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Polygon: Tyler "Ninja" Blevins explains why he doesn't stream with women
- Thread starter sabrina
- Start date
If you enable this behavior of hers it's only going to escalate and you'll both be miserable. Do not let it continue.
Not meaning to come off as judgmental here but it's really not healthy to have your SO get angry at you for just talking to women. I was with a woman like that once and it ended with her getting physically violent with me. Obviously it won't always end that way, just a word of warning.
Nothing smart about excluding a whole gender from people you interact with on streams.
I don't know if he'll be more popular but this battle is already inherently lost. Most people don't find an issue with it.
The world will turn and the sun will rise tomorrow.
Just out of curiosity, why would it be an issue if his partner had an issue with it? It would still be sexist, but moreover, if it isn't sexist, then shouldn't Ninja have just as much say about things he has an issue with as his partner? I mean Ninja is basically saying that he has an issue with the shit his fans would start -- that emotionally it impacts him, and he believes it would have an effect on his family as well.
Yes, I have a huge problem with that. I would never, ever date someone that told me I had to abandon all my female friends. I had a friend once who had a girlfriend like that; unsurprisingly, that relationship was abusive. He was much, much happier when he finally left her and wasn't trapped under thumb anymore.
Man, this topic is just outting a lot of people as truly problematic. There are a lot of people here who I am sure are generally decent, and I'm sure wouldn't like to think of themselves as sexist, but who clearly harbor deeply sexist beliefs.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. If the majority of people here seem to think it is fine then that means that he likely has carte blanche to maintain his sexist ways.
I can see why Ninja thinks that due to Twitch being a cesspool of harassment for anyone who is a minority, women included. But I also feel that he shouldn't completely drop the idea of streaming with a female streamer as long as it's strictly professional. It's like working in a workplace.
It's shitty behavior which he thinks is necessary in a shitty online world. Ideally he wouldn't give a fuck but he took the easy way out. Maybe "smart" is the wrong word.
A lot of women on Twitch are agreeing with Ninja because they themselves have seen this harassment first hand. Some of those people are being posted in this thread but people seem to be ignoring what they have to say.
We should take into account the opinion of the women who have direct experience with this issue.
We should take into account the opinion of the women who have direct experience with this issue.
ITT: People conveniently ignoring everything that makes it hard to defend Ninja.
Like how he's a hypocrite who engages in the same behavior he's defending his wife against. Or how he says that it was completely his decision, not hers at all. Or how he wants to be seen as a positive role model for his young audience.
So no, there's nothing to respect about this because he's a hypocrite. Speculating about his wife's potential feelings is pointless blather because he specifically made this about him.
And no, he doesn't get to "just play video games". Because he himself has said that's not what he wants to do. He wants to put himself on a pedestal? Then you should be sure as hell be ready to tear him back down to earth because that's what we should do to negative role models who are influencing young people.
People need to let him own what he's done himself and stop making excuses that he himself has put to rest.
Like how he's a hypocrite who engages in the same behavior he's defending his wife against. Or how he says that it was completely his decision, not hers at all. Or how he wants to be seen as a positive role model for his young audience.
So no, there's nothing to respect about this because he's a hypocrite. Speculating about his wife's potential feelings is pointless blather because he specifically made this about him.
And no, he doesn't get to "just play video games". Because he himself has said that's not what he wants to do. He wants to put himself on a pedestal? Then you should be sure as hell be ready to tear him back down to earth because that's what we should do to negative role models who are influencing young people.
People need to let him own what he's done himself and stop making excuses that he himself has put to rest.
I would still think it is an issue because streamers streaming together is a form of business partnership I guess and I don't see why someone should blanket ban working with a specific group of people. I don't agree with the stance the streamers have taken.
My previous post was admittedly off topic, I just wanted to say if a partner is paranoid about someone speaking to people of the opposite gender it's not necessarily very bad but that doesn't apply to this situation. The streamers are talking about what their fans think.
So, what you're saying is that Ninja (or anyone else for that matter) should've given up the once in a lifetime opportunity to make millions of dollars and have a comfortable life just because the "responsibilities" that come with being in the public eye ... ?
