He might as well as he's vacating his house seat anyway. Just having to do that might completely derail his attorney general run but if that's what he has to do to clear his name just do it.
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Congressman and DNC deputy chair Keith Ellison accused of domestic violence
- Thread starter xbhaskarx
- Start date
He might as well as he's vacating his house seat anyway. Just having to do that might completely derail his attorney general run but if that's what he has to do to clear his name just do it.
Yeah I hear you. Even if it is emotional gaslighting though that isn't physical abuse, which is what she and her son are claiming.
How would they get all the texts without talking to her...what.
They could have been sent over in an email and the reporters in question could have declined an interview with her based on what they saw.
Didn't say that either.... emotional abuse is awful as well though.
Right, so right now we have some social media posts claiming evidence of physical abuse, no such evidence has surfaced, the press has already looked into it and deemed it not credible, and the person behind these claims is openly lying on social media.
So yeah. Pretty irresponsible to just say fuck Ellison hot takes.
If there is video, then provide it. Not sure what any of the texts she posting is supposed to prove.
User Banned (1 Week): Downplaying concerns of sexual assault, conspiracy theory
This whole thing is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
I was born in March 1988 and grew up in Golden Valley, an inner ring suburb about 3-5 miles west of downtown Minneapolis. So, Keith Ellison and Al Franken were two of the first few politicians I supported. I acknowledge that confirmation bias is going to cloud my judgment. Still, these claims all seem to be missing something
Nevertheless, let's recap what has happened. Allegations of sexual assault by Al Franken were teased by GOP political strategists during the roy moore scandal (a timely coincidence). Then, days later, a conservative pundit came out and said that Al Franken sexually assaulted and groped her on a tour for the troops in the middle east. She released evidence which didn't show him groping her, but which did show him making a completely tasteless groping gesture, without physical contact, while they were in a plane, that certainly could constitute as sexual harassment, but not assault. She also claimed that he forced himself on her, then clarified that he was insistent on practicing a kissing scene they were going to perform on stage for a comedy sketch, that she consented to the practice kiss after initially not wanting to do it.
Shift to present. Al says that he does not rememberthr rehearsal that way, but that he apologizes for any conduct that made her uncomfortable, and that his hover hands photo was disgusting, inappropriate, and that he had no excuses for his behavior but to apologize. She accepted his apology as sincere and said no further investigations or actions were needed.
Now, I went back and watched the footage of the tour to see what the atmosphere was like, and it was VERY raunchy. Performers, including the accuser, grinding each other on stage. Sex jokes everywhere. Sketches with exaggerated physical intimacy played for comedy and entertainment. I could very easily see how people accustomed to physical theater and performing in front of a crowd could accidentally make more grounded media personalities, like panelists, a bit uncomfortable with their sketches and physical conduct in the event of poor communication. That seems to be what happened.
Then, 5 more accusers came out in rapid fire succession. Three were anonymous. One was by a woman who posted a photo of her with Al at the State Fair, and claimed that he groped her ass in public at his booth. Knowing how many eyes would have been present and focused on them, I find the claim possible, but not likely, and probably not intentional (I had some photos myself in college where hands meant for waists accidentally touched buttocks, both as toucher and touchee. Apologies and laughs followed. I imagine that could happen more than a few times for someone interacting with as many people as Franken). The third person was, yet another, conservative media personality. She claimed Al stalked her and sexually harassed her. All he did was call her to continue an argument/discussion that had to be cut short due to time constraints on a radio show. And she threatened to call the police on him if he tried to contact her again.
So, 6 claims, 3 anonymous, 1 with no proof or evidence other than "Yes, I have met Al Franken," 2 by conservative media darlings (one of whom lied, the other who seems to have been pressurred into the public spotlight for a political hit). Combined with Franken's track record and the testimony of his contemporaries, seems like Franken is, at worst, someone who has personal space issues as a result of decades of raunchy antics done in a professional capacity alongside people who are unusually comfortable in their skin, rather than a sexual predator. He was still forced out, while fighting for a good cause, and approaching everything with grace.
Now Ellison is being accused of assault with "evidence" that either shows nothing or doesn't exist.
