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Polygon: Tyler "Ninja" Blevins explains why he doesn't stream with women
- Thread starter sabrina
- Start date
I'm a pure 100% liberal
Do what you want to do
You seem to want other people to behave in a way you like them to behave
User banned (1 week): Dismissing concerns of sexism, account still in junior phase
I don't blame him at all.......
Lets be real, a bunch (not all) of his fans are just a bunch of trolls that love to escalate everything, and create false rumors which can lead to potential drama/controversy which can give other streamers/youtubers $$$$ when they cover his story.. and it's already happening right now with this article and some gaming news videos too. . I've seen this a lot with other smaller streamers too. .
At this point, i can see Ninja is a guy who wants to be untouchable and not be involved in possible drama. I feel he just hates seeing other streamers/Youtubers getting clicks from using him and his potential drama stories. I would hate it too but that's the media today on celebrities... gonna be difficult to avoid any rumors.
it's his choice if he wants to play with popular women AND men (celebrities just like Drake). There was TONS of drama/rumors going on behind the scenes of them 2 playing. Not sure if he will ever play with him again at this point.
Lets be real, a bunch (not all) of his fans are just a bunch of trolls that love to escalate everything, and create false rumors which can lead to potential drama/controversy which can give other streamers/youtubers $$$$ when they cover his story.. and it's already happening right now with this article and some gaming news videos too. . I've seen this a lot with other smaller streamers too. .
At this point, i can see Ninja is a guy who wants to be untouchable and not be involved in possible drama. I feel he just hates seeing other streamers/Youtubers getting clicks from using him and his potential drama stories. I would hate it too but that's the media today on celebrities... gonna be difficult to avoid any rumors.
it's his choice if he wants to play with popular women AND men (celebrities just like Drake). There was TONS of drama/rumors going on behind the scenes of them 2 playing. Not sure if he will ever play with him again at this point.
I'm sure a bunch of Twitch trolls are sitting at their keyboards going "ahh man, I wish he would stream with one of those females so I can spread rumours about him, what a shame"
If they're going to spread rumours, they're going to spread rumours regardless
User Banned (1 week): dismissing concerns of sexism, account still in junior phase
It's quite funny how a lot of people don't like his decision yet I've only seen a handful of women against him yet SO MANY women are fine with his decision. Here's an example of what Ninja DOESN'T want by a women who HAS played with him.
"Jesus Christ"
Oh just stop it. Stop swing everything as some kind of sleight and that there are many other streams people can choose to watch or not watch in this case. Not everything needs to be drama.
Either engage without huffing and puffing and realize that it's no one's business how things work for him and his wife and everybody is different.
If things would make my wife uncomfortable I would do the same myself.
Okay so lets say that a Gossip Youtuber makes a series of videos, like everyday about how Ninja may have a crush or is possibly dating a female streamer. Gossip youtuber has videos and pictures drawing lines where they dont exist, hinting that Ninja maybe having an affair with said female streamer. People, teens and adults, tweet, constantly at his wife, the female streamer, him, they spam his chat, more videos pop up. Someone in his wifes family gets doxxed, the female streamer gets doxed as does someone in her family or someone she is close to. Other people around them are affected by this and can lead to someone getting hurt both mentally or physically. This can put stress on any relationship not matter if the person knows what really happened.
Have you lived through that type of harassment? It does happen and we have people that have posted tweets about it happening. Ninja wants to avoid that and keep his marriage somewhat sane. Which is reasonable. Its a weird line of thought, and thats pretty much it.
I still dont think comparing a homegrown streamer to a big time celeb is fair or even justified in this case. I am more worried about people getting doxed or harassed. We have had enough of that going through GamerGate with the fake bullshit. Everyone was up in arms over it happening and peoples lives being hurt. If Ninja feels he can prevent that from happening himself then so be it. He plays at a high level on his stream, he makes jokes, plays around with Dr. Lupo or Myth doing funny shit. Does impressions and his pon pon dance.
If any of the above scenario happens, I guess you would just shrug your shoulders and say "Hey, at least Ninja played with a female streamer. Its a shame that they had to go through all that but priorities man"
Nothing is stopping that train but I will say the Fortnite explosion made him do a 180 real quick. PG Ninja is all an act.
Sounds awful, he probably should stop interacting with women altogether, that sure would show those trolls
Does this sound like trolling to you? Does this sound funny to you? Does this make you laugh?
You should read that thread and do yourself a favor.
A better way to embed the important parts of the thread:
The reality of the situation is that nobody knows what kind of insane bullshit being the face of Twitch attracts, and we can't just hadwave it all away because we don't like the dude. For reference, Destiny (the guy who got banned from here) has an entire section on Kiwi Farms dedicated to him where they report him to the FBI for child porn, and his channel is infinitely smaller.
