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When will the first 'next gen' console arrive?

  • H2 2019

    Votes: 638 14.1%
  • H1 2020

    Votes: 724 16.0%
  • H2 2020

    Votes: 2,813 62.2%
  • H1 2021

    Votes: 141 3.1%
  • H2 2021

    Votes: 208 4.6%

  • Total voters
    4,524
  • Poll closed .

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,918
The Netherlands
8K doesn't have to be the selling point, it could be something else. Maybe just a general ability to play games uncompromised - if a lot of next-gen games let you pick between framerate, resolution and visuals, a mid-gen refresh could let you play everything at 4K60 with the best visuals. 'With The PS5 Pro, You Don't Need To Choose'.

That said, it would need a decent change in process node, and that's hardly guaranteed.

I get your point, but I doubt if we'll see it happening. The current-gen launched relatively underpowered, justifying a refresh, especially with the rise of 4K TVs and content.
Console hardware will rarely bring the "uncompromised" experience, unless we're talking about relatively expensive hardware, and/or developers making their games with that kind of scalability in mind.
I think next-gen will be higher-specced (relatively to current gen) at launch and that we'll ride it through. If BC becomes reality I wouldnt mind the generations being a bit shorter anyway.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
You're probably right - if raytracing is used at all I would expect it to be some very minimal, experimental applications. That said, some of the things we're seeing in upcoming PS4 games would have been considered flat-out impossible on a Jaguar CPU a few years ago, and here they are anyway. I do wonder if Naughty Dog and similar devs might shock us in 2025 or thereabouts.

Can you give any examples of the bolded? As I honestly can't think of any.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,918
The Netherlands
Because it was successful this time around. You have a certain percentage of costumers that will buy your console at launch and then the upgrade some years later. It will also have a positive effect because the gen stays "fresh" and the visuals don't get dated as fast. It gives the consumer more options and you can cater to two different segments of the market.

I think it's pretty clear that the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't selling the same numbers as the default SKUs. I remember reading that PS4 Pro sales are only 1/5th of all the PS4s sold. I don't see that as a "huge succes". Sure, I'm positive it's been profitable for both companies but I wonder if its a sensible businessmodel for the future; it's still cheaper to produce 1 model (economy of scale), not to mention the benefitis of supporting only 1 model. I'dd rather see them learning from this mid-gen refresh and apply some of the technology to the next-gen hardware.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
I do expect PS5 to have at least PS4 BC. I would outright drop the brand without it at this point, and consider it essential. It's pretty guaranteed to be there, tho. It's just something Sony needs to do at this point, and I'm sure they're aware of this. As for Gamepass, I believe Sony is already preparing to turn PS NOW into an equivalent of that service, as rumours suggest it will offer full game downloads.

I also really don't know that exclusives will even matter that much between systems anymore. Speaking to next-gen specifically, I think we're in a different era now with these systems, and I think for many, simply staying in the PS ecosystem could be more appealing than playing exclusives. That's why BC is so important, since it locks people in. People can carry forward all their purchases, all their save games, everything to the next system with improvements, and that coupled with PS's brand power and nostalgia is simply going to make it more appealing than Xbox, no matter what they do next-gen.

I'm not really biased towards one company or another, but I do think this gen was perhaps the most important to win ever, and Sony absolutely demolished MS here. I really do honestly think that all they need to do is release PS5 at $399 with specs roughly in the same ballpark as Scarlett, and with full BC for PS4 games, and they win, regardless of exclusives or other features, Imo. They have the brand power and momentum, and all they have to do is lock in that massive user base they have now.
I have been in gaming long enough and been in business for so long to know that there is nothing that is guaranteed when it comes to the exchange of goods and services for money.

Every business has to change, to adapt to the ever changing demands of the marketplace. I am a huge fan of businesses reaping the rewards of both their hard work and their mistakes; it is something that makes them more malleable to what consumer needs. The Playstation 3 error coupled with Sony losing their market share, this generation with Microsoft losing its market share, the Star Wars Battlefront controversy that made EA beat a hasty retreat. I am for all of these things because they bring the high and mighty down to a level where they are forced to do things the right way.

If there was no backlash, Microsoft would not change, they would not be buying more studios and there would not be that commitment and talk is that they never want to have a weaker console at launch again.

