Cyberpunk 2077 Twitter account makes transphobic joke (READ OP)

Stop It said:

Yeah because what's more important is the right for people to use bigoted language so long as they totally don't know it's bad to do so.

Because guess what. People who are downtrodden, who wake up each day to transphobia, to hatred and people who don't want them to even exist, there's no distinction. The hurt doesn't change when you see hate depending on whether the perpetrators "meant it" or not.

You've spent a great deal trying to get people to understand the "other side". How about understanding from.the view of those who are victims of hate and not dismissing them with "life sucks, get over it".

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And you are missing the entire point because you are wanting to be aggressive.

And no, because you are cherry picking. I am on the side of not calling for someone to be fired. That has always been my stance. Just as I took it with regards to ArenaNet. People make mistakes. But you want to make into an argument because you would rather be aggressive, and if you rather be that, then don't engage me because I'm not taking that bait.

And don't talk to me about understand, because as I have mentioned before, yes, as both a minority and an immigrant in this country, I have been on the receiving end. Of both actual good ol fashion racism and from people who were just tone deaf and not malicious.

azfaru said:

yall are so sensitive. i just find that this day and age everything is a minefield.

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lol fuck off

azfaru said:

yall are so sensitive. i just find that this day and age everything is a minefield.

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I see that you edited the second sentence in afterwards.

Oheao said:

I see that you edited the second sentence in afterwards.

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It didn't improve his post. At all.

You'd think after post after post of the exact same thing getting banned, they'd learn by now...

Mesoian said:

You're probably right, but the ones being banned are usually the ones flying in someone's face about some nonsense that has nothing to do with the actual topic and who's point boils down to little more than "man, people are thin skinned these days, but I'm not gonna change myself because I'm not the problem!" They're the problem.

Also I came at you kind of hard last post, that's my fault. I came from another police shooting thread and that got me a little worked up.

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azfaru said:

yall are so sensitive. i just find that this day and age everything is a minefield.

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See?

FormatCompatible said:

It didn't improve his post. At all.

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Well, I just wanted to clarify in case.

azfaru said:

yall are so sensitive. i just find that this day and age everything is a minefield.

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Yet you were soft enough to let it affect you enough to post.

Eumi said:

Even if you weren't being naive, what you want would make this place less welcoming for minorities as they would have to post alongside people who despise them.

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The people they're talking about are ignorant, not bigots.

Clix said:

Life's not that simple.

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The joke is at its core bigoted, it's the foundation of why it's "funny". The only excuse for using it and acting like there is some middle where it's not a horrible thing to mock people is if it was written by a monkey with a typewriter. So was this written by somebody who thinks it's funny to mock trans and non-binary people, or is this a case of a chimpanzee with a typewriter chancing upon transphobic Shakespeare.

Clix said:

And you are missing the entire point because you are wanting to be aggressive.

And no, because you are cherry picking. I am on the side of not calling for someone to be fired. That has always been my stance. Just as I took it with regards to ArenaNet. People make mistakes. But you want to make into an argument because you would rather be aggressive, and if you rather be that, then don't engage me because I'm not taking that bait.

And don't talk to me about understand, because as I have mentioned before, yes, as both a minority and an immigrant in this country, I have been on the receiving end. Of both actual good ol fashion racism and from people who were just tone deaf and not malicious.

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Flammable D said:

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Are you serious..?

fuchsdh said:

I'm going to push back every time this image gets used. The Nazis didn't gain power because people said "let's give them a chance", even from the standpoint of elections. It's an exceptional dumbing down of the rise of nazism, and further tries to link Popper's comments directly to Nazi Germany for a spooky Godwin's Law mic drop (while the book spends some time talking about the rise of fascism, I don't think he ever even mentioned Nazis in the original book.) Redistributed comics are no substitute for actually arguing an opinion.

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Do you think it's fair to characterize the original point as intolerance/persecution needing to be unlawful? The imagery is brought in at least partly because it's a response to talking points of modern neo-Nazis and alt-right white supremacists, that try to twist a society's own protections to insulating their overthrow. When persecution can't be codified into law (because the society protects against it), fascism becomes much harder to implement.

