You are pretty naive if you think Scheer will help you regarding the healthcare.
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Canada: Maxime Bernier Quits Andrew Scheer’s Conservatives To Form His Own Federal Party
- Thread starter djkimothy
- Start date
And you think Scheer is going to fix that...how? His party is the one responsible for the vast majority of issues with Canada's healthcare system.
User Warned: Antagonizing other users
P.S. If you're making under $100,000 and you think Scheer is going to save you money, you should do some basic research about the cost of his policies i.e. childcare before further de-railing this thread.
Derailing this thread huh? A fucking thread about Mad Max leaving the Conservatives , and I'm saying I support Scheer's side.
OK. Fuck off.
The fact he'll go Trumpian is good to draw votes away from the CPC, and if he is loud enough it will taint them too, to the point where they'll have to chose between going further right (guaranteed defeat) or a bit left.
But his party will be poorly financed.
But his party will be poorly financed.
No. I get asked why?, I answer and get quoted by bullshitters showing I'm sobbing into cash like woody harrelson.
Trudeau literally cost me money. He won't get my support. Simple.
This forum is clearly biased to support the left, but I dont care about that. I am a Red Tory who votes NDP when they are the least batshit crazy politicians on hand.
So, currently, the least batshit politicians in your mind are the ones who align themselves with these people:
But please, complain more about Trudeau and tell me to fuck off, i'm sure you'll endear more people to your cause if you type loud enough:
P.S. The fact that I even had to Google that antisemitic crap from Rebel to explain to you how full of shit your "least batshit" claim is makes me sick.
That sucks for you.
I hope there's a party that will fix this for you. I doubt it will come from the one you will be voting for.
If it's such a hot issue for you you should consider the party that will help you the most in that regard.
I hope there's a party that will fix this for you. I doubt it will come from the one you will be voting for.
If it's such a hot issue for you you should consider the party that will help you the most in that regard.
What I don't get is if your primary concern is not being able to afford your medication, or your medication being more expensive than it used to be... why are you not mad at the ideology that had been fighting for decades to stop any attempt at fixing that. I mean, you have the NDP and the Greens which have been fighting to have our social systems be fully featured, running on Pharmacare both federally and provincially. You also have the Liberals who sat down with the province and hammered out deals for slightly higher health transfers. Who when push comes to shove will steal NDP policies or be forced to adopt them come Minority Situations.
But the Conservatives who started this mess of underfunding healthcare by lowering Health Transfers to the Provinces, and who across the board haven't even paid lip service to the idea of more affordable drugs, are supposedly completely fine. It just makes zero financial, or logical sense.
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Fine. How about "I am a moderate, fiscally conservative centrist Canadian who refuses to vote Liberal, and has equally shitty or irrelevant choices on either side of them to choose from, but I'm probably picking Harper lite this time around"
Seriously. I don't care. If the NDP run a good person who isn't full of shit, I can switch.
Mad Max breaking off means Trudeau will get elected again anyway.
The same people who groomed him his entire life. He is a dynasty face. You are naive if you don't think the Trudeaus have outside influences just like the Clintons.
But I mean, ok. Continue to parade around the status quo Liberals while feeling smug about yourself. All the while we have the NDP ready to show how they can actually make a change, especially now that Mulcaire isn't leading.
The NDP can act however they want because they can't win. So who gives a fuck.
I'm on the other side of the river, so he's not my MP, but I hope he does and splits the vote enough to give us another NDP seat here in Saskatoon. Trost is an embarrassment.
So in other words, you have no evidence.
Also it's Mulcair. If you care so much about the NDP, at least have the decency to spell the name of their former leader right.
To be honest. I'd be surprised if any of the members of cabinet didn't fall asleep during a meeting put on by Harper. I mean, the guy was basically like a robot... and was such a control freak to the point he probably yelled at people who tried to voice their opinions.
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Well... don't be so sure. The Conservatives like to put their most radical players on the back bench. For some of them, going from the back benches to the front row may be an opportunity they won't pass up. I can name more than 10 Tories throughout the past several years who would have gladly done that.
Not having party membership = basement-dweller? How very misguided of you.
Also, here's something you need to consider:
Scheer disavowing Bernier's commentary on national TV and the words he used can be used against him to make him look "soft" on the immigrant issue to a certain subset of conservative voters. So you have to consider whether or not the average rural citizen's support for the dairy farms outweighs their irrational distrust/hatred/misdirected ire of non-white people. And we can't exactly pretend that Quebec's rural regions aren't ripe with people who would fall hook, line and sinker for alt-right talking points and be easily made to think that Scheer only talks tough on the immigration file.
Your position would have to be that rural Quebec loves dairy farmers more than they hate immigrants. And I don't think that's a bet worth making.
A bit premature there. I'm sure some prairie riding or another would get on board. Hell, that's where the Reform party built its stronghold, so....