I am gaming predominantly on the Playstation 4 right now because that is where most of my friends are gaming at right now. It is not the biggest consideration that I make when it comes to gaming, and I am not tied down to any one platform if it does not meet the standards for what I am looking for. I am not averse to moving across platforms with relative ease and it is something that every good business should be looking at as opposed to blind loyalty (and it does exist) from its clientèle.

If we are going to have Sony having a game service similar to game pass then I am over the moon for what that means for gaming going forward and that it hopefully means an end to the remasters they have invested so much in this generation. I am also not a fan of the reasoning that exclusives will not matter as much as the ecosystem. Exclusives are what make you stand out; God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us II, Uncharted 4, Ghost of Tsushima are all compelling reasons to own a Playstation 4 console.
Halo, Gears of War, Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon are all compelling reasons to own the Xbox One.

There will always be a legacy attached to what is done in prior generations and that is something that will always get you a foundation to build on. Going forward, content will not be king, but the volume of quality content. There is the underestimating of what quality content can do. Gears of War for Microsoft last generation, Uncharted, Killzone, The Last of Us (Sony), Red Dead Redemption were all new intellectual property that captured the imagination and this generation Sony has that with Horizon Zero Dawn.
Have a gaze at what Nintendo is doing with their first party.......the hardware is great for what it allows users to do, but they are also killing it in the first party front. I pay for Netflix, rarely use it but I am not ditching it for Hulu, Amazon Prime or any other streaming service because of the sheer amount of content, quality content they have.

Sony will get numbers, they always do. So what does Microsoft have to do? Have great hardware, improve on their vastly better services, nail their big name franchises (Halo, Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon, Gears of War and possibly Fable if this is indeed what Playground are working on) and bring some world class new experiences. If they do this they will have a good amount of people waiting to get game pass, and a few on the fence buying their console.
 

Deleted member 22585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,519
EU
I think it's pretty clear that the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't selling the same numbers as the default SKUs. I remember reading that PS4 Pro sales are only 1/5th of all the PS4s sold. I don't see that as a "huge succes". Sure, I'm positive it's been profitable for both companies but I wonder if its a sensible businessmodel for the future; it's still cheaper to produce 1 model (economy of scale), not to mention the benefitis of supporting only 1 model. I'dd rather see them learning from this mid-gen refresh and apply some of the technology to the next-gen hardware.

Maybe it's a personal thing, but my PS3 was getting less and less use towards the end of it's lifecycle. Old hardware, only tiny visual improvements, lot of games running badly. The gen got stale, there was a sentiment of it being too long. In a world where phones get updated every year, even cars get a model refresh after 3 years, I don't think only having one hardware for ~7 years is a viable option anymore.
Mid-gen updates give the platform a new marketing push and generate interest. And even if it's only 1 of 5, that are still millions of devices being sold.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
I think it's pretty clear that the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't selling the same numbers as the default SKUs. I remember reading that PS4 Pro sales are only 1/5th of all the PS4s sold. I don't see that as a "huge succes". Sure, I'm positive it's been profitable for both companies but I wonder if its a sensible businessmodel for the future; it's still cheaper to produce 1 model (economy of scale), not to mention the benefitis of supporting only 1 model. I'dd rather see them learning from this mid-gen refresh and apply some of the technology to the next-gen hardware.

No need to wonder, because the answer is yes. The Pro and X have had a very positive impact on both Sony and Microsoft's console business and I'd be very surprised if mid-gen upgrades weren't the norm from now on. That includes Switch.
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
No need to wonder, because the answer is yes. The Pro and X have had a very positive impact on both Sony and Microsoft's console business and I'd be very surprised if mid-gen upgrades weren't the norm from now on. That includes Switch.
Well Nintendo is ahead of the curve there, if we consider the historical records of Nintendo handhelds. Obviously it is too soon to find out what path Switch will take, but it is probably not a stretch to expect Switch to follow the path of handhelds and get semi-regular upgrades rather than following prior Nintendo consoles. After all, Nintendo's handhelds have been their bread and butter for decades, I would think the Handheld business model is the one Nintendo want to replicate.
 

GameSeeker

Member
Oct 27, 2017
164
An article from Wccftech:

https://wccftech.com/ps5-release-2019-delay/

"The PS5 release is expected by the end of next year, but part shortages might prevent this from happening. At least, that's what analyst Hideki Yasuda from Ace Economic Research Institute believes, as covered in his most recent financial Sony report. The analyst writes that he expects Sony to release the next-gen PlayStation console by the end of 2019, but a possible shortage on electric components might very well delay the release of the PS5."