KNECHT said:

I'm sure some of those banned aren't transphobic, just aren't capable to understand that this could offend some people and I think this could be solved just talking...

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...

55 pages and several bans later... People have explained why this is an issue and yet many continue to show their ass. Some are just throwing themselves off the cliff at this point.

Clix said:

And you are missing the entire point because you are wanting to be aggressive.

And no, because you are cherry picking. I am on the side of not calling for someone to be fired. That has always been my stance. Just as I took it with regards to ArenaNet. People make mistakes. But you want to make into an argument because you would rather be aggressive, and if you rather be that, then don't engage me because I'm not taking that bait.

And don't talk to me about understand, because as I have mentioned before, yes, as both a minority and an immigrant in this country, I have been on the receiving end. Of both actual good ol fashion racism and from people who were just tone deaf and not malicious.

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So people should get a free pass from their actions because you handwave anything as a mistake.

Good for you. That doesn't preclude the rights of others to disagree.

Dragnipur said:

The people they're talking about are ignorant, not bigots.

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What exactly defines the difference and what system could this forum put in place to determine one from the other?

Nobody is being banned for asking why this is bad, they're being banned for coming in already stating it isn't and that if you disagree you're too sensitive or the real bigot or whatever.

Xaszatm said:

You'd think after post after post of the exact same thing getting banned, they'd learn by now...

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Spoiler alert: They want to get banned so they get "I'm a transphobe" points on youtube or wherever.

Eumi said:

What exactly defines the difference and what system could this forum put in place to determine one from the other?

Nobody is being banned for asking why this is bad, they're being banned for coming in already stating it isn't and that if you disagree you're too sensitive or the real bigot or whatever.

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Precisely. People are not getting banned for not finding this offensive. I completely disagree, but it's their right. They are being banned for mocking and dismissing those that do have a problem with it or calling this place North Korea for banning people that are doing that.

Mesoian said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ah...yeah, let me know how talking to bigots trying to fix their behavior is going for you.



It's pretty simple to be sick of people acting like shit for lulz.

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I mean... talking to bigots obviously does work otherwise everyone would still be a bigot.

Homophobia, transphobia etc obviously still has a long way to go, but the difference in 2018 compared to just 20 years ago is gigantic.

The difference wouldn't be so big if talking didn't work.

Clix said:

And you are missing the entire point because you are wanting to be aggressive.

And no, because you are cherry picking. I am on the side of not calling for someone to be fired. That has always been my stance. Just as I took it with regards to ArenaNet. People make mistakes. But you want to make into an argument because you would rather be aggressive, and if you rather be that, then don't engage me because I'm not taking that bait.

And don't talk to me about understand, because as I have mentioned before, yes, as both a minority and an immigrant in this country, I have been on the receiving end. Of both actual good ol fashion racism and from people who were just tone deaf and not malicious.

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You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

Clix said:

And you are missing the entire point because you are wanting to be aggressive.

And no, because you are cherry picking. I am on the side of not calling for someone to be fired. That has always been my stance. Just as I took it with regards to ArenaNet. People make mistakes. But you want to make into an argument because you would rather be aggressive, and if you rather be that, then don't engage me because I'm not taking that bait.

And don't talk to me about understand, because as I have mentioned before, yes, as both a minority and an immigrant in this country, I have been on the receiving end. Of both actual good ol fashion racism and from people who were just tone deaf and not malicious.

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Well so long as you're consiste..

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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Oh.

Yeah. Pull the other one.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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lol It's weird why people all of a sudden feel completely different about this situation that they even do the opposite of what they usually stand for and even lie about it. Can't quite place my finger on it...

KNECHT said:

I'm sure some of those banned aren't transphobic, just aren't capable to understand that this could offend some people and I think this could be solved just talking...