The texts need to be examined by either the police or a lawyer to help confirm their authenticity. And if they are authentic (which I'm inclined to believe they are), he needs to leave his position and probably spend some time behind bars.
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Man, believe women. Of course. But unless 2 + 2 = 5, this really isn't adding up for me.
So... he "clicked on something and found texts/tweets and a two minute video" and the press looked into this and no one got any of that? None? I have a hard time believing every outlet in MN is so incompetent.
Had to remove the second tweet here because of posting limits, but yeah. This is farcical.
So... he "clicked on something and found texts/tweets and a two minute video" and the press looked into this and no one got any of that? None? I have a hard time believing every outlet in MN is so incompetent.
Had to remove the second tweet here because of posting limits, but yeah. This is farcical.
i don't think insinuations that this is a political conspiracy are useful or in good taste at all. if it's true it doesn't matter why this is being talked about now, and if it's not true there's a million different reasons that someone might do something like this that have nothing to do with right wing hit jobs.
We're really doing this huh? Closing ranks?
Just being a democrat does not automatically make you a fucking saint. They are human beings, and they can also be disgusting predators.
If you're going to go down the path of claiming this as a right-wing conspiracy be careful you don't turn out as the people claiming Roy Moore was the victim of a "liberal conspiracy".
Just being a democrat does not automatically make you a fucking saint. They are human beings, and they can also be disgusting predators.
If you're going to go down the path of claiming this as a right-wing conspiracy be careful you don't turn out as the people claiming Roy Moore was the victim of a "liberal conspiracy".
While I won't automatically condemn Ellison, I think it's pretty telling that, from my perspective, a lot of posters in here are trying to talk around the issue to, essentially, "nothing burger" the situation. There should be an investigation, and if she indeed was not interviewed by the media, that should be an issue worthy of discussion, as well.
When you have multiple independent accusations the odds of them all being false go down to an infinitesimally low probability.
When there's only one, there's a much greater need for caution. Waiting for more evidence before making a judgment isn't a problem, there's no prize for being the first to be correct.
I'm personally skeptical of this and would like to see the evidence beyond that one text exchange, but calling this a rightwing attack on Ellison is dumb and an awful look.
These situations aren't exactly the same though. When the press looked into the accusations towards Moore they uncovered more and more wrongdoing. When the press looked into this they couldn't find anything credible enough to run the story. It might not be politically motivated, but these accusations do seem a bit shaky with the current info available.
Hey I have the right to say "I smell bullshit" if I smell bullshit being used to oust my political advocates
Honestly it's pretty simple. The press didn't believe the accusations credible enough to post. They claim to have proof and yet the "proof" they have shown so far is nothing. None of that occurred with Roy Moore.
So most people are going wait for more information before bringing out the pitchforks. Honestly if they are telling the truth I hope they post their proof soon because they are not doing themselves any favors dragging it out.
Jesus Christ there are chucklefucks who believe that crap?
As I said earlier, the only odd / sketchy part is the claim that the media did not interview her about the allegations.
Bolded part, why? If media was given what she views as evidence of domestic violence, but every media outlet with access to material didn't find such evidence in given material why they should interview her? To ask why she lied to them about contents of material?
Should Ellison be investigated about these accusations? I mean should be really easy and closed case if all hard evidence sons says he has seen exists, release it and that is that. He has to respond to these accusations, but do we expect anything else than hard denial?
Also we may see actual investigation, even if hard evidence sons says exists ends up not existing.
Yes, I'm doubting it existing as media outlets didn't get it.
We simply don't know the full context of the situation. What, if anything, she provided to the media, what she told them, etc. etc.
My parents are super bitter about Franken being forced out.
They can take it to the police and file charges or if they don't want to go that route, have a reputable news agency look at it.
Roy Moore had multiple victims speaking out publicly and/it to the press, with local people testifying to him having ephebophilic tendencies going back decades.
Here we have a woman and her son with a supposed mountain of evidence and a damning clip, but the texts are apparently soggy cereal and the video is nowhere to be seen. The ball is in their court here. And they put it there. No one made this kid claim there's a video, he just did.
I have no issue believing Ellison is capable of going through a bad breakup, is a bit of a mysoginist, maybe even a total asshole. But what's currently out there doesn't add up to being any more than that.
