Let's complain about broken cards and combos on Trading Card Games

Hassansan · Aug 12, 2018

Never played vs them but I came into Pokemon Online while this was into it's way out, but I heard a lot of horror stories (basically discard ur deck and power up the night march attack).

I always disliked how oppressive the meta is in Pokemon, the gulf between a meta deck and a "for fun" deck is big, bigger than any other cards game I played.

Imperfected · Aug 12, 2018

bangai-o said:
So, what is the deal? Gain control of opponent, and during that turn forfeit the game?

You can't concede, but you can run all of their monsters into your gigantic 13/13, cast their removal spells on their own creatures, use any of their available sacrifice outlets to just churn up their board, etc.

It's technically possible to have a board state where Emrakul's stolen turn doesn't actually result in that much, but in the meta the card was played in it was extremely unlikely.

RedHoodedOwl · Aug 12, 2018

Fj0823 said:
Still is.

They try releasing more "Pot of" cards with more restrictions every now and then. They still get banned or limited most of the time

Is Rose Lover a limited card in the TCG?

Deleted member 24021 · Aug 12, 2018

signal · Aug 12, 2018

It's always funny to see the art on some of the totally OP cards in games not really matching how powerful they are. I don't play magic but remember when I first saw these cards I was like "dam.....these must be unstoppable........" only because of the art and names lol.

Fj0823 · Aug 12, 2018

RedHoodedOwl said:
Is Rose Lover a limited card in the TCG?

Not in Advanced Format.

Though I've heard it's pretty nasty on Duel Links (Speed Format)

Imperfected · Aug 12, 2018

signal said:
It's always funny to see the art on some of the totally OP cards in games not really matching how powerful they are. I don't play magic but remember when I first saw these cards I was like "dam.....these must be unstoppable........" only because of the art and names lol.

I mean, those are amazing cards in control decks and staples in Commander.

The entire card archetype is even still referred to as "Wraths".

signal · Aug 12, 2018

Imperfected said:
I mean, those are amazing cards in control decks and staples in Commander.

The entire card archetype is even still referred to as "Wraths".

Oh ok. Well as it should be then! At least compared to "magical scientist" lol

Metroidvania · Aug 12, 2018

Yeef said:
"You know that good back-and-forth we had going for the last 15 minutes in this game? Yeah, none of that mattered."

New Emrakul is nasty for being able to get the casting cost down, but I think the old annhilator Emrakul with Show-and-tell/sneak attack is far worse.

Annhilator is ridiculous for a keyword.

RedHoodedOwl · Aug 12, 2018

Fj0823 said:
Not in Advanced Format.

Though I've heard it's pretty nasty on Duel Links (Speed Format)

It's one of the various reasons why I dislike Sylvans decks.

It’s Time To Go · Aug 12, 2018

Pokemon Catcher used to be OP in the Pokemon TCG. Is mewtwo EX still OP too?

Fj0823 · Aug 12, 2018

CormoranStrike said:
Pokemon Catcher used to be OP in the Pokemon TCG. Is mewtwo EX still OP too?

Pokémon has set Rotation, EX is old news GX is the new hot shit

Matsukaze · Aug 12, 2018

chaosaeon said:
And almost every 3rd effect on Planeswalkers in Magic. I dislike them for about a dozen reasons including this. Check out the 3rd effects on these. The other player goes down to 1 life. Remove every card from the other player's deck except 1. Destroy every one of the other player's lands.

I stopped playing Magic for 10 years so had no idea it had these, so coming back to it it feels real weird to see "character cards" that you can summon. Feels more like those characters are more important than you as a Planeswalker and half of them look like anime characters.

Planeswalkers aren't broken. Most of the time, planeswalkers will be dead long before their ultimate can be fired off.

Metroidvania said:
New Emrakul is nasty for being able to get the casting cost down, but I think the old annhilator Emrakul with Show-and-tell/sneak attack is far worse.

Annhilator is ridiculous for a keyword.

I like that Mark Rosewater's own response to the public reaction to Annihilator was "We did too good a job making the Eldrazi terrifying" lol

LucidMomentum · Aug 12, 2018

MY JAWS THAT BITE

MY CLAWS THAT CATCH

and

YOU REQUIRE MY ASSISTANCE

Are voicelines in Hearthstone that signify you basically have lost lol.

Jabo · Aug 12, 2018

chaosaeon said:
Remember when Blue Eyes was a "legendary dragon" and super powerful lol. Here's an immortal one that only gets stronger, and due to how broken special summons are, you can summon it in one turn.

Beelze isn't a broken card. There are so many ways to deal with it that it's a non-issue.