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I agree with you, and I had myself an a experience with someone who didn't understand about a subject regarding minorities and the person was open to learn about it.
But unfortunately some responses here are clearly trying to mock and we got a good number of alt(right) accounts banned.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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Bwahahaha this is perfect.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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oh my god this is too perfect

Pankratous said:

I mean... talking to bigots obviously does work otherwise everyone would still be a bigot.

Homophobia, transphobia etc obviously still has a long way to go, but the difference in 2018 compared to just 20 years ago is gigantic.

The difference wouldn't be so big if talking didn't work.

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I agree to a certain extent, for example the like ex nazi groups doing outreach work. However, it's their responsibility to learn as well. Especially in this case, we've a thread where it's explicitly explained why it's a problem, in the OP, with a mod note in the title, and over almost 30 pages of replies with other explanations. They should read rather than wander in and drop their uninformed take

Flammable D said:

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Wow, real productive there.

Pankratous said:

I mean... talking to bigots obviously does work otherwise everyone would still be a bigot.

Homophobia, transphobia etc obviously still has a long way to go, but the difference in 2018 compared to just 20 years ago is gigantic.

The difference wouldn't be so big if talking didn't work.

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This. The only way to resolve anything is to have an open dialogue; you don't block out the opposition as that solves absolutely nothing. If anything it just breeds more resentment and hatred.

Mesoian said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ah...yeah, let me know how talking to bigots trying to fix their behavior is going for you.

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That's just like saying:

"Wow I know nothing about programming! I will never know nothing! Not ever!" without even trying to change that.

Social change comes by pointing at problems, attitudes, behaviour, etc.

Imagine you walk the streets and you see a man harassing a woman, and you just go "Haha! I cannot change nothing! Society is doooOooOOmed!".

Change comes after action.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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Era needs an hall of fame for things like this.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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Damn, this is just so perfect

Arkanim94 said:

Era needs an hall of fame for things like this.

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I was about to say this

Cry For Mercy said:

Fine.

Let's have a discussion. What merit is there on finding middle ground with people who think transphobia is a joke?

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That's step one to bringing people over to your side. That is if you believe that it's possible to make bigoted people open minded.

Kvasir said:

Wow, real productive there.



This. The only way to resolve anything is to have an open dialog; you don't block out the opposition as that solves absolutely nothing. If anything it just breeds more resentment and hatred.

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This entire thread has been an open dialogue. The idiots who have been banned are the ones who cannot engage.

Gestault said:

Do you think it's fair to characterize the original point as intolerance/persecution needing to be unlawful? The imagery is brought in at least partly because it's a response to talking points of modern neo-Nazis and alt-right white supremacists, that try to twist a society's own protections to insulating their overthrow.

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That's generally where Popper is going with it, but the obvious argument made in response is that by definition a tolerant society cannot be intolerant, because then it was never tolerant in the first place. It's the classic "if you abandon your principles did you ever have them in the first place" question. I personally don't think you can profess to believe in tolerance but agree with the assertion that intolerance to intolerance is acceptable. I think there's merit to the idea that a tolerant society is not the ideal, but then you're getting into arguing that democracy itself is wrongheaded as it only functions when most people are willing to participate in a nonviolent contest. Which is part of where the Nazi Germany comparisons don't work—Weimar Germany was pretty far from what I'd term a "tolerant" society, especially when we're talking about free speech and political expression.

Either way, I don't think it's really applicable to what we're talking about here. Toleration is, well, toleration. It's not respect or special consideration. Political beliefs are not a protected class in the US, and thus doesn't really fit into the schema of toleration outside of certain contexts (like academia.) Moreover in a capitalist society you're never under obligations to a company; if you don't want CPDR's product because you think they've got a questionable or homophobic culture, I think calling it a "tolerance" issue seems wrongheaded. As (from what I've read) no one is actually calling for the tweeter to be imprisoned for anti-trans rhetoric, it doesn't factor in.

Kvasir said:

Wow, real productive there.

