Variety: Disney stands firm in James Gunn not returning to GotG3

Klyka said:

People here talking like Guardians 1 was this surefire hit everyone knew would be amazing lol

Guys we had entire THREADS about how no audience ever would accept a talking raccoon and a talking tree that only repeat once sentence!

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What idiot thought a talking raccoon wouldn't work? Disney was made off the back of talking animals. People love that shit. Groot is basically a giant dog like pet, which people also love in movies. Idk if I could have predicted the overall success of GotG, but rocket and Groot should have been a no-brainer imo.

What a fucking shitshow.

Fuck Alan Horn and the other Disney execs for giving rise to the alt-right bully culture.

Ashhong said:

What idiot thought a talking raccoon wouldn't work? Disney was made off the back of talking animals. People love that shit. Groot is basically a giant dog like pet, which people also love in movies. Idk if I could have predicted the overall success of GotG, but rocket and Groot should have been a no-brainer imo.

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People hated the ever living shit out of Rocket Raccoon in UMvC3 and kept talking shit to Capcom for years for wasting a slot on him.

JigglesBunny said:

I hope it was because Gunn walked into the room, dropped a manila folder on the table filled with printed out copies of emails he's gotten from studios in the past month offering him directing and writing gigs before flipping Alan the bird and saying "Fuck off."

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There's no real falling upwards for Gunn. Whoever hires him, he'll be working on less important stuff and with lower budgets.

Visanideth said:

There's no real falling upwards for Gunn. Whoever hires him, he'll be working on less important stuff and with lower budgets.

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This is true. It's not like Gunn's portfolio outside of Marvel is any good. GoTG was his peak.

Einchy said:

So you don't support his firing but you do post this:

Which is to a post where it says this was all Gunn's fault that he got fired. So, you don't support his firing, you just think his firing was just, sounds like you support his firing.

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I think you're failing to understand that "I wouldn't have fired him" and "I understand why they fired him" are not contradictory positions.

It's my stance too. I would have probably kept Gunn but I completely understand why Disney fired him and I can't blame them.

subpar spatula said:

This is true. It's not like Gunn's portfolio outside of Marvel is any good. GoTG was his peak.

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The man does have talent, even if I feel GotG1's script was a lot better than 2's. He may end up doing better stuff, but right now working at Disney is the endgame.

TheEnd said:

People hated the ever living shit out of Rocket Raccoon in UMvC3 and kept talking shit to Capcom for years for wasting a slot on him.

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What? I loved Rocket and he was a hype little fucker when Kusoru beat a bunch of pros with him at Final Round. Hell, people were actually upset that they didn't use the European accent for the movie Rocket initially haha.

Kalentan said:

Right, deleting them. Like that would work.

(Hint: You can use various sites to see old tweets).

I could just imagine people going: "Well if he had nothing to hide, why delete them?"

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I guess deleting them could have been seen as a way of distancing himself from his past. He never taking off the offensive stuff he posted certainly didn't help defending his position.

subpar spatula said:

This is true. It's not like Gunn's portfolio outside of Marvel is any good. GoTG was his peak.

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Slither and Super are both excellent movies. Certainly not as commercially viable and safe as your typical Marvel movie, but I'd rewatch Super over a large portion of Marvels cookie-cutter output.

I thought most of Era was condemning him to hell and back some time ago. What happened?

Messofanego said:

Just Disney returning to its roots of Nazi sympathizing.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...quasi-nazi-the-fascist-history-of-disney.html

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Nothing new really. Some talented people and companies have no problems working with problematic regimes, and their success survives regardless as long as people buy their creations.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...che-and-volkswagen-s-nazi-roots-a-637368.html

Disney's slate is stacked in the near future. It's also entirely possible a third movie gets made with another good director and turns out just fine or even better. They can easily deal with this in business terms. Morally, it endangers people and sets a bad precedent. It seems like there's still a large disconnect between the highest management and people who are more in tune with the way winds are blowing.

Wackamole said:

I thought most of Era was condemning him to hell and back some time ago. What happened?

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.... you read the first 3 posts of the first thread? ERA has always been militantly pro-Gunn.

