• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,662
Right it happens with female streamers


Because Gamer bros assume women are into gaming for dudes.

That's still sexism.

It was a female streamer who invited a male streamer onto her stream and people starting making assumptions they were dating. She was a long time streamer before she even brought he dude on. Not sure where you get the impression that people think she was only streaming for guys.
 

Lyon N. Laap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
Why are the defenders STILL ignoring that he does.... the.... exact.... same.... thing to other streamers?

Like you say it's his right to not want aimed at him but skirt around the glaring issue that he does this to others?

Why?

Why are you guys making yourself look like asses by silently supporting the fact that he contributes to said toxic culture?

Because it's easier to either ignore it since it's not really arguable that he's being hypocritical, or to pretend that his hypocritical actions do not weaken his position or is not that bad.

Except it is that bad because he is literally participating in the type of behavior that he says is keeping him from engaging with female streamers. It really is a circular argument given his level of influence and desire to be a role model.

It is a fact that he is contributing to a sexist Twitch culture, just looking at this information and nothing more (there's more). But it's hard to argue against facts.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
United States
I mean, its the "smart" way to go but it's also the cowardly, almost insulting way to go as well. It's definitely a rock and a hard place situation though. I'd be hard pressed to make a different decision/give a different answer were I in his situation.

Stillll...feels a bit cop-out-y but, I doubt I'd take chances when streaming was netting me as much cash as ninja makes. That's some serious money at stake.
 
Nov 12, 2017
727
Why create scenarios when we have his actual reasoning?
You're right, I guess im speaking for other streamers who may be in similar situations. No one should ever be forced to stream with others, what's the point of being an independent content creator then? You play with who you like and can put on a good show with.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,358
It was a female streamer who invited a male streamer onto her stream and people starting making assumptions they were dating. She was a long time streamer before she even brought he dude on. Not sure where you get the impression that people think she was only streaming for guys.

Please look up the history of how men scrutinize female streamers... the assumptions of how they opt to frame their vidoes... A lot of gaming culture assumes women game to attract gamer boyfriends.

This plays right into the issues at hand here
 

D i Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,085
Where X marks the spot.
Because it's easier to either ignore it since it's not really arguable that he's being hypocritical, or to pretend that his hypocritical actions do not weaken his position or is not that bad.

Except it is that bad because he is literally participating in the type of behavior that he says is keeping him from engaging with female streamers. It really is a circular argument given his level of influence and desire to be a role model.

It is a fact that he is contributing to a sexist Twitch culture, just looking at this information and nothing more (there's more). But it's hard to argue against facts.

Let's post this again for the cheap seats.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,320
I don't know what the answer is, and my gut feeling is Ninja's solution is probably excessive, but it's a personal call to make and I'm not about write off the very real harassment and effects thereof by thinking of them as just "rumors". It's some real shit, and you can see above from Dodger's tweets the kind of stuff that can happen.

EDIT: And in response to your question of how I find your Mom example irrelevant, it's because obviously this is only the issue that it is because of the sexism and toxicity in the Twitch, and more broadly, gaming community. There aren't thousands of people 'bout to think I'm dating my Mom, but that isn't the situation here.

My main point is that why is the Twitch community acting like its fucking 6 years old? Literally any woman on stream is going to result with a torrent of nonsense? I made that joke because that's how this shit comes across to me. This juvenile mindset of Boy + Girl = fucking, these are suppose to be grown ass men we're talking about. Thats what makes this so dumb. You and I wouldn't make that connection if you see a boy and girl on the street, so Im not understanding why they go down that route.

Its what makes all of this so dumb, because the community itself are a bunch of elementary school boys stuck in 20+ year old bodies. Thats a problem to me. There is a severe maturity issue.

Anyone versed in Twitch culture should say yes, but what I don't like is the notion that streamers should be forced to play with people they don't want to play with, which some users are saying since it's a "workplace"

Ninja fucked up and said he isn't playing with ANY women. Thats not the response for this. He can play with whoever he wants. But he's the one who came out and said he's not going to deal with it and inadvertently put the onus on women. He could have easily took an opportunity to tell his base to grow up here, he didn't do that.

He's perpetuating the same mindset he may be opposed to.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,662
User Banned (2 Weeks): Downplaying sexism, history of severe infractions.
Please look up the history of how men scrutinize female streamers... the assumptions of how they opt to frame their vidoes... A lot of gaming culture assumes women game to attract gamer boyfriends.