Hmmm
I dunno about anyone else, but I'd take the money too.
"Listen to women, guys! But only these select few women that justify my sexist worldview..."
This is absolutely correct. Some of the people flaming Ninja in this thread are intentionally completely ignoring the voice of the people who they should be listening to the most.
It's almost like he claimed the responsibilities himself when he decided to call himself a role model.
Once you get to a certain level of fame rumors can start no matter what you do and don't do. Ninja excluding a group of people based off of their sex sends a negative message to his viewers, which i believe are young. "Don't hang out with those types of people because your peers could talk about it in a negative way". Not a good look for him.
This reminds me of an article about Michelle Rodriguez, "People are very interested in what I do with my vagina." She's the best <3.
OP
OP
I made this thread because Meg Turney was lighting up my Twitter feed this morning reposting all sorts of other women who were mad at Tyler Blevins for what he said. In case you don't know her, she's an incredibly popular cosplayer and Twitch Partner, who frequently gets harassment from dozens of communities.
I get harassed on Twitter for being a female game dev.
There are plenty of other women in this thread who have complained about what Tyler said.
So I agree. We should take into account the opinion of the women who have direct experience with this issue. That's why I made the fucking thread.
Hm it seems more like they're saying listen to these people who've gone through similar situations being prominent twitch streamers
I don't really see the problem. He has an image he wants to uphold as a streamer, understands a woman featured on his stream could be a huge target for harassment and would like the focus to be on his content rather than Keemstar-type gossip. I may not agree with his logic 100% but I understand someone with newfound fame wanting to be careful.
There's women who both agree and disagree with what he's done, and both sides have Twitch streamers amongst them. Maybe he should do what more men in positions of influence should do - stand up, be an ally, start a conversation, and improve the environment for all women?
I like how we are doing everything and anything to still put the onus on women as if they are the ones at fault, then turning around and going "Why don't you listen to these women? Maybe you are the real sexists!" garbo
"I understand why someone would threw half the human population under a bus for personal fame and glory".
I'm trying to understand someone would think this way (while not necessarily agreeing with him) rather than just act like he's malicious like you seem to be doing. Saying he is throwing half a population under a bus is a total overreaction and I think you know that.
That's not what I said and I'd appreciate if you kept the mocking to yourself.
I get what you're saying. I tried to look up her tweets but they seem to be deleted. Anyway, my point was to look at women in the Fortnite community specifically. The viewer base of Fortnite is younger and the "shipping" issues and video clickbait issues are extremely rampant. It's not comparable to a lot of other gaming communities. And I'm not saying that the harassment they get is any worse than any other woman on Twitch. I'm saying that harassment specifically connected to "shipping" and gossip about relationships is rampant.
No one is saying that "the women who are complaining are wrong". I'm saying that literally ignoring the posts about women in the Fortnite community talking on this issue isn't right.
First I didn't say that. I didn't say nor did I imply that you are sexist for ignoring those posts.
Second Ninja would literally gain money, fame, and glory by playing with female streamers so I don't know where that idea that he's doing this for his bottom comes from.
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Please point me to my many posts in here blaming women or calling others sexists.
This is a tough issue - on one hand this sets a bad example for Ninja's younger viewers. On the other hand, I would absolutely do as much as possible to shield my spouse from the vitriol of twitch if I was in Ninja's position.
Its too bad garbage posts like this are so prevalent these days, it makes it hard to have a conversation.
Its too bad garbage posts like this are so prevalent these days, it makes it hard to have a conversation.
Whose saying I think he's acting malicious? You can still say a very shitty thing even if that wasn't you intent, like throwing half of the human population under the bus because of the sexist culture that surrounds your lifestyle that you make money off of.
From the OP?
You are here trying to go "but what about other women say?" as if they haven't already been discused here.
I'm sorry, but there is no conversation to be had when people are determined to do anything to excuse a shitty statement that is an insult to women.
Nope was just replying to someone purposely misconstruing other people's words
OP
OP
Actually, you don't get what I'm saying, because if you did then you wouldn't have kept on going anyway.