HotsauceDragon · Aug 12, 2018

Yoshimitsu126 said:
That Revival Jam, Jam Defender, Card of Safe Return, and Slifer the Sky Dragon was ridiculous on the anime. Almost as ridiculous as the fact that Marik didn't anticipate a single card (brain control or any other mind control effect) can make the combo backfire and cost the game.

I never played YGO (was playing MtG at the time) but I this was the first episode of the anime I saw on TV, and I stuck around because I thought it was great that they put a character accidentally decking themselves into an episode.

Maledict said:
A relatively more recent broken card was Skull Clamp, which everyone missed and resulted in the entire format being broken until it was banned. Wizards wrote a really interesting article about how it slipped through the net which is worth reading to this day:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/skullclamp-we-hardly-knew-ye-2004-06-04

That card itself looks innocuous and just 'decent'. Turns out it was utterly broken.

I use this card as an example of one of those "if everybody must use it, nobody should use it" cards.

Your deck has to either have Skullclamps, or have Skullclamp in its crosshairs - a definitive case of a card "warping the metagame." Look, for example, at the Top 8 decks from Ohio Valley Regionals. Or at those from the more recent German Nationals. Combined, those 16 decks contained 58 out of a possible 64 Skullclamps. Never in my memory have I ever seen a card show up in those numbers.

Man, Skullclamp was 14 years ago. How time flies.

lacer · Aug 12, 2018

Fj0823 said:
He also got the YGO combo a bit wrong. But I think his general idea of what makes a broken deck boring is spot on.

I let the YGO blunder slide because he said he never really played it.

Guess he doesn't know either game well lol

the Shudderwock otk is kind of an odd example of 'breaking the game,' since it's a combo deck that wins when it's working as intended and not due to programming errors or a balance oversight. i'm guessing he's relatively new to the game given how he's doesn't have a familiarity with some of the mechanics, but also because shudderwock came out just under a year before Blizzard released a card that allowed you to really break the game - shadow visions, which lets you discover a copy of a spell in your deck, including a second copy of shadow visions, combined with two cheap minions would reduce the mana cost to zero, which allowed you to keep discovering copies of SV ad infinitum. iirc if you were to do this, the animations on your opponents side of the client would continue even after the timer for their turn had started, which they couldn't skip, which effectively allowed you to skip your opponents turn.

that's a better example of 'breaking' the game imo, though there are some semantics with how that's defined i suppose. that might not make for as juicy a video though, as blizzard started banning people who were doing this after it became well known and they patched it out quickly

Yeef · Aug 12, 2018

bangai-o said:
So, what is the deal? Gain control of opponent, and during that turn forfeit the game?

Not quite. You gan control of the opponent and just have them use all their stuff against themselves. Then, after you've used up all of their good spells to cripple them, they're left with trying to find a way to deal with a massive flying creature.

Metroidvania said:
New Emrakul is nasty for being able to get the casting cost down, but I think the old annhilator Emrakul with Show-and-tell/sneak attack is far worse.

Annhilator is ridiculous for a keyword.

Aeons Torn is stronger on the raw power level, but generally you answer it or it just kills you right away. (It's not uncommon to see Oblivion Ring effects sided in against sneak and show). Promised End comes out quickly even in a 'fair' decks and completely makes everything else that happened in the game before it was cast meaningless since any counter play that might be had will be wasted when the other player takes your turn.

Blank · Aug 12, 2018

Fj0823 said:
No.

They centered around Yata-Garasu. Thank you for bringing that BS into this thread

You either won by the bird or lost by the bird

Usually people used this other OP fucker to leaveyour field with nothing.

Then use the bird to take 100 LP and prevent you from drawing next turn. So your opponent has no option but to pass the turn.

Repeat 80 times. Win.

Toons are good today though. Thanks to great new cards and the Xyz and Link mechanincs

I remember both those cards being banned, but now years later I'm not understanding the combo. Wouldn't chaos emperor kill YOUR entire hand/field too? So how would Yatu stick around?

Flaurehn · Aug 12, 2018

This little asshole was way more broken than Shudderwock, the amount of bullshit this card enabled was enough to give me nightmares

Fj0823 · Aug 12, 2018

Blank said:
I remember both those cards being banned, but now years later I'm not understanding the combo. Wouldn't chaos emperor kill YOUR entire hand/field too? So how would Yatu stick around?

Both of these were banned too, but now they're back after a heavy nerf

Zukuu · Aug 12, 2018

+

Very easy to do and instant win in most cases.

edit: Just saw it posted.