We have no clue what Ninja deals with, and odds are, it's obscenely fucking horrible.
I don't know how him not having women on his stream is going to stop this from happening.
Did... did you read the post I was responding to? The "Jesus Christ" was a direct sarcastic reference to that post.
It is everyone in the industry's business. It's everyone's business who cares about the industry. The representation of women is a big deal and one of the biggest streamers getting away with discrimination says something about the industry. It also says something about the future of other women in the industry. That's other people's business.
If streaming with black people made your wife uncomfortable would that be fine not to? What about any other group of people? Why is it somehow acceptable to descriminate and admit to such in this one instance but almost no other profession around could you get away with having a blanket rule of not working with your female colleagues. Sure no one's saying he literally can't do it. As I've said before, though, he isn't entitled to making tons off this business and he isn't entitled to our respect. If we think he sucks for discrimination then we're free to think that, too.
What's the story here? PM me if you don't want to derail I guess.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns of sexism in a sensitive topic
Very different. This isn't a case of racism. This is a case of him putting his marriage first, which I would do as well. It's not about discrimination, it's about avoiding shit like the stupid internet gossip and mud flinging. It's abojt priorities. If I had to choose between not putting my wife through bullshit like that and having her uncomfortable over meaningless trite lie streaming that doesn't really matter outside our niche... I choose my wife. End of story. There are plenty of other streams.
You may not agree with it, but his marriage and the way he handles it is his business and not ours.
This is different. It's not racism, it's sexism.
He's a public persona with a public business in an industry many people are employed by and enthused by. The way he handled it involves that public business so it absolutely is our business. How he and his wife talk to each other or the type of relationship they have aren't our business. Him discriminating against women who are his colleagues in the profession he chose has nothing to do with his marriage. If he doesn't want to be criticized for his desfrimination then he can either stop doing it or get the fuck out of a business where he has to descriminate to make his wife happy or whatever other excuse he has.
If streaming is meaningless trite then he's free to stop. It isn't though. You know that. I know that. The girls growing up that want a presence in an industry they love know that. His colleagues who happen to be women know that.
You are acting as if he is being deliberate and malicious in his choices.
1. The onus isn't on him to change the entire platform and industry that has cultivated this community for the last 15+ years.
2. Not a single one of us live a life where working with someone else results in ours and their loved ones getting harassed by thousands on people constantly.
3. At the end of the day, he's still trying to maintain the safest possible stream for his family and income above all else.
4. The notion of "just ignore it" or "just stop streaming" is incredibly ignorant. You'd never tell a female game dev to stop making games because of being harassed online.
1. He's one of the largest streamers out there. He's making bucket loads from these people. Maybe it's not just on him but he has a responsibility. At the very least he can't handwave it. He's complicit in continuing it with what he chose.
2. If these people are that terrible then why'd he do this? Why continue? What makes you think this discrimination will make sure it doesn't happen? Generally there's a reason you don't give in to terrorism. Same sort of thing applies here. Because giving an inch does nothing.
3. And he's doing so my perpetuating discrimination. If being safe means discriminating then fuck it. No other job lets you do this. Why should this one? Why perpetuate? Do you think harassment gets better by descriminating against those most harassed?
4. I wouldn't tell a female game dev to stop making games if she was being harassed because that's actually brave. What this dude is doing is putting his tail between his legs and bowing down. This isn't in the same league. He's not fucking persevering. He has the power. When the powerful descriminate that cannot and should not be likened to the oppressed. Seriously what the fuck is this parallel you're trying to draw? This privileged kid can descriminate and keep making money and you're telling me I can't call him out on that bullshit and it's totally the same as a woman trying to persevere in this very field? WTF?
User Banned (3 days): Dismissing concerns of sexism in a sensitive topic
I feel the entire anger and outrage is entirely misplaced, and thats all really. The fact that nearly every popular Twitch streamer has to deal with harassment and attacks of multiple levels, from the way viewers attacked Doc for cheating, Dodger for just dating someone, Destiny for political reasons, and so forth, the problem is absolutely the platform and the industry as a whole. But it's a conversation nobody wants to have as it's easier to just shit on a single person.
As sph3re mentioned and as I've alluded to previously, what exactly is keeping this scary Gossip You Tuber from doing any of the above? You haven't provided any information that would lead us to believe that someone wouldn't still try to make up shit about Ninja to hurt him or his family. This scenario or something like it is possible by virtue of him being mega popular.
Being famous puts stress on a relationship, period. It's not for everyone and not every relationship is strong enough to hold through it. Ninja is a star, the numbers don't lie about this. He also doesn't want to keep his brand solely within the confines of games. He wants to be a crossover star through the relationships he's building with other celebrities. There's a lot of perks to that, but there's a whole host of stress beyond just people being slime going after him and his family. All of which comes with or without him playing with a girl gamer.