You really don't think any other community gossips about relationships? You think I don't know what shipping is? You think we don't appreciate that some women have come out in support for Blevins? It's all so sickeningly patronizing, and you think you're up on your high horse but you really have your head in the clouds.
It doesn't stop being sexist that Tyler won't play with women just because the Fortnite audience is especially pernicious. It doesn't stop being lousy that Tyler considers himself a role model but won't figure out a way to model respecting women and respecting personal boundaries. He's personally guilty of shipping and goading other streamers. This is something we have recordings of, as shown in the article I put in the OP.
Finally, some women being okay with X thing doesn't make it not sexist, *especially* when and where several other women are not okay with it.
1. I read the OP and the article. Where did you get that idea from in the OP?
2. I read this thread and no one responded to Valkyrae or Sonii. This happens all the time where people are debating an issue like this one (with a lot of great societal relevance) and people jump on the one shitty post (in this example Hassan's tweets) and ignore the ones that actually bring value to the discussion.
3. Then should we ask a mod to close the thread? If you're saying there's no discussion to be had because you believe one thing and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong why do we have the thread at all? You're lowkey thread whining.
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I think it's a lame excuse on Ninja's part but again, you're simply blowing it up to a ridiculous degree that makes any discussion about this impossible. You basically telling people they can't discuss the topic because they don't agree with one interpretation is also ridiculous. If you want to just be theatrical and not actually have a discussion you probably have a Twitter account to do that with.
I mean, if I am, I'm clearly doing a poor job because you guys are discussing it. And I'm not. And I'm not "blowing this up to a rediculous degree". I'm giving it the same gravitas as Ninja is: placing the blame he put on women right back in his face.
OP
OP
At this point I don't even know if you realize what you're doing. All the comfortable straight white men want is to remain comfortable. And I don't mean like "I have a good job and great friends" comfortable. I mean "it's comfortable to come home and play or watch someone play video games". Because that's just the human condition. You don't want to upset the balance and risk being uncomfortable for two fucking minutes, even if it means everyone will be more comfortable in the long run.
That's why it's always "ooh, let's have a civil discourse" and "I was being polite!" and "I'm a perfect gentleman" ad nauseum. You know what's not fucking civil? Saying that if you're not a man then you don't get to stream with me.
Civility is a pipe dream for minorities and women. All these fucking straight guys think it's so easy to be civil because the game is rigged in their favor. "Look at me, I'm just trying to be nice and civil, because it's more uncomfortable for me to talk about making the world a better place than it is to sit here where it's already comfortable for me!"
I would love to be civil. That would be so nice. But as long as cowards like Tyler Blevins continue to tell children that it's not worth the effort to make the world a better place for women, then civility is something I can never have.
So, as a role model, that is influencing young people and forms our future society, what's the endgame here? Men should only play games with men? Women should only play games with women?
Take it one step further, men and women should never even interact with each other unless they're married? Because otherwise there could be rumours that they're flirting?
lol
Take it one step further, men and women should never even interact with each other unless they're married? Because otherwise there could be rumours that they're flirting?
lol
You don't get what I'm saying because if you did you wouldn't have responded in this way.
> You think I don't know what shipping is?
Never said that. You obviously do know what shipping is.
> You think we don't appreciate that some women have come out in support for Blevins?
You clearly do but that's not what I was getting at. I was saying some of those posts are being ignored while we have almost 2 pages discussing tweets from Hassan.
> It's all so sickeningly patronizing, and you think you're up on your high horse but you really have your head in the clouds.
I mean what do you even say to that.
> He's personally guilty of shipping and goading other streamers. This is something we have recordings of, as shown in the article I put in the OP.
You're trying to equate two friends joking around with YouTube clickbait channels who make shit up entirely for views. It's not even remotely the same and trying to portray Ninja as a hypocrite for that is ridiculous. Even if I DID relent on that point that was 5 months ago. The Fortnite YouTube clickbait channels have largely sprung up during that time period and I know Ninja wouldn't do that today because he knows the effects it would have. So it's doubly wrong to try to equate Ninja joking around with Myth about Poki and the issues Ninja is talking about today.
> Finally, some women being okay with X thing doesn't make it not sexist, *especially* when and where several other women are not okay with it.
