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Do you believe in a higher power?

  • Yes

    Votes: 403 21.9%
  • No

    Votes: 1,153 62.5%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 288 15.6%

  • Total voters
    1,844

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,869
Cheap? How so? I see it as expensive. A Man and a Woman work together to create a new life energy. Its the greatest mystery to our world. We scientifically know how the process happens, but actually how is this happening? We know that is the only way to create a human life. Our reality is comprised of so many universes, from our minds, to our bodies, to the ocean, to space. Its effortlessly complex and beyond our scope.

Well, if someone created us, even if using the billions and billions of years of apparent random events and evolution, it's still : "someone created us". I don't know. It's... Underwhelming to me.

Like the god would be a crazy scientist wo went over it's head to create something (deeply) flawed by using the most circumvoluted way possible.

But that's just my feeling on the idea.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
I see it like this, to be put simply. Gods are not gods in the traditional sense, rather, they are the artificial creation of Engwith, a society of high minds and broad concerns. In their time, every people worshiped its own gods, which inevitably led to religious warfare. The Engwithans sought an end to it after a series of devastating conflicts. They devoted all their energy to finding the true Creators. Generation after generation, they analyzed the fabric of the world and unlocked its secrets, mastering the science of animancy. One day they found an answer - except the answer was no answer at all. There were no gods to be found. Or if there ever were, they were gone. It was a terrible shock to them: If they could discover this on their own, how long until others would? How long before war and chaos reigned over a world without consequence? To prevent this scenario, they used their mastery of animancy to create their own gods to fill the void, utilizing a massive adra-powered machine at Sun in the Shadow to harness the souls of thousands of Engwithans assembled in the chamber - men and women, children and the elderly, all they could find - spawning the known pantheon. Each of them was crafted from an ideal, to give the kith not one, but many meanings to choose from in life. The surviving Engwithans then sent missionaries to the corners of the world to spread their faith.

The missionaries knew the secret, but never revealed it to anyone. They refrained from marrying, voluntarily extinguishing their bloodlines to minimize the risk of exposure. The entire project was almost ruined when Iovara ix Ensios learned the truth, by accident, due to careless missionaries discussing the subject openly at one of their temple.Her defiance and determination to expose the missionaries and their gods as fraudulent eventually coalesced into a popular movement that only grew bolder as the Inquisition formed and retaliated against Iovara and her followers - many of whom were former members of the missionary force. The size of the movement threatened to destroy the fledgling faith, until Thoas, one of the authors of the divine project, captured her at Ossionus, destroying her body at the Court of Penitents and imprisoning her in the adra cells below.

The belief in the gods Engwithans created spread throughout the world, eventually becoming the one true faith of the kith of the world, and their nature successfully obfuscated by Thaos and the Leaden Key.
 

Deleted member 20284

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,889
Not a chance in hell.

Zero credible reproducable evidence in the history of our entire species.

I refuse to indoctrinate my children but we celebrate Christmas out of family and national based traditional.
 

Air

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,262
Yeah. I've explored a lot of different beliefs and perspectives and am pretty sure I'm on the money with this.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
I mean, what you said is the textbook definition of the Argument of Incredulity.

You don't understand how it could have happened so you find it too incredible when science already has answers or the answer is "we don't know yet", therefore some higher being.

But the only confirmed truth is agnosticism. We don't know, We'll probably never know.

To be a firm denier airs the stance of dictating that Spirituality (notice I didn't say religion) is false. And that that option is confirmed off the table. If the current scientific answer is "We dont't know yet".

Then the only remaining option is Agnosticism, reasonably. Denying is using the same Incredulity that believing would use.

There is no proof a higher power exists, there is no proof that it doesn't either.
 
Nov 27, 2017
18
I was atheist until the age of 28 (two years ago) but now I'm Chris Pratt levels of Christian. It took plenty of quickly answered prayers before I was convinced.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,563
Absolutely not, but do what you gotta to get through life. Just don't push it on other people.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,141
No. God is just a puppet for humans to control and hurt others. Humanity would be further along without the idea from human rights, territorial disputes, equality, climate change, etc.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
Well, if someone created us, even if using the billions and billions of years of apparent random events and evolution, it's still : "someone created us". I don't know. It's... Underwhelming to me.

Like the god would be a crazy scientist wo went over it's head to create something (deeply) flawed by using the most circumvoluted way possible.

But that's just my feeling on the idea.