I've said before that if the folks at Sony are planning to be aggressive with next generation they have to be targeting the Q4 2019-Q1 2020 window. Only if Sony plans to rest on their laurels and lose market share with the PS5 generation, will they target 2020.
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
Can you give any examples of the bolded? As I honestly can't think of any.

I think the initial claim is ailttle exaggerated as the only example I can think of Detroit's voxel based GI, as that was written off at the start of the gen, and removed from UE4 as a result.

Personally, I do think TLOU2 reaches a visual quality level that I wasn't expecting from this gen at all.
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
An article from Wccftech:

https://wccftech.com/ps5-release-2019-delay/

"The PS5 release is expected by the end of next year, but part shortages might prevent this from happening. At least, that's what analyst Hideki Yasuda from Ace Economic Research Institute believes, as covered in his most recent financial Sony report. The analyst writes that he expects Sony to release the next-gen PlayStation console by the end of 2019, but a possible shortage on electric components might very well delay the release of the PS5."

I've said before that if the folks at Sony are planning to be aggressive with next generation they have to be targeting the Q4 2019-Q1 2020 window. Only if Sony plans to rest on their laurels and lose market share with the PS5 generation, will they target 2020.

This came up on the forum over the weekend. On a scale of 0 to 10 Michael Patchers, how reliable / accurate is Hideki Yasuda, with 0 being reliable and 10 being "Nintendo is doomed"?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Can you give any examples of the bolded? As I honestly can't think of any.

One example would be the crazy animations seen in the TLOU2 demo that had quite a few people literally saying "It's obviously fake/staged/CGI" until it was confirmed that it was in fact real-time footage using the new motion matching technology, and people trying to claim that the Ghost of Tsushima demo was secretly PS5 footage. But mostly it's just an overall atmosphere I get from people discussing these games, that they "honestly never thought underpowered console hardware could run that". Vague, I know. I still think you're probably right on the ray-tracing front, but part of me still wonders if some devs will manage to shock us again.

That, or they manage to do some ray-tracing but only by running their game at 1080p30.

I think the initial claim is ailttle exaggerated as the only example I can think of Detroit's voxel based GI, as that was written off at the start of the gen, and removed from UE4 as a result.

Personally, I do think TLOU2 reaches a visual quality level that I wasn't expecting from this gen at all.

Didn't actually know about this, so thanks. I really need to play Detroit soon.
 
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Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Next gen will normalise mid-gen consoles as something that exist purely for business reasons - a reason to sell a more expensive console that plays existing games at higher resolution/framerate/bling bling halfway through a console lifecycle.

Sure, it will only sell 1/4th or 1/5th of the actual base console. But if 20-25% of your sales are of a higher profit margin with (presumably) minimal effort - why wouldn't you go for it?

While there is still one question to answer - "does introducing mid-gen dampen the launch of next-gen consoles" - my observation looking at PS4/XB1 sales and how Pro/X ultimately didn't matter much in terms of product narrative/marketing - is that mid-gen consoles do not hurt the base console sales whatsoever. If anything, it uplifts it by 10-15% since it creates internal demand from the small hardcore base who would buy an upgraded model even though they own the base model.

This gen we've had PS4 Pro and XB1X sold as the HDR 4K machine broadly speaking. Next gen you'll see what mid-gen is - and truly was from day one, since there will be no spec-or-tech justification. A reason to sell you more expensive hardware that plays the same games.
 

Deleted member 22585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,519
EU
Next gen will normalise mid-gen consoles as something that exist purely for business reasons - a reason to sell a more expensive console that plays existing games at higher resolution/framerate/bling bling halfway through a console lifecycle.

Sure, it will only sell 1/4th or 1/5th of the actual base console. But if 20-25% of your sales are of a higher profit margin with (presumably) minimal effort - why wouldn't you go for it?

While there is still one question to answer - "does introducing mid-gen dampen the launch of next-gen consoles" - my observation looking at PS4/XB1 sales and how Pro/X ultimately didn't matter much in terms of product narrative/marketing - is that mid-gen consoles do not hurt the base console sales whatsoever. If anything, it uplifts it by 10-15% since it creates internal demand from the small hardcore base who would buy an upgraded model even though they own the base model.