To clarify, the first thread (before he was fired) was a long streak of "watch the alt right crash and burn on this, Feige will never fire Gunn, Disney knew about this".

Wackamole said:

I thought most of Era was condemning him to hell and back some time ago. What happened?

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Era is not a hive mind. Plenty of people have been upset since Disney fired him and are still upset now.

Visanideth said:

.... you read the first 3 posts of the first thread? ERA has always been militantly pro-Gunn.

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Yeah there's really only been a few instances of "Glad he's gone" drive by posting. I'm pro Gunn but not to the absurd level some people are.

So guess I'll be downloading it once it hits the torrents.

Regulus Tera said:

It's not like Disney hasn't shown the eagerness to use such technology in their other properties.

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Are you serious ? Or is it a joke post ?

Visanideth said:

ERA has always been militantly pro-Gunn.

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...sure

Done with the MCU after Avengers. See ya.

SinkFla said:

Yeah there's really only been a few instances of "Glad he's gone" drive by posting. I'm pro Gunn but not to the absurd level some people are.

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I wouldn't call it absurd. People have the right to feel invested in this both due to fandom (genuinely being attached to Gunn's vision for the franchise) or for political reasons (not wanting to let the alt-right get a "win").

I simply don't agree with the second point because letting your decision making be influenced by the fact that the informations come from the Alt Right means compromising your principles.
Either what Gunn wrote makes him unfit for Disney or it doesn't. Fuck the Alt Right. If we get at a stage where we say "yeah what he did was questionable but he's anti-Trump and we can't let those assholes win, so he gets a pass" then the Alt Right will have scored a much bigger victory.

Sloth Guevara said:

So guess I'll be downloading it once it hits the torrents.

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if you want to be a man and take a stand, then you won't watch it at all. don't be a bitch and pirate.

Hydeus said:

Are you serious ? Or is it a joke post ?

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I'm totally serious and this is where the industry is gonna go in a few years.

KtotheRoc said:

Era is not a hive mind. Plenty of people have been upset since Disney fired him and are still upset now.

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I never said that. But i remember a thread about a joke he made and in that thread, from what i've read most people were against him, it seemed. I didn't follow the entire thread though so Visanideth is right in that regard. Not the first three pages but certainly not the whole, thread. But i'll revisit the thread if i can find it.

A very disappointing decision, but on the bright side this frees him up to possibly work on better projects. Would love to see him do a smaller scale film again, Super and Slither were both incredible.

Visanideth said:

I simply don't agree with the second point because letting your decision making be influenced by the fact that the informations come from the Alt Right means compromising your principles.
Either what Gunn wrote makes him unfit for Disney or it doesn't. Fuck the Alt Right. If we get at a stage where we say "yeah what he did was questionable but he's anti-Trump and we can't let those assholes win, so he gets a pass" then the Alt Right will have scored a much bigger victory.

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It seems like you're ignoring the perfectly reasonable "Those tweets are bad, he apologized, it was over and done with" argument. I don't think those old tweets, given his apology and behavior since, make him unfit for Disney. I think his firing was a lazy snap reaction to bad press and should have been walked back. There's nothing militant or political about that.

ZeroGravity said:

Done with the MCU after Avengers. See ya.

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You're really going to stick it to Disney by showing how upset you are about their decisions by confirming that you will at least watch their next two Marvel movies. Lol. :)

This is why I think a lot of consumer boycott proclamations are so weak. People are such slaves to consumerism.

Edit: To clarify, I honestly feel that if there was a real clear and present threat to their bottom line from backlash from this, they would absolutely reconsider and backtrack. But there isn't because even the people declaring they are "done" are declaring they are done <after the rest of the films that must be watched to complete the ~story arc~>. That shows that they have you by the balls, not the other way round.

Wackamole said:

I never said that. But i remember a thread about a joke he made and in that thread, from what i've read most people were against him, it seemed. I didn't follow the entire thread though so Visanideth is right in that regard. Not the first three pages but certainly not the whole, thread. But i'll revisit the thread if i can find it.

