

I think Dark Souls gave rise to a sub-genre where games are made difficult just for its own sake. And after playing the entire run of Soulsborne games as well as some copycats like Nioh, Lords of the Fallen and The Surge, I think I'm well and truly tired of it. Challenge is great, but is it so hard to include lower difficulty settings for the sake of inclusivity?
 

Raspyberry

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,237
I can certainly understand the frustration. I spent about 40 hours with the game, all-told, and there were times I went from loving it one day to suddenly hating it and not playing it for a week. There are certainly some questionable design decisions that were made. Though the art and sound direction are both top-notch.

I think Dark Souls gave rise to a sub-genre where games are made difficult just for its own sake. And after playing the entire run of Soulsborne games as well as some copycats like Nioh, Lords of the Fallen and The Surge, I think I'm well and truly tired of it. Challenge is great, but is it so hard to include lower difficulty settings for the sake of inclusivity?
This argument always comes up from time to time in souls threads and it always comes down to you don't have to play the game. Hollow Knight can be difficult but it's not as challenging of a game as dark souls. If you're frustrated it's always healthy to take a break and revisit the game later. Play something else in the mean time. That's what I do when I feel frustrated while gaming, dumbing down a game can really change mechanics and be against what the designer intended. With a game such as Hollow Knight it's not really worth it as there's not much that's really bullshit in terms of difficulty, just needs time and patience. :-)
 

Youabra

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
892
Spain
So my (awesome) friends got me a Switch, but they didn't get me any games (which i'm ok with).
I haven't had the time to check the games on the Eshop, so i'm open to any game suggestions (except maybe puzzles/horror games).
So far i've bought Hollow Knight but i haven't had the time to start it yet. There's some games that i'm interested (like Golf Story) but aside from that, i don't know what games i should keep an eye on.
 

BourbonJungle

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,129
I haven't had the time to check the games on the Eshop, so i'm open to any game suggestions (except maybe puzzles/horror games).

You should expand your horizons and try the Puzzle/Horror game "Slayaway Camp"!

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There's lots of great classic adventure games (Thimbleweed Park, Journey Down, etc), a great library of classic Neo Geo and other arcade games, your Mario's, Zelda's and whatnot, I rarely get far into JRPG's but am nearing the end of Octopath Traveler, and I've had a lot of fun with Blinding of Isaac and some of the other Rogue's/likes. Also tons of great platformers like DK Tropical Freeze, Steamworld Dig 2, The End is Nigh, Celeste...
 

panama chief

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,055
So my (awesome) friends got me a Switch, but they didn't get me any games (which i'm ok with).
I haven't had the time to check the games on the Eshop, so i'm open to any game suggestions (except maybe puzzles/horror games).
So far i've bought Hollow Knight but i haven't had the time to start it yet. There's some games that i'm interested (like Golf Story) but aside from that, i don't know what games i should keep an eye on.

Are you interested in Golf Story for the gold, story, or graphics?
 

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
So my (awesome) friends got me a Switch, but they didn't get me any games (which i'm ok with).
I haven't had the time to check the games on the Eshop, so i'm open to any game suggestions (except maybe puzzles/horror games).
So far i've bought Hollow Knight but i haven't had the time to start it yet. There's some games that i'm interested (like Golf Story) but aside from that, i don't know what games i should keep an eye on.

Steamworld Dig 2
Graceful Explosion Machine
Dead Cells
Axiom Verge
Golf Story
Stardew Valley
Owlboy
 

Youabra

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
892
Spain
Are you interested in Golf Story for the gold, story, or graphics?
Mainly for the golf part, but watching Game Grumps play it made me curious about the story too, but not too much.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Funny that I forgot about Steamworld Dig 2 considering how much I wanted to see a 3DS release date (which happened. And then I forgot about it. Good job, me).
 

Django.Mango

Member
Jan 31, 2018
802
So after i took a break on Darkest Dungueon (great game, about 15 hours in) ive played a bit of Hollow Knight.

Does anyone have a hint beside learning the pattern of the foes? Is this a very difficult game or am i doing something wrong. I beat for example Super Metroid, Sotn and Shovel Knight, and i don't remember these as that difficult like Hollow Knight. The other aspects of the game are beautiful, arts, sounds, music etc.
 