To your last paragraph, as I said it's very simple. Yes he can play with whoever he wants. But if he's going to hide behind the explaination of "I want to protect my family" then to me, he's full of shit. Beyond the fact that, as people mention, it's perpetuating a culture directly in conflict of inclusiveness in the gaming community, he's using faulty logic that again, isn't actually solving the problem he's facing. What of the person who harasses him or his family for literally anything else, or still tries to perpetuate a rumor of him messing around behind his wife's back? Are we gonna say "well at least he didn't have an awkward moment with a girl on stream." He's a celebrity. The potential already exists that any number of weird shit will happen with people going after him or his family. Look any Gavin from Rooster Teeth as an example. Some dude straight up tried to break into his house and kill him. People with huge followings are susceptible to these kinds of nut jobs. It's just a fact. Which is why I view this whole "I'm protecting my family" excuse as fraudulent. If he's that concerned about people harassing him and his wife, then stop interacting with the toxic community you're worried about and find something else to do professionally. It would go a much further way of protecting his wife and their relationship from weirdos than just stopping all interactions with girls on stream.
If every popular Twitch streamer has to deal with harassment and attacks - which is undeniably true - why haven't more of them taken the same steps that Blevins has? I've heard of random viewers straight up appearing at the front step of a streamer's door as if they've had an invitation. Yet these other streamers are not ducking all interaction with women.
Either Blevins is doing too much, or the other men don't care about their significant others as much as he does, and when they stream with women they are passively inviting rumours and harassment.
Also, no one here is denying that the problem is Twitch. There was a thread on EtcetEra about why people call platforms like Twitter and Twitch "mistakes", and it is because the people who run them are OK with the sexism and racism and let them continue because turning away a bigot is losing out on money. People aren't saying all the problems of Twitch lie squarely at the feet of Blevins - he's just the story people are talking about at this moment.
Either Blevins is doing too much, or the other men don't care about their significant others as much as he does, and when they stream with women they are passively inviting rumours and harassment.
Also, no one here is denying that the problem is Twitch. There was a thread on EtcetEra about why people call platforms like Twitter and Twitch "mistakes", and it is because the people who run them are OK with the sexism and racism and let them continue because turning away a bigot is losing out on money. People aren't saying all the problems of Twitch lie squarely at the feet of Blevins - he's just the story people are talking about at this moment.
since people seem to like what some other streamers think I just came across this on twitter.
It's quite funny how a lot of people don't like his decision yet I've only seen a handful of women against him yet SO MANY women are fine with his decision. Here's an example of what Ninja DOESN'T want by a women who HAS played with him.
Why did this person get banned?
He posted a picture of what Ninja was talking about and said how more woman who stream on Twitch are agreeing with him than disagreeing. I'm sorry, but that's an uncalled for ban.
Because it's a nonsense strawman argument. No one is saying women should be forced to stream with Ninja even if they don't want to.
interesting and very disappointing that it happens. Its always very clearly visible during and after the streams when a dude streams with another dude or when a woman streams with another woman compared to when a man and woman both play together.
people here saying that the harassment is only on youtube clickbait or twitch chat probably dont really follow big streamers tbh.
hope it gets better but I have no reason to believe it will.
This is just more proof to me that a large subset of Twitch viewers are simply childish. What's really sad is there's no real way to fix it either. Can't teach everyone good manners an even if you just keep banning the problems I'm sure they will just pop up forever.
That user wasn't even dismissing concerns of sexism, all he did was point out what Ninja was saying. You have many people agreeing and disagreeing her, yet this person gets banned for agreeing with Ninja and posting proof of what Ninja said. I already know that women shouldn't be forced to stream with Ninja and what not, but what's being said is that many of the female streamers know what Ninja was saying and agree with him, hell even I've read MANY tweets from females praising him for what he said.
Back when Myth and Pokimane spams were happening, you could not go a few seconds without saying someone bringing her up, now you have some people saying that she used him because he was gaining traction in streaming so she could get more popular.
The fact is, Twitch is cruel place and he wants no part in anything that would cause any pointless drama.
the ability to be anon brings some good and a lot of bad. like you said tho, no real fix and will always be like this no matter what kind of rules Twitch thinks will actually help (which they never really do). Best thing is to let the streamers find solutions to problems streamers have and if not streaming with a dude or girl is a good way to cut down on a ton of harassment then they will do it until there is another solution they find. which sucks but is just going to be part of this process.
