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"The Fighting Game Scene no longer needs Street Fighter to thrive"
- Thread starter Doctrine Dark
- Start date
God forbid companies put up pot bonuses and sponsorships that allow players to actually push towards going full time! Disgraceful strong-arming and bullying.
This line of thinking about publisher support is ludicrous.
I don't think anyone wants single elimination for fighting games these days. Spectator or competitor. I personally don't find them entertaining at all. I want to see as many high level games as possible.
Umm, excuse me?
When has Nintendo ever provided pot bonuses for Melee? When have they done anything other than try to shut down their tournaments or pretend the scene doesn't exist in the face of their newer games?
I'm baffled as to why everyone's so angry. Like, shit, it's really not that deep. Video games are serious business, I guess.
*raises hand* i would.
If you don't mind me asking. Why do you feel you wouldn't get that with a single elimination style tournament. ?
Uhh... yeah, no one except this guy.
Because you're literally playing about half the amount of games in a single elimination tournament?
I'm talking broadly and in general since a train of thought I've seen crashing through this thread frequently is the idea that Melee survives while other games like SF4 fail to because companies like Capcom pump in pot bonuses for the new game, but if we're talking specifically Smash I've seen anger at Nintendo allowing things like Smash 4 to be broadcast on TV over Melee, fear over Nintendo actually going in on esports with Ultimate - and really, what do people expect them to do? Melee is ancient. The only thing that's going to see Nintendo want to acknowledge it is if they re=release it, and even then we'll be in for hand-wringing over if it runs properly, lag, etc etc.
Yeah, a few times they tried to shut down tournaments. It was bloody years ago. I think it's fair to say Nintendo has learned over the years, though, and I can't believe that's still being held over them. When it mattered they backed off, relented, and even learned. With Ultimate they're clearly making moves to be more embracing, but it's delusional to think they're going to highlight a fifteen year old game over that.
I def agree that single elim is nothing a competitor would want, but less is more sometimes as a spectator. I mean, they run single GAME single elim in Japan often and the results are about as random as you'd expect but the pacing is great and the hype levels are high.
Yeah. Me. LOL.
That's why i'd increase the number of matches in sets.
No one's saying the scene doesn't deserve to exist it just doesn't deserve to be coddled and it's pretty clear that Melee players feel entitled to special attention. Nintendo probably isn't even being deliberately antagonistic toward the game's community: it probably doesn't even register on their radar as a blip and why should it? I mean I'd be fucking bored as hell if SFV played exactly like Street Fighter 2 or Tekken 7 hadn't evolved past Tekken 3 mechanically.
Current games should be on the main stage period.
I think a chunk of it depends on how long the game goes on, too. DBFZ matches go on, and the game is great but I think from the spectator POV single elim could work for that game.
Its the biggest FGC Tournament in the world, it should srart at a reasonable hour for the majority of it. Hell, even for West Coast, 9pm is way too late.
What has that to do with where SF V is slotted? They could easily swap it with another game. Have melee last.
I'm in Seattle and SF5 still ended much later than I would have liked. It would be shitty for the early games to start at like 8 am though. Maybe run a game like BB or GG all Friday during other pools and have its Finals that night, so you end up moving two games from Sunday, 1 to Sat and 1 to Fri. Let the big game's pools take a backseat then.
It's the same misplaced pride as console wars. "My preferred product is better" "no, mine is". Same shit different coat of paint.
Almost lol just meant that just because a thing went wrong for one group of people it doesn't mean that things went wrong for everyone.
Anyway I would only be worried about fighting games future if the whole genere was actually ridding on the back of street fighter and copying everything it did. Fortunately we do not live in that timeline and there are tons of fighters out there from big companies and small filling all doing there own thing and finding success.
Now if only 3d arena fighters made a big comeback.
I'm not so sure SFV Top 8 started at a reasonable hour for attendees this year.
SFV ended at 12am. Not counting any post gane ceremonies they had which I didn't stick around for. Considering Sunday is the last day, and a lot of people likely had flights early next morning, is that really reasonable?
I've never really understood this mindset. If players think the older game is better, why should they move on to the new one? What possible benefit could there be for people playing a game they like to ditch it and pick up a new one that they don't think is superior? I think if any attitude is weird here, it's that of the Street Fighter fans who didn't have full faith in V but moved onto it anyway out of some sense of obligation.
True, but that's through no fault of their own. From what I remember, games started late all day Sunday.
What is your point? That the Melee scene should stop playing the game they're passionate about and support sequels that show the publisher's distaste for their interests in their very gameplay design, because the company hasn't explicitly shit on them lately and because internet spectators without a vested interest in their community like yourself express annoyance over the internet a million miles away?