Its not a being to me. Its not an image or an embodiment. Its a force. Its life in itself. Its beyond the physical.
 

activepassive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Cincinnati, OH
Yes, I do. I'm a practicing Christian. When you get back to the Origin of the Universe, it is impossible for science to explain something coming from nothing...so it's all philosophy at that point anyway.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,092
its human nature to find patterns and determine a cause to them, and when you cant find the cause of a perceived pattern, you invent one

But then what created human nature?
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Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,936
OK. So you can see what I've been saying (even through my poor presentation) about it being a personal outlook. Not an indictment on the character of random people on random forums who I will never know. The stretch to "other" people that just look at a rule book when we all just live by the same standards (sometimes) is nuts. My first comment was absolutely an honest assessment of what I lived to get right. I'm still not there, but hey. Nobody is interested in that story though, and that's the way some people like it. I guarantee that these comments that are calling me out of my socks today would be grateful for me practicing what I believe tomorrow.
Anyway, thanks for actually taking a minute to engage.
Sure. And sorry for misunderstanding your post. There was no other way for me to read that.
I still think that you could make a difference between self determination and being self centered. I mean, don't be too hard on yourself.
You can determine the direction of your life while also choosing to be less self centered. I think most people do that anyway as they grow older. Most, certainly not all. I hope most of us here just try to live happy lives without hurting the happy lives of others and help where we can.

Anyway, best of luck in your path to wherever you want to be in a couple of years.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
I don't see how you construe that way. Give an English course and dissect it for me?

No. God is just a puppet for humans to control and hurt others. Humanity would be further along without the idea of religion, and further along when it comes to human rights, territorial disputes, equality, climate change, etc.

I dunno, this just reads better. More clear, clean. A bit less internet snappy but got some punch.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,708
New Orleans
I did until I was in my early 20s, but around that time I reached a point where I could no longer say I believed.

I do hope there's something after death, but I'm skeptical of anybody purporting to know what, if anything, lies in wait.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,640
I grew up in a Christian family. It wasn't until my late 20s when I completely rejected the notion. Even now there is always this small voice in the back of my head that keeps trying to tell me this is a test and not to lose faith. I know that might sound odd, but that's what happens when you are indoctrinated as a child.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Nope

Never found a need to believe in a higher power, perfectly comfortable knowing the universe and world are chaos and we're lucky enough to be alive.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,141
Is it though? I think religion, or a belief in a god was a necessary or at least unavoidable adaptation of our evolved neocortex. Or at least a belief in an afterlife.
Why?

Did God or religion help with early hunting? Is it directly attributed to many of the ideas that pushed humanity forward technologically? What about socially? Religious people help furthering humanity doesn't mean religion or God is the source. It's a foolish statement to rewrite human ingenuity as humans being hopeless and required God.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,092
Why?

Did God or religion help with early hunting? Is it directly attributed to many of the ideas that pushed humanity forward technologically? What about socially? Religious people help furthering humanity doesn't mean religion or God is the source. It's a foolish statement to rewrite human ingenuity as humans being hopeless and required God.

Everyone's born with a belief which can be interpreted as God i think you know this
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,141
No. God is just a puppet for humans to control and hurt others. Humanity would be further along without the idea of religion, and further along when it comes to human rights, territorial disputes, equality, climate change, etc.

I dunno, this just reads better. More clear, clean. A bit less internet snappy but got some punch.
You just added unnecessary words.
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
Why?

Did God or religion help with early hunting? Is it directly attributed to many of the ideas that pushed humanity forward technologically? What about socially? Religious people help furthering humanity doesn't mean religion or God is the source. It's a foolish statement to rewrite human ingenuity as humans being hopeless and required God.
Humans evolved that part of the brain for a reason. I'm just spitballing here.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,141

ninjabot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
734
Im intrigued on why such a concept would be considered a fallacy however. IMO Man claiming any certainty within determining such a truth would be considered arrogance. All of this is above us in terms of complexity and certainty. I dont feel my philosophy betrays my core agnostic beliefs. I don' t know and quite possibly ever know. I just choose to lean towards the side of a greater force, essentially Spirituality

If they have no evidence, sure, I'd agree. But the argument is a fallacy not because people think they've proven it wrong, but because it hasn't been proven correct.

One's inabiilty to understand something doesn't make any and all stances that you can understand more valid/likely to be true in comparison, because if neither of them have evidence in favor of their validity, neither should be accepted until that point.

I'm an atheist, but I don't make the claim that there is no god or gods. I simply reject the claim that there are any until such a time that there is evidence that proves it.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
But one is always more likely and the rational stance to select. Especially when we have historical data on how religions are formed, evolve and die out.

I'd be the first to say Religion is a tool but Spirituality doesn't come from nothing as it has trended throughout all cultures of the world.

I feel like 'rational' is a charged word in these discussions because it betrays the subject matter. Science, Logic, Rationality, these are concepts of the human mind. Their extent of grasp is limited to our current perception and understanding. When talking about a Higher Power, of course such a concept will be inherently part of Incredulity.

You're basically throwing out a human 'ERROR' message. We don't know anything, we just came up with names and labels to help us process it all.