Mush · Aug 12, 2018

There's obviously far worse stuff that has been around in YGO but the ones I can actually remember as I was playing when they were a thing was the Cyber Stein OTK (Clear field > Play Cyber Stein > Pay 5000 and summon Cyber End Dragon > Play either Limiter Removal or Megamorph > Attack face for 8000 damage) or the Wind-Up combo which would discard your entire hand and leave you staring down a pretty big board that you were very unlikely to comeback from.

Deleted member 5745 · Aug 12, 2018

I miss this combo from the glory days of X-Sabers.

And I was there when this card was at 3.

Fj0823 · Aug 12, 2018

This one was awful back in the day

That Pokémon you spent some turns powering up with energy for that cool attack?

Screw you, out with the energies

Cup O' Tea? · Aug 13, 2018

signal said:
It's always funny to see the art on some of the totally OP cards in games not really matching how powerful they are. I don't play magic but remember when I first saw these cards I was like "dam.....these must be unstoppable........" only because of the art and names lol.

I had heard about the Wrath of God card when I was in primary school but wasn't sure it actually existed. Mind blown.

SaviourMK2 · Aug 13, 2018

Mezentine said:
All the EX, GX, eta ultra powerful cards in Pokemon that have a downsize of "costing two prizes when knocked out" or whatever just made me completely check out of playing the TCG online. The way that the game plays with all of them dominating even the casual online meta just is completely the opposite of the version of that game I want to play

That's why I stick to theme deck battles, it's more fun

Qvoth · Aug 13, 2018

Teferi%252C%2BHero%2Bof%2BDominaria%2B%255BDOM%255D.jpg

maybe not broken but definitely top tier planeswalker currently
i made 2 for my mill deck in mtga :P

NineConsonants · Aug 13, 2018

Cosmic Encounter isn't a TCG, but this card was so broken that they had to replace it. Left side is the broken card, right side is the replacement.

Rvaan · Aug 13, 2018

Fj0823 said:
No.

They centered around Yata-Garasu. Thank you for bringing that BS into this thread

You either won by the bird or lost by the bird

Usually people used this other OP fucker to leaveyour field with nothing.

Then use the bird to take 100 LP and prevent you from drawing next turn. So your opponent has no option but to pass the turn.

Repeat 80 times. Win.

Toons are good today though. Thanks to great new cards and the Xyz and Link mechanincs

Oh Yata Lock. That brings back memories. The day I got my Chaos Emperor Dragon was the day I won my first tournament. That deck was so busted that I think at least half of it ended up on the first banned card list.

AbortedWalrusFetus · Aug 13, 2018

Waaaay back when I first started playing MTG my brother would just run channel fireball on me if I was ever playing a non blue deck and it was annoying as shit.

Fj0823 · Aug 13, 2018

NineConsonants said:
Cosmic Encounter isn't a TCG, but this card was so broken that they had to replace it. Left side is the broken card, right side is the replacement.

End this thread

This card literally says, "you can cheat at the game, just don't get caught"

Lmao

Farrac · Aug 13, 2018

I know it's been mentioned already, but the Shudderwock video in the OP is infamously terrible for many reasons I don't feel the need to get into.

From all the Yu-Gi-Oh! combos mentioned in this thread I think the only true OP combo was the Yata Garasu lock. The others are broken cards but can be fought against in some fashion. The Yata Combo completely locks you out of the game if you don't have an answer to it.

Also, isn't it funny that Firewall Dragon is supposed to be Yusaku's Ace Card yet he NEVER uses it. I think we may have seen it like...5 times? The Code Talkers are the real ace cards.

Deleted member 225 · Aug 13, 2018

Quest Mage in Hearth isn't a broken deck, but it wasn't fun to play against with Ice Block. I was glad it was put in the Hall.

Fj0823 · Aug 13, 2018

Farrac said:
I know it's been mentioned already, but the Shudderwock video in the OP is infamously terrible for many reasons I don't feel the need to get into.

From all the Yu-Gi-Oh! combos mentioned in this thread I think the only true OP combo was the Yata Garasu lock. The others are broken cards but can be fought against in some fashion. The Yata Combo completely locks you out of the game if you don't have an answer to it.

Also, isn't it funny that Firewall Dragon is supposed to be Yusaku's Ace Card yet he NEVER uses it. I think we may have seen it like...5 times? The Code Talkers are the real ace cards.

VRAINS sucks even at giving the cards any respect to make them iconic? *pretends to be shocked*

Remember Yugi talking about how much he likes DM? Jaden bodying Aster thanks to Neos? Yusei fighting the whole society to get Stardust back?

