VICE: We Asked Vegans Why So Many People Hate on Vegans

Boss · Aug 10, 2018

I love how meat tastes. I would love to eat bacon again, and steak again.

I can't though, I care about the planet we live on and becoming vegan was a massive way I could curb my impact towards man-made climate change. I care about animals who are being born just to be tortured, used, and murdered just because we like how they taste. I care about my health, and there are a lot of benefits to a vegan diet. We live in a society, and I feel like the ability to survive on this planet outweighs my pleasure of eating steak. I love dogs, and I couldn't image someone breeding dogs just to torture and eat them, so I don't want to impose that on other animals.

I used to twist myself into knots over why being vegan doesn't really matter, make up a bunch of nonsense to justify it to myself. After talking to a few friends about it, I realized I was being selfish and just didn't want to see the truth for what it is. I'm glad I made the switch.

Not everyone can, and I respect anyone making changes to help curb their impact. Nobody needs to drop all meat and dairy on day one, but I would encourage everyone to start transitioning away from these foods if they're able to. Even if you don't care about other animals, the planet is at risk and we all need to work together to make an impact.

In my experience, it really wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. Nor do I care about what other people think about "vegans", each person is an individual and shouldn't be judged by a label.

Cheesecakebobby · Aug 10, 2018

data said:
Sure, but I would say they want to live. Whenever I see a coackroah, I see it scutter away when I try to kill it.

Also, it's not like I'm giving you a dilemma here. I'm not asking you to house between a cow and a ant. If you saw a cockroach just moping around your house, would you let it live? It's not going to harm you, just eat your scraps.

insects can be a great way for vegans if they think like you where their lives don't matter as much to lower the i environmental impact since plants still require a ton of water and transportation fuel.

I'm sure most people can find any just about anywhere and even potentially make dishes from them.

Don't cockroaches spread disease? The only animals I have wilfully killed since becoming a vegan are mosquitoes because I have bad reactions to their bites, and biting ants because they sent my girlfriend to the emergency room. Maybe cockroaches want to live, i have never read a study about them (movement in response to stimulus doesn't necessarily indicate sentience).

I also don't know about how insects are farmed or packaged for human consumption so can't really comment on the environmental aspect.

data · Aug 10, 2018

DerekOfTheDykes said:
Hey, get that lab-grown stuff on the market and make it affordable and I'll switch in a heartbeat. That's my way of the future.

This. I'd gladly eat lab grown stuff when it becomes affordable.

I'll still kill mosquitos and coackroahes though.

Dr. Caroll · Aug 10, 2018

The thing about veganism is that it is often accompanied by, or associated with, a sort of smug elitism. A glowering sense of morality superiority. The assurance that the vegan has the answer to all life's questions and that the world won't be in balance until everyone is a vegan.

Pandaman · Aug 10, 2018

JustinP said:
This is still a very human centric framing. Imagine these beings are so advanced that they seem like gods to you — they are beyond you, have powers and influence over you that you do not understand. Can we communicate with dogs and dolphins? Sure we can. We teach them tricks. We teach them to serve us. Do we fully understand the communication of dogs? Not yet. But that's not a failing of dogs as much as it is a failing of us — the communication dogs use between each other is beyond our understanding.

Are you suggesting if we cracked that code and could talk with dogs in ways they would more directly understand, that we would treat them more fairly (keep in mind, they still wouldn't be capable of comprehending everything about us, they'd still be at a distinct disadvantage — more disadvantaged, if anything)? Or would we simply continue to use that insight to have them serve us more effectively as we have been for thousands of years as we refine our training and breading techniques? Same for pigs, which are about as smart as dogs?

If we have have the privilege of having some influence on how the next level of intelligence develops, perhaps we should think about these things before we presume our current thinking on how animal hierarchies should work is correct and worth preserving as we move onward.

You devolved into nonsense quicker than most.

your argument could be summarized as:
I cannot provide a rational argument for the value of animal life
Pretend that a being so inscrutable and advanced exists that we could not do the same for ourselves to it.
That'd suck.
Therefore lets be vegans.

The argument has several flaws beyond having to resort to literally incomprehensible hypothetical super beings in order to establish any consequences. Most notably that adopting a different moral position doesn't actually address the problem, are the inscrutable super being to be so impressed by our ethical position that they'll spare our valueless lives? Will these ethical values somehow be imparted to them by way of creation? If so why couldn't we have simply imparted a value for sapience? Are you intentionally acknowledging that just like there was hypothetically no rational defense for human life to the GodAI that there is no rational defense of a dogs life to a human?