This gen we've had PS4 Pro and XB1X sold as the HDR 4K machine broadly speaking. Next gen you'll see what mid-gen is - and truly was from day one, since there will be no spec-or-tech justification. A reason to sell you more expensive hardware that plays the same games.

It's not only that. As PC gaming became more approachable and remains quiet popular, console manufacturers want to stay relevant for this target group and try to stop the mid - late gen migration to the PC as the launch hardware gets old and struggles to keep up. Like we saw at the end of the PS360 cycle.

MS especially. They will have a mid gen console 100% because their games are also playable on PC and they need a console out there that is a cheaper alternative but still produces nice visuals. No way they will have 4-7 year old hardware that struggles to play their games while cheap PCs can handle them significantly better.

I know it might not be about a huge chunk of the consumer base. But they know about the word of mouth as well as the influence and importance of the enthusiasts, that's why they try to cater to them as well.
 

Blanquito

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,168
Nightengale, you're making me jump back onto the 2019 train... after I had pretty much lost all hope
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I think sony will use shock and awe tactics.
They will have cerny do a speech about how amazing the PS5 is without being carried away like in the PS3 days, but I think they will have some questionable tech demos (have we seen visuals on PS4 as good as that quantic dream sorcerer demo, deep down and that ff agni demo in real time?)

Plus there political style gamer first slogans like

"For the gamers"

"Greatness awaits"

I wonder what the slogans will be for PS5?

"Gamers unite"

"Greatness is here"
 
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Sid

Banned
Mar 28, 2018
3,755
I think sony will use shock and awe tactics.
They will have cerny do a speech about how amazing the PS5 is without being carried away like in the PS3 days, but I think they will have some questionable tech demos (have we seen visuals on PS4 as good as that quantic dream sorcerer demo, in real time?)

Plus there political style gamer first slogans like

"For the gamers"

"Greatness awaits"

I wonder what the slogans will be for PS5?

"Gamers unite"

"Greatness is here"
Checkerboarding 4 lyfe!
 

Deleted member 22585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,519
EU
I think sony will use shock and awe tactics.
They will have cerny do a speech about how amazing the PS5 is without being carried away like in the PS3 days, but I think they will have some questionable tech demos (have we seen visuals on PS4 as good as that quantic dream sorcerer demo, deep down and that ff agni demo in real time?)

Plus there political style gamer first slogans like

"For the gamers"

"Greatness awaits"

I wonder what the slogans will be for PS5?

"Gamers unite"

"Greatness is here"

Yeah it's safe to say that they will show unrealistic demos. Kinda sad, but we really have to keep our expectations in check.

After all the huge PSN numbers, their new slogan will be:

"For the payers."
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I think the initial claim is ailttle exaggerated as the only example I can think of Detroit's voxel based GI, as that was written off at the start of the gen, and removed from UE4 as a result.

Personally, I do think TLOU2 reaches a visual quality level that I wasn't expecting from this gen at all.

Sure, but the original poster specifically mentioned things the Jaguar CPU wasn't expected to handle, which GI methods don't apply to since GI isn't really impacted by the CPU.

One example would be the crazy animations seen in the TLOU2 demo that had quite a few people literally saying "It's obviously fake/staged/CGI" until it was confirmed that it was in fact real-time footage using the new motion matching technology, and people trying to claim that the Ghost of Tsushima demo was secretly PS5 footage. But mostly it's just an overall atmosphere I get from people discussing these games, that they "honestly never thought underpowered console hardware could run that". Vague, I know. I still think you're probably right on the ray-tracing front, but part of me still wonders if some devs will manage to shock us again.

That, or they manage to do some ray-tracing but only by running their game at 1080p30.

I think that every gen we've seen games from first parties and specific 3rd party studios that really push the technological envelope.

It's less about the hardware and more about the general cycle of in-house studio tech. development that occurs over the course of a gen for studios with the time and talent to implement state-of-the-art technologies into their games/engines.

The quality of games at the beginning, middle and end of each gen are bafflingly stark in contrast. I wouldn't say this gen has really diverged from that pattern.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I dont know why people thought TLOU2 animation was fake, TLOU2 looks like an evolution from uncharted 4.
Uncharted 4 still has the best animation this gen.