That gave meaning and importance to the cards. Yusaku pulled Firewall out of his ass and is never treated as anything special...or used at all

Yet many cards keep getting hit insteaf of FWD because Firewall is too "Iconic"....FOH

Cokie Bear · Aug 13, 2018

The problem with Shudderwock was that it cancelled your turn. The animations ran so long that your turn got skipped entirely. It was a completely no interactive deck to play against. That doesn't happen any more since they limited the number of battlecries and increased the animation speeds, but forcing your opponent to skip their turn was broken as hell and ultimately just not fun to play against.

ReiGun · Aug 13, 2018

I have to believe Konami either hasn't figured out how to balance Duel Links or just doesn't care to.

First Cyber Angels and stall decks. Then when we at least got CA outta here, here come the Aliens. Then just as we figured out how to deal with Aliens came the Sylvans. Mother Fuck Sylvans. Of course, Amazoness came right behind them along with Spellbooks. They thankfully nerfed Amazoness and Sylvans, and they keep shitting Cyber Angels, but now almost everyone is playing either Spellbooks or Fur Hire and the game is just not fun.

The problem with all these decks is that they're so powerful and require so little to actually run. They neutralize most of the opponent's options and once the board is set up, you're basically just watching the other person win. And worst of all, they're not even fun to play yourself. They run pretty much on autopilot, especially since the chance of bricking is so low in DL.

The boring ass meta has made me pretty much quit the game.

fulltimepanda · Aug 13, 2018

This is part of why I enjoy the commander format so much in MTG. Politic, beat down and stay alive until these combos go off.

Recently picked up each of the C18 decks and quickly modified the Aminatou deck;

it's -1 ability reads;

-1: Exile another target permanent you own, then return it to the battlefield under your control.

I added Felidar Guardian & Altar of the Brood;

Basically once you get Altar & Felidar Guardian you can go into an infinitely mill your opponents decks. Have Altar & Aminatou out, play felidar, flicker Aminatou, on return -1 to flicker felidar to flicker Aminatou etc.

Played 5 games Friday night, after winning the first one with this combo, everyone was on red alert. Altar was basically removed on sight each game after but was a heap of fun trying to work around it. Going to try and build around the manifest mechanic with the deck next to cheat out big cards.

Feral · Aug 13, 2018

well Felidar was banned in standard for good reason. They messed up the wording on an otherwise very mediocre card. Then did it again soon after with Hostage Taker, but that got errata'd before the release when the community caught it thanks to the set leak

Hoo-doo · Aug 13, 2018

Damn, Yu-Gi-Oh card art is so damn bad. How.

MarioW · Aug 13, 2018

TheDestructiveSquirrel said:

I know someone that has 22 copies/variants of this card. They keep their MTG collection in a 6ft tall safe.

Nemesis Warlock · Aug 13, 2018

chaosaeon said:
And almost every 3rd effect on Planeswalkers in Magic. I dislike them for about a dozen reasons including this. Check out the 3rd effects on these. The other player goes down to 1 life. Remove every card from the other player's deck except 1. Destroy every one of the other player's lands.

Planeswalker ults are balanced in standard by the fact that they almost *never* go off.

First, they usually take at *least* three turns to trigger, given you can only trigger one ability per turn, and second, Loyalty is also the "health" of the Planeswalker.
You can very easily stop someone triggering an ult by throwing a damage spell at it (And most damage spells have been errataed to be able to Target Planeswalker as well).

Mind you, occasionally Wizards can screw up the rules... introducing Copycat from Kaladesh standard!

Felidar Guardian:

Plus Saheeli Rai:

1: Play Saheeli, +1 her to do 1 damage to the opponent.

2: Play Felidar Guardian, ETB effect targeting Saheeli.
Saheeli is exiled, then returns to the battlefield. Because of a rules fuckup, she's considered a new Planeswalker ETB, so you can use her ability again.

3: +2 Saheeli, targeting Felidar Guardian.

4: A new Felidar Guardian ETBs, Target Saheeli, Rinse, Repeat until you have an infinite army of 1/4 robot cats with haste you can bash your opponents face in with.

OrangeNova · Aug 13, 2018

Let's talk about the Final Countdown!

The card.

This card was incredible bullshit that didn't really get noticed until there was WAY too much utility to make it more annoying.
The two things people didn't realize about this card were as followed

20 turns is only 10 of your turns, one of which is the turn you activated it
It does not stay on the field

What that means is your opponent has 10 turns to get your life points from 6000 to 0, and if they couldn't stop it at activation, it's the final countdown baby.

A lot of people when this card was released, splashed it in because, it's goofy and an alternate win condition, but as time went on the deck got more and more absurd.