Antrax · Aug 10, 2018

xbhaskarx said:
But what if it's true? Like, not just some shit vegans made up to make you feel bad, but supported by scientific research?

This is from June, University of Oxford, published in Science, 119 countries, covering 90% of all human food...

VEGANISM IS 'SINGLE BIGGEST WAY' TO REDUCE OUR ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT ON PLANET, STUDY FINDS
Avoiding meat and dairy could reduce your carbon footprint by nearly three-quarters

Eating a vegan diet could be the "single biggest way" to reduce your environmental impact on earth, a new study suggests.

Researchers at the University of Oxford found that cutting meat and dairy products from your diet could reduce an individual's carbon footprint by up to 73 per cent.

Meanwhile, if everyone stopped eating these foods, they found that global farmland use could be reduced by 75 per cent, an area equivalent to the size of the US, China, Australia and the EU combined.

Not only would this result in a significant drop in greenhouse gas emissions, it would also free up wild land lost to agriculture, one of the primary causes for mass wildlife extinction.

The new study, published in the journal Science, is one of the most comprehensive analyses to date into the detrimental effects farming can have on the environment and included data on nearly 40,000 farms in 119 countries.

The findings reveal that meat and dairy production is responsible for 60 per cent of agriculture's greenhouse gas emissions, while the products themselves providing just 18 per cent of calories and 37 per cent of protein levels around the world.

Researchers examined a total of 40 agricultural products in the study, covering 90 per cent of all food that is eaten.

They looked at how each of these impacted the environment by analysing climate change emissions, water pollution and air pollution.

Lead author Joseph Poore said:

"A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use.

"It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car," he explained, which would only reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

"Avoiding consumption of animal products delivers far better environmental benefits than trying to purchase sustainable meat and dairy," he added.

I think we should reduce our meat consumption and do it without cruelty, but I have to push back on the idea that just cutting out literally all animal products won't have knock-on effects. In particular, in this world where everyone is a vegan, there's no way farm animals don't go extinct. I feel like people making the argument this article makes have some fantasy where cows and chickens and whatnot will still be raised and cared for and all that in sizable populations, I guess just to be petting zoos. But those animals have been naturally selected (by us) over millennia to be meat sacks. That's not really reversible. We intentionally selected the stockiest, slowest, stupidest, most manageable members of the species to raise. Farm cows ain't bulls anymore; predation would do a number on those kinds of animals in the wild, to say nothing of the pest problems they'd present (anyone with farmland would be an idiot to keep their pastures fit for grazing when the cows can't be used).

The target should be reduction (over 50% surely, maybe more), but I'm not on board with 100% reduction. That world is a fantasy that proponents don't want to grapple with (ironically avoiding thoughts about animal cruelty, which is one of their main critiques of non-vegans).

Cheesecakebobby · Aug 10, 2018

Dr. Caroll said:
The thing about veganism is that it is often accompanied by, or associated with, a sort of smug elitism. A glowering sense of morality superiority. The assurance that the vegan has the answer to all life's questions and that the world won't be in balance until everyone is a vegan.

That was never my experience. Vegans gave me information I didn't have and made arguments I hadn't thought of. I was convinced by their arguments and welcomed despite having previously been responsible for animal suffering. I also think it's strange that a lof of non-vegans simultaneously accuse vegans of elitism and of being pushy and preachy - if I wanted to feel morally superior to others, why would I try so hard to convince others to adopt the same morals?

DerbyCityDerek · Aug 10, 2018

JustinP said:
If those animals were advanced enough to be capable of more ethical consumption of food, should they not aspire to that?

I don't know that I'd be trying to change my mind by ACKNOWLEDGING that most animals live on a different tier from people

Like I'm not hardcore on the whole "humanity reigns supreme" silliness, but it should be pretty clear that I don't view the death of an animal the same way I do the death of a person, just like I don't view dying for food the same as murder

Made it pretty clear I can't be guilted here, and I promise you it isn't because I just haven't thought through the fact that things die to put meat on the shelves.