200w.webp


And if people thought Ghosts was PS5 then they must think god of war or gears 5 is next gen too, because on a technical level ghosts is not doing anything better overall.
I mean somone may say god of war dont have grass and leaves like ghosts but ghosts does not have particle effects like GOW.
In terms of lighting quality, IQ, polycount and texture quality ghosts is in line with this gen.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
I dont know why people thought TLOU2 animation was fake, TLOU2 looks like an evolution from uncharted 4.
Uncharted 4 still has the best animation this gen.

200w.webp


And if people thought Ghosts was PS5 then they must think god of war or gears 5 is next gen too, because on a technical level ghosts is not doing anything better overall.
I mean somone may say god of war dont have grass and leaves like ghosts but ghosts does not have particle effects like GOW.
In terms of lighting quality, IQ, polycount and texture quality ghosts is in line with this gen.

That Drake facial animation is in a specifically tuned cutscene, what really shocked people (or at least me) was TLOU2's stunningly lifelike and expressive enemies. Not major central characters who would of course have extra work put into their animations, but just your standard mooks, looking like real people fighting for their lives, expressions shifting mid-fight in confronting and realistic ways.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
I've been a 2019 believer since.. whenever I decided to put a flag in predicting it - for the reasons below:

1. The 'length' of the generation. Anecdotally speaking - on the first-party side it was definitely seen that the previous gen was too long. It was 7 years for the PS3->PS4. A PS4->PS5 in 2019 would be 6 years.
2. Symmetry. With PS4 in 2013, PS4 Pro in 2016, and PS5 in 2019, it pegs the 'mid-gen' squarely in the exact middle of the base model and next-gen model, and that sets a good timing precedent for future audiences.
3. The 'cross-gen' reality. Early PS4/XB1 was wrought with many, many games that were available for both generation of consoles, since AAA games are expensive and most 3rd-party publishers will not risk releasing a game strictly for the highest spec consoles. That means even if PS5 and XB2 are released in 2019, there'll be approximately a 2-year maturation period as games transition from cross-gen to next-gen. IMO, cross-gen actually incentives that next-gen consoles are released sooner than later - since it means that the current-gen console base would still be relatively healthy while next-gen transition are going on.
4. Sony's lack of announcements this E3. Say what you want about Sony - they've never been gun-shy at revealing games early. While it's true that TLOU2, GOT and DS could very well be 2020 games, there's actually enough empty space in the 2019-2020 space of games that they could afford one or two announcements but there was none of it even at their biggest stage of the year. IMO, that means that they were not able to - since any game that isn't announced at this point ( AAA-level ) are PS5 only games.
5. The 'success' of the PS4. Unlike some of you, I believe that the success of the PS4 is all the more reason to accelerate the release of the PS5. I believe that the most rational and ideal business execution of the PS5 is not to wait until PS4 is sunsetting in it final year, but to release in the first year of its final 3-years. That way, PS5 will benefit from a relatively mature 2-year cross-gen period where PS4 is still a healthy console rather than one-year good and one-year sluggish. And I definitely think that 2019 will be "Year One" of PS4's final 3 years of significant software support.
6. I don't believe that next-gen console are defined by leaps in hardware technology - but in the best business timing that matches with a significant enough improvement to be able to sell the next flagship box. You need both - and while 2019 might not necessarily be the best timing from a pure technology standpoint, it'll be enough imo - for something that is 8-10x more powerful than base PS4. Enough to sell a generational leap.
7. MID-GEN. DOES. NOT. EXTEND. THE. LENGTH. OF. A. CONSOLE. GENERATION.
I feel that most of these are rationalizing back from a 2019 launch date rather than arguing for it. The crux of the matter comes to financials and market share. Financials will no doubt be better launching in 2020 given the chance for maturity and higher margins. The only drawback is ceding marketshare compared to MS.

Sony is a public company beholden to share holders. Winning hearts and minds is important, but only insofar as it drives market share and average consumer spending. Right now spending is very healthy thanks to network spend, and that won't magically go away anytime soon. Hardware margin is fantastic thanks to a $300 MSRP that hasn't budged in years. They need to release hardware to not lose the market, rather than to gain.
 
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Feb 10, 2018
17,534
That Drake facial animation is in a specifically tuned cutscene, what really shocked people (or at least me) was TLOU2's stunningly lifelike and expressive enemies. Not major central characters who would of course have extra work put into their animations, but just your standard mooks, looking like real people fighting for their lives, expressions shifting mid-fight in confronting and realistic ways.