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
Just wanted to drop in here to post that Yoku's Island Express is faaaaaaantastic! If you're on the fence with this one don't hesitate to grab it at the sale price. It's worth every penny. It is super charming and a lot of fun! Who knew that pinball and a side scrolling adventure game would work so well together?!
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,947
I've been playing some Hollow Knight and I think I've come to a realization. I like games that thrive in being challenging but not games that thrive in being punishing. This game is punishing and the lack of QoL options, clearly on purpose, is making the game a bit of a chore to play. I compare it to Celeste which can be brutally challenging but keeps the game from being punishing with lots of QoL features. Having to backtrack, with minimal checkpoints, is just no fun.
Totally agree with this. I want to love the game but my gaming time is limited and I want a fair challenge. I was able to complete Celeste and whilst it was hard, the fair checkpoint system made me want to push through to the end.
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
So my (awesome) friends got me a Switch, but they didn't get me any games (which i'm ok with).
I haven't had the time to check the games on the Eshop, so i'm open to any game suggestions (except maybe puzzles/horror games).
So far i've bought Hollow Knight but i haven't had the time to start it yet. There's some games that i'm interested (like Golf Story) but aside from that, i don't know what games i should keep an eye on.

Yoku's Island Express is brilliant, has a great Switch version and it's on sale in the US.

And since I'm lazy, just about all the games at 80+ on Metacritic (plus quite a few below 80 MC as well):
http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/switch/filtered?sort=desc
 

Phabh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,702
I've been playing some Hollow Knight and I think I've come to a realization. I like games that thrive in being challenging but not games that thrive in being punishing. This game is punishing and the lack of QoL options, clearly on purpose, is making the game a bit of a chore to play. I compare it to Celeste which can be brutally challenging but keeps the game from being punishing with lots of QoL features. Having to backtrack, with minimal checkpoints, is just no fun.

Agreed. I never felt Celeste was wasting my time. HK on the other hand don't respect the player's time with useless backtracking, poorly placed checkpoints and lack of overall guidance.
 
May 5, 2018
7,353
So my (awesome) friends got me a Switch, but they didn't get me any games (which i'm ok with).
I haven't had the time to check the games on the Eshop, so i'm open to any game suggestions (except maybe puzzles/horror games).
So far i've bought Hollow Knight but i haven't had the time to start it yet. There's some games that i'm interested (like Golf Story) but aside from that, i don't know what games i should keep an eye on.
Celeste is a must have if you ask me. An extremely tight platformer with challenging but fair level design and a surprisingly heartfelt story about climbing mountains literally and figuratively.
Others games I'd keep an eye on or purchase:
  • Golf Story (though I know you're interested in that)
  • Steamworld Dig 2
  • Steamworld Heist
  • Battle Chef Brigade (actually getting a free content update tomorrow)
  • Yoku's Island Express
  • Thimbleweed Park
  • Dead Cells
  • Rocket League (If you haven't played that on another system yet)
  • Lumines Remastered
 

AceyPrime

Member
May 16, 2018
255
Picked up Neon Chrome on sale for $8.24 and really like it. For a rogue-lite it doesn't have the wacky randomness of Isaac or Gungeon but it's still fun. Thanks to the narrow corridors and laser sights you have it feels like you can be more tactical than many other rogue-lites as you can draw enemies out or around corners to pick them off. I wish the weapons were a little more interesting as they all seem pretty similar but I'm willing to overlook that. Plays great docked and handheld though it's a bit difficult to see all the action in handheld due to the small-ish characters. I appreciate the ability to unlock permanent upgrades for your characters as well as finding random upgrades each run. I love the neon-soaked cyberpunk aesthetic they went for and the office setting is enjoyable since many of the walls are able to be destroyed. Tried co-op with my son and it was a fun time - nice having another person to draw enemies out while the other shoots them in the back. You can actually play with up to 4 people co-op - the only downside is that it's not split-screen so you need to coordinate where you're going. If you want something a little more tactical in your rogue-lite shooters I'd highly recommend Neon Chrome at the sale price.
 

Deleted member 17207

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,208
The notion that "demos sell games" continues for me. Always thought Morphite looked kinda "meh", but the demo sold me. Fell in love with it, can't explain why. It's pretty simple, but it's atmospheric and fun.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
So I must've either totally forgot about the Dust an Elysian Tale announcement or missed it entirely because it's right there on the Coming Soon page for the 10th of September IIRC. Was pleasantly surprised seeing it- good to see the game finally on a Nintendo. Looking forward to replaying it myself as well.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
So I must've either totally forgot about the Dust an Elysian Tale announcement or missed it entirely because it's right there on the Coming Soon page for the 10th of September IIRC. Was pleasantly surprised seeing it- good to see the game finally on a Nintendo. Looking forward to replaying it myself as well.
Happened over the weekend.
 

Aostia82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,366
Some weird question
How is that flying superhero game?
Does anybody know something about the weird Manual Samuel game just published?