OrangeNova · Aug 10, 2018

JustinP said:
This is still a very human centric framing. Imagine these beings are so advanced that they seem like gods to you — they are beyond you, have powers and influence over you that you do not understand. Can we communicate with dogs and dolphins? Sure we can. We teach them tricks. We teach them to serve us. Do we fully understand the communication of dogs? Not yet. But that's not a failing of dogs as much as it is a failing of us — the communication dogs use between each other is beyond our understanding.

Are you suggesting if we cracked that code and could talk with dogs in ways they would more directly understand, that we would treat them more fairly (keep in mind, they still wouldn't be capable of comprehending everything about us, they'd still be at a distinct disadvantage — more disadvantaged, if anything)? Or would we simply continue to use that insight to have them serve us more effectively as we have been for thousands of years as we refine our training and breading techniques? Same for pigs, which are about as smart as dogs?

If we have have the privilege of having some influence on how the next level of intelligence develops, perhaps we should think about these things before we presume our current thinking on how animal hierarchies should work is correct and worth preserving as we move onward.

No it isn't.

Dogs can't hold a conversation with us, no matter how much we ever understand how they communicate, that's a fundamental fact.

That doesn't make any sense?

We don't though, and if it does, it'll be way WAAAY beyond our lifetime, possibly as a species.

Dr. Caroll · Aug 10, 2018

Cheesecakebobby said:
That was never my experience. Vegans gave me information I didn't have and made arguments I hadn't thought of. I was convinced by their arguments and welcomed despite having previously been responsible for animal suffering. I also think it's strange that a lof of non-vegans simultaneously accuse vegans of elitism and of being pushy and preachy - if I wanted to feel morally superior to others, why would I try so hard to convince others to adopt the same morals?

Fair points, and bear in mind I have no personal objection to people wanting to be vegan and agree with a lot of vegan arguments. What I'm saying is that I think there is a vocal element within communities or movements like veganism that behave in a way that makes people roll their eyes. Not to say that some people don't project their own issues onto vegans.

The saying, "How do you know someone is vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you" exists for this reason. Sure, it isn't fair to the many, many vegans who are lovely, well adjusted people. But it's a stereotype founded in reality.

data · Aug 10, 2018

Cheesecakebobby said:
Don't cockroaches spread disease? The only animals I have wilfully killed since becoming a vegan are mosquitoes because I have bad reactions to their bites, and biting ants because they sent my girlfriend to the emergency room. Maybe cockroaches want to live, i have never read a study about them (movement in response to stimulus doesn't necessarily indicate sentience).

I also don't know about how insects are farmed or packaged for human consumption so can't really comment on the environmental aspect.

I strongly believet they're using less resources than plants due to the chemicals that farmers still have to use for fertilization, pesticide and the amount of water they have to use.

A lot of insects can subsist on a diet of waste.

Instead of killing ants and mosquitos(I'm guilty of doing this), wouldn't it be best to have prevention in the first place so that they do not interact with your body?

I strongly believe the future consists of insects in our diets.

Bramblebutt · Aug 10, 2018

Unless we can substantially clean up the factory meat farming industry, I think veganism is less of a moral argument as it is an eventuality for continued human development. In a hundred years we might look back at animal husbandry in general like we look back at the whale oil industry: it just won't make economic sense.

Cheesecakebobby · Aug 10, 2018

data said:
I strongly believet they're using less resources than plants due to the chemicals that farmers still have to use for fertilization, pesticide and the amount of water they have to use.

A lot of insects can subsist on a diet of waste.

Instead of killing ants and mosquitos(I'm guilty of doing this), wouldn't it be best to have prevention in the first place so that they do not interact with your body?

I strongly believe the future consists of insects in our diets.

Yup obviously I try everything possible short of living in a bubble to reduce my exposure to nasty animals who will cause me suffering. Having said that, I would support using technology to completely rid the world of mosquitoes, such as the current efforts to produce GM mosquitoes whose offspring are sterile. They are responsible for so much suffering of definitely-sentient animals and studies suggest their disappearance would not have a negative impact on the ecosystem.

If studies could show that insects are not sentient to the same degree of certainty that bivalves are not sentient, i wouldn't have a problem with breeding them for human consumption (assuming the level of environmental impact you have suggested)

Tuorom · Aug 10, 2018

Meat is the best source for a few different things (protein, heme-iron, etc.). It has it's place in a human diet. We definitely overdo it though on the consumption.

Also, humans are individuals. Some people will feel better on a vegan diet (I know people who have said as much to me), some people will feel not as good. If veganism works for you go for it. If veganism makes you feel weaker, then maybe your body isn't as adept at processing just plant sourced building materials.

