ContraPoints - Incels

Zhukov · Aug 19, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
So what

So that's why I said I think they're mostly a danger to themselves. Which is the statement that the person I was responding to was taking issue with.

excelsiorlef said:
I think their misogyny and violence against women is not caused by mental illness.

Any other issues they may have is secondary to that.

Wow. You are amazing at dodging questions. I feel like I'm talking to Kellyanne Conway here.

Do you think incels are mentally ill or mentally healthy? Does the behavior of incels strike you as the behaviour of mentally healthy individuals?

Turin · Aug 19, 2018

The only way these people could change is if something shatters, or at least damages, their world view internally and causes them to ask uncomfortable questions. There's no way to know what's going to do that for each individual. Everyone's different. Only thing that can be done is to make it harder for them to find eachother.

Therapy and meds would likely only help them function better. Not become a less hateful person.

excelsiorlef · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
So that's why I said I think they're mostly a danger to themselves. Which is the statement that the person I was responding to was taking issue with.

Wow. You are amazing at dodging questions. I feel like I'm talking to Kellyanne Conway here.

Do you think incels are mentally ill or mentally healthy? Does the behavior of incels strike you as the behaviour of mentally healthy individuals?

I could say the same thing about you

The elements that make them dangerous, misogynistic and a terrorist group are not caused by mental illness

Any mental health issues they do have is secondary and at that point I couldn't care less.

I think it is an insult and a negative stereotype to/of those who suffer from mental illness and aren't violent and misogynistic to act like incels are a quote unquote "mental health issue"

RedMercury · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Do you think incels are mentally ill or mentally healthy? Does the behavior of incels strike you as the behaviour of mentally healthy individuals?

"Incel" is not a mental illness or diagnosis.

Zhukov · Aug 19, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
I could say the same thing about you

The only question you asked me was "so what?" I addressed it. So no, you could not say the same thing about me. Not with any degree of accuracy anyway.

If you have any other questions, ask away, I shall answer to the best of my knowledge.

You, uh... still didn't answer mine though. It's a pretty straightforward one. Do you think incels are mentally ill or mentally healthy? Does their behaviour strike you as the behaviour of mentally healthy individuals?

The elements that make them dangerous, misogynistic and a terrorist group are not caused by mental illness

Probably not? I don't really know how someone ends up sliding down so far down that rabbit hole, so I can't say with any degree of certainty.

Any mental health issues they do have is secondary and at that point I couldn't care less.

Ok? Cool? You're free to rank their issues however you please.

RedMercury · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
I can't say with any degree of certainty

Exactly, you aren't a doctor, your assertion that they are mentally ill has no bearing except to provide an excuse for their behavior. Given the chance to hold them accountable or to give them an excuse, you choose the latter.

excelsiorlef · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Probably not? I don't really know how someone ends up sliding down so far down that rabbit hole, so I can't say with any degree of certainty.

Nothing else matters when talking about incels than their misogyny and desire to commit violence against women.

It's clear to me you want to define incels as mentally ill. Largely I imagine so you can claim laughing at them is abelism or shameful.

But whatever mental illness they may have is not what causes them to be incels and in the end, that's all that matters.

Rinse Bassfunk · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
You, uh... still didn't answer mine though. It's a pretty straightforward one. Do you think incels are mentally ill or mentally healthy? Does their behaviour strike you as the behaviour of mentally healthy individuals?
.

In fairness mate, that's not a very good question, it's not really binary like that - how would you define either?

nillansan · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Oh? How many mass murderers?

I'd bet everything I own that it's a tiny number compared to how many have killed themselves.

Downplaying mass murders, what the fuck is wrong with you.

Deleted member 32561 · Aug 19, 2018

I wonder how many people itt actually watched the video... Thread seems to have become less a discussion of the video and more a general discussion of incels.

It's great by the by, I really suggest y'all watch it.