You're completely right. But the opposite is also true. You're also equating women outside the Fortnite Twitch community that have direct experience with these issues with people outside that specific community. Which is wrong.
He would lose viewers and get a lot of heat for pulling a move like that. He probably doesn't play with non white people that aren't famous and benefit him (his choice here especially if he has to go out of his way to play with a non white person, not a natural situation), but if he wanted to and his viewers was against it, I doubt that wouldn't be enough pressure to make him do this (the profanity PG situation for example). Rumors of infidelity, jealousy, spending too much time in a hanging out setting, online or not, could jeopardize something he cares greatly about, more than anything else, maybe even the money.
This isn't a standard workplace situation, you're not sitting at a table talking about stats, charts, or usual business stuff, you're playing games, doing the usual stuff you do when hanging out with someone. In the program Second Life you could conduct actual standard forms of work with actual meetings though (recently had to look into that). If he hires a crew this doesn't seem like he's saying that a woman or girl can't work for him (do the people he get to make art for him have to be men or boys? Moderators sex qualification?). I've seen many relationships form over games, marriages, babies, it can easily be professional, easily, but he doesn't seem to want to even risk it due to the no context needed rumor factor.
Anyway, if he ever have a woman or girl on he'd probably have many people in the party, all talking, avoiding any action that make it seems like he's interested in any of them, and ask them to be careful as well, like the profanity thing, though from the sound of it that isn't enough. He's just a dude in his room, playing games with thousands watching him daily as he make money on twitch.
For the Fortnite squad tournaments do he pick his partner? That would be pretty messed up if he refused to team with a woman or girl in those things, especially since they should be random.
Does he do twitch hosting? Is it only men or boys, if so are they friends of his?
Please don't pretend to know who I am or what my experiences are. I'm a black man living in America I know plenty about not remaining comfortable. I've marched against Donald Trump and I've marched with women in the streets of NY to fight for many of the issues you are so clearly passionate about.
When I'm talking about civility, on ResetEra, I'm talking about having an open discourse without resorting to attacking the people you're talking to. That doesn't serve anyone.
He should accept that his actions will be scrutinized and understand that he does influence a lot of people and that this kind of behaviour rooted in society's misogyny/sexism isn't ok and do better. You don't see actors going around being all "I don't want any women in my film/tv show because that might start rumours that could harm my family". They know that with potential success comes visibility and with visibility comes all kinds of unwanted crap. They don't use it as an excuse to pander to shitstains of humanity (well, some scumbags do but not the more progressive/liberal ones) and close off their projects from whole genders/other demographics.
Streaming is a public activity/job and something a lot of people follow, that should come as no surprise in 2018. If you're gonna enter the streaming "business", then be prepared to act like it.
I'd say let the women themselves decide. If there are some women who'd otherwise fit Ninja's streaming buddies who want to stream with Tyler, he should welcome them instead of feeding into the toxic attitudes of the Internet and shut them off only because they are women. If some women don't feel comfortable because of the potential backlash from his fanbase, of course he can't and shouldn't force or pressure anyone into it.
People assuming the identities of others is some shit behavior. I'm neither white or straight so some of y'all really need to slow your roll. People calling for cooler heads and less ridiculous discourse are not always white people, lol.
User Warned: Drive-by commentary, Objectification of women
LOL. We need more cute ladies gaming not less. That is for sure. Why would you not stream with ladies? It doesn't make much sense all told unless you have lost total control of what you do. Some weird issues here."Can't sexually harass a woman if you're not around a woman."
Doesn't change what she says nor what I said. that by accusing those who have a problem with this of "not wanting civil discourse", you posit that the status quo (which DOES primarily protect young white men) is fine and that those who argue against it are "hot headed and for ridiculous discourse". Which is far more damaging to the "civil discourse" than anything that could come from my mouth.
And..."civil discourse", you see how red this thread is? It hasn't been civil from the start, why are you so interested in being civil now?
The people who have been banned seem pretty civil to me. Just because some mod bans someone they disagree with doesn't mean they weren't being civil. Most of the hostility comes from people who go unbanned lol.