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Deleted member 3534

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Hi, you might remember me from such threads as, "I just blindly bought all the SMT games, wtf did I do?" Although that isn't accurate. I just bought 4, 4 Apocalypse, Strange Journey Redux, Devil Survivor 1 and 2 remasters, Soul Hackers, Nocturne, Persona 3, 4, and 5, and Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2. So I'm still missing a bunch of games in the series.

I bought them because the SMT series Fandom has always been like a weird cult. The games seem weird as fuck and I heard you kill God and I'm just down for some weird-ass games. Stories, environments, dialog, etc.

And so I'm about 6 hours into my first SMT experience with SMTIV and I have some thoughts and questions that might be of some interest to longtime fans and newcomers. First, let me get the bad out of the way.

While definitely distinctive, this game feels very flat in its exploration so far. The menu based navigation of the castle and town are quite frankly, quite uninteresting. Human NPCs thus far have been wholly boring and side quests and the main quest story are also equally ho-hum. I've heard story isn't this game's strong suit but I hope it at least gets a bit more interesting and fucked up as the story goes on. I was expecting something reasonably complex from a game intended for adults but it's been standard animu scripting so far. Thinking specifically about the interactions with Navarre and the girl who's name I can't remember. Please tell me if it gets better or at least that the rest of the series isn't like this.

The good, and great, is the battle system and demons. I haven't played a Pokémon-like (sure to piss people off, since this series came first) in a long time. I'm not particularly turned on by games that have you gather familiars that fight on your behalf. But the interactions with the demons is almost always interesting and fun. I haven't been playing for super long so it might get old and predictable the more I go but I'm loving that aspect so far.

Memorable interaction:

Demon: Why do you want me to be your ally?
My response: As fodder for fusion.
Demon: To do such a thing is a crime that goes against nature.

I like it.

Demon has joined your party.

The demon designs are ranging from meh to silly and fantastic. There was a frog demon with a wig and a dress and a Chinese aristocrat looking bird that had me cracking up. I love the demon designs a heck of a lot more than all but the particularly cute Pokémon designs.

The battle system is one of the better purely turn based menu battle systems I've ever encountered. It's fast paced and more strategic than what I'm used to. I find myself really thinking about the most efficient moves I can make before making them. The game definitely punishes you for not using its systems as it's fairly difficult in the very beginning and easy to get wiped in a single turn if you aren't taking advantage of strengths and weaknesses. I also really like how in this game buffs and debuffs seem very effective. Status based attacks not so much, as they miss 99% of the time.

All in all, I'm going to keep playing. Time will tell if the satisfying combat and interesting demons can carry me through to the end as the characters, story, and exploration aren't doing it for me. As of now, I'm leaning positive.

Based on my impression so far, do my concerns translate to the other games as well?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
See, that makes me excited. I want to get invested in this world. I don't need some incredible story, I just want some bizarre setpieces and dark fantasy shenanigans.
 

abrack

Unshakable Resolve
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
DFW
Most of the things you don't like about the game are going to get better as you play further (some only slightly, though). Don't want to say more than that.
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
I thought this would be a thread about the first SMT. Man that was brutal.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,036
Some of those concerns do translate to the other games, but to lesser and stronger degrees depending on the entry. It is a diverse series, though with a strong core identity. I do think you're in for quite a treat. SMT IV is a bit dull at the start too, it took awhile for it to grab me, and while I am quite fond of the game, its a bit low on my list.
 

warheat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
222
How far are you? Still in Naraku? Shit is about to get real pretty soon. My only advice is to use buffs, this apply to almost all SMT games starting from PS2 era.
 

Slime Stack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,189
Puerto Rico
Demon: What do you think I want?

Flynn: Macca?

Demon: Lol no I have no use for such material drivel.

Also demon: I'll take 300 macca.

That happens every time.

Yeah I'm not going to touch the first two games.

Maybe not right now but if you enjoy SMT4 and would like to see how SMT with the oppressive atmosphere turned up to a million than definitely give SMT1 a shot. The game has some legit frightening moments for a Super Famicom game. Way ahead of it's time.
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
I also thought it was going to be about SMT1 :(.

