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VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,356
Not this again
And Obsidian was always in trouble since its conception. Good management is not a strong point for them.

I'm a fan of Microsoft but did I say anything wrong (and feel free to look through my post history for that)? Canceling a game because you want it to have more Kinect features or more multiplayer features.

Before buying Obsidian I would like to know MS is going to stay on this path.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,345
I'm a fan of Microsoft but did I say anything wrong (and feel free to look through my post history for that)? Canceling a game because you want it to have more Kinect features or more multiplayer features.

Before buying Obsidian I would like to know MS is going to stay on this path.

Unless you want to contradict Feargus and Chris Avellone, yeah you did say something wrong, because they never blamed microsoft for the troubles with Stormlands (they basically pointed the fingers to themselves, or Feargus in avellone's case)

And i like Obsidian way more than i like microsoft, but they "almost died" after every game they did. From KotOR to Alpha Protocol to New Vegas, they always ended their contracts in a dire situation, this have nothing to do with microsoft but with themselves.
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
I get GamePass for free thanks to Microsoft Rewards. Best deal ever. The fact that all these 1st-Party games from Microsoft stay on the service permanently makes it a game-changer.

I still prefer my favorite mid-tier studios to stay independent (and multiplatform) instead of being bought by any big company.

You may prefer that, but the sad reality is it is VERY VERY hard for mid-tier studios to remain viable these days. I know a lot of people in the gaming industry and they have been telling me this for a decade now. Microsoft is actually doing a great service by giving a few of these size companies a lifeline. Now they can work on their passion projects 100% instead of whoring themselves out with soulless contract work.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
They seem to be all in on Gamepass. He mentions Gamepass more often than Xbox in the interview, haha.

I'm really interested to see what they'll do with it with Xbox Scarlett.
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
Interesting approach

I hope they buy a bunch of previously multiplatform studios and devs that made exclusives for other platforms so I can get a good laugh.

NlGYcKP.gif
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,077
The main surprise for me is that they don't seem to be setting up or acquiring studios outside of the UK and North America, all fairly expensive places. Compulsion is in Montreal at least. Mojang is the only studio outside of USA/Canada/UK but thay is sort of its own beast that seems to do whatever.

Setting up or acquiring a few small operations in eastern Europe or Asia might be interesting. 4A is probably a bit larger than they want at approx. 150 people, but would also be a decent get.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
Posted this in the studios thread too. What Microsoft and Xbox are doing with things like Game Pass are not only amazing for us as consumers, but IMO they are very healthy for the gaming industry as a whole too. They are giving a platform for smaller and mid-tier/AA type studios (some of which they are acquiring as first party) to be more readily seen and played. It is not healthy for everything to be always God of War this or Read Dead 2 that, or Halo Infinite (as amazing as that may be when it comes). I can personally attest to having played some games already on Game Pass and become aware of new developers that I definitely wouldn't have otherwise, e.g. having a great time with Graveyard Keeper currently.

Honestly any smaller/mid-tier developer that is struggling at all financially (studios close all the time) and thinks that they have the resume or personnel to make the pitch should be crawling over glass to speak with Microsoft when reading articles such as this and other comments being made by the Xbox folks. Ultimately some of these studios can actually survive and even thrive then with content available on at least two platforms to start (Xbox console, PC), with what sounds like the potential in the next couple years to have their games streaming to way more devices too based on what they are hinting at.

Awesome time to be a gamer in general and certainly excited as a long time Xbox fan too.
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
AA content makes sense for the GamePass service.

But AAA content are the system sellers. Really depends on the cost of entry. For example I'd get a PS5 as my main system, Switch 2 for portable gaming, and XB streaming device if there's anything of interest. Days are long gone where I'd own two, let alone three, full priced systems just to hook upto my TV.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
Exciting times!

Hopefully this leads to more AAA lower - mid length single player games without all that extra fluff they throw in to hopefully make you feel better about your 60$ purchase.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
AA content makes sense for the GamePass service.

But AAA content are the system sellers. Really depends on the cost of entry. For example I'd get a PS5 as my main system, Switch 2 for portable gaming, and XB streaming device if there's anything of interest. Days are long gone where I'd own two, let alone three, full priced systems just to hook upto my TV.