I typically eat rice and beans all week, and then have a meal or two with meat. I feel great, it works for me. I can eat meat everyday and feel great. But I know that's not necessary so I don't do it.

There is nothing inherently wrong with eating meat. Circle of life and all that.

BlackJace · Aug 10, 2018

I mean, I should eat less meat. Way less in fact. And we should dramatically change the way we produce meat, as well as rapidly progress in the development of synthetic meat. No arguments there.

But I'm like, not gonna give up meat entirely while synthetic meat catches up. For a lot of people, including my family, meat is the cornerstone of myriad cultural dishes, and to shame people for enjoying that because of what you read on a blog or something is...short-sighted to say the least.

Cheesecakebobby · Aug 10, 2018

Dr. Caroll said:
Fair points, and bear in mind I have no personal objection to people wanting to be vegan and agree with a lot of vegan arguments. What I'm saying is that I think there is a vocal element within communities or movements like veganism that behave in a way that makes people roll their eyes. Not to say that some people don't project their own issues onto vegans.

The saying, "How do you know someone is vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you" exists for this reason. Sure, it isn't fair to the many, many vegans who are lovely, well adjusted people. But it's a stereotype founded in reality.

No arguments here. Vegans are humans and some humans are assholes so some vegans are assholes. I encourage effective advocacy among vegans and support only those charities and organisations I believe are making a positive impact.

That said, there are obviously many carnists who act as though 'A vegan was mean to me' is a valid reason to continue the unnecessary exploitation of animals.

Deepthought_ · Aug 10, 2018

KillLaCam said:
People on here always seem extreme in comparison to people I run into in real life though. Like 1 person here was saying that not being vegan is somehow toxic masculinity. I'd hope people in the real world wouldn't act like that haha.

Longer than who? I thought all of the counties with the highest average life mostly eat fish and stuff.

Countries with a mostly vegetable diet live the longest meat is a side dish and served in very small amounts

AcademicSaucer · Aug 10, 2018

RastaMentality · Aug 10, 2018

People really underestimate how hard it is for a lot of the american population to get fresh produce at a nearby supermarket. There's food deserts all over.

'3y Kingdom · Aug 10, 2018

Schreckweg 5000 said:
The anger of some non-vegans here is... noticeable

It sure is, and it's very telling.

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 10, 2018

RastaMentality said:
People really underestimate how hard it is for a lot of the american population to get fresh produce at a nearby supermarket. There's food deserts all over.

Lol right? There is a HUGE zone near turner field in Atlanta.

TaterTots · Aug 10, 2018

It's not that I hate vegans, I just don't appreciate the ones who act all high and mighty. Telling me what I should and shouldn't eat and protesting people who choose to eat meat. I understand we aren't meant to eat as much meat as we currently consume. That's why its become unhealthy and I get a conversation around that. However, someone telling me not to eat meat at all is a no go. People say eating beef effects the environment due to the admissions, but if I tell someone I hunt they also try to hang me. More often than not it comes down to someone just not liking the idea of another eating an animal.

As far as hunting is concerned its hard for me to give any shits about someones opinion on the matter because they're always misinformed. You work hard for that meat. It's not like going into a supermarket and just buying shit that is mass produced. You can go years without getting a deer. They don't fuck about. People act like I kill 100's of deer each season or something.

Deleted member 1635 · Aug 10, 2018

Tetrinski said:
We know eating meat is bad for our health,

The reality is the complete opposite, of course. You won't find anything in nature more nutritious and fulfilling than meat and eggs.

Jarmel · Aug 10, 2018

Cheesecakebobby said:
Can you really argue that your momentary taste preferences are worth more than the life of an animal?

Yes. Absolutely yes.

Cheesecakebobby · Aug 10, 2018

Jarmel said:
Yes. Absolutely yes.

Go ahead then. Bear in mind someone else might argue the same to justify beating a dog to death for their own enjoyment.

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 10, 2018

Cheesecakebobby said:
Go ahead then. Bear in mind someone else might argue the same to justify beating a dog to death for their own enjoyment.

lol

ginger ninja · Aug 10, 2018

collige said:
I'm not gonna argue that it's a primary contributor overall, but I don't think it's really deniable that in the US at least, masculinity and meat consumption are pretty closely intertwined. See how BBQ pitmasters are almost exclusively male, stuff like Epic Meal Time, etc. The statistics back it up too.