Deleted member 15440 · Aug 19, 2018

categorizing groups of bigots as mentally ill is a problem because it lets us sort of slide past the real issue. plenty of mentally healthy people are misogynist or racist or bigoted in any number of different ways.

that said i think the specific set of behaviors that make up the incel mindset definitely include some extremely unhealthy things, mainly the propensity for self-harm. discussing that doesn't take anything away from the danger they present to women.

personally i think the real solution is a combination of therapeutic intervention where possible, the disruption of organized communities in incel spaces, and ultimately the elimination of patriarchy/capitalism since those are the root of so many real issues that lead to anti-female projection.

Alwayscrazybacon · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Oh? How many mass murderers?

I'd bet everything I own that it's a tiny number compared to how many have killed themselves.

How many have killed themselves by being egged-on by others? Those guys that pushed suicide to them are mass murderers by proxy.

Zhukov · Aug 19, 2018

RedMercury said:
"Incel" is not a mental illness or diagnosis.

Yeah, no shit. Never suggested that it was.

RedMercury said:
Exactly, you aren't a doctor, your assertion that they are mentally ill has no bearing except to provide an excuse for their behavior. Given the chance to hold them accountable or to give them an excuse, you choose the latter.

Nah. I didn't use it as any such thing. I merely included it in a description of them. As far as I can tell that description is accurate,

You're projecting the rest on to me. I'd rather you didn't, it's kinda tiresome, but I can't stop you.

excelsiorlef said:
It's clear to me you want to define incels as mentally ill. Largely I imagine so you can claim laughing at them is abelism.

Alright, that made me laugh.

Please quote me where I said anything whatsoever about "abelism".

(I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever typed or spoken the word in my entire life, so good luck.)

(Also, I am furiously fighting the temptation to say something snarky about that spelling. This line is the compromise I have reached. You're welcome.)

I merely included "mentally ill" in a description of incels. As far as I can tell, that description is accurate.

The rest? That's all you projecting things I never said.

Still dodging my question I see. Oh well. At this point I've forgotten why I was even asking and I can't be bothering reading back over this inanity to remind myself. Well done Kellyanne.

nillansan said:
Downplaying mass murders, what the fuck is wrong with you.

Does a contrarian streak and not knowing when to move on from internet arguments count as things wrong with me? Because, yeah... those are definitely contenders.

weemadarthur · Aug 19, 2018

aeolist said:
discussing that doesn't take anything away from the danger they present to women.

The order in which the two points are discussed does show the priority of the discusser.

That is, if the mental health of the abuser is given priority over that of the abused, it is clear to observers where the person talking stands on the relative importance of the two questions.

Vish · Aug 19, 2018

Incels are normal people with a nasty catch.

RedMercury · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
You're projecting the rest on to me. I'd rather you didn't, it's kinda tiresome, but I can't stop you.

Zhukov said:
I can't be bothering reading back over this inanity

Zhukov said:
Well done Kellyanne.

This dude lol

Zhukov said:
Please quote me where I said anything whatsoever about "abelism".

She merely included it in a description of you. As far as I can tell, that description is accurate.

You're walking back what you said because multiple people disagreed with you.

weemadarthur said:
That is, if the mental health of the abuser is given priority over that of the abused, it is clear to observers where the person talking stands on the relative importance of the two questions.

Well said

excelsiorlef · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Alright, that made me laugh.

Please quote me where I said anything whatsoever about "abelism".

(I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever typed or spoken the word in my entire life, so good luck.)

(Also, I am furiously fighting the temptation to say something snarky about that spelling. This line is the compromise I have reached. You're welcome.)

I merely included "mentally ill" in a description of incels. As far as I can tell, that description is accurate.

The rest? That's all you projecting things I never said.

Still dodging my question I see. Oh well. At this point I've forgotten why I was even asking and I can't be bothering reading back over this inanity to remind myself. Well done Kellyanne.

I've answered like several times.

Your foray into this thread was to shake your first and express your anger at the people laughing at the "hateful, mentally ill losers"

If your goal wasn't to frame laughing at them as something that is mean to incels...

