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osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928


While maybe not exactly deliberate or planned on the long run, the most impressive thing about the new God of War to me will always be its depiction of a developed Kratos. The game beautifully draws a fine line between his past and current life in a great example of how to carry over character development over a long time.

What works about Kratos, in my opinion, is that he is very familiar to many, and he has a very 'storied' history that it worked as grounds for such a drastic change in a way that you feel an interesting consistency rather than a feeling of disjointedness. The game is able to show Kratos grappling with his past in his new journey which also enriches the character all the better.

A question that bugged me, however, is if we have seen similar examples in the past, and if not which character do you think have enough history and depth to be be depicted in a new, more mature light, where his "maturity" doesn't feel unrealistic and rather interesting if done well?

I am not familiar with Metal Gear Solid, but it feels to me the closest thing we had wherein a character exhibited so much changes through a long journey is Snake, but that is just a unfamiliar observant's opinion.

So, ERA, which character do you think has the potential to undergo a drastic change? and do you think we already had one before Kratos?
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,282
You Mentioned MGS which is a good one, as there are multiple games with multiple characters giving them room to grow.

Id say in a similar vein to God Of War, Uncharted also had a bit of a tonal shift from 3 to 4, seeing Drake turn into a bit more of a grounded personality, or one that had real problems.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Redeeming Duke Nukem would be an epic task but that would be quite the character growth.
 
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osnameless

osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928
Id say in a similar vein to God Of War, Uncharted also had a bit of a tonal shift from 3 to 4, seeing Drake turn into a bit more of a grounded personality, or one that had real problems.

Again, I am not very familiar with Uncharted, but from what I read and saw, Uncharted 4's Nathan Drake is more of a gimmick than actual development. Over the course of the game, as I saw it, Nathan lacked consistency compared to Kratos.

I could be dead wrong, though.

You Mentioned MGS which is a good one, as there are multiple games with multiple characters giving them room to grow.

I really was talking about Snake. I know basically nothing about anyone outside of him.


The Man, The Myth, The Legend!
 

CattleCalypto

Banned
Jul 26, 2018
990
latest


I don't see another answer than Ezio, to be honest...
 
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osnameless

osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928
Older and more mature Dante in future DMC games.

If you mean DMC 4's Dante, then yeah, that didn't really work for me. He came off as so forced.

People always say that he acted that way because nothing was at stake for him. No idea how that make things better. I mean if he wasn't concerned about it all, why should I?

But, maybe Dante in DMC5 will be good. I am hoping for it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I would say Doom guy has become even more of a badass. His personality (from what little we saw from the hud in the first game) has become a lot more detailed. Now he is a legendary guy who scares not just the demons but humanity as well.
 

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,470
Max Payne is the only other one. The first game came out in 2002 and the final game a decade later, and in the time between the second and third game, Max went from a tragic but steadfast figure to a completely broken one.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,408
Most video game characters have very little characterisation, especially in action games. A list of those that don't would be shorter than those that do.
 
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osnameless

osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928
Max Payne is the only other one. The first game came out in 2002 and the final game a decade later, and in the time between the second and third game, Max went from a tragic but steadfast figure to a completely broken one.

Sadly, it doesn't seem, looking at current Rockstar, that a new Max Payne will ever be released.
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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Aiden Pearce. Since he's not been really liked generally, that gives him the most opportunity to grow if given the chance in Watchdogs 3.
Aiden could be more interesting from a new angle. One that's more honest about him as a bad person. Watch Dogs 1 couldn't decide how anti-heroic it wanted him to be, so instead he just comes off like an asshole who the game tries to prop up as a "cool badass." He's much like Kratos in this way.

All the same, I'd prefer a totally new protagonist in 3. Not Marcus. Not Aiden. A fresh, true, morally mixed anti-hero where good and evil actions committed by the player in gameplay aren't at odds with the narrative.
 
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osnameless

osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928
Lara Croft could do with a personality upgrade imo.

Isn't that what they have been trying to do since the reboot? Slowly build her up? showing how more experienced and gritty she has gotten. I think that is a prevalent theme in the upcoming one, that things have gotten darker and grimmer with time

No idea how well that was executed.
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,987
Kat from Gravity Rush has a lot of potential as a character IMO. That world could mature into something so neat, and I'd love a pivotal evolution of her character.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
So I haven't played the older Wolfenstein games admittedly, but I really loved BJs character in New Order. I imagine the older games didn't portray him nearly as nuanced or with the same poetic sadness New Order did
wolfenstein-the-new-order-jacket-800x859.jpg
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,279
Isn't that what they have been trying to do since the reboot? Slowly build her up? showing how more experienced and gritty she has gotten. I think that is a prevalent theme in the upcoming one, that things have gotten darker and grimmer with time

No idea how well that was executed.

The issue with the reboot Lara is that, in an effort to distance themselves from the earlier games, the developers have made her into a very, very dull character who's just plain hard to like. It feels like they grew confused on what a "more mature Lara Croft" could be and simply replaced one kind of "fake gamer maturity" (sexy ladies doing cool stunts in short shorts) with another (edgy and gritty ultra-violence with no fun allowed).
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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Only if you get to switch back and forth between him and Marcus like in GTA V.
The problem with Marcus and the San Francisco chapter of DedSec is that lethality is at odds with their stated modus operandi. In this way, I feel the more flawed character of Aiden is or could be a better vessel for the player to inhabit an open world where you can shoot guns at civilians.
 