SMT4 is pretty good, but you don't even kill a monster wearing your mother's carcass or can fuse your dog with a demon in it.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
I'm in a forest. Just ran into a guy from the beginning of the game who doesn't seem that friendly anymore
 

Mozendo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,233
Pacific North West
IMO SMT IV is incredibly weak and my least favorite game in the mainline games from what I've played.
The game has a strong start, probably the best in the mainline franchise, but then once you exit Naraku it goes downhill from there. Not only does the game because piss easy, but I just stopped caring for the story. I wouldn't blame you if you lost motivation to play, I did and I have less than an hour to complete the game.
Soul Hackers however is amazing, not a mainline game but I suggest that to play next.

Yeah I'm not going to touch the first two games.
You're missing out then, they're great games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,696
Take it from someone who finished SMT IV literal days ago (and whose only other SMT games until now have been Persona 4 and 5): I had your same concerns about it when I started but they evaporated once you make it through the first 3-5 hours. You're right that first training dungeon is a bit of a slog but it gets far, far better.

I might get some flack for saying this but I recommend playing on Easy to lessen the grind. You only unlock it if you die twice in-game.
 

Zoph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,516
Push through and finish the Naraku dungeon. It's only a few floors but a lot of your concerns about exploration will evaporate after that. Plus, if you're going in blind the reveal is a pretty awesome mindblower :D
 

Sp1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
401
If you think 4 is animu, stay the fuck away from Apocalypse. 4 gets better though. Other than that, all the games are quite distinct. The original Strange Journey was probably the least animu of them all, but they changed the art direction for the worse on 3DS and added some waifu... Digital Devil Saga has a cool setting, but I hated the gameplay (though most people didn't seem to mind it). Can't go wrong with Nocturne and Soul Hackers either.
 

Narco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
201
Carry on. It will get better soon.

However, the best SMT games are, imo, Nocturne and the Digital Devil Saga duology. These three games are masterpieces. Then Strange Journey.
 

Kivvi

Member
Jun 25, 2018
1,708
It gets better. I really love this duology. Both have some problems(4 orientation, Apocalypse more anime stuff) but their are still great.
On a side note, I'm ready for SMT1 probably. Need to play it somehow.
And OP, killing gods gets never old in SMT.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
Nocturne is not any less "anime" than SMTIV lol.

I mean, you're probably right. Calling something "anime" is pretty meaningless anyway. It just seemed like effective shorthand for the OP, since he used the term "animu" in his description of the writing in IV.

And while I don't think that there is some massive tonal or quality difference between the writing in each game, Nocturne has a more mature feel imo, perhaps just as an unintended consequence of its lack of verbosity and overall minimalism.

I would at least say that Nocturne feels less "anime" than Apocalypse, which is closer to Persona on the mostly meaningless "anime" spectrum.

Also, I don't mean to imply that "anime" is a criticism. Hell, Persona 4 is my favorite Megaten game.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,236
I'm not sure starting with IV is the best choice since you might bristle at the lack of QoL in the older games (ignorance is bliss and all that), but glad you're enjoying the series so far.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
I thought about that, but portability is a big factor here as I want to be able to play while I'm at work and in bed.

I'm at Medusa right now. If the twist that just happened is the big twist that everyone talks about, it's kind of hard not to see coming. The very first moments of the game have you running around a modern city street (that's on fire). But I do like the atmosphere that the game's taken a turn for. Unless there's something that significantly damages the experience I can say I'm in it for the long haul. Especially if it only gets better. In fact, I'm looking forward to the other games and wondering what I should play next (after a few other games to space out the experience).

I've got my hands full with kinda shitty demons though and I can't really fuse them into anything useful. Is there a way to store your demons away so they aren't taking up space? Also, I'm not sure I fully get the demon compendium.
 