Combine that and the level of desire you have for me to say they're mentally ill it comes off like you're crafting a narrative that laughing at them is bad because they're mentally ill. Hence why I reframed it as arguing that it is ableist

If that was not your intention that's how it comes across and not just to me either.

Also I'd note the only description of incels you've presented was when you were demonstrating what those who laugh at them call them while denouncing them for laughing.

As such it was not, and still isn't very clear, what you think they are, beyond mentally ill and not dangerous to women

Absent · Aug 19, 2018

efyu_lemonardo said:
Could you expand on this point? Or direct me to a resource that does so?

By superiority complex are you referring to their claim that "it's not fair that they're lonely?".
Because at least to me, part of my internal reaction to that was just "no one ever claimed life was fair", and looking for someone to blame is just scapegoating - in this case an extremely sexist variety.

Sorry for the late reply, was out.

Dyno beat me to it:

Dyno said:
Incel points break down to superiority in really weird ways. The way they typically look down on another man who's not a hugely unlikeable dick like them is to tell themselves they're the better person because they haven't slept around. Often they'll extend religion to it and claim to be purer.

This same extension goes to women where they consider a woman who's slept with... Well anyone but them as a whore (really sorry using this word btw just trying to explain the views I've heard them parrot). Theyll claim that a woman who's had 3 or 4 partners is no longer marriage material. Purity comes into it repeatedly.

Of course all of this is blame shifting. If a Girl who fucked 20 guys actually gave them the offer of intimacy we all know they'd pounce. All of their bullshit is an extension of their unwillingness to acknowledge their own flaws and actually do any fucking thing about it. It's all a facade of 'purity' but what they really want is women to change and consider their mysoginist asses of any worth because theyd rather whine all day about how hard up they are and expect the world to change for them.

Essentially what they all think they're looking for is their female Knight in shining armor, except they expect theirs to come in a chastity belt having waited their whole life to meet this random lonely dude nobody knew existed because they refused to accept responsibility and go actually meet girls. They expect this issue to solve itself.

It's all what they think is a clever way of going around being a mysoginistic bastard but they ain't sly.

Great post.

dosh · Aug 19, 2018

aeolist said:
the disruption of organized communities in incel spaces,

Especially since incels probably don't have the organisational means to generate entire platforms devoted to their views out of thin air (or at least platforms with as wide a reach as Reddit).

and ultimately the elimination of patriarchy/capitalism since those are the root of so many real issues that lead to anti-female projection.

I highly doubt I'll witness that during my lifetime, but I agree that everything else would come crumbling right after.

Deleted member 9035 · Aug 19, 2018

Dyno said:
Incel points break down to superiority in really weird ways. The way they typically look down on another man who's not a hugely unlikeable dick like them is to tell themselves they're the better person because they haven't slept around. Often they'll extend religion to it and claim to be purer.

This same extension goes to women where they consider a woman who's slept with... Well anyone but them as a whore (really sorry using this word btw just trying to explain the views I've heard them parrot). Theyll claim that a woman who's had 3 or 4 partners is no longer marriage material. Purity comes into it repeatedly.

Of course all of this is blame shifting. If a Girl who fucked 20 guys actually gave them the offer of intimacy we all know they'd pounce. All of their bullshit is an extension of their unwillingness to acknowledge their own flaws and actually do any fucking thing about it. It's all a facade of 'purity' but what they really want is women to change and consider their mysoginist asses of any worth because theyd rather whine all day about how hard up they are and expect the world to change for them.

Essentially what they all think they're looking for is their female Knight in shining armor, except they expect theirs to come in a chastity belt having waited their whole life to meet this random lonely dude nobody knew existed because they refused to accept responsibility and go actually meet girls. They expect this issue to solve itself.

It's all what they think is a clever way of going around being a mysoginistic bastard but they ain't sly.

Wow. Yeah those points are just complete garbage. Thank you for the in depth reply.

Absent said:
Sorry for the late reply, was out.

Dyno beat me to it:

Great post.

Nothing to apologize for. I've gotten many insightful replies from this thread.