Why attack my opponent? I don't need that, let's strip out all of the cards that are there to deal damage.
I need counters in my deck, and I don't care what my opponent really has, so Dark Draw is a great card that I can run 3 of.
Need to get Final Countdown in my hand fast, Magical Mallet, Reload, and the glory card, Upstart Goblin. Who cares if my opponent gets an extra 1000 LP.
What if my opponent can't attack? (This is where it gets silly folks)
Run cards like Threatening Roar(End the battle phase), Thundering Ruler(No battle phase), Waboku(No battle damage), Winged Kuribo(No Battle Damage), One day of Peace(Draw cards and nobody attacks for 2 turns).

You basically stalled out your opponent as they pull their hair out in frustration trying to end the game before their 10 turns were up.

It's now Limited to 1 in a deck in TCG, making it a hell of a lot less consistent, and not really viable anti-meta anymore, but goddamn those were some good times.

Sande · Aug 13, 2018

Gravy Boat said:
The problem with Shudderwock was that it cancelled your turn. The animations ran so long that your turn got skipped entirely. It was a completely no interactive deck to play against. That doesn't happen any more since they limited the number of battlecries and increased the animation speeds, but forcing your opponent to skip their turn was broken as hell and ultimately just not fun to play against.

Wait, weren't they supposed to fix this like 3 years ago when some other nonsense combo (Grim patron iirc) was doing the same thing? How the hell was this still a problem?

JJH · Aug 13, 2018

Essentially 11 mana worth of cards in one 6 mana card. Never mind the cycling of your deck. This card was so broke at the time with Paladin God-tier curve.

ReddishGUI · Aug 13, 2018

Flash Hulk

Fj0823 · Aug 13, 2018

OrangeNova said:
Let's talk about the Final Countdown!

The card.

This card was incredible bullshit that didn't really get noticed until there was WAY too much utility to make it more annoying.
The two things people didn't realize about this card were as followed

20 turns is only 10 of your turns, one of which is the turn you activated it

It does not stay on the field

What that means is your opponent has 10 turns to get your life points from 6000 to 0, and if they couldn't stop it at activation, it's the final countdown baby.

A lot of people when this card was released, splashed it in because, it's goofy and an alternate win condition, but as time went on the deck got more and more absurd.

Why attack my opponent? I don't need that, let's strip out all of the cards that are there to deal damage.
I need counters in my deck, and I don't care what my opponent really has, so Dark Draw is a great card that I can run 3 of.
Need to get Final Countdown in my hand fast, Magical Mallet, Reload, and the glory card, Upstart Goblin. Who cares if my opponent gets an extra 1000 LP.
What if my opponent can't attack? (This is where it gets silly folks)
Run cards like Threatening Roar(End the battle phase), Thundering Ruler(No battle phase), Waboku(No battle damage), Winged Kuribo(No Battle Damage), One day of Peace(Draw cards and nobody attacks for 2 turns).

You basically stalled out your opponent as they pull their hair out in frustration trying to end the game before their 10 turns were up.

It's now Limited to 1 in a deck in TCG, making it a hell of a lot less consistent, and not really viable anti-meta anymore, but goddamn those were some good times.

Hey its OP and all. But playing it with the respective song at full blast is still the trollest shit

OrangeNova · Aug 13, 2018

Fj0823 said:
Hey its OP and all. But playing it with the respective song at full blast is still the trollest shit

I ABSOLUTELY did this every time I ran it. The best was finishing the match before the song ended.

Forkball · Aug 13, 2018

I suppose you can pinpoint the moment I was into Hearthstone, but this card was all the rage.

Since there are cards that can inflict damage on your own cards, it was incredibly easy to just plop this guy down and watch him multiply. Unless you had a card that would wipe ALL of them out in one shot it was hard to bounce back. Just google "Grim Patron broken" and you will find countless threads and articles about this card. Blizzard stuck to their guns though and never nerfed him, I suppose many more cards took the mantle of "most broken."

This card may seem comically quaint considering the power creep over Pokemon TCG's twenty year history, but back in the day it was the king of the mountain. Remember haymaker decks? Having a 20 damage attack with no drawbacks was crazy enough, but 40 damage for three? With one neutral energy? Since it didn't have to evolve from anything you could clean clocks in record speed with this thing.

acheron_xl · Aug 13, 2018

No Magic card annoys me by merely existing more than Omniscience. I don't think it's a persistent effect that should exist on a card with no drawbacks at any cost, since costs can always be circumvented.

Let's complain about broken cards and combos on Trading Card Games

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