This plays right into the issues at hand here

And you're ignoring all the other streamers who have commented on the issue saying they totally understand where Ninja is coming from.

You're trying to turn this into an issue of sexism when this isn't one. Not that sexism isn't a real problem in the industry, but this is not one of them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
And you're ignoring all the other streamers who have commented on the issue saying they totally understand where Ninja is coming from.

You're trying to turn this into an issue of sexism when this isn't one. Not that sexism isn't a real problem in the industry, but this is not one of them.
Telling women you won't play with them due to their gender isn't literally sexism? Come the fuck on.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,897
I think it's a little unfair to ask this guy to solve society issues, we are the problem I don't expect of Ninja to have the capacity to educate us, it's unfortunate. I won't make popular people responsable from our shitty behavior. Toxicity exist outside Ninja's bubble and I don't think he's encouraging it, he might not be trying to solve the problem but he probably doesn't know how to do it. Page 14 already showed why what he does is alarmingly understandable.

Holy shit, asking him to treat women like normal people isn't asking him to engage in an epic crusade in order to redeem the entire species. No one is asking anything particularly big of him. As a rule of thumb, don't exclude people based on their gender is a pretty reasonable expectation of someone.

Fucking Christ, people.

Sure...Because woman are always so perfect and there arent gold diggers out there who take advantage of rich men am i rite?

You seem to have some pretty toxic ideas about women, man. Women aren't out to get you.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
So do you acknowledge that gaming has a sexist problem, that this guy was himself perpetuating?
I would absolutely say gaming has a sexism problem, there's entirely too many cases to think anything else. Can a woman even get on a microphone on a video game? Of course, but it won't take long for some jack ass to have something to say. So yeah that much is clear.

And I wouldn't disagree that Ninja is not helping things. This certainly isn't.

What I disagree with here is a characterization of him as sexist/misogynistic simply for his (rational) choice.

And yes, it can be rational and also a shit choice at the same time. I guess that's the point where we have to agree to disagree.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Sure...Because woman are always so perfect and there arent gold diggers out there who take advantage of rich men am i rite?

You're banned but JESUS CHRIST how far are you people willing to go to blame women for this?

And somehow gaming culture still doesn't have a sexism problem according to some.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Sonny, the boyfriend of rather popular Twitch streamer Valkyrae weighs in on the topic.
I get this but I think I'd like to see Ninja use his platform to normalize playing with women when he has the biggest audience, is by far the site's most public figure and is known to have a healthy marriage to someone who was also a 'public' figure in gaming. If he attempted to play with women and presented it as a drama free, normal thing to do, it's super beneficial to gaming, women and Twitch. His audience might grow up along with that choice.

That said, it's incredibly easy for someone like me anonymously behind a keyboard to critique his decision when I'm not living my life in the spotlight and don't have to deal with Internet harassment or to think about loved one's and shielding them from all the horrors the Internet has to offer. It's just a consideration I can't even hypothetically make because I'm so far removed from Ninja's current stardom.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,358
I would absolutely say gaming has a sexism problem, there's entirely too many cases to think anything else. Can a woman even get on a microphone on a video game? Of course, but it won't take long for some jack ass to have something to say. So yeah that much is clear.

And I wouldn't disagree that Ninja is not helping things. This certainly isn't.

What I disagree with here is a characterization of him as sexist/misogynistic simply for his (rational) choice.

And yes, it can be rational and also a shit choice at the same time. I guess that's the point where we have to agree to disagree.

I mean he'd have a bit better of a leg to stand on if he wasn't out there doing the sexist shit he's now using as his "rational" reason for excluding all women from his stream.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,320
And you're ignoring all the other streamers who have commented on the issue saying they totally understand where Ninja is coming from.

You're trying to turn this into an issue of sexism when this isn't one. Not that sexism isn't a real problem in the industry, but this is not one of them.

"I don't play with women (who do the exact same line of work as me) because my viewer base (of majority males) may cause drama that could affect my marriage" - Ninja

This has nothing to do with Sexism - MrConbon210
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,662
Telling women you won't play with them due to their gender isn't literally sexism? Come the fuck on.

The same things have happened with female streamers inviting men into their streams. It's an issue with the twitch culture and them seeing relationships where there isn't one. Not an issue of Ninja not seeing women as equals or anything like that.