That just says females outnumber the males in veganism. Quite a leap of logic to compare it with toxic masculinity.

Really shows how lost in the sauces this subject is. People are actually trying to make the argument that eating meat makes one more manly/promotes toxic masculinity. Fuckin lol. That makes a good 5 billion humans more susceptible to toxic masculinity.

Jarmel · Aug 10, 2018

Cheesecakebobby said:
Go ahead then. Bear in mind someone else might argue the same to justify beating a dog to death for their own enjoyment.

Ok. It's ultimately bad luck simply not being at the top of the food chain.

Pretty much every aspect of modern society is built off the suffering of other human beings. I'm not going to sweat the animals.

iRAWRasaurus · Aug 10, 2018

StallionDan said:
Mathusha nails it in first sentence.

true. I just hate those type of people and they want me to hate on whatever they like because of how they act.

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 10, 2018

BlackJace said:
I mean, I should eat less meat. Way less in fact. And we should dramatically change the way we produce meat, as well as rapidly progress in the development of synthetic meat. No arguments there.

But I'm like, not gonna give up meat entirely while synthetic meat catches up. For a lot of people, including my family, meat is the cornerstone of myriad cultural dishes, and to shame people for enjoying that because of what you read on a blog or something is...short-sighted to say the least.

Cultural dishes? No different than Europeans justifying the destruction of native Americans for their own culture /s

Many people don't understand or appreciate how important and connected food is for family, culture, heritage. Not to mention as others have pointed out many areas don't have access to tons of vegetables, fruits, etc.

It's great to be passionate about protecting animals
Or pushing the farming, meat industries to focus more on sourcing and happy hormone free animals but to shame and call for complete abandonment of eating meat is just preposterous and causes the larger message to get lost.

collige · Aug 10, 2018

ginger ninja said:
That just says females outnumber the males in veganism. Quite a leap of logic to compare it with toxic masculinity.

Really shows how lost in the sauces this subject is. People are actually trying to make the argument that eating meat makes one more manly/promotes toxic masculinity. Fuckin lol. That makes a good 5 billion humans more susceptible to toxic masculinity.

I fully acknowledge that there's not a massive amount of data on the subject, but there is at least one widely circulated study that has shown a correlation: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0966369X.2017.1395822?journalCode=cgpc20

That said, my post was mostly just based on common sense and lived experience. I'm making the claim that masculinity promotes meat eating, not the other way around. Also note that I specifically limited my statement to the US.

Deleted member 1635 · Aug 11, 2018

collige said:
I fully acknowledge that there's not a massive amount of data on the subject, but there is at least one widely circulated study that has shown a correlation: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0966369X.2017.1395822?journalCode=cgpc20

That said, my post was mostly just based on common sense and lived experience. I'm making the claim that masculinity promotes meat eating, not the other way around. Also note that I specifically limited my statement to the US.

...23 interviews in Argentina...

"Not a massive amount of data on the subject."

You don't say...

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 11, 2018

Zefah said:
...23 interviews in Argentina...

"Not a massive amount of data on the subject."

You don't say...

Lol

Mammoth Jones · Aug 11, 2018

ry-dog said:
Tone policing the thread

Someone being angry or being a dick doesn't invalidate their points

It absolutely does.

Because no one cares if someone is correct when they are being angry and rude. It just makes them skip right past any "point" and get defensive. Hence many of the responses to that terrible, terrible bland unseasoned post.

Polioliolio · Aug 11, 2018

GrooveCommand said:
As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!

God forbid you have an opinion in a thread concerning your opinion. Apparently people are primed to hate you because words like 'animals are tortured so you can be comfortable in your diet' turns them into victims.

I'm not vegan, but I don't eat mammals, and strive to eat meatless meals more often than not. Thank you for your sacrifice.

Mammoth Jones · Aug 11, 2018

Polioliolio said:
God forbid you have an opinion in a thread concerning your opinion. Apparently people are primed to hate you because words like 'animals are tortured so you can be comfortable in your diet' turns them into victims.

I'm not vegan, but I don't eat mammals, and strive to eat meatless meals more often than not. Thank you for your sacrifice.

I mean have your opinion. I think that's fine. My opinion is eating meat is fine. I'm not going to berate you for not eating meat. Folks shouldn't berate people that do. Then act shocked they ain't winning converts.

