Cyberpunk 2077 Twitter account makes transphobic joke (READ OP)

Redcrayon · Aug 22, 2018

Christine said:
It's often more socially acceptable than other bigotries so it's a good way to test the waters. Holding that door open is a great way to signal that it's safe to start bringing in and building up to other prejudices and hatreds.

This is a really good point, and probably why so many burner accounts have been using it as a test case. It plays off of the general lack of understanding around trans issues amongst the general public, and tries to turn that ignorance into a valid stance with 'but it's ok to be ignorant and treat it as a joke, because it doesn't matter anyway'. Clearly it does matter when we have a small horde of people desperate to ignore Era's TOS just as long as they can get a dig in about how trans issues are just a joke.

I don't get how anyone can think a forum setup with a mod/admin team robustly defending its more vulnerable communities is somehow a bad thing. There are thousands of cesspits where you can shitpost your personal bigotry about whoever you like on the internet, and yet one island of only 40,000 members is apparently a problem worth whining about, infiltrating and boasting about being banned from for offering something else.

It's a scale thing, these idiots like to have a go at any community they see as small and/or vulnerable, going to pathetically incredible lengths to do so, without realising that such vindictiveness and the need for small groups to stick together is why Era came about in the first place.

Gee · Aug 22, 2018

Machachan said:
...
This is *why* it's the basic job of anyone doing PR to do research into things like this. It's the first thing you do.
Professional compenies that are more than two indie guys usually have *several* people whose sole job is to look into that. The details they look at would surprise you. I can't mention specific companies for NDA reasons, but if you compare the output of games companies in different languages, and compare, say, Russian to German to English, you'll notice some unusual differences in their marketing. The above is why that is.

I know very little of PR, but this makes sense.
This thread shows how a single tweet can explode. (Especially if followed up by message which is considered insincere by many)

Linkura · Aug 22, 2018

Wasn't able to check in to this thread since yesterday because I've been sick, but I'm glad to see other people and the mods have been picking up the slack on the reporting/bans. Thanks everyone. <3

Raven117 · Aug 22, 2018

This thread certainly has been something. An interesting read, thats for sure.

Some good information.

Linkura · Aug 22, 2018

Platy said:

Did she implicitly admit to having an alt? lmao

saenima · Aug 22, 2018

Like the poster above, i want to thank the mods for taking the garbage out. Keep the air fresh.

Xenon · Aug 22, 2018

rjinaz said:
lol It's weird why people all of a sudden feel completely different about this situation that they even do the opposite of what they usually stand for and even lie about it. Can't quite place my finger on it...

I don't agree with a corporate account being used for insensitive and demeaning jokes and would not have an issue with the guy being fired for the meme being used. But there is a difference between the two. The lady from ArenaNet directly accused a prominent member of her employers community of being sexist and then tried to publicly shame him on twitter while having her employer information in her twitter handle. The guy from Ciberpunk was not directly attacking anyone. But as I said before he was being unprofessional and posted something that goes beyond just a joke. Also as others have said, until this thread I didn't even know that was a meme. But it's obvious the person who tweeted it did. To turn things around how many people who were against her firing are for his?

I believe that every piece of straw shares in responsibility in breaking the camels back, in this case making gaming hostile to LBGT. But I have to disagree with the notion that they share in the larger issues like Trans-phobia and the darker societal issues which plague that community. To go back to the analogy, if straw isn't the only thing there and the load included other baggage and things, then I don't think it's right to make that comparison. This joke is not equal to the hate and bigotry that people get from their community and even their family. It does add to it, no doubt. So why make the distinction? Because if you don't it makes it easier to dismiss due to the scope of the offense. Saying that joke makes the person who said it trans-phobic assumes a lot beyond what was posted. No one can say he meant to demean trans people or dehumanize them. But I think we can be pretty sure he was being an ass, and that is not something you should not do while representing the company.

Austin Walker's response was one for advantaged perspective. His job is to look at the larger picture and his response was based on that. I don't think it was a fair one. It took into account the larger picture and weighted it as this person was responsible for all of it. As I said earlier, if you want to throw this into a larger discussion on gaming's treatment of LGBT thats fine, but including it with all the abuse is not a accurate comparison. So I do disagree with his take on what the comment was and what it meant.

rras1994 · Aug 22, 2018

Xenon said:
I don't agree with a corporate account being used for insensitive and demeaning jokes and would not have an issue with the guy being fired for the meme being used. But there is a difference between the two. The lady from ArenaNet directly accused a prominent member of her employers community of being sexists and then tried to publicly shame him on twitter while having her employer information in her twitter handle. The guy from Ciberpunk was not directly attacking anyone. But as I said before he was being unprofessional and posted something that goes beyond just a joke. Also as others have said, until this thread I didn't even know that was a meme. But it's obvious the person who tweeted it did. To turn things around how many people who were against her firing are for his?