Yeah, better to put all those fringe elements into a big-tent party so it can have a party that ends up standing for nothing because it appeases too many people at once.
Also, I will need some statistics, because I've read research which shows that countries with proportional representation do not see a major influx of "fringe parties" and that it holds no bearing on the election of crazies. Look at the UK, FFS, UKIP emerged, thrived and destroyed the country via their Brexit wet-dream under the exact same electoral system we have, so let's stop pretending the Westminster system protects us from lunatics. To say NOTHING of what happened south of the border.
Get me some stats before you toss around blatant lies like that to fear-monger against electoral reform just like Trudeau did.
I just got the biggest chill down my spine. But I also want to see him do it, for some reason, if only to highlight just how far to the right he actually is versus how he perceives and advertises himself to be.
Yes, but our system generally stops one party from taking control, which is useful when fringe elements take over the entire party, like the Republicans.
Vlaams Belang are a bunch of loudmouthed racists but I'll let them take 5% of the vote so their members aren't inclined to infiltrate our centre-right party (which isn't anywhere near perfect on that front).
As a Montreal Liberal, I think Sheer is scum for recruiting Michel Gauthier BACK into the CPC family.... just to pander to the Nationalsites. Gauthier defected from Mulroney's PC to found the Bloc Quebecois with Bouchard then later became leader of the Bloc when Bouchard left Federal politics.
this is the thing with Canadian Conservatives; ready to play games with Federalism just to win a few votes from Qc Nationalistes
Liberals are the only 100% Federalist party in Canada.
There's a sizable portion of the NDP's support in the West that are small 'c' conservative. In fact, there's a lot of Conservative voters who list the NDP as their second choice.
Political party affiliations in Canada are weird.
Corporate welfare and subsided agriculture is a Canadian staple that isn't going to go away regardless of Left or Right.
Bernier won't elect one single MP for his Libertartopian Party.
Rural :Farmers won't vote for scrapping supply side management .
Suburban :workers won't vote for removing
Corporate Welfare that will cause them to lose their jobs
Urban: LOL,
Bernier won't elect one single MP for his Libertartopian Party.
Rural :Farmers won't vote for scrapping supply side management .
Suburban :workers won't vote for removing
Corporate Welfare that will cause them to lose their jobs
Urban: LOL,
And to a lesser extend in Toronto with his brother. And look where that got us. A couple weeks of Daily Show clips.
Are they self hating? Because I can't wrap my head around flip-flopping between the Cons and the NDP. They're polar opposites at the Federal level. It's like when certain Bernie supporters were like, "yeah I'm voting for Trump!"
The Ontario Liberals were terrible. It's an anti-establishment sentiment, both opposition parties have valid criticisms. The Liberals either mismanaged the economy by over regulating it (e.g. rent controls), or mismanaged government services by making politically expedient yet nonsensical decisions (e.g. Building expensive subways in the middle of nowhere).
I wouldn't call rent control mis-management. Clearly you've never gone apartment hunting in the GTA. It's a fucking nightmare.
More like we are tired of Liberals breaking promises they lift from both sides of opposition, while spending money to grease their think tank affiliates with corporate welfare or patronage.
If there was electoral reform that isn't biased by feeding Liberals second choice votes, they would be, and even Mad Max here would be less of a contentious option for people.
I think NDP have it right to shore up the welfare state programs. Pharmacare, daycare. Because it is fiscally conservative in the long run. The Cons don't want to touch the issue, though some exist to bring it up, but they do worry about the economy while the NDP are chaining themselves up on job sites, howling against our oil sector, and irritating the blue collar pro-union base that built them up and supported them for decades.
It is like a polar opposition without much ground between them, since none of them are radically different. Voters are apathetic. Justin's Sunny Ways were a load of bullshit.
Your voting for Andrew Scheer's makes you a hypocrite at best. Voting for him is one of the worst things you can do.
I don't care if you don't vote for the liberals but voting for the cons is seriously a stupid thing to do especially with what you are saying.
I'm talking at the Federal level. Ontario Liberals much like their BC brethrens are drastically different than the Federal party. Here in Alberta, the provincial NDP party aren't exactly inline with the Federal party in all things. At the Federal level the idea that a person can easily move between the CPC and NDP parties is weird to me. There's very little overlap between the two parties.
And how are the CPC different? You still get the corporate welfare and patronage, but they also go after social programs as well.
One of the greatest follies of those on the left is overestimating the saturation point of their beliefs and underestimating the right as knuckle-dragging neanderthals. Bernier's comments on other races don't appeal to me - but I couldn't be more pleased we will have more Libertarian thoughts on the forefront to clean up this goddamn Country moving forward.
"We not neanderthals, we just are ok with virulent racism because of economics"
"I don't like racism but if it gets me more money that's fine"
If you are waiting for the NDP to have someone who "isn't full of shit", why vote for the party that always is in the meantime?