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It's about 50/50. It's just that as time has passed, people who were initially vocally anti-Gunn eventually lost interest or realized that trying to portray anyone who didn't agree with them as perverts and hypocrites wasn't working. The rest are just dropping by to clown within safe limits.

Labor said:

It's about 50/50. It's just that as time has passed, people who were initially vocally anti-Gunn eventually lost interest or realized that trying to portray anyone who didn't agree with them as perverts and hypocrites wasn't working.

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Yeah this was going on, right? Damn, thought i was crazy there for a second.

It's a shame Marvel stopped making movies after Infinity War/Ant-Man and the Wasp. I never expected them to end their highly successful multi-film franchise in such a manner.

Other companies should hire Gunn just to stick it to Disney. Disney attempted to cated to the public outrage and hit its head against the wall. Disney knew Gunn's prior work and could have easily known about his past Tweets, if they didn't already. If they think that not rehiring Gunn is saving face, they're wrong, what they did is much worse.
And you can't tell me that its Disney's policy to hire "clean people" when people like Sarah Silverman are on their Payroll. They simply reacted to outage. What will they do when social media lynches another actor? F*ck Disney and f*ck Feige for not having a backbone.

Avitus said:

It seems like you're ignoring the perfectly reasonable "Those tweets are bad, he apologized, it was over and done with" argument. I don't think those old tweets, given his apology and behavior since, make him unfit for Disney. I think his firing was a lazy snap reaction to bad press and should have been walked back. There's nothing militant or political about that.

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I'm not ignoring it. It's part of the "either is fit or he's unfit". Disney is free to decide if Gunn's current stance makes him a good fit for their image or not, and we're free to judge Disney's stance on this.

It's the part where this situation should somehow be handled differently because it's the alt right who brought it up that muddles everything. If we make the decision about Gunn and Disney, the alt right is irrelevant in the equation, because he'd be fired or kept no matter who brought the issue up. If we alter our judgement because the alt right is involved, they've already won because we make them more important than our principles.

All of this is of course compatible with a scenario where Disney goes "we don't care, we're fine with Gunn" and keeps working with him; but it's not what happened, for better or worse.

KtotheRoc said:

Era is not a hive mind. Plenty of people have been upset since Disney fired him and are still upset now.

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Not hive minded but if you don't share the same opinions as the majority of others you will get dog pilled , and aggressive messages .

Sony said:

Other companies should hire Gunn just to stick it to Disney. Disney attempted to cated to the public outrage and hit its head against the wall. Disney knew Gunn's prior work and could have easily known about his past Tweets, if they didn't already. If they think that not rehiring Gunn is saving face, they're wrong, what they did is much worse.
And you can't tell me that its Disney's policy to hire "clean people" when people like Sarah Silverman are on their Payroll. They simply reacted to outage. What will they do when social media lynches another actor? F*ck Disney and f*ck Feige for not having a backbone.

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If Gunn created a successful franchise for another studio, that'd be mildly annoying to Disney. They still have a stacked slate and can still make a third Guardians movie that may make even more money. From a business standpoint, it's small potatoes to fire Gunn. And by virtue of being the top dog around, they can still attract talent even if they did throw one particular director under the proverbial bus.

Labor said:

It's about 50/50. It's just that as time has passed, people who were initially vocally anti-Gunn eventually lost interest or realized that trying to portray anyone who didn't agree with them as perverts and hypocrites wasn't working. The rest are just dropping by to clown within safe limits.

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Honestly I feel like we had the usual 2 days of "garbage human being, off with his dead" drive by these "outrages" usually generate, but the discussion almost immediately switched to the alt-right angle and from there on it was mostly support for Gunn.

duckroll said:

You're really going to stick it to Disney by showing how upset you are about their decisions by confirming that you will at least watch their next two Marvel movies. Lol. :)

This is why I think a lot of consumer boycott proclamations are so weak. People are such slaves to consumerism.

Edit: To clarify, I honestly feel that if there was a real clear and present threat to their bottom line from backlash from this, they would absolutely reconsider and backtrack. But there isn't because even the people declaring they are "done" are declaring they are done <after the rest of the films that must be watched to complete the ~story arc~>. That shows that they have you by the balls, not the other way round.