I believe that every piece of straw shares in responsibility in breaking the camels back, in this case making gaming hostile to LBGT. But I have to disagree with the notion that they share in the larger issues like Trans-phobia and the darker societal issues which plague that community. To go back to the analogy, if straw isn't the only thing there and the load included other baggage and things, then I don't think it's right to make that comparison. This joke is not equal to the hate and bigotry that people get from their community and even their family. It does add to it, no doubt. So why make the distinction? Because if you don't it makes it easier to dismiss due to the scope of the offense. Saying that joke makes the person who said it trans-phobic assumes a lot beyond what was posted. No one can say he meant to demean trans people or dehumanize them. But I think we can be pretty sure he was being an ass, and that is not something you should not do while representing the company.

Austin Walker's response was one for advantaged perspective. His job is to look at the larger picture and his response was based on that. I don't think it was a fair one. It took into account the larger picture and weighted it as this person was responsible for all of it. As I said earlier, if you want to throw this into a larger discussion on gaming's treatment of LGBT thats fine, but including it with all the abuse is not a accurate comparison. So I do disagree with his take on what the comment was and what it meant.

Your whole post is basically accusing someone of being sexist is actually worse then being a bigot to a marginlised group. That's a load of bullsh*t.

Xenon · Aug 22, 2018

rras1994 said:
Your whole post is basically accusing someone of being sexist is actually worse then being a bigot to a marginlised group. That's a load of bullsh*t.

No I said it was different.

eyeball_kid · Aug 22, 2018

Masterspeed said:
I think people need to remember that whoever controls their social media account doesn't represent views of any of the other members of CDPR unless they say so. This isn't me defending the tweet at all because it was obviously in terribly bad taste, but if anyone should be accountable for the actions taken, it should be for their social media team/whoever wrote the tweet.

The original tweet is the responsibility of the person running that account. The "apology" is a direct reflection of the attitudes of the management team at CDPR.

Waddle Dee · Aug 22, 2018

I regards to posting pics from banned people getting mad outside of the forum... it really doesn't matter.

Era was always going to get a bad rep from many people outside of the forum due to the connections to Gaf and because we generally hold progressive beliefs and ask that everyone on the forums does the same. These kinds of progressive views just aren't accepted by a large margin of "gamers" and you'll always find people calling the site "toxic" and "hostile" just out of sheer spite.

Fuck those people and let's all focus on making sure Era lives up to the progressive label it's been given by both its supporters and detractors. We need to make Era a safe place for people who aren't often welcomed elsewhere and it doesn't matter what the manchildren outside of the forum think.

rras1994 · Aug 22, 2018

Xenon said:
No I said it was different.

I read your statement, it was pretty much a defense of the tweeter, saying it's wrong to assume they were being transphobic - you were harsher over Jessica Price then you were a guy who made a transphobic tweet when that was his actual job was PR/community, whereas Jessica was a dev/not CM. Making transphobic jokes is demeaning trans people. It makes their identity a joke - that's demeaning. He meant it as demeaning, he just didn't think it was a big deal.

Protein · Aug 22, 2018

Razmos said:
And Clix is responding too haha, making a goddamn legion of doom or some shit.

I wonder how long they cried after they were banned. If only they put that much effort into showing some empathy for human beings.

srtrestre · Aug 22, 2018

I'll never understand this fascination with setting up alt/burner accounts just to throw them away. It's like a baboon flinging turds at a wall.

Even if just takes a minute or two, that's time you'll never get back, and for what? Nothing.

Razmos · Aug 22, 2018

Waddle Dee said:
I regards to posting pics from banned people getting mad outside of the forum... it really doesn't matter.

Era was always going to get a bad rep from many people outside of the forum due to the connections to Gaf and because we generally hold progressive beliefs and ask that everyone on the forums does the same. These kinds of progressive views just aren't accepted by a large margin of "gamers" and you'll always find people calling the site "toxic" and "hostile" just out of sheer spite.

Fuck those people and let's all focus on making sure Era lives up to the progressive label it's been given by both its supporters and detractors. We need to make Era a safe place for people who aren't often welcomed elsewhere and it doesn't matter what the manchildren outside of the forum think.

Absolutely agreed, well said.

deepFlaw · Aug 22, 2018

Razmos said:
And Clix is responding too haha, making a goddamn legion of doom or some shit.

Not to drag too much off-site stuff into this, but I glanced at that and saw his reply to Austin Walker's tweets about this, with Clix basically arguing that the game should have transphobia and racism in it because it'd "reflect reality" better (which... isn't even directly relevant to what the tweets were saying, because they were about the genre's failings, but...).