Conservative parties in Canada are going off the deep end in a rush to emulate their southern cousins.
Read the rest of the post rather than snipping it, and you will see that I already said they are not much different.
The Cons can be bad too. Harper's legacy was prisons and mandatory minimums. But with Liberal spending off in the stratosphere, Scheer's Cons are the lesser evil if we want to keep the social programs affordable.
The cons got their ass kicked and they are trying to rebuild. Progressives go back to them now that Harper is gone, trying to bring in moderate policy to appease Liberals, to the point that Scheer is literally hated by the right, and the left that never gets elected anyway is out there demonizing both sides of the Conservative party.
I am from the maritimes. I used to be a card carrying NDP member, but Jack is dead, Tom lost, Quebec turfed the rookies, and everyone I ever met still sticking around was a sensationalist. Blood thirsty and howling to destroy the oil patch that fed them, demanding social programs without a budget that makes sense. It is disheartening.
Cullen should have ran again. I don't see Jagmeet winning at all. I will never vote Liberal. Ever.
Life goes on, either way. Mad Max just sealed the deal. Minority or Majority Liberals in 2019.
So you want to stop the Liberal spending in order to make social programs more affordable, and you do that by voting in the CPC who would gut and/or cut the very programs you want to make affordable. I don't understand your logic. Also, the idea of fiscally responsible right wing governments is a myth. They too spend lots of money, they run deficits, and their tax cuts aimed towards corporations and the rich reduce tax revenue, which means less money for education, health, and social programs (which are generally what they choose to cut funding for to make up for their tax cuts).
Andrew Scheer flirts with bigots and racists, so I don't get your reasoning that he's attempting to make the CPC more moderate. Look at Doug Ford for a lesson at how the Cons would tell you what you want to hear, and then turn around and do the opposite the minute they get power. The Ontario Conservatives also promised to not touch certain social programs in their bid to "appease" dissatisfied Liberal voters. Look how quickly they reversed on those promises. You can not trust someone who is ideologically opposed to you to uphold promises they make during elections. You've given them the keys to power. What do they need you for now that you've let them in?
I mean, I think you're being deliberately obtuse, but I'm not going to resort to foolish name calling. My only question is if you seriously think that about the right how the hell is it the left loses to them so often on every political front? Believe it or not, it's totally possible to believe in fiscal restraint while also not giving a fuck about someone's color or sexual preference.
Because more people love money than they want to oppose bigotry?
Doesn't that just show there's a missing sector of the spectrum though - those who believe in economics and happen to also believe in social values? This will not be that party, but playing "because the other side is evil" is such a cop-out to actually addressing any real issues someone has. I'm sorry, I don't believe everyone whom can show fiscal restraint is a boogieman and I also don't think the left is trying to turn kids gay. The economy matters to me because without that backbone we can't do all the wonderful social things Canada is known for... it's not that hard to understand if you try.
If your voting for the conservatives than you are accepting all the racists things they are saying and doing even if you don't agree with them. Scheer has come out multiple times with some pretty shitty things and because of that I would never vote for him.
What gap? That's kind of what the liberal party does when in power. They steer away from some economic or social issues all the time, but that's still firmly their space.
The left vote is split. This isn't rocket science. Even in Ontario that put Baby Trump in power, 60% voted for left and centre-left parties. It's the same story federally, and with no FPTP, the right will have to move heaven and earth to form a federal government.
I will agree to disagree. Often the liberal platform is spend first think later. I'm not a one side voter though, so if they pitch something that makes sense for the economy it gets me excited. For instance, I'm all for free dental as a libertarian because it's proven to reduce our burden on the healthcare system overall after the initial investment. Contrast that with most of their tax and spend policies and you'll quickly find they fall short.
It's unfortunate to see these identity politics arise in Canada. I noticed in the election cycle how hard liberals on Twitter and Facebook were hitting Ford pointing out a millionaire could not be "for the people". These same people rally around Trudeau like he is somehow a self-made man who pulled up his bootstraps for the people and not a trust fund kid who has made a lot of promises without keeping them. Truth is they're both spoiled rich kids - but try explaining that to anyone who buys hard into party mantra and their eyes gloss over.
It's unfortunate to see these identity politics arise in Canada. I noticed in the election cycle how hard liberals on Twitter and Facebook were hitting Ford pointing out a millionaire could not be "for the people". These same people rally around Trudeau like he is somehow a self-made man who pulled up his bootstraps for the people and not a trust fund kid who has made a lot of promises without keeping them. Truth is they're both spoiled rich kids - but try explaining that to anyone who buys hard into party mantra and their eyes gloss over.
Did you miss 2015 when Harper and his cronies talked about old stock Canadians and the rat your brown neighbours out hotline? But yeah, it's the left harping on that shit heel Ford that's the problem.