Tetrinski · Aug 11, 2018

LinktothePastGOAT said:
We know eating meat is bad for our health? Eating a lot of meat regularly is bad, yes...eating meat in if itsef isn't....

The Cancer Council recommends no more than 65 grams of meat per day, avoiding all processed meats. That's what, two or three chicken wings? It's like saying one drink or one cigarette per week will do an imperceptible damage to your body; it doesn't mean you wouldn't be better without it. Every positive nutrient found in meat exists in plants, so there's that.

I will say this: leaving aside the animal rights concerns, for those who don't see a problem there, if you considerably reduce the amount of meat, specially pork and beef, or switch to poultry, you are already helping the planet enourmously by reducing water consumption and deforestation while improving your health.

Mammoth Jones · Aug 11, 2018

Tetrinski said:
The Cancer Council recommends no more than 65 grams of meat per day, avoiding all processed meats. That's what, two or three chicken wings? It's like saying one drink or one cigarette per week will do an imperceptible damage to your body; it doesn't mean you wouldn't be better without it. Every positive nutrient found in meat exists in plants, so there's that.

I will say this: leaving aside the animal rights concerns, for those who don't see a problem there, if you considerably reduce the amount of meat, specially pork and beef, or switch to poultry, you are already helping the planet enourmously by reducing water consumption and deforestation while improving your health.

I do hope lab grown meat gets affordable. I'd eat that instead. Meat is meat.

Lentic · Aug 11, 2018

I don't do recycling because all these smug libs in my face with their "green" nonsense. Whenever I go to throw out stuff into the trash some smug asshole has to tell me to recycle next time, telling me to "save the planet". Fuck that. Sometimes I gather a bunch of recyclable shit and light it on fire just so see the damn face of those smug bastards as the black plumes of smoke rise into the atmosphere.

I do find it funny though at the lengths some people go to piss off vegans. If you feel confident in eating meat then why try to provoke others?

Deleted member 1635 · Aug 11, 2018

Tetrinski said:
The Cancer Council recommends no more than 65 grams of meat per day, avoiding all processed meats. That's what, two or three chicken wings? It's like saying one drink or one cigarette per week will do an imperceptible damage to your body; it doesn't mean you wouldn't be better without it. Every positive nutrient found in meat exists in plants, so there's that.

I will say this: leaving aside the animal rights concerns, for those who don't see a problem there, if you considerably reduce the amount of meat, specially pork and beef, or switch to poultry, you are already helping the planet enourmously by reducing water consumption and deforestation while improving your health.

There is nothing but suggestions of correlation between meat consumption and cancer, and the majority of the studies are of people eating mixed diets that are also full of plenty of garbage. It's like saying, "Fast food diets are bad and also contain lots of meat. It must be the meat!" There's zero evidence that meat is a direct cause of cancer.

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 11, 2018

Apeach said:
I don't do recycling because all these smug libs in my face with their "green" nonsense. Whenever I go to throw out stuff into the trash some smug asshole has to tell me to recycle next time, telling me to "save the planet". Fuck that. Sometimes I gather a bunch of recyclable shit and light it on fire just so see the damn face of those smug bastards as the black plumes of smoke rise into the atmosphere.

I do find it funny though at the lengths some people go to piss off vegans.

I find it funny how sensitive many vegans are. We have something In common :)

Tetrinski · Aug 11, 2018

Zefah said:
The reality is the complete opposite, of course. You won't find anything in nature more nutritious and fulfilling than meat and eggs.

Not everything contained in meat is nutrients. There are positive nutrients in alcohol, that doesn't make it healthy. "The World Health Organization has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, bacon and frankfurts – as a Group 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer. Red meat, such as beef, lamb and pork has been classified as a 'probable' cause of cancer." An example of what this means: "Cancer Council estimates that in 2010, one in six (or 2600) new bowel cancer cases in Australia were associated with consuming too much red meat and processed meat."

As for your statement, it is wrong. Even leaving aside the cancer risks, eating only meat would eventually kill you of a heart attack or scurvy, for example. However, a person can live a perfectly healthy life by only consuming plants and fungi. Every single nutrient found in meat comes from vegetables in the first place.

Polioliolio · Aug 11, 2018

Mammoth Jones said:
I mean have your opinion. I think that's fine. My opinion is eating meat is fine. I'm not going to berate you for not eating meat. Folks shouldn't berate people that do. Then act shocked they ain't winