The amount of 'noise' in today's world

Lentic · Aug 13, 2018

I came across a great video today by Chris Baca, a coffee vlogger:

He really brings up some good points about the way we communicate these days:

"There's unlimited bandwidth on the internet, seemingly. Like, there's no end to content that people can create, but there is limited bandwidth in your own brain and your own life, and I think it's wise to take a step back look at what we're digesting. And just ask ourselves that hard questions, like does this even fucking matter? What's the contribution of this to my own personal growth? Bigger than that, what's the contribution that this makes to my community and the people around me? How is this making everybody better?"

"I think this idea hit me so hard because I'm just as guilty as everybody else. I do the same stuff too. I'll catch myself scrolling through dumb stuff. I'll catch myself reading things that don't matter. They're just fluff. I'll catch myself talking to people who could be dear friends of mine and using random meme language. What the fuck is a meme?! What purpose does it serve? It's dead air."

"I'm communicating in abbreviations and emojis--anything that softens the blow of what I have to say, or make sure that I don't offend anybody or make sure that people don't know the real me. I don't have to invest too much energy into putting myself out there, or going out on a limb creating something that's really personal to me only to have someone say that this is stupid."

"As far as a call to action goes I think the first step is to just be aware. If you're someone who makes things, if you're in some sort of position of power, you have a following. People look at you for anything. Be conscious of what you're putting out. People deserve better."

"When you're consuming things, you should have a standard. You should hold the people who are making stuff that you're putting into your brain your ears or your eyes--you should hold them to a higher standard. You should expect things with substance. You should crave things with substance. You should demand things with substance, and if people can't deliver that you should turn them off."

He references the new Mr. Rodgers documentary as what inspired him to make the video. This is a topic that greatly interests me and it's incredibly relevant these days. We live in an age of shitposting, memes and carelessness. It's definitely started to seep its way into our daily lives as well. You even see it with hate groups co-opting memes and being nihilistic. It feels like everyone is operating on a different page. People are losing their sharpness and focus.

I'm sure most people here, including myself, are guilty of "shitposting" at one point or another. Personally, I've really started to take steps to pay attention to what comes out of my mouth as well as what comes out of others mouths. It really feels like hostility is the default when communicating on the internet. Many times people might even do it playfully and not realize how it's going to be received on the other end.

Have you become more mindful of what you consume? How do you filter out the "fluff" from the stuff that really matters?

Deleted member 2625 · Aug 13, 2018

This is great, thanks OP. I will check out the whole thing later.

His point about memes and emoji reminds me of the thread "demanding" emoji support on the forum and why I disagreed with that idea.

Since moving out of the city I am definitely trying to read more books and less web.

TarpitCarnivore · Aug 13, 2018

I didn't watch this yet but Bacca has been called out by the coffee community for commentary on hiring women and his co-opting of some hip hop culture. Also the guys latest business got tons of press and hype via the very thing he's criticizing.

zoukka · Aug 13, 2018

Apeach said:
Have you become more mindful of what you consume? How do you filter out the "fluff" from the stuff that really matters?

Curated content. You might have a movie buff friend who you can ask for recommendations about good movies. And by "good" I don't mean "recommend me something I already like", I mean good in a sense that they are classics, pivotal titles, experimental titles or otherwise somehow significant pieces of art. Same goes for any other medium, find a good curator.

And to balance out my daily intake of internet I need evenings where you just sit down with people and talk without your smart phones or any other distractions. Preferably with a wide group of different people so it doesn't devolve into an echo chamber at some point.

Terminus · Aug 13, 2018

I agree with the broader sentiment but completely disagree with his point about emoji and/or memes. Like anything else, they can be used or abused. I think it's silly to advocate discarding a tool capable of adding nuance to text, with its notorious tendency toward opaqueness in tone, just because some people use it in a less interesting fashion.

Banzai · Aug 13, 2018

I'm on an online forum with a big gaming component. Fluff and noise is my life, for better or worse.

shnurgleton · Aug 13, 2018

What's wrong with noise friend

large_gourd · Aug 13, 2018

So the thing is - I don't do the stuff he's talking about. I don't know who any of the youtubers he mentions are (i assume they are youtubers), I don't communicate via memes or emojis or any of these kinds of things. It's just not an issue for me, and when I get past those things he's saying, I'm not really sure what he is saying. It seems like he just had a strong reaction to the Mr Rogers doc and wants to be nice and thoughtful, but it's just an impulse.

The issue isn't the 'quality' of the deluge of social content that gets produced, it's the very nature of it. The only solution to it, if you think it is a problem that needs to be dealt with - and I can see myself going that way sooner than later - is to cut yourself off from it to a great extent. I don't mean entirely, although I think there would be nothing wrong with that, but in a serious way including things like this place. Coming to places like this is my expression of the issue he's trying to get at.