Heckler456 · Aug 19, 2018

Incredible video, thanks for putting me on to this channel. She gives some very keen insights. I especially liked how she found some commonality between a subsection of incels and her personal experiences with regard to her transition and everything surrounding it. I can only imagine how difficult that is to do, but it's a necessary step to take to really understand what's at the core of this problem.

On an unrelated note, her production's pretty fucking incredible too.

aeolist said:
categorizing groups of bigots as mentally ill is a problem because it lets us sort of slide past the real issue. plenty of mentally healthy people are misogynist or racist or bigoted in any number of different ways.

that said i think the specific set of behaviors that make up the incel mindset definitely include some extremely unhealthy things, mainly the propensity for self-harm. discussing that doesn't take anything away from the danger they present to women.

personally i think the real solution is a combination of therapeutic intervention where possible, the disruption of organized communities in incel spaces, and ultimately the elimination of patriarchy/capitalism since those are the root of so many real issues that lead to anti-female projection.

Disallowing "categorizing groups of bigots as mentally ill", as you put it, presupposes that it's impossible for communities to form surrounding a common delusion or some symptom of mental illness. I think that in this day and age, with everyone and everything being interconnected, it should be quite easy to imagine something like that springing up.

What's actually dangerous, imo, is painting them all as just bigots that can't change, and that you can't help change, which is something I've seen shared on here quite a bit. Those people that violently hate women, well, I don't wanna dirty my hands on them. But I think there is a much larger portion of people like this guy, whose thread I just read on /r/loseit. Those are the kinds of people I think that deserve help.

Zhukov · Aug 19, 2018

RedMercury said:
She merely included it in a description of you. As far as I can tell, that description is accurate.

She... described me as abelism?

No. No, she... didn't. Your attempt at wordplay is adorable.

The reading comprehension on display here is off the fucking charts. Good lord.

excelsiorlef said:
Your foray into this thread was to shake your first and express your anger at the people laughing at the hateful, mentally ill losers

Nah. My original post was to say that I dislike it when people do grandstanding condemnations without trying to understand the thing they're condemning and to commend Contrapoints for not going that route.

Okay, this charming exchange has officially entered what I like to call the eating-its-own-tail phase where we start arguing about what was or wasn't said in previous posts. That's my signal to peace out.

weemadarthur · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Does a contrarian streak and not knowing when to move on from internet arguments count as things wrong with me? Because, yeah... those are definitely contenders.

For other people who all seem to do this, since this guy is currently banned:

One can find pointless internet arguments for the sake of pure entertainment in many places on this very website. The Forum-Mafia group welcomes new arguers, and you even earn points they track on a spreadsheet! There are multiple Star Trek OTs for defending the "least-loved" captain as the really-best-captain. There's always another Last Jedi thread.

So why, are y'all always found in topics about womens issues, downplaying their severity? One might think it's because you really aren't playing devil's advocate, but instead posting your real opinions under the guise of pretense. It's not much of a guise.

Goat Mimicry · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
Alright, that made me laugh.

Please quote me where I said anything whatsoever about "abelism".

(I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever typed or spoken the word in my entire life, so good luck.)

(Also, I am furiously fighting the temptation to say something snarky about that spelling. This line is the compromise I have reached. You're welcome.)

I merely included "mentally ill" in a description of incels. As far as I can tell, that description is accurate.

The rest? That's all you projecting things I never said.

Still dodging my question I see. Oh well. At this point I've forgotten why I was even asking and I can't be bothering reading back over this inanity to remind myself. Well done Kellyanne.

Connect the dots here:

You:
"It's a nice change to see someone actually trying to comprehend the subject rather than skipping straight to, "Haha let's all laugh at the hateful, miserable, mentally ill, suicidal losers! Gosh I'm so progressive!"
"Do you think incels are mentally ill or mentally healthy? Does their behaviour strike you as the behaviour of mentally healthy individuals?"

Her:
"It's clear to me you want to define incels as mentally ill. Largely I imagine so you can claim laughing at them is abelism or shameful."