Or... I actually have literally nothing in common with someone like Pelosi and actually want to see her get replaced by an actual socialist, so that scenario sounds perfectly fine to me. The reason the progressive side is losing isn't necessarily due to lack of unity – it might in fact be specifically BECAUSE of unity. Unity with corrupt corporation lobbies rather than unity with the people. As much good as the democratic party genuinely does in terms of social progress, their economic policies lean toward being on the EXTREME right wing. Tax rates in the US are a complete joke.
Not to mention that the concept "believe women" doesn't stop at partisan lines under any circumstance. Fuck every single person actively perpetuating and participating in continued sexist oppression. I couldn't care less about their political views in that case. Get them the fuck outta there.
Being suspect about shit like this due to how disingenuous right wing propaganda is, I can relate to and even understand. But that should never come at the expense of actual victims of abuse. Claiming that without any proof and if you turn out to be wrong is LITERALLY one of the worst things you can do to victims of abuse and one of the things I chastise people for every single time these sorts of allegations come up. I'm not going to make an exception here or anywhere, to be frank.
If we're going to ask for receipts and evidence here then we sure as hell need to do the same for all other allegations – something I find reprehensible as I'd rather actually show support for victims rather than question them at every step of the way. The police gaslights victims more than enough in these situations already.
So what does believing victims mean to you, specifically?
He can be a scumbag and have a mother who has been a victim of abuse at the same time. That says nothing.
And just to clarify; all of my claims in this thread are based on the premise that he is indeed guilty of these allegations – which I assume in all of these cases because they are statistically true pretty much every time. If this is indeed some fabricated conspiracy by fascists, joke's on me. Until that's proven, I'll stick to believing victims and publicly condemning assailants.
I wouldn't want someone who is even just " a bit of a misogynist" being anywhere near representing me on womens' issues, but that's just me I guess.
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What has happened to him? He hasn't lost his job or anything. Opportunists on the right will call for his removal but of course they will. If there is no evidence nobody will be talking about this a year from now. Most thinking people are absolutely going to say there needs to be an investigation and if this happened it's shameful, and we need to be supportive of the victim and get the facts of what exactly happened.
Investigated for what? Who's gonna investigate? The press was given information and they found there is no story. Should the FBI get involved?
Fascinating how she predicted exactly what was going to happen after this came out.
(11:30-14:00 for the relevant parts)
Think long and carefully about why any person would ever threaten their family's stability and safety to score some fucking political points.
I forget the exact term. Congressional Ethics committee? The same one that Al Franken was under during his scandal.
Problem is there doesn't seem like there is much to investigate
The only thing I am sure of in regards to this, is that the Dems (as an organization) will step on their own dicks in their attempt to deal with it.
It's very difficult for me to pick out a side. Both seem plausible but the evidence should be key. Ellison should submit to an ethics investigation or get the video (if it exists) verified by a neutral party. Just not enough facts to conclude either way.
It's almost like people don't realize that "believe victims" is actually shorthand for "treat all facially plausible accusations fairly and with due diligence," along with a sometimes overlooked heavy helping of "practically no victim enjoys being part of this entire process."
At least this one's open and shut: there's purportedly a video (of exactly what, I'm not sure), and the MN press reviewed text messages somehow.
The weirdest thing is the claim of a video with explicit evidence that hasn't been seen by anyone. Hopefully Ellison allows himself to be investigated, as of now it seems like Ellison may not have treated her right emotionally and the son is blowing things out of proportion.
I didn't say I did myself, I'm saying the accusations being made are stretching believability, despite claims of definitive evidence.
Wouldn't an investigation be a way to check the validity of the video and other evidence if the family doesn't want to make that stuff public (the reason I assume they haven't released it already)?
I mean, that doesn't really make much sense.
He was accused of being emotionally and verbally abusive to his ex girlfriend, very bad if true but not illegal, and physically abusive at least once, which the victim claims was video taped but has not been produced. The media has had the story for a while but ultimately didn't find them credible. Which I think says a lot considering how gung-ho the media typically is for going after Ellison (antisemitism, nation of islam...).
Ellison himself straight up denies it so what is there to investigate? Obviously I am not saying these accusations are false but calling for a congressional investigation seems overblown at this point imo.