So you'd be buying a $100 - $200 dollar streaming device + a $120 subscription from MS. I think they'd be fine with that. ;)
 

Calm Killer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824
So this begs the question. Who would the actual targets be? Quick ERA, compile me a list of the potential targets. 50-125 devs.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
I wouldn't freak out that they are only buying studios for AA content. You never know when one of them comes out with a break out hit and becomes a legit AAA first party studio.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,356
Anwyays, rumor has it letter of intent was signed by Obsidian before E3 according to klobrille, though Microsoft hadnt signed it yet by that point. He admittedly isnt 100% sure on this.

Oooh, this is really interesting. You know what if that's he case hopefully Microsoft gets them. I always felt like they were 1-2 steps away from a classic with the games they've made

And i like Obsidian way more than i like microsoft, but they "almost died" after every game they did. From KotOR to Alpha Protocol to New Vegas, they always ended their contracts in a dire situation, this have nothing to do with microsoft but with themselves.

Yea I can agree to this. I feel like they kinda rush a lot of their projects to hit a deadline even tho there's definitely quality underneath. Well actually by " a lot of projects" I mean KOTOR II and New Vegas. Great but flawed games that needed more time in the oven.
 

Chocobo115

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,308
Sweden
I'm sure Matt Booty is fucking sweating now that he knows they don't have your respect. Also, everyone does the same. Naughty Dog wasn't started from scrath at Sony, in case you didn't know.

No ofc Xbox Will care for what I think, don't be silly. But I don't like how Xbox run their software business so I don't buy their products. If enough of other people thinks the same then maybe it'll be a difference.
I'm aware the ND started out on Mac and 3DO first. Now would you kindly point out what games they released on Nintendo and Xbox systems?

So people can complain about the Initiative "stealing" talent from other studios instead of hiring unknown college students, am i right?

No, people move around when they need to. I'm sure all had perfectly valid reasons to move from one studio to another.
 

RevenantAxe

Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,274
Yup...I'm still skeptical. Promises and PR is kind of MS GOTY candidate this gen.

But you can miss me with all the services stuff. Bring the games and make sure they are amazing.
Guy who was fuking up things is gone from there. Phill calling shots now. He is head of entire MS entertainment division now with full support of Satya. There's no more Terry Myerson to hold Phill back .
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
You may prefer that, but the sad reality is it is VERY VERY hard for mid-tier studios to remain viable these days. I know a lot of people in the gaming industry and they have been telling me this for a decade now. Microsoft is actually doing a great service by giving a few of these size companies a lifeline. Now they can work on their passion projects 100% instead of whoring themselves out with soulless contract work.

Can't disagree with that. Of course, I'd still prefer my favorite studios being bought rather than going bankrupt. But it's not like studios being bought by a big company aren't shut down. I can give you dozens of sad examples of great studios being ruined by corporate greed. Also, a studio being locked to a single platform/ecosystem alienates a lot of gamers on other ecosystems. So yeah, I hope my favorite studios are healthy enough to stay independent.
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,688
The way they're positioning Game Pass as part of this is interesting. I wonder if they're looking at it as a way to get people playing titles that would ordinarily be seen as potentially risky to fund. People will give it a go just because it's part of their pass.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
I think gamepass could be huge but it could also fall right on it's face. To me I don't see the value in gamepass right now but that could change if they do it right.

The thing about studios and keeping the culture intact is probably the first reassuring thing I have seen from MS in years. I have very little faith in them as a company especially when they have bought studios in the past and than nothing really came out from them and they were closed down.

Let's hope it rings true that is what they are doing and they do actually step up their first party.

That's also true.

This is not your father's Microsoft.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,646
The Milky Way
So given if there is no flexibility to that rule it would count out the Obsidian rumour given they are around 170-200 strong.
Playground is an exception to this rule, although I suppose they fit in to their AAA criteria, rather than what Matt is talking about which seems to be more Game Pass focused.

I like the idea of them working with lots of smaller teams on AA games to keep a steady flow of new and interesting content for Game Pass, whilst also doubling down on their AAA studios too.