If Ninja wasn't married and wouldn't get harassment of thousands of people towards his marriage then he would be on board to have women on. You're forgetting that his wife exists and he wants to separate his work from his personal life as much as possible.
 

Proto

Member
Jan 19, 2018
28
I think it's a little unfair to ask this guy to solve society issues, we are the problem I don't expect of Ninja to have the capacity to educate us, it's unfortunate. I won't make popular people responsable from our shitty behavior. Toxicity exist outside Ninja's bubble and I don't think he's encouraging it, he might not be trying to solve the problem but he probably doesn't know how to do it. Page 14 already showed why what he does is alarmingly understandable.

Well stated. Sucks that people act the way they do, but I can't really blame the guy for not wanting to bring unnecessary drama into his personal life because some immature kids on twitch will act like...well immature kids
 
Nov 12, 2017
727
User banned (5 days): trolling
Are you sideline supporting that?
No, I'm saying it's dumb to bring that up as a point as we truly never know a person's true intentions. Assuming stuff like leech or gold digger is never healthy and is a major cause of sexism. Why are men never called gold diggers when men often prefer rich women?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
I would absolutely say gaming has a sexism problem, there's entirely too many cases to think anything else. Can a woman even get on a microphone on a video game? Of course, but it won't take long for some jack ass to have something to say. So yeah that much is clear.

And I wouldn't disagree that Ninja is not helping things. This certainly isn't.

What I disagree with here is a characterization of him as sexist/misogynistic simply for his (rational) choice.

And yes, it can be rational and also a shit choice at the same time. I guess that's the point where we have to agree to disagree.
Hey maybe you aren't the one who gets to decide what is or isn't sexism. Maybe you should listen to people who actually have to deal with this type of shit instead.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,151
Because it's a false equivalence. Some guy running a stream of him playing games isn't the same as a show hosting celebrities around the world. If an actual TV show doesn't invite women (or POC for that matter) and people pick up on that there will certainly be some backlash. However, on Twitch, there are literally hundreds of channels of people streaming solo and no one bats an eye. The two things are not comparable.
They absolutely are, they're both watched by thousands of people, and influence thousands of people. The only difference here is that gaming culture is already toxic towards woman, so who gives a fuck if people exclude them more, right? That's why no one bats an eyelash.

Furthermore, that still doesn't change that it's sexist. It's his prerogative who he has as guests on his stream, but by the same token, everyone else can still call out his decisions for what they are. Sexist. It doesn't matter what his reason is, he is still discriminating women based of their gender. Which is the definition of the damn word.

It's as if you think that just because he can get away with it due to the sexist gaming culture, that it suddenly makes the decision fine? That doesn't negate the fact it's a sexist decision. Nor does it stop people from criticising it.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,816
Argentina
Holy shit, asking him to treat women like normal people isn't asking him to engage in an epic crusade in order to redeem the entire species. No one is asking anything particularly big of him. As a rule of thumb, don't exclude people based on their gender is a pretty reasonable expectation of someone.

Fucking Christ, people.

I didn't mean that, what I say is that by acting like normal people should the audience will answer horribly because well, we are horrible...

Anyway, I didn't read the article, I guess Ninja brought this upon himself afterall and in a way he couldn't avoid what he was trying to avoid. Joke's on him I suppose.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
The same things have happened with female streamers inviting men into their streams. It's an issue with the twitch culture and them seeing relationships where there isn't one. Not an issue of men not seeing women as equals or anything like that.

If Ninja wasn't married and wouldn't get harassment of thousands of people towards his marriage then he would be on board to have women on. You're forgetting that his wife exists and he wants to separate his work from his personal life as much as possible.
Ok but in both of those situations it literally comes down to men viewing women as pieces of meat. Anyone who reinforces those ideas through their actions (e.g Ninja), no matter their intent within their heart of hearts, is doing sexist shit.

His wife also doesn't get to gatekeep other women, what kind of clownish argument is that?
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,320
Bruh quit this "Rational" shit.

Aint nothing being rationalized but how you all find ways support sexist behavior involved with precious Twitch Gamer culture
 

Sarcastico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
774
They absolutely are, they're both watched by thousands of people, and influence thousands of people. The only difference here is that gaming culture is already toxic towards woman, so who gives a fuck if people exclude them more, right? That's why no one bats an eyelash.