It's a good example. ResetEra compared to many places is of a higher quality in terms of how people communicate to each other - certain things aren't allowed, people are expected to type, sometimes at length, and people will read it and even give it a bit of thought. It's got obvious problems but that isn't the point - it's still just another impersonal mass form of communication where there is an extremely low signal to noise ratio. You come here and a flood of things that you never would have thought about or sought out, and would probably be better off for not having done so, come rushing at you and within seconds your brain is in auto-pilot.

I couldn't even guess at the number of threads I've read through that mean absolutely nothing to me. It must be in the thousands. Things which added nothing to my understanding of the world, which didn't make me happy, which basically did nothing except possibly degrade my mind a little further in terms of an ability to be conscious and concentrate on something meaningful.

Discord's become another issue - joining servers related to things I'm interested in and having conversations about absolutely fucking nothing, just filling in time. Twitch has been an issue in the past that thankfully is so palpably superficial, commercial and also just sad that I've managed to lose interest in it - for the most part. When I'm lonely and it's late or I'm REALLY fucking bored, I still find myself resorting to that. What else might I have done if I denied myself that? I mean it could hardly be any more useless. Sitting staring at the wall would be better, because I'd be forced to think rather than put my thoughts on ice.

I'd say I'm addicted to the internet in a very unhealthy way and I want to do something about it. I don't think the solution is looking for more meaningful content, because in the context of a fulfilling life and actually feeling your feelings, that content doesn't exist. I'm not talking about movies, I'm not talking about games. Those things are more substantive and active. I'm not even talking about beneficially useful lines of communication between people of similar interests, or professions. I'm not saying the internet is nothing but a disease, but it is mostly that. The benefits of it make it a necessity in most people's lives now, but we all go so far beyond what is necessary and what is even remotely beneficial in terms of how we use it.

It isn't just about memes or anything like that. The whole thing is fucked and out of whack.

Lentic · Aug 13, 2018

TarpitCarnivore said:
I didn't watch this yet but Bacca has been called out by the coffee community for commentary on hiring women and his co-opting of some hip hop culture. Also the guys latest business got tons of press and hype via the very thing he's criticizing.

Wow, I didn't know that.

Terminus said:
I agree with the broader sentiment but completely disagree with his point about emoji and/or memes. Like anything else, they can be used or abused. I think it's silly to advocate discarding a tool capable of adding nuance to text, with its notorious tendency toward opaqueness in tone, just because some people use it in a less interesting fashion.

I don't think memes or emojis are inherently bad. What's bad is people not thinking and basically being on autopilot going for the lowest hanging fruit. I'm very guilty of overusing "lol" or emojis in messages. On one hand, they are good because they communicate the tone of the message as being light, but it can also rob you of the other possibilities. Though, I suppose the same problem could be said about the use of language in general. The bigger point seems to be about the lack of self reflection and analysis.

Rassilon · Aug 13, 2018

What's wrong with fluff?

Who's to judge what form of information is 'correct'?

What am I a goddamn machine, must I only look at prescribed information proved to better my value as aproductive human entity?

Sorry but this is bs

Next folk will be saying art should be outlawed and children must only study STEM subjects, oh that's already happening.

TarpitCarnivore · Aug 13, 2018

Apeach said:
Wow, I didn't know that.

I don't think memes or emojis are inherently bad. What's bad is people not thinking and basically being on autopilot going for the lowest hanging fruit. I'm very guilty of overusing "lol" or emojis in messages. On one hand, they are good because they communicate the tone of the message as being light, but it can also rob you of the other possibilities. Though, I suppose the same problem could be said about the use of language in general. The bigger point seems to be about the lack of self reflection and analysis.

Look through his IG and you'll see he's very much a guy who is all about social media and Snap/Stories.

Regarding the women thing, on their podcast they had prior to opening their new shop (Cat & Cloud) someone wrote in about hiring women. Their response: women just aren't applying, so ladies just apply.

Lentic · Aug 13, 2018

Unit 333 said:
What's wrong with fluff?

Who's to judge what form of information is 'correct'?

What am I a goddamn machine, must I only look at prescribed information proved to better my value as aproductive human entity?

Sorry but this is bs

Next folk will be saying art should be outlawed and children must only study STEM subjects, oh that's already happening.

People ought to put effort and attention into what they do, no? Since you bring up art, it's especially important for an artist to have purpose and meaning behind something they put out. Otherwise it's just meaningless noise.

Westbahnhof · Aug 13, 2018

He does have some points in general, but overall, this just feels like another "technology is bad, new media are poisoning our children" type of idea.

Socrates famously warnedagainst writing because it would "create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories."

The French statesman Malesherbes railed against the fashion for getting news from the printed page, arguing that it socially isolated readers and detracted from the spiritually uplifting group practice of getting news from the pulpit.

An 1883 article in the weekly medical journal the Sanitarian argued that schools "exhaust the children's brains and nervous systems with complex and multiple studies, and ruin their bodies by protracted imprisonment." Meanwhile, excessive study was considered a leading cause of madness by the medical community.