Its not a cutscene its realtime and you have some control.
TLOU2 is the next evolution , by having that detailed facial expressions in all enemies
Not surprising at all, unless people expected ND to make no progress.

Is it big progress? Yes. But its not unrealistic at all.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I feel that most of these are rationalizing back from a 2019 launch date rather than arguing for it. The crux of the matter comes to financials and market share. Financials will no doubt be better launching in 2020 given the chance for maturity and higher margins. The only drawback is ceding marketshare compared to MS.

Sony is a public company beholden to share holders. Winning hearts and minds is important, but only insofar as it drives market share and average consumer spending. Right now spending is very healthy thanks to network spend, and that won't magically go away anytime soon. Hardware margin is fantastic thanks to a $300 MSRP that hasn't budged in years. They need to release hardware to not lose the market, rather than to gain.

Thank you :-)
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Its not a cutscene its realtime and you have some control.
TLOU2 is the next evolution , by having that detailed facial expressions in all enemies
Not surprising at all, unless people expected ND to make no progress.

Is it big progress? Yes. But its not unrealistic at all.

Every cutscene in Uncharted 4 is real-time, and this is basically a cutscene. You have some limited control, but it is a specifically-directed scene with Drake's face in full view, with specific animations tailor-made for it and for the main character of the game. That was impressive but not new. Bringing that sort of animation to basic enemies in dynamic fights is a huge leap. I never expected it and I doubt anyone else did either - I sure as hell never saw anyone predicting that sort of leap.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Every cutscene in Uncharted 4 is real-time, and this is basically a cutscene. You have some limited control, but it is a specifically-directed scene with Drake's face in full view, with specific animations tailor-made for it and for the main character of the game. That was impressive but not new. Bringing that sort of animation to basic enemies in dynamic fights is a huge leap. I never expected it and I doubt anyone else did either - I sure as hell never saw anyone predicting that sort of leap.

After rewatching, it was a bit surprising how big an improvement it was, but cgi, fake, nah.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
After rewatching, it was a bit surprising how big an improvement it was, but cgi, fake, nah.

Oh, I didn't think it was fake or CGI either. I'm just taking about various reactions that I saw.

It really looks amazing though, right? Shame they can't just port that shit back into Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy. I actually wonder if remastering or patching games with motion matching could actually happen, only because what I heard about the process makes it sound very automatic.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Oh, I didn't think it was fake or CGI either. I'm just taking about various reactions that I saw.

It really looks amazing though, right? Shame they can't just port that shit back into Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy. I actually wonder if remastering or patching games with motion matching could actually happen, only because what I heard about the process makes it sound very automatic.

Yeah it looks incredible, a bigger improvement over UC4 then I remember.
Looking foward to playing it.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Just watched Nvidia's Gamescom presentation. It's amazing how many developers they're already getting to add RT. Battlefield V looked very impressive. I'll say it again, but it could be a big differentiator for MS if they could get an Nvidia part. They're making more headway with developer adoption than I would have expected.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
Just watched Nvidia's Gamescom presentation. It's amazing how many developers they're already getting to add RT. Battlefield V looked very impressive. I'll say it again, but it could be a big differentiator for MS if they could get an Nvidia part. They're making more headway with developer adoption than I would have expected.

Wouldn't we have got some rumours or hints about such a big change by now, though?
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,686
Just watched Nvidia's Gamescom presentation. It's amazing how many developers they're already getting to add RT. Battlefield V looked very impressive. I'll say it again, but it could be a big differentiator for MS if they could get an Nvidia part. They're making more headway with developer adoption than I would have expected.
yeah but it would make the xbox scarlet cost like $700 the cheapeest gpu, and yes I know ms wouldnt be paying anywhare near this, with ray tracing is $499.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
I see folks talking about Ray Tracing based on the Nvidia conference. While I don't expect it for PS5/Xbox Next, what're the odds that we get mid-gen refreshes that focus on that tech? Knowing next to nothing about it, I was hoping for some input as to the plausibility there. Surely 8K won't be anywhere near feasible to push by mid gen.