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At the risk of the warning I got for this, it's A) an image that's already been posted in this thread, and B) the post is stating that everyone who is upset, and questioning them is being too aggressive and they should just be rational instead and then they'll understand it was a mistake and not harmful. Which is the message of that meme, so I thought it was relevant. I accept that it wasn't very constructive and was inflammatory though, so I won't be posting it again.

P-Switch said:

In case anyone is wondering (I'm interested!), and since it's the first thing mentioned in the mod edited OP....

This transphobic tweet has brought out among restera members:

36 perma bans

59 bans ranging from 3 days - 1 month

7 bans with duration pending

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Holy fuck, 36 perm bans? Dammmn.

This thread is like a microcosm of America.

Pankratous said:

I mean... talking to bigots obviously does work otherwise everyone would still be a bigot.

Homophobia, transphobia etc obviously still has a long way to go, but the difference in 2018 compared to just 20 years ago is gigantic.

The difference wouldn't be so big if talking didn't work.

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Talking absolutely does work. Anecdotally I've seen many people, some over 50 years old (at which point I'd figured people would probably have begun to settle into their ways of thinking for the past 5 decades) shift enormously in their political beliefs. My own father, who has been right wing as long as I can remember (starting from a very young age) is now more left leaning than me, all because he moved to a new place and began integrating and having conversations with a new group of people. I'm not saying everyone is capable of that sort of change, and that it can take a very long time - but exposure to new ideas, and conversations with people you previously didn't agree with absolutely has the power to change minds and ultimately hearts.

Eumi said:

Even if you weren't being naive, what you want would make this place less welcoming for minorities as they would have to post alongside people who despise them.

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Bigots aren't welcome here, but wouldn't you like to have one of those "people who don't understand" defending your rights the next time and gaining a companion in the forum?, maybe is a better person than you though initially.

Interested Observer said:

This thread is like a microcosm of America.

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If only america was as left leaning as this thread...we might not have a cheeto in office.

Flammable D said:

oh my god this is too perfect

I agree to a certain extent, for example the like ex nazi groups doing outreach work. However, it's their responsibility to learn as well. Especially in this case, we've a thread where it's explicitly explained why it's a problem, in the OP, with a mod note in the title, and over almost 30 pages of replies with other explanations. They should read rather than wander in and drop their uninformed take

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To the bolded, I don't know if you meant to imply otherwise but: It is not our responsibility to teach other humans to not kill us. It is theirs and theirs alone. And even if they do change, nothing they do could ever make up for a lifetime of hurting other people.

An abusive person not abusing someone anymore doesn't erase the abuse, and they can't be forgiven on a wide scale like that.

People born into it and learning that its wrong in their early adulthood? Sure. But fully grown 25+ year olds aren't owed any compassion for the harm they've caused.

Pankratous said:

I mean... talking to bigots obviously does work otherwise everyone would still be a bigot.

Homophobia, transphobia etc obviously still has a long way to go, but the difference in 2018 compared to just 20 years ago is gigantic.

The difference wouldn't be so big if talking didn't work.

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Sailent said:

That's just like saying:

"Wow I know nothing about programming! I will never know nothing! Not ever!" without even trying to change that.

Social change comes by pointing at problems, attitudes, behaviour, etc.

Imagine you walk the streets and you see a man harassing a woman, and you just go "Haha! I cannot change nothing! Society is doooOooOOmed!".

Change comes after action.

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Yeah, I walked this back. It's not a fair statement, I just had a little more aggression than necessary coming from another thread.

That being said...this page alone is doing wonders to prove my point. People coming out of the woodworks to show their ass and "ACTUALLY....!!!!!" when it comes to stanning for people being bigots.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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Zacmortar said:

To the bolded, I don't know if you meant to imply otherwise but: It is not our responsibility to teach other humans to not kill us. It is theirs and theirs alone. And even if they do change, nothing they do could ever make up for a lifetime of hurting other people.

An abusive person not abusing someone anymore doesn't erase the abuse, and they can't be forgiven on a wide scale like that.

People born into it and learning that its wrong in their early adulthood? Sure. But fully grown 25+ year olds aren't owed any compassion for the harm they've caused.