In 1936, the music magazine the Gramophone reported that children had "developed the habit of dividing attention between the humdrum preparation of their school assignments and the compelling excitement of the loudspeaker" and described how the radio programs were disturbing the balance of their excitable minds.

Media historian Ellen Wartella has noted how "opponents voiced concerns about how television might hurt radio, conversation, reading, and the patterns of family living and result in the further vulgarization of American culture."

CNN reported that "Email 'hurts IQ more than pot'," the Telegraph that "Twitter and Facebook could harm moral values" and the "Facebook and MySpace generation 'cannot form relationships'," and the Daily Mail ran a piece on "How using Facebook could raise your risk of cancer."

Nicolas Carr's influential article "Is Google Making Us Stupid?" for the Atlantic suggested the Internet was sapping our attention and stunting our reasoning; the Times of London article "Warning: brain overload" said digital technology is damaging our ability to empathize; and a piece in theNew York Times titled "The Lure of Data: Is It Addictive?" raised the question of whether technology could be causing attention deficit disorder. All of these pieces have one thing in common—they mention not one study on how digital technology is affecting the mind and brain. They tell anecdotes about people who believe they can no longer concentrate, talk to scientists doing peripherally related work, and that's it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...02/dont_touch_that_dial.html?via=gdpr-consent

Apeach said:
People ought to put effort and attention into what they do, no? Since you bring up art, it's especially important for an artist to have purpose and meaning behind something they put out. Otherwise it's just meaningless noise.

I hate art gatekeeping so incredibly much. Purpose and meaning are nice, but not necessary, unless all you care about is authorial intent.

Jader7777 · Aug 13, 2018

haha lol this thread so random smh XDDDDDDDD

*downs a bottle of Ritalin*

zoukka · Aug 13, 2018

Westbahnhof said:
I hate art gatekeeping so incredibly much. Purpose and meaning are nice, but not necessary, unless all you care about is authorial intent.

I think there's a difference in deeming whole mediums "harmful" as in your examples (where clearly people were afraid of new technology) and separating 'noise' from good content inside those mediums.

Westbahnhof · Aug 13, 2018

zoukka said:
I think there's a difference in deeming whole mediums "harmful" as in your examples (where clearly people were afraid of new technology) and separating 'noise' from good content inside those mediums.

I think you quoted the wrong part of my post?
But yeah, it's not the same. Still reminds me of it though, different flavors of at best.

zoukka · Aug 13, 2018

Westbahnhof said:
But yeah, it's not the same. Still reminds me of it though, different flavors of at best.

(yeah I don't know how to quote quotes lol)

Evaluating content can be elitistic for sure especially when you judge what others consume. It's not completely futile though since most people would prefer to consume better stuff and get better experiences in life. The discussion about this subject gets often heated since nobody wants to hear that their favorite media isn't 'good' and shifting ones tastes/habits requires a lot of effort. Many people believe that as long as they are enjoying themselves it's all that matters. I guess that's a by-product of consumerism since IIRC before that people were more collective minded and valued content with metrics like "how beneficial/harmful is this to me and the society".

Not that I would ever want to go back to any 'good olden days' but I do wish to challenge my own tastes and expand them whenever possible. Also I would love to detect patterns and media that takes away from my ability to express myself and think critically (something that this 'noise' could very well do over time).

SolVanderlyn · Aug 13, 2018

Banzai said:
I'm on an online forum with a big gaming component. Fluff and noise is my life, for better or worse.

On the contrary, I love my laser focused life on this forum. I know what's important to me and don't regret reading about it extensively.

eXistor · Aug 13, 2018

It's why outside of this forum I don't use social media and don't use a smartphone. I'd say a good 80% is unnecessary garbage that just makes your life harder than it should be.

I know what I like and I focus my attention on that, everything else is wasting my precious time.

Lentic · Aug 13, 2018

Westbahnhof said:
He does have some points in general, but overall, this just feels like another "technology is bad, new media are poisoning our children" type of idea.
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...02/dont_touch_that_dial.html?via=gdpr-consent

I hate art gatekeeping so incredibly much. Purpose and meaning are nice, but not necessary, unless all you care about is authorial intent.

Sure, fear of technological advancements has always been a thing, but I don't think it's ever been as justified as it is now. The detrimental effects of the internet/social media on the average person's attention span are incredibly apparent. There are even people who are straight up addicted to their devices. What we have now is just too stimulating.

Maybe curation will end up taking care of the noise, but that has its own downsides. Ultimately, people have to become better judges and dig deeper for themselves.

Banzai · Aug 13, 2018

SolVanderlyn said:
On the contrary, I love my laser focused life on this forum. I know what's important to me and don't regret reading about it extensively.

"Laser focused" might be a bit much, unless you usually exclusively visit gaming side. The front page of offtopic alone has topics about politics, food, music, movies, etc, and I would say none of those discussions are anything more than inconsequential in the grand scheme of life.

I mean I don't care. I live for the mindlessly fun things in life.

The amount of 'noise' in today's world

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