If you still can't do it, the benefit of the doubt people have given you by assuming you're not a dumbass was undeserved.

RedMercury · Aug 19, 2018

Zhukov said:
No. No, she... didn't. Your attempt at wordplay is adorable.

The reading comprehension on display here is off the fucking charts. Good lord.

You should really check that attitude. It's hot out there, take some time to stay cool this week.

weemadarthur said:
So why, are y'all always found in topics about womens issues, downplaying their severity? One might think it's because you really aren't playing devil's advocate, but instead posting your real opinions under the guise of pretense. It's not much of a guise.

Yep

V_Arnold · Aug 19, 2018

With all due respect, admins, Contrapoint's own Incel video showed a more complex picture than black-and-white "they are shitheads, end of story".
There was a vice report on the other day on this, these people regularly kill themselves.

If someone kills himself/herself, that is definitely not a healthy behavior, and stating that as a fact is in no way downplaying their toxic and harmful views on women.
Stating that these are troubled behaviours by mentally unhealthy people is not a downplay, it is simply trying to understand it.

Banning people from Era will not solve this.

Surface of Me · Aug 19, 2018

BlueTsunami said:
Selling Incel specific calipers to measure cranial dimensions seems ripe for the taking

"Bone law dictates"

Veggen · Aug 19, 2018

aeolist said:
categorizing groups of bigots as mentally ill is a problem because it lets us sort of slide past the real issue. plenty of mentally healthy people are misogynist or racist or bigoted in any number of different ways.

Yes, they are individuals clustered around this manufactured identity that provides a narrative for their "pain" (shallow reasons that makes them unable to properly participate in society). A mental roadmap, while arguably useful, isn't the first or best step in stopping this as a phenomenon.

Jasup · Aug 19, 2018

aeolist said:
categorizing groups of bigots as mentally ill is a problem because it lets us sort of slide past the real issue. plenty of mentally healthy people are misogynist or racist or bigoted in any number of different ways.

I would like to add that plenty of mentally ill people are not misogynist or racist. #notallmentallyill
I would like to make this distinction because mental illness and your world view are separate issues, sure they can affect one another.

Of course when talking about specific groups like incels, the world view can feed to mental illness. If you are convinced that you can't be happy because of feminism or something, you can get depressed. And the more you wallow in it the more depressed you get. The point being, the mental health problems are the result, not the driver.

V_Arnold · Aug 19, 2018

Jasup said:
I would like to add that plenty of mentally ill people are not misogynist or racist. #notallmentallyill
I would like to make this distinction because mental illness and your world view are separate issues, sure they can affect one another.

Of course when talking about specific groups like incels, the world view can feed to mental illness. If you are convinced that you can't be happy because of feminism or something, you can get depressed. And the more you wallow in it the more depressed you get. The point being, the mental health problems are the result, not the driver.

Yeah, this is important to note. There is clearly a pathway leading towards this "belief system" (damn....), and that is why this intersection of pickup-artistis, alt-right "skeptics" and these 4chan/reddit places is so dangerous.

Deleted member 24907 · Aug 19, 2018

aeolist said:
categorizing groups of bigots as mentally ill is a problem because it lets us sort of slide past the real issue. plenty of mentally healthy people are misogynist or racist or bigoted in any number of different ways.

that said i think the specific set of behaviors that make up the incel mindset definitely include some extremely unhealthy things, mainly the propensity for self-harm. discussing that doesn't take anything away from the danger they present to women.

personally i think the real solution is a combination of therapeutic intervention where possible, the disruption of organized communities in incel spaces, and ultimately the elimination of patriarchy/capitalism since those are the root of so many real issues that lead to anti-female projection.

Agreed on all counts. At the end of the day it's important to realize that the true victims of the incel "movement" are women and, more tragically, the victims of mass murders that incels have committed. This isn't a self-help group. Hell, it isn't even fully a self-hate group. It's a group whose end-goal is to direct anger outwardly, specifically at women. This video does a remarkable job at contextualizing their shit behavior and identifying the dangerous "gateway" entry points as to how someone gets indoctrinated into this shit in the first place. I'd sooner classify them as brainwashed individuals than mentally ill.