And about Moonfall Ultimate, Old school muwical and the darkside detective?
 

SickBoy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
193
How hard is Dead Cells? One of the games I see it compared to is Spelunky (accurate?). I didn't mind Spelunky, but wasn't able to get through the last chunk of that game. (And now my Vita is missing so I never will... damn kids.)

EDIT: One thing that's hurting the eShop for me is Amazon Prime. I might have purchased Battle Chef Brigade on sale at some point. Same with Serial Cleaner. (Also, maybe not). But having them on PC now, I'm not so sure. (BTW, big fan of Battle Chef Brigade for anyone on the fence)
 

furfoot

Member
Dec 12, 2017
598
I started off with Hollow Knight and got to the point where you upgrade your nail then just gave up as most of the zones I didn't have a map and really didn't feel like finding it through trial and error as all the screens just looked the same (no the sound the dude makes didn't help :). This kind of design can work in a 3d space but in 2d it all just mainly blends together even though the different zones are rather distinct.

Then I picked up Celeste and went through it in one sitting. Its challenging but just doesn't waste your time. Like one poster above put it Hollow Knight, much like the Souls series, is just punishing.
 

Sardello

Member
Oct 30, 2017
305
How hard is Dead Cells? One of the games I see it compared to is Spelunky (accurate?). I didn't mind Spelunky, but wasn't able to get through the last chunk of that game. (And now my Vita is missing so I never will... damn kids.)

EDIT: One thing that's hurting the eShop for me is Amazon Prime. I might have purchased Battle Chef Brigade on sale at some point. Same with Serial Cleaner. (Also, maybe not). But having them on PC now, I'm not so sure. (BTW, big fan of Battle Chef Brigade for anyone on the fence)
Dead Cells is a must buy. Not so hard compared to Enter the Gungeon and if you are able to finish the game, you'll have a lot of reasons to come back to it.

The unlocking system is very enjoyable and gives a clear picture of your progresses.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,298
I started off with Hollow Knight and got to the point where you upgrade your nail then just gave up as most of the zones I didn't have a map and really didn't feel like finding it through trial and error as all the screens just looked the same (no the sound the dude makes didn't help :). This kind of design can work in a 3d space but in 2d it all just mainly blends together even though the different zones are rather distinct.

Then I picked up Celeste and went through it in one sitting. Its challenging but just doesn't waste your time. Like one poster above put it Hollow Knight, much like the Souls series, is just punishing.

Im just past the part where you left off and while I get the frustration of not being able to get your bearings, the path through a lot of these zones are quite directed and more linear than usually discussed. You bumble through darkness pushing forward and usually about halfway through the map guy acts as a sort of relieving threshold, often with a natural savepoint very close. A sort of reward for clearing the section. They aren't hidden as I've encountered yet but very much directly on the natural path.

The issue certainly is that you are bumbling through the darkness against rough odds for long stretches until that flagpole, but shortcuts are often your reward to help corpse runs because it really is kind of a straight shot as you soon realize. But the gauntlet can be rough in new zones certainly. It can be harrowing when a fork appears and you are not sure which path leads to an optional treasure, a later zone that is still gated off, or the actual progression. But you are largely funneled.
 

Baladium

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
5,410
Sleep Deprivation Zone
I wonder how close this is to being done, and if we'll have more info tomorrow? *crossing fingers! *

I'd say 2019 is all but a guarantee, but I didn't even think of this featuring in tomorrow's Direct! And then after they show the trailer: "By the way, if you like retro games like the Streets of Rage series, check out these SEGA AGES games releasing exclusively on Switch on September ___".
 

Beary

Member
May 23, 2018
31
Does anybody know something about the weird Manual Samuel game just published?
To be honest: It's one of the worst games I have ever played. I got it through Twitch Prime and played for about an hour and absolutely hated it. Still almost beat the game in that time... It's incredibly tedious for example. You have to do all your bodily functions manually, hence the title, so you have to breathe by pushing a button a button every few seconds FOR THE WHOLE GAME! The whole thing gets old really fast and although they try to mix it up with different challenges like driving a car it all feels samey. It's definitively worse than Octodad in that regard. The other big selling point is the humor of the game that was just too juvenile for me. The most used "joke" is that they replaced the word shit with feces... It feels like a game made by edgy high schoolers as Youtube Bait.

The Trailer is pretty honest about all that stuff and I think a good representation of the game:
 

Factory 1.21

Member
Oct 29, 2017
462
Colorado, USA
The Switch eShop (US) has been down for maintenance. I checked Nintendo's server status page and it says everything is up.

UPDATE: Whoops, I was misreading the page. It does say that maintenance is in progress. OK.