I think sony will use shock and awe tactics.
They will have cerny do a speech about how amazing the PS5 is without being carried away like in the PS3 days, but I think they will have some questionable tech demos (have we seen visuals on PS4 as good as that quantic dream sorcerer demo, deep down and that ff agni demo in real time?)

Plus there political style gamer first slogans like

"For the gamers"

"Greatness awaits"

I wonder what the slogans will be for PS5?

"Gamers unite"

"Greatness is here"

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Feb 10, 2018
17,534
If a RTX 2070 can do Ray traced reflections wouldent next gen be able to as well?

Next gen should be in the same power bracket of a RTX2070.
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,686
If a RTX 2070 can do Ray traced reflections wouldent next gen be able to as well?

Next gen should be in the same power bracket of a RTX2070.
no becouse raytracing is being done on custum built hardware. this isnt a case of brute force. if amd doesnt build their own version, they cant do ray tracing no matter how strong navi is.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
if fall 2020, they wouldnt have to nail down specs til mid next year. that beig said, its more likely than not amd will be handling graphics for both.

I would say closer to the end of this year so ~2 years. Think back to Scorpio being announced with specs and motherboard renders 18 months out that didn't change. I'm sure Microsoft/AMD had "locked down" specs 6 months before that.
 

New Fang

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,542
I think it's pretty clear that the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't selling the same numbers as the default SKUs. I remember reading that PS4 Pro sales are only 1/5th of all the PS4s sold. I don't see that as a "huge succes". Sure, I'm positive it's been profitable for both companies but I wonder if its a sensible businessmodel for the future; it's still cheaper to produce 1 model (economy of scale), not to mention the benefitis of supporting only 1 model. I'dd rather see them learning from this mid-gen refresh and apply some of the technology to the next-gen hardware.
The entire point of the higher end sku is to give the tech savvy consumer an option to upgrade mid gen. Neither Sony or Microsoft were under any illusions that the high end model was going to be a huge portion of future hardware sales.

It's here the help satiate that audience that might be tempted to go the PC route, etc, because they just want more powerful tech.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
no becouse raytracing is being done on custum built hardware. this isnt a case of brute force. if amd doesnt build their own version, they cant do ray tracing no matter how strong navi is.

It would be odd if AMD/SONY/MS did not implement RT tech.
I mean if the tech can be put into a 2018 $499 graphics card, it will be possible to put it in a 2020 $399/499 console
 

CrypticSlayer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
647
I have no idea if it'll end up happening but Spencer dropped a lot of hints at E3. One of the hypotheticals was on his mixer interview where he mentioned ray tracing for what a next gen Xbox could have. It'll be interesting to see how much of what he mentioned comes to fruition.
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,686
I have no idea if it'll end up happening but Spencer dropped a lot of hints at E3. One of the hypotheticals was on his mixer interview where he mentioned ray tracing for what a next gen Xbox could have. It'll be interesting to see how much of what he mentioned comes to fruition.
would need to see the intervew, but that might imply a vender switch

It would be odd if AMD/SONY/MS did not implement RT tech.
I mean if the tech can be put into a 2018 $499 graphics card, it will be possible to put it in a 2020 $399/499 console
if amd was working on ray tracing tech for navi, something would have leaked by now though.
 

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
So wait... I haven't followed Ray Tracing at all but folks are making it sound like only Nvidia has been working on it thus far?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
I have no idea if it'll end up happening but Spencer dropped a lot of hints at E3. One of the hypotheticals was on his mixer interview where he mentioned ray tracing for what a next gen Xbox could have. It'll be interesting to see how much of what he mentioned comes to fruition.
Was this mixer exclusive?

Phil hasn't been shy about RT before

I think all AMD is most likely, but I'm positing this scenario because I think Phil thinks you build a platform from the enthusiast out, and that's the angle they're targeting now by being first to mention 1440p support, VRR, and other emerging features that only enthusiasts care about. Including RT hardware would be a way to win the enthusiasts over and hope they become brand ambassadors to build marketshare.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
if amd was working on ray tracing te ch for navi, something would have leaked by now though.

You'd think they would want to do a little leak about such tech to get the hype going.....(only half serious)

One rumour we do have is Navi is primarily designed for Sony/PS5 which just might explain why so few details have been released/leaked (NDAs). For an architecture that is going to spawn retail PC GPUs next year it seems to be the only explanation I can think of. The only other thing it could be is AMD are way behind schedule.