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Yeah, trans people (or other minorities) absolutely do not have any responsibility or obligation to teach people that they're wrong.

The people with the capacity to change are an extreme minority, as most bigots like being bigoted

Razmos said:

Bwahahaha this is perfect.

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And I had literally said earliar in this thread I wasn't going to post other users post that contridict them from other threads, but they kept saying it over and over again - waaaaaaaayyyyyy too tempting :p

KNECHT said:

Bigots aren't welcome here, but wouldn't you like to have one of those "people who don't understand" defending your rights the next time and gaining a companion in the forum?, maybe is a better person than you though initially.

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It would be nice, but I also don't think we should rid minorities of one of the few spaces where they can discuss gaming without fear of getting harassed for it.

It is vitally important that people have a space where they can feel safe, and era tries to be that space.

Allowing people to spout hatred on the off chance that maybe a poster might manage to change their mind severely compromises that ideal. There are other places where those dialogues can take place, this is not the sole site on the internet.

rras1994 said:

And I had literally said earliar in this thread I wasn't going to post other users post that contridict them from other threads, but they kept saying it over and over again - waaaaaaaayyyyyy too tempting :p

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They have been repeating the same argument since yesterday, so I'm glad you caught them out.

Here's the thing about the argument that they might not have known it was bad: if someone is so accustomed to that meme that they don't know it's bad, this should not be a job they were hired for to begin with. I mean that in the sense that someone representing your game/company on social media shouldn't spout hurtful things off without knowing what they mean like this, but also that someone who's in an environment where they unquestioningly hear this stuff is a suspect choice for a representative.

Gamers are horrible; the gaming community at large is a cesspool. Every company absolutely has to be aware of that fact at this point. You should want your game's community, something at least vaguely under your control, to be better than that. If you're fine with the person/people who publicly represent your game on your official account being someone who was steeped in that shit without even thinking critically about it, if that's not a thing you consider a negative, you failed to begin with. And similarly, beyond just this case, if you want your account to be seen palling around with this kind of person when they come to you and claim to be your fans, rather than saying they might like your games but they don't represent what you believe in, you failed to begin with.

Eumi said:

It would be nice, but I also don't think we should rid minorities of one of the few spaces where they can discuss gaming without fear of getting harassed for it.

It is vitally important that people have a space where they can feel safe, and era tries to be that space.

Allowing people to spout hatred on the off chance that maybe a poster might manage to change their mind severely compromises that ideal. There are other places where those dialogues can take place, this is not the sole site on the internet.

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As intrinsically linked as they are, I do think there's a difference between a lack of understanding or ignorance, and spewing hatred.

rras1994 said:

You know I can search for posts made by you in those threads, right? Because I remembered you posting before, so I checked - you said she deserved to be fired.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10169917/

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Aaaaand he is gone.

Razor Mom said:

As intrinsically linked as they are, I do think there's a difference between a lack of understanding or ignorance, and spewing hatred.

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A lack of understanding or ignorance would be easily solved by people reading the OP like the title suggests.
If they don't understand after reading that they can ask for clarification, as many users in this thread have done and we have tried to explain to them.

There are others who don't bother reading the OP and come in saying "I don't get why this is an issue" or "The joke wasn't that bad" and we are under no obligation to try and educate them when they can't be arsed doing something as simple as reading the OP.

Razor Mom said:

As intrinsically linked as they are, I do think there's a difference between a lack of understanding or ignorance, and spewing hatred.

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There is, but this conversation started with a complaint about the number of bans, and I haven't seen a single ban that wasn't given to someone spewing hatred. The people who have actually expressed ignorance and asked for clarification and not just defending bigotry, as few as there were, don't seem to have been banned.

rjinaz said:

Spoiler alert: They want to get banned so they get "I'm a transphobe" points on youtube or wherever.



Precisely. People are not getting banned for not finding this offensive. I completely disagree, but it's their right. They are being banned for mocking and dismissing those that do have a problem with it or calling this place North Korea for banning people that are doing that.

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Well of course but you'd think they'd get better material.