Do you not see how you ridiculous you sound?
You might hate the fact that 2 Smash games take up EVO Sunday for... whatever reasons, and you might cling to shitty, ignorant generalizations about "childishness" regarding the Melee community specifically in efforts to justify your annoyance; but let's at least try to think about the people playing the games as actual human beings with a sense of self-worth and an identity and not some fungible abstraction, can we?
If a corporation shit on me personally, and isn't doing anything to make that relationship better outside "We won't shit on you anymore", I'd consider us at a stalemate: I don't have to support any of your products and you don't have to support my interests (or shit on me any further).
You just sound annoyed that the community succeeds on its own merits.
I personally hate it. At least for games/communities that I'm personally invested in. When Arc Revolution was single elimination in 2015 I didn't even bother to watch it.
I don't understand. How is that still single elimination?
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I remember Tougeki being single elimination, 1 match, just like in the arcades.
This just sounds like jealously. The Melee scene's leverage is due to their strict passion for the game they play. Full stop. They're not "coddled" they're catered to, because they have that leverage. Sorry none of the games you play drive that kind of leverage.
Might as well flip a coin if DBZ was single elmin, probably get the same results.
I meant i'd increase the number of matches in a set.
I wouldn't have it be like Tougeki. I'd still have sets. Just loser's brakcet.
No no. i mean increase the amount of matches in a set.
For example from my other post.
So it would be something like this.
Quarter finals; 3 out of 5 (or first to 5)
Semi finals: 5 out of 7 (or first to 7)
Grand finals: 8 out of 10 (or first to 10)
Okay, okay, I gotcha. But if you went this route as opposed to everything being 2/3 double elimination expect Winners/Losers/Grand Finals; that sounds like you could potentially be playing more overall games in the end? So why single elimination in that case?
Because i feel if you get knocked than that's it. You shouldn't be given a second chance. Which is what double elim does.
Street Fighter isnt the only big pillar, but it is a big pillar nonetheless.
After MvC3 launch, SFxT, SFV launch, and MvCI, I'm convinced SFIV was just a fluke, and I don't even like that game. So yes, I think other games and franchises earning a larger chunk of influence and "stealing" it from SF is probably a good thing.
After MvC3 launch, SFxT, SFV launch, and MvCI, I'm convinced SFIV was just a fluke, and I don't even like that game. So yes, I think other games and franchises earning a larger chunk of influence and "stealing" it from SF is probably a good thing.
This might be a better forum for you.
You could be Daigo Umehara. It doesn't matter. It's not a "fact." Please educate yourself.
And there it is: you're kind of proving my point dude with that tone. I honestly don't care what other games are on the EVO stage but I appreciate your concern about the games I play. My point remains having two games in the same series on the main stage is just silly and the only reason why Melee is up there is because of points others and I have raised.
I mean, personally speaking the Gundam Versus games (and Virtual-On too probably) have the best neutral ever, but eh, arena games and what not.
Because some people want to evolve and learn new rule sets and FGs as a whole are better when a community is coming together to figure out a new game.
What tone? What point? All I see is confirmation and false consensus biases in full effect. If the points raised aren't "The reason Melee is up on the main stage on Sunday is because Melee players consistently support their game in large numbers making them impossible to ignore" then it's just noise. People like you hate the fact that it's just that simple. It burns you, so you construct petty mythologies about childish behavior or "stubbornly sticking to old games just because" to muddy the reality of the circumstances. I'm sorry that's not working out for you.
I think it's silly also; but only from a conceptual standpoint. From a business, compassionate, and motivational standpoint - basically every standpoint that matters for a grassroots fighting game tournament - Melee's inclusion makes perfect sense.
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I mean, technically, Pong has the greatest neutral of all time.
So create a new community around a new game and don't get mad when people decide they love a game and won't learn a new one because of arbitrary, "It's shiny" reasons.
Twitch stats for EVO 2018
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...rage-full-evo-viewership-statistics-released/
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...rage-full-evo-viewership-statistics-released/
Is this your opinion as a spectator who wants a game to be done with ASAP so you can watch the next thing, or as a competitor actually paying for and taking the time to go out to an event?
You've misunderstood my position. It has nothing to do with time.
I haven't had the opportunity enter a tourney yet. Unfortunately, but i would like to in the future. And if i did get knocked to losers i would retire.
Twitch stats for EVO 2018
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...rage-full-evo-viewership-statistics-released/
...Super Smash Bros?
They had the N64 one in EVO? =O