What I'm confused about is how open Microsoft is being about their plans.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
So this begs the question. Who would the actual targets be? Quick ERA, compile me a list of the potential targets. 50-125 devs.

We did some speculation, some are a bit bigger, but sure:
- Obisidian Games
- Deck13
- 4A Games
- Playful Games
- Asobo
- Certain Affinity
- Capcom Vancouver
- Armature Studios

But there are so many options. Lol.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
The way they're positioning Game Pass as part of this is interesting. I wonder if they're looking at it as a way to get people playing titles that would ordinarily be seen as potentially risky to fund. People will give it a go just because it's part of their pass.

Oh for sure. MS is going to want variety which includes crazy niche games that could make waves on forums, reddit and Twitch. While they may have been a risk in the past (have to sell X amount to make money) they are less risky now and just add to the content on GP.

Also, think of all the viral hooks added to HD consoles over the years... friends lists, achievements, etc. Game Pass is going to really benefit from this as if you see a friend playing a weird ass game you can check it out too with just a simple download.
 

RevenantAxe

Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,274
Oh for sure. MS is going to want variety which includes crazy niche games that could make waves on forums, reddit and Twitch. While they may have been a risk in the past (have to sell X amount to make money) they are less risky now and just add to the content on GP.

Also, think of all the viral hooks added to HD consoles over the years... friends lists, achievements, etc. Game Pass is going to really benefit from this as if you see a friend playing a weird ass game you can check it out too with just a simple download.

NT is their new IP story focused studio. Their games fit well in Game Pass. I think Remedy also fits perfectly as their games are very Episodic in nature .

MS putting all of their games whether AAA like Gears or AA.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,646
The Milky Way
AA content makes sense for the GamePass service.

But AAA content are the system sellers. Really depends on the cost of entry. For example I'd get a PS5 as my main system, Switch 2 for portable gaming, and XB streaming device if there's anything of interest. Days are long gone where I'd own two, let alone three, full priced systems just to hook upto my TV.
Indeed, but they're currently expanding their AAA studios, and also set up The Initiative, and acquired Playground who have a second studio working on Fable etc. So it's not just AA. But AAA is clearly where Sony has a massive strength over Microsoft and I don't see that changing to any degree before the next gen begins. That said, three of Sony's biggest AAA games this year didn't even come from their own studios: SotC, Detroit and Spider-Man - so it's not just about acquisitions; Microsoft needs to be forging better relationships on a second party level too. That's another area where Sony has a massive lead.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Also, not even thinking first party for a second, wait until the crazy announcement where MS says Witcher 4 (or whatever) will launch on Game Pass day/date. They have a TON of options to make this service a success.
 

RevenantAxe

Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,274
Indeed, but they're currently expanding their AAA studios, and also set up The Initiative, and acquired Playground who have a second studio working on Fable etc. So it's not just AA. But AAA is clearly where Sony has a massive strength over Microsoft and I don't see that changing to any degree before the next gen begins. That said, three of Sony's biggest AAA games this year didn't even come from their own studios: SotC, Detroit and Spider-Man - so it's not just about acquisitions; Microsoft needs to be forging better relationships on a second party level too. That's another area where Sony has a massive lead.


Yea true, they need more 2nd and 3rd party exclusives.

As far as studios concerned, Initiative, PG, 343, T10 and Coliation are there AAA studios.


Rest are AA. Ninja Theory is AA in terms of project size but their production quality matches AAA.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,646
The Milky Way
Yea true, they need more 2nd and 3rd party exclusives.

As far as studios concerned, Initiative, PG, 343, T10 and Coliation are there AAA studios.


Rest are AA. Ninja Theory is AA in terms of project size but their production quality matches AAA.
Rare is clearly AAA by definition, even if I thought SoT was shite. They're also rapidly expanding right now.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
Yup, Rare has almost doubled in size within 2 years. Most of them seem to be working on Sea of Thieves tho.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Yea true, they need more 2nd and 3rd party exclusives.

As far as studios concerned, Initiative, PG, 343, T10 and Coliation are there AAA studios.


Rest are AA. Ninja Theory is AA in terms of project size but their production quality matches AAA.