Furthermore, that still doesn't change that it's sexist. It's his prerogative who he has as guests on his stream, but by the same token, everyone else can still call out his decisions for what they are. Sexist. It doesn't matter what his reason is, he is still discriminating women based of their gender. Which is the definition of the damn word.

It's as if you think that just because he can get away with it due to the sexist gaming culture, that it suddenly makes the decision fine? That doesn't negate the fact it's a sexist decision. Nor does it stop people from criticising it.

So any and all streamers that haven't streamed with a woman or POC are either sexist or racist?
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,662
Ok but in both of those situations it literally comes down to men viewing women as pieces of meat. Anyone who reinforces those ideas through their actions (e.g Ninja), no matter their intent within their heart of hearts, is doing sexist shit.

I don't really see how people thinking two people are in a relationship is an example of sexism. If you are driving and see a guy and a girl walking together and assume they're a couple, are you being sexist?

Not saying that Twitch watchers aren't sexist and racist, but making a decision to keep your marriage stable isn't really sexist in my opinion.
 

fspm

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,086
This juvenile mindset of Boy + Girl = fucking, these are suppose to be grown ass men we're talking about. Thats what makes this so dumb. You and I wouldn't make that connection if you see a boy and girl on the street, so Im not understanding why they go down that route.

Its what makes all of this so dumb, because the community itself are a bunch of elementary school boys stuck in 20+ year old bodies. Thats a problem to me. There is a severe maturity issue.
Who do you think would shell out enough to make a nobody streaming some shitty game a millionaire, Harvard graduates?

zUSlyhK.jpg
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
My main point is that why is the Twitch community acting like its fucking 6 years old? Literally any woman on stream is going to result with a torrent of nonsense? I made that joke because that's how this shit comes across to me. This juvenile mindset of Boy + Girl = fucking, these are suppose to be grown ass men we're talking about. Thats what makes this so dumb. You and I wouldn't make that connection if you see a boy and girl on the street, so Im not understanding why they go down that route.

Its what makes all of this so dumb, because the community itself are a bunch of elementary school boys stuck in 20+ year old bodies. Thats a problem to me. There is a severe maturity issue.
wait a minute... you know the majority of Twitch viewers are teenagers? they are certainly not all grown ass men and not supposed to be

so yeah with that being the case, obviously it's true there's a maturity issue in Twitch chat, because there are tons of teenagers and even younger!

whether that's a problem, I'm not going to answer that because frankly I don't care and have chat hidden 98% of the time. but clearly you think it's a problem, so what's your REALISTIC solution? in other words, don't suggest for Twitch to disallow teens & younger from watching, because that's not realistic
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,320
So any and all streamers that haven't streamed with a woman or POC are either sexist or racist?

Have they vocalized that they will never do it because "reasons"?

You realize had Ninja just shut his mouth, he'd be protected by his prerogatives? Its his channel, he can bring on who he wants. But the minute he said this dumbshit, he's now towing the sexist gamer line because he's scared of his fanbase.
 

Sarcastico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
774
Talk about false equivalencies and straw men.

Hold on, you said they are the same. If a show does not invite women or POC and people noticed, they will be labeled sexist and racist. Since you think Twitch and TV are the same, then surely the same logic should apply to Twitch streamers, right?
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
If he, as a (very popular) gamer/streamer doesn't want to do streams with women because of rumors people perpetuate and the effects it could have on his marriage, i.e people bombarding his wife with messages, then that's fine.

His personal life takes precedence over what people on the internet think he should do. At the end of the day it would be his life that could possibly be negatively affected and if he wants to avoid that then so be it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
I don't really see how people thinking two people are in a relationship is an example of sexism. If you are driving and see a guy and a girl walking together and assume they're a couple, are you being sexist?

Not saying that Twitch watchers aren't sexist and racist, but making a decision to keep your marriage stable isn't really sexist in my opinion.
This might shock your highly intelligent man-brain: yes, you are indeed being sexist for assuming that. You are also being homophobic, to an extent.

I don't give a fuck about his marriage. I give a fuck about him planting a flag saying women aren't welcome on his stream. I literally don't give a single shit about his reasoning. At all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,671
I don't really see how people thinking two people are in a relationship is an example of sexism. If you are driving and see a guy and a girl walking together and assume they're a couple, are you being sexist?

Not saying that Twitch watchers aren't sexist and racist, but making a decision to keep your marriage stable isn't really sexist in my opinion.
say alot about that marriage if being seen on a twich stream with a woman could cause problems