D65 · Aug 19, 2018

V_Arnold said:
With all due respect, admins, Contrapoint's own Incel video showed a more complex picture than black-and-white "they are shitheads, end of story".
There was a vice report on the other day on this, these people regularly kill themselves.

If someone kills himself/herself, that is definitely not a healthy behavior, and stating that as a fact is in no way downplaying their toxic and harmful views on women.
Stating that these are troubled behaviours by mentally unhealthy people is not a downplay, it is simply trying to understand it.

Banning people from Era will not solve this.

I agree.

I admit the first half made absolutely little sense to me of how I can empathise until she brought up the parallels of trans women being in spaces to foster their self hate. These people need a way out of the toxic thinking and shunning them for being where they are isn't helping. There's gotta be something else.

No one should be thinking of suicide.

Deleted member 15440 · Aug 19, 2018

weemadarthur said:
The order in which the two points are discussed does show the priority of the discusser.

That is, if the mental health of the abuser is given priority over that of the abused, it is clear to observers where the person talking stands on the relative importance of the two questions.

agreed. the mental health issues should be carefully contextualized in order to ensure that they're being discussed in terms of understanding, treatment, and prevention rather than eliding the danger incels present.

Earthstrike · Aug 19, 2018

I think the whole issue with bringing mental disorders into the discussion is that it distracts from the more important relevant point, that our culture is partially responsible for this. In the same way white school shooters are always given a pass because it's easier than admitting conservative gun culture has serious fucking issues, discussing incels through the lens of mental disease misses the widespread objectification of women throughout various media. And truth be told, I'm pretty sure insane amounts of porn consumption are part of these incels' problems in terms of how they think about women's sexual desires.

Bernd Lauert · Aug 19, 2018

V_Arnold said:
With all due respect, admins, Contrapoint's own Incel video showed a more complex picture than black-and-white "they are shitheads, end of story".
There was a vice report on the other day on this, these people regularly kill themselves.

If someone kills himself/herself, that is definitely not a healthy behavior, and stating that as a fact is in no way downplaying their toxic and harmful views on women.
Stating that these are troubled behaviours by mentally unhealthy people is not a downplay, it is simply trying to understand it.

Banning people from Era will not solve this.

I'm a big fan of Natalie and I thought to myself many times that she would probably get banned here for her nuanced views lmao

D65 · Aug 19, 2018

Bernd Lauert said:
I'm a big fan of Natalie and I thought to myself many times that she would probably get banned here for her nuanced views lmao

Tiffany Tumbles would

Cyanity · Aug 19, 2018

Her videos just keep getting better and better. There's a shocking level of understanding and empathy here, enough to hopefully sway a few incels.

Jasup · Aug 19, 2018

V_Arnold said:
Yeah, this is important to note. There is clearly a pathway leading towards this "belief system" (damn....), and that is why this intersection of pickup-artistis, alt-right "skeptics" and these 4chan/reddit places is so dangerous.

Absolutely, there is a reason we call certain groups and social interactions toxic - they can really do you harm.

This is also why trying to cure incels is pretty much a lost cause and should not be the focus of our efforts. When someone is too far gone, it's almost impossible to reach them.
Where the focus should be are the ones who are not yet there, who are still searching. But this is hard because you really need to be very perceptive to the small cues that hint to that direction and address the issues early on before they develop into full blown fastened views. And because the vast majority of us are not really perceptive enough to do that, shit is allowed to fester way too long until it's too late.

Deleted member 15440 · Aug 19, 2018

Earthstrike said:
I think the whole issue with bringing mental disorders into the discussion is that it distracts from the more important relevant point, that our culture is partially responsible for this. In the same way white school shooters are always given a pass because it's easier than admitting conservative gun culture has serious fucking issues, discussing incels through the lens of mental disease misses the widespread objectification of women throughout various media. And truth be told, I'm pretty sure insane amounts of porn consumption are part of these incels' problems in terms of how they think about women's sexual desires.

a cultural answer is necessary for future prevention, but the current crop of incels are already damaged and we need a therapeutic solution for them

i totally agree that the cultural standards of patriarchy and capitalism create the fundamental conditions for this shit to exist though

KoopaTheCasual · Aug 19, 2018

To bring this thread back on topic, just finished the video and wow.