Ninja Theory is just one hit first party game away from being a full blown AAA studio. A lot of those studios are.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Microsoft finally gets it. Does this mean they renounce the gaas future? How will this bode for gamepass?

Game Pass is GAAS. This is why I was excited about their future as soon as they announced Game Pass would be the core and all their 1st party would be Day 1 in the service.

New story driven games from AA studios are an equivalent expense to DLC for AAA games.

They need a variety of content to cast a wide net for the service. Much like Netflix doesn't have a single model for its content. Netflix has their big, ongoing franchises but they also have a variety of one and done content.

These games no longer have to justify themselves in a vacuum. For example, Ninja Theories next game may drive someone to pay $10 for one month to play that game. Consumer subsequently tries out Sea of Thieves and State of Decay and likes them. Consumer buys micro-transactions in SOT and the DLC for SOD. Consumer sticks and keeps paying $10 a month.

Microsoft will need loss leader content. Content that drives all types of people to the service. Then they'll have other ways to monitize and get people to stick once they're there.

Most of all, it gets consumers interacting in the Xbox ecosystem where Microsoft is good at monetizing once consumers stick. It's a web. These single player games will be just one way to get people caught in the web.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,931
Game Pass is GAAS. This is why I was excited about their future as soon as they announced Game Pass would be the core and all their 1st party would be Day 1 in the service.

New story driven games from AA studios are an equivalent expense to DLC for AAA games.

They need a variety of content to cast a wide net for the service. Much like Netflix doesn't have a single model for its content. Netflix has their big, ongoing franchises but they also have a variety of one and done content.

These games no longer have to justify themselves in a vacuum. For example, Ninja Theories next game may drive someone to pay $10 for one month to play that game. Consumer subsequently tries out Sea of Thieves and State of Decay and likes them. Consumer buys micro-transactions in SOT and the DLC for SOD. Consumer sticks and keeps paying $10 a month.

Microsoft will need loss leader content. Content that drives all types of people to the service. Then they'll have other ways to monitize and get people to stick once they're there.
Exactly
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Game Pass is GAAS. This is why I was excited about their future as soon as they announced Game Pass would be the core and all their 1st party would be Day 1 in the service.

New story driven games from AA studios are an equivalent expense to DLC for AAA games.

They need a variety of content to cast a wide net for the service. Much like Netflix doesn't have a single model for its content. Netflix has their big, ongoing franchises but they also have a variety of one and done content.

These games no longer have to justify themselves in a vacuum. For example, Ninja Theories next game may drive someone to pay $10 for one month to play that game. Consumer subsequently tries out Sea of Thieves and State of Decay and likes them. Consumer buys micro-transactions in SOT and the DLC for SOD. Consumer sticks and keeps paying $10 a month.

Microsoft will need loss leader content. Content that drives all types of people to the service. Then they'll have other ways to monitize and get people to stick once they're there.

Most of all, it gets consumers interacting in the Xbox ecosystem where Microsoft is good at monetizing once consumers stick. It's a web. These single player games will be just one way to get people caught in the web.

Yup, this 100%.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Microsoft already almost killed Obsidian once this gen. Unless Obsidian is in trouble I hope they stay away.

Obsidian's a shell of their former selves anyway. This is not the same company that put out kotor 2, AP and new vegas. Most of the notable talent behind those games left years ago.

Also a thread where we beg a corporation to buy out a bunch of studios is a very unsettling thing to me.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Obsidian's a shell of their former selves anyway. This is not the same company that put out kotor 2, AP and new vegas. Most of the notable talent behind those games left years ago.

Also a thread where we beg a corporation to buy out a bunch of studios is a very unsettling thing to me.
There was a demand for Microsoft to expand their first party offering. The only way they could sustain that was by either building new studios or buying some studios.

They have gone for a mix.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
Obsidian's a shell of their former selves anyway. This is not the same company that put out kotor 2, AP and new vegas. Most of the notable talent behind those games left years ago.

Also a thread where we beg a corporation to buy out a bunch of studios is a very unsettling thing to me.

Their Pillars of Eternity games have one of the highest MC ratings of their companies history ? So the new talent seems to do just fine.