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I'm done with James Cameron after Avatar 3 :P

We geeks are weak to our addiction of entertainment over principles. If the next Avengers hit mediocre box office figures, only then they would reconsider.

This is not a good look and a huge downer on the whole Marvel train.

Sony should buy Marvel.

Avitus said:

If Gunn created a successful franchise for another studio, that'd be mildly annoying to Disney. They still have a stacked slate and can still make a third Guardians movie that may make even more money. From a business standpoint, it's small potatoes to fire Gunn. And by virtue of being the top dog around, they can still attract talent even if they did throw one particular director under the proverbial bus.

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I still think people are being way too generous in crediting the GotG's franchise success to Gunn and only Gunn. I think the incredible chemistry of the cast is at least as important, and besides, the franchise existed before Gunn and the first script wasn't even fully his.

GotG can absolutely survive without Gunn. Heck, despite the entire shitty situation, the idea that this could end up in a GotG helmed by Waititi and with Thor in the cast is drool worthy.

Messofanego said:

I'm done with James Cameron after Avatar 3 :P

We geeks are weak to our addiction of entertainment over principles. If the next Avengers hit mediocre box office figures, only then they would reconsider.

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Yup. It's like the Modern Warfare 2 boycott screen capture. Every time. Lol. :(

Regulus Tera said:

I'm totally serious and this is where the industry is gonna go in a few years.

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He will be there for $$. Or they will recast him. Simple as that.

As much as I disagree with the decision, Disney are cornered on this one. The tactics used would be horrific and I genuinely sympathise with them over this.

I could honestly see the daily mail here running a headline of child abuse apologist REHIRED alongside a picture of his to catch a predator dress up, a few quotes from child abuse victims and charities.

That would be seen by millions and context be damned. Parents and grandparents who read that press wouldn't delve deeper into what it's about. It would be damning and on face value.

It's a rock and hard place situation all over.

Well this certanly is disappointing.

Visanideth said:

I still think people are being way too generous in crediting the GotG's franchise success to Gunn and only Gunn. I think the incredible chemistry of the cast is at least as important, and besides, the franchise existed before Gunn and the first script wasn't even fully his.

GotG can absolutely survive without Gunn. Heck, despite the entire shitty situation, the idea that this could end up in a GotG helmed by Waititi and with Thor in the cast is drool worthy.

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Brett Ratners GotG3 coming soon to a theatre near you.

WarrenD said:

As much as I disagree with the decision, Disney are cornered on this one. The tactics used would be horrific and I genuinely sympathise with them over this.

I could honestly see the daily mail here running a headline of child abuse apologist REHIRED alongside a picture of his to catch a predator dress up, a few quotes from child abuse victims and charities.

That would be seen by millions and context be damned. Parents and grandparents who read that press wouldn't delve deeper into what it's about. It would be damning and on face value.

It's a rock and hard place situation all over.

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Exactly this should happen but with how Disney gave in to a racist rapist. Ideally every outlet would be loud about Cernotrash and how immensely hypocritical this whole affair has been from disney's side(still employing people with questionable pasts as well so there is 0 consistency) as well from the people that started the outrage.
But likely nothing will happen.

Yung Kyubii said:

And so the MCU dies

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Because?

Dreams-Visions said:

if you want to be a man and take a stand, then you won't watch it at all. don't be a bitch and pirate.

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Less of the "be a man" and general toxicity, please.

I really hope finding another director on this movie is going to be hell

WarrenD said:

As much as I disagree with the decision, Disney are cornered on this one. The tactics used would be horrific and I genuinely sympathise with them over this.

I could honestly see the daily mail here running a headline of child abuse apologist REHIRED alongside a picture of his to catch a predator dress up, a few quotes from child abuse victims and charities.

That would be seen by millions and context be damned. Parents and grandparents who read that press wouldn't delve deeper into what it's about. It would be damning and on face value.

It's a rock and hard place situation all over.

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On the other hand Mike Cernovich is a convicted rapist. That's all you need to bury him, really.