I've never fully watched one of Contrapoints videos but that was super informative and well paced.

I unfortunately am familiar with most of the terminology of incels due to how frequently we have threads on them, but the overall video was packaged so nicely, and was really enlightening how she tied in her own experience as a trans woman.

But like her, I also don't know what can be done to really help them en-masse, since they have to realize they're falling down to fox hole to even utilize the tools she laid out.

HotHamBoy · Aug 19, 2018

Mewshuji said:
I wonder how many people itt actually watched the video... Thread seems to have become less a discussion of the video and more a general discussion of incels.

It's great by the by, I really suggest y'all watch it.

FWIW, I watched the whole video and thought it was excellent.

Snack12367 · Aug 19, 2018

Contrapoints puts in words something better than I ever could. The part about self harm being a point of control, but also body acceptance. I know plenty of women who cut themselves growing up and it never sat right with me the control angle being the only motivation.

Virtual Self-Harm....fuck...

D65 · Aug 19, 2018

KarneeKarnay said:
Contrapoints puts in words something better than I ever could. The part about self harm being a point of control, but also body acceptance. I know plenty of women who cut themselves growing up and it never sat right with me the control angle being the only motivation.

Virtual Self-Harm....fuck...

The vast majority of people I know that cut themselves are cis women...

I never have.

Side note the song "Ghost Town" from ye's latest album is really cathartic.

Super Corpse Soldier · Aug 19, 2018

Mewshuji said:
I wonder how many people itt actually watched the video... Thread seems to have become less a discussion of the video and more a general discussion of incels.

It's great by the by, I really suggest y'all watch it.

I've watched it twice now.

OhSatan · Aug 19, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
These people want to rape, murder and own women.

Sorry for singling you out excel but this.

That quote is the end game for them, that is where the dark place leads.

The fault in contra's video is that and she says it, she left out the worst. Her transition analogy works here, braincels are just in a pretransition state, but the ones that already took the step that went all the way that accepted their fait saw that they are not the problem is the women and they must do something about it.

Sure like the video the image of men wallowing in self pity gives them empathy but that is not the end game, the end game is a fostering pit of hate towards women, they even stop using thier meme languaje.

excelsiorlef said:
These people want to rape, murder and own women.

So if excel wants them to stop existing because the extreme is a danger to her kind and she has no time to worry about the ones with weak chins, is just pure survival and undestanding how society work with sexism.

So yeah lets talk about help them after the cult is dead and we can grow nerd culture to a working level.

blinky · Aug 19, 2018

Mewshuji said:
I wonder how many people itt actually watched the video... Thread seems to have become less a discussion of the video and more a general discussion of incels.

It's great by the by, I really suggest y'all watch it.

I agree. That was a very good video.

Brian McDoogle · Aug 19, 2018

Redcrayon · Aug 19, 2018

Great video, lots of insightful comment there.

With regard to the comments quoted in the video, I feel like 'thank you skull people for showing me the way' sums up how delusional, unhelpful and just plain weird incel boards are.

Stinkles · Aug 19, 2018

Mewshuji said:
I wonder how many people itt actually watched the video... Thread seems to have become less a discussion of the video and more a general discussion of incels.

It's great by the by, I really suggest y'all watch it.

The video is excellent but to be fair it's also a general discussion about Incels.

Brian McDoogle said:

Smut.

Stinkles · Aug 19, 2018

I think my biggest takeaway from the video is that it exposes plainly something I have always suspected - which is that Incels aren't simply discovering what they are, they are actively becoming it. They're training themselves to be this thing and they're being coached and prodded and enabled in a vicious cycle. In that regard it isn't just a choice - it's a hobby and an obsession and something that they can all be "good" at.

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