I would argue that it is totally possible to teach everyone good manners, but that it will never happen. How? Streamers essentially unionise, with community bad behaviour towards one streamer causing multiple streamers to stop streaming, as a show of solidarity, until civility has returned. What's happening now is that, with Twitch HQ's tacit approval, the community dictates what's allowable, leaving streamers no way to push-back without severe consequences, and potentially losing their audience. A few pages back I used the analogy of a teacher who allows bad behaviour to continue in their classroom, and it eventually moves through the whole school. I, personally, think that is what is occurring now.
Unfortunately, streamers are also - rightfully - scared of losing their audience to another streamer if they decide to temporarily close-up because of toxicity. The only way to side-step this would be to have competing streamers have each-other's backs, so that the audience can't just move to the next-best.
Like I said - it'll never happen.
I completely agree with this analogy. It's like this not just with Twitch but many social media platforms. Where the sexism, the violence, the hate speech and the disgusting memes become the norm. It fucking sucks.
I think people who think that Ninja alone can solve the issues that made him take this stance aren't acknowledging that this issue is much much much much bigger than Ninja.
This grown ass man reminds me of a young Hulk Hogan. "Say your prayers. Eat your vitamins."
He has the platform and audience to better the community. chooses to duck out.
He has the platform and audience to better the community. chooses to duck out.
I have no idea who the guy is but I can understand his point.
Idiots and nerds online have to comment with "are they fucking?"
I'm. Seeing this all the time with some YouTube people I watch. Nostalgia Nerd gets a load of shit regarding him and Octavious Kitten even though he is married.
Idiots and nerds online have to comment with "are they fucking?"
I'm. Seeing this all the time with some YouTube people I watch. Nostalgia Nerd gets a load of shit regarding him and Octavious Kitten even though he is married.
Can you quote this person/these people? It would make it easier to respond to them directly rather than guesss what they said through your words.
This thread is so embarrassing at times.
xQcVerified account @xQc
The whole twitch vibe, interaction with viewers and youtube game changes when playing with a female. It's outside of the creators control but it can be overwhelming to deal with. Some aren't equipped or don't want to deal with that. @Ninja is not a bad person for avoiding it.
11:15 PM - 11 Aug 2018
The whole twitch vibe, interaction with viewers and youtube game changes when playing with a female. It's outside of the creators control but it can be overwhelming to deal with. Some aren't equipped or don't want to deal with that. @Ninja is not a bad person for avoiding it.
11:15 PM - 11 Aug 2018
when you frame it the right way, you can get people to realize that women suffer from endemic harassment in gaming spaces!
("the right way" apparently being how it impacts a man)
Yes, this all happens, why?
Because the relations between men and women in the online gaming space is stuck between "hurr, girls" and the fucking Victorian era.
This is a case of right question, wrong answer.
Stamp out the hate, stop giving further fuel to the notion that any interactions between men and women on the online gaming space can be nothing other than nefarious and make those who are spreading such shit the marginalised ones, not women.
It's hard but that's the right way long term. We won't combat the childish, idiotic mentality that permeates the online streaming world by pushing up barriers between the sexes.
Bad news, Twitch is doing away with communities in September and replacing them with tags. Tags of course are only chosen by twitch itself although you can suggest new ones and hope they get in. Also gotta rely on Twitch staff to mod trolls who misuse those tags instead of the users who've created the communities.
https://trello.com/c/rmJZ6a6R/14-ad...-let-you-describe-your-streams-in-more-detail
Common decency is treating women as people, and stamping out the hate.
To create a comparison. In the UK there was (And always will be to some level) massive problem with racism in the football community. Black players received horrific racist abuse on too many occasions.
The answer wasn't to exclude black people to protect them from abuse, but the launch of the Kick it Out campaign. Something that is ongoing.
The same is needed here. Hate, misogyny and regressive views are poisoning the Twitch community and the online gaming space in general.
The answer is to kick that out too. And you start by treating women like anyone else, as fellow gamers and people. Stop treating women like they're only there as someone to treat as someone to flirt with and the entire basis of his views disappears.
As I said, Ninja has legitimate concerns. His actions are why the concerns exist to begin with and until he realises this, progress will never be made.
You said that as if you're working towards confirmation but aren't sure yet.
It's like watching a light is turning on for people, in real time, to the realization that most of Twitch chat in streams larger than 300 concurrent viewers are childish, immature, cult-like, hive-minded, racist, sexist, meme-spammers. Yes, they are. Yes, it's all of those things.
What happens when a pretty girl appears on screen? "THICC", "can I fucc" and similar if they're being nice (it tends to get much darker). What happens when a black guy appears on screen or when a rap song is played? Black faces spammed, typically with some reference to something being stolen.
In the context of this conversation, there's no amount of decency you can demonstrate that will reverse the nature of Twitch chat or any similar service. It's a complete failure to understand the beast you're dealing with.