Wish he'd just openly that shit in here to begin with; it would have gotten things over with faster and people wouldn't have had to waste time on him.

Xenon · Aug 22, 2018

rras1994 said:
I read your statement, it was pretty much a defense of the tweeter, saying it's wrong to assume they were being transphobic - you were harsher over Jessica Price then you were a guy who made a transphobic tweet when that was his actual job was PR/community, whereas Jessica was a dev/not CM. Making transphobic jokes is demeaning trans people. It makes their identity a joke - that's demeaning. He meant it as demeaning, he just didn't think it was a big deal.

I was not defending the tweeter. One was more directly hostile. But both were fire-able offenses though. Which is something I felt the person I responded to didn't agree with. Also calling that person a bigot makes assumptions beyond what he posted. He may be one and Im sure people are digging through the tweets of that account so we'll soon find out.

Flammable D · Aug 22, 2018

deepFlaw said:
Not to drag too much off-site stuff into this, but I glanced at that and saw his reply to Austin Walker's tweets about this, with Clix basically arguing that the game should have transphobia and racism in it because it'd "reflect reality" better (which... isn't even directly relevant to what the tweets were saying, because they were about the genre's failings, but...).

Wish he'd just openly that shit in here to begin with; it would have gotten things over with faster and people wouldn't have had to waste time on him.

I should have listened to whoever said we were being derailed tbh, would have saved me some infraction points lol

MisterBear · Aug 22, 2018

KNECHT said:
It's a bad taste joke, obviously.

But banning all these people?, seems too hard for me. It would be easier to just talk and try to convice people instead making only two separated groups, banning them and call that users intolerants won't solve anything.

This is where the last forum fell apart... guess we are going that way again. Gahh...

rras1994 · Aug 22, 2018

Xenon said:
I was not defending the tweeter. One was more directly hostile. But both were fire-able offenses though. Which is something I felt the person I responded to didn't agree with. Also calling that person a bigot makes assumptions beyond what he posted. He may be one and Im sure people are digging through the tweets of that account so we'll soon find out.

That's very arguable as one: Areanet didn't even do a full investigation into it but caved to mob pressure and two: there were a hell of alot of devs who defended Price and thought she shouldn't be fired, including her colleague who worked at the company for 12 years and also got fired for defending her - I don't see devs reaching out to defend that tweet guy, do you? And in this case, PR is actually the dudes job and yes, he was transphobic - I'm not going to worry about "intent" here cus most bigoted behaviour is subconcious behaviour - this person still thought it was okay to mock someones identity and likely didn't think he was being a bigot for doing so - bigoted people don't go around thinking they are bigots.

SantaC · Aug 22, 2018

MisterBear said:
This is where the last forum fell apart... guess we are going that way again. Gahh...

Agreed. Things got shaky when people got massbanned for disagreeing with Evilore. I still remember the uproar for banning smokey.

Razmos · Aug 22, 2018

SantaC said:
Agreed. Things got shaky when people got massbanned for disagreeing with Evilore. I still remember the uproar for banning smokey.

???
How do you equate people being banned for being transphobic to people being banned for disagreeing with an asshole forum owner?

Those situations are not at all similar

crienne · Aug 22, 2018

SantaC said:
Agreed. Things got shaky when people got massbanned for disagreeing with Evilore. I still remember the uproar for banning smokey.

Okay, but the difference is people here are getting banned for being bigots, trolls, alt accounts, or all three.

Ferrs · Aug 22, 2018

MisterBear said:
This is where the last forum fell apart... guess we are going that way again. Gahh...

The last forum fell apart because the owner turned to be a sexual harasser.

Laiza · Aug 22, 2018

MisterBear said:
This is where the last forum fell apart... guess we are going that way again. Gahh...

SantaC said:
Agreed. Things got shaky when people got massbanned for disagreeing with Evilore. I still remember the uproar for banning smokey.

???

What's with this false equivalency? Maybe you should look back at what actually caused GAF's downfall, cause it sure as hell wasn't banning people for blatant transphobia.

Zellia · Aug 22, 2018

This thread sadly shows how far we have yet to go in dealing with transphobia. At least they draw bigots and burners like moths to a flame though. They just can't help themselves.

Arkanim94 · Aug 22, 2018

Welp, w have reached the "this is why gaf died" stage.
I think this thread has run its course.

DevilPuncher · Aug 22, 2018

SantaC said:
Agreed. Things got shaky when people got massbanned for disagreeing with Evilore. I still remember the uproar for banning smokey.

Equating people being banned for blatant transphobia and people being banned for speaking out against the sexual harassment allegations of a forum owner is pretty disingenuous.