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osnameless

osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928
The thing is that any character can grow, but that would require good writers, which are few and far between in the game industry.

Of course!

Execution is always where things fail. There are no shortage of promising ideas.

The thing I am interested in, though, is characters with rich history and good nuance that could be developed in new, or even drastic, but realistic ways. Like how things panned out for Kratos.
 

Chaostar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
107
Isn't that what they have been trying to do since the reboot? Slowly build her up? showing how more experienced and gritty she has gotten. I think that is a prevalent theme in the upcoming one, that things have gotten darker and grimmer with time

No idea how well that was executed.

Tbh I'd have to give them another play through to be able to say exactly where they failed/succeeded, they're just really forgettable story-wise. Traded them both in though, no regrets.

The only character development I can think of is the fact she goes from frightened girl, lost and alone, to murder-happy, SAS trained, commando in an alarmingly short amount of time.
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
Sam Fisher, though I'm not sure current Ubisoft could pull it off. Prove me wrong Yves.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,942
Cole McGrath from inFamous. He's a conduit with electric superpowers, but the first game's plot revealed that his powers would eventually grow to nearly god-like levels, and that he'd be capable of shouldering tremendous responsibility with the right drive. He'd have a lot of potential as a major NPC in a future inFamous game, if it could be explained that he's somehow survived in the years since inFamous 2.
 

Zaied

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,553
Isn't that what they have been trying to do since the reboot? Slowly build her up? showing how more experienced and gritty she has gotten. I think that is a prevalent theme in the upcoming one, that things have gotten darker and grimmer with time

No idea how well that was executed.
They've already built Lara up for the most part. Here's a quote from the writer on how they wanted to introduce her:
"Classic Lara had been a playgirl with the money, gadgets, and guns to deal with any situation, jetting around the world and having these big adventures, and being very James Bond-y. That's not quite as relatable in this day and age of economic strife as maybe she once was," Pratchett said. "With this Lara, I wanted to bring her down to earth a little bit more, and think about her as an average London student just out of university who paid her way through and worked bar jobs — someone more in line with young women in London today."
Compare that to where she is now, she's grown drastically as a character since the first game thanks to the comic runs, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Blood Ties DLC. It's been executed pretty well so far, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider will apparently take her character into a darker place by focusing on her inner conflict and obsessions. Lara is a great character.

I think many of the inFAMOUS protagonists are quite untapped. Sucker Punch did have more planned for Cole at least until they had to make Good Karma the canon ending. If they ever revisit the franchise, I'd like to see them do more with Delsin. His Native American roots are still unexplored, and they could present some better motives for Bad Karma.
 
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osnameless

osnameless

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Jan 13, 2018
1,928
One another very good example. I know a lot like to trash Telltale, but the way they have treated Clementine throughout the Walking Dead games is really solid. The way she transforms from a scared little girl to a fearless survivor while giving her responsibility and leading roles is amazing. She is a very good example on how to do character development throughout a series.
 
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osnameless

osnameless

Member
Jan 13, 2018
1,928
They've already built Lara up for the most part. Here's a quote from the writer on how they wanted to introduce her:
Compare that to where she is now, she's grown drastically as a character since the first game thanks to the comic runs, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Blood Ties DLC. It's been executed pretty well so far, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider will apparently take her character into a darker place by focusing on her inner conflict and obsessions. Lara is a great character.

I think many of the inFAMOUS protagonists are quite untapped. Sucker Punch did have more planned for Cole at least until they had to make Good Karma the canon ending. If they ever revisit the franchise, I'd like to see them do more with Delsin. His Native American roots are still unexplored, and they could present some better motives for Bad Karma.

That is pretty interesting. I mean, I have yet to play the reboot game and Rise, so I have no idea how well the execution of the whole thing was, even though many say that the story is plain terrible, but I think this was also highlighted in the recent movie, which was based on the 2013 game.

If that is what they've actually done, then it should be a good experience.
 

JusDoIt

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Oct 25, 2017
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Working on my pitch to Capcom:

Respected psychiatrist Dr. Vega Bison MD is vacationing in Italy with his daughter, Cammy Bison, and wife, Rose Bison. They get attacked, his family is kidnapped, and he goes about looking for them using all of his abilities as a certified mental health professional to save them.

On his journey to rescue his loved ones he's attacked by randos and he fights them the only way he knows how: crushing their psyches. But a man can only crush so many psyches before he turns into a psycho crusher...
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Sora becoming something more than a human Mickey Mouse would be great.

Hell, Mickey's had more mature material in Kingdom Hearts.
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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Aiden Pearce is probably the most direct AAA-space comparison you could make to Kratos pre-rework. They both really fit the bill of shallow, edgy pieces of shit their narratives try and paint as more heroic figures. Both are incestuous, too.

Once upon a time I would suggest Master Chief in this thread, but 343 have tried to do something more there much in same way Crystal Dynamics tried to with Lara, which is to say I don't really feel they succeeded. While you may have a deposit, you won't always strike gold.
Doom Marine

please dont
I would say they already did flesh out Doomguy in the reboot, and they did it in a very subtle way that not only doesn't interfere with what Doom is, but compliments it. I don't believe developing a character necessarily means giving them a ton of exposition or extensive story. It just means giving them something. It could be a small, cosmetic piece or an entire backstory. It's very dependent on what you're trying to accomplish. In Doomguy's case, it was just a tiny bit of emotion, a little bit of agency, and an optional, vague backstory.