Jockel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
683
Berlin
Level up a bit so you can fuse better demons. The compendium basically lets you buy back demons you had. You don't have to worry about it, even special fusions that require particular demons automatically fill up the missing ones from the compendium (if you've had them before) - you don't have to go in manually for that.
And the one thing that everybody says: never get too attached to a demon. Fuse em all!
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
A lot of the weirder demon/monster/deity designs make more sense when you look at the mythological inspiration for them. Often it's a fantastical take on elements associated with the creature.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Level up a bit so you can fuse better demons. The compendium basically lets you buy back demons you had. You don't have to worry about it, even special fusions that require particular demons automatically fill up the missing ones from the compendium (if you've had them before) - you don't have to go in manually for that.
And the one thing that everybody says: never get too attached to a demon. Fuse em all!

I'm trying to fuse demons that net me the most balanced attack types and resistances. It's easier to take on bosses if there's at least two demons that can take turns hitting a foe's weakness while the MC supports with physical/gun attacks + items/healing + trading out demons.
 

Jockel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
683
Berlin
If you really want a balanced team you could get some low level demons again and fuse them up to par, inheriting the skills you want. The more effective way is not to have a balanced team, though. Adjust your team to the challenges for ideal results. So find out the weakness of the boss you're facing and focus on that. There will be new demons coming and going all the time, don't worry about getting stuck with a very specifically fused team.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,061
D x 2 is a fine entry point into its systems IMO.
Also, it features best girl Rika.
nas7b5agpzvz55rmzu5g.png
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,363
The Stussining
I'm trying to fuse demons that net me the most balanced attack types and resistances. It's easier to take on bosses if there's at least two demons that can take turns hitting a foe's weakness while the MC supports with physical/gun attacks + items/healing + trading out demons.
Make sure you have resistance to light and dark attacks if this is the strategy you are using. Quite a few demons have insta kill attacks that fall under those elements and the game has no qualms about killing your MC using those attacks.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Okay nerds. Shin Megami Tensei is gud.

I thought about it all day being at work and away from it for a while. I wish I were playing it now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,696
Okay nerds. Shin Megami Tensei is gud.

I thought about it all day being at work and away from it for a while. I wish I were playing it now.

When I was in the throes of my SMT IV addiction I literally brought it to work with me and played it when my boss was out of the office. Probably 5 cumulative hours of the game I played while I was at work. It was real bad for my productivity.
 

Xbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,105
SHMT II is great though, really!

And man, this thread makes me wish I could play Nocturne for the first time again. There is no game in which I invested so much time.

Nocturne is a game that I just did not want to end. I've never quite felt that with a game before. Usually when the game starts getting closer to the end I'm ready for it, but Nocturne had me wishing I could play forever
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

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Oct 25, 2017
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One of the things I'm liking even though it hasn't gotten terribly deep with it yet is the philosophical underpinning to everything. I think there's going to be more than meets the eye with this game outside of the somewhat animu dialog. Time will tell. But some of the interactions with the demons ane bosses suggest something more interesting than the usual straight forward good vs evil. The dragon at the lake for example. I know there are several endings and I'm going to avoid guides on how to achieve the best ending. Something tells me the game will be more personal that way.
 

Narroo

Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,819
Soul Hackers however is amazing, not a mainline game but I suggest that to play next.

.

I've played several SMT games, Persona's 3, 4, 5, SMT IV (Unfinished), and SMT III (Unfinished), and Soul Hackers.

Soul Hackers is by far the best realization of SMT's demon summoner and dungeon crawler mechanics by a long shot. Mechanically, it's great and I do recommend it if you want a truly retro dungeon crawler experience. It's a shame that the story goes nowhere though.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3534

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I'm about 20 hours in and I haven't gotten bored of the combat yet and I'm always excited to see new demons. I don't know where people fall on this but the designs are vastly more interesting to me than Pokémon where the monsters are very hit and miss for me. I always feel like I know what to expect from a Pokemon. The demons here are a constant surprise. I wish there were a bit more variety and perhaps less randomness to the conversations but it's still rather entertaining.

I'd go so far as to say this is the best familiar summoning game I've played e.g. Ni No Kuni, Pokémon, etc.