Kilic95 · Aug 22, 2018

MisterBear said:
This is where the last forum fell apart... guess we are going that way again. Gahh...

What? The only thing falling apart is your memory.

Jecht · Aug 22, 2018

SantaC said:
Agreed. Things got shaky when people got massbanned for disagreeing with Evilore. I still remember the uproar for banning smokey.

Don't sit here and try to retcon the reason this forum started into something it wasn't. Everyone left because the owner turned out to be a sexual predator, and who now condones racism, homophobia, and transphobia on his forum.

Some of us have memories longer than goldfish.

Garjon · Aug 22, 2018

I never saw this meme as an attack on all trans people, more those who get angry at those who accidentally misgender them with nothing to indicate their status etc. While there are some that deliberately do this to put trans people down, I don't think it is anywhere near a majority of incidents (not in 2018 anyway). That said, the use of it in this context (as it was when the Sonic account used the much more transphobic attack helicopter meme) is just weird and makes no sense and the best thing to do is to make a decent apology and move on so that we can all hold CDPR better to account over their awful workplace practices.

Fuck anyone who calls for the person operating the account to lose their job though, dooming the livelihood of someone and their family over one stupid mistake

Weiss · Aug 22, 2018

Garjon said:
I never saw this meme as an attack on all trans people, more those who get angry at those who accidentally misgender them with nothing to indicate their status etc. While there are some that deliberately do this to put trans people down, I don't think it is anywhere near a majority of incidents (not in 2018 anyway). That said, the use of it in this context (as it was when the Sonic account used the much more transphobic attack helicopter meme) is just weird and makes no sense and the best thing to do is to make a decent apology and move on so that we can all hold CDPR better to account over their awful workplace practices.

Fuck anyone who calls for the person operating the account to lose their job though, dooming the livelihood of someone and their family over one stupid mistake

Why is a trans person not allowed to get angry for being misgendered? Why is it okay to make that a joke?

DukeBlue · Aug 22, 2018

I have a quick and genuine question, how do we know the PR person's intention was for the joke to be harmful? It was very distasteful, but from the reactions in this thread I thought the tweet would have said something much worse

entrydenied · Aug 22, 2018

srtrestre said:
I'll never understand this fascination with setting up alt/burner accounts just to throw them away. It's like a baboon flinging turds at a wall.

Even if just takes a minute or two, that's time you'll never get back, and for what? Nothing.

Some people use it for fuel to attack the forum. There's someone on twitter posting many screenshots of people getting banned,followed by others chiming in about how this place is the most toxic. They relish in this. They do this to tell themselves they're the ones who are right.

Weiss · Aug 22, 2018

DukeBlue said:
I have a quick and genuine question, how do we know the PR person's intention was for the joke to be harmful? It was very distasteful, but from the reactions in this thread I thought the tweet would have said something much worse

The bigger problem is that even if they didn't they're still contributing to transphobia by perpetuating the meme.

It's like how high schools kids use "gay" as a pejorative. The fact that the term, or "did you just assume my gender" in this case, is being used as a shorthand is the problem.

Kinsei · Aug 22, 2018

Garjon said:
I never saw this meme as an attack on all trans people, more those who get angry at those who accidentally misgender them with nothing to indicate their status etc. While there are some that deliberately do this to put trans people down, I don't think it is anywhere near a majority of incidents (not in 2018 anyway). That said, the use of it in this context (as it was when the Sonic account used the much more transphobic attack helicopter meme) is just weird and makes no sense and the best thing to do is to make a decent apology and move on so that we can all hold CDPR better to account over their awful workplace practices.

Fuck anyone who calls for the person operating the account to lose their job though, dooming the livelihood of someone and their family over one stupid mistake

And how many trans people have you seen get angry at people misgendering them? Newsflash, most of us are afraid to even politely correct cis people because that's how we get murdered.

Eumi · Aug 22, 2018

Garjon said:
I never saw this meme as an attack on all trans people, more those who get angry at those who accidentally misgender them with nothing to indicate their status etc. While there are some that deliberately do this to put trans people down, I don't think it is anywhere near a majority of incidents (not in 2018 anyway). That said, the use of it in this context (as it was when the Sonic account used the much more transphobic attack helicopter meme) is just weird and makes no sense and the best thing to do is to make a decent apology and move on so that we can all hold CDPR better to account over their awful workplace practices.

Fuck anyone who calls for the person operating the account to lose their job though, dooming the livelihood of someone and their family over one stupid mistake

Mocking people who are upset about being misgensered is incredibly transphobic.

Suede · Aug 22, 2018

The discussion has largely moved on from the Tweet in question and is mostly metacommentary now, so it appears that the thread has finally run its course.

Cyberpunk 2077 Twitter account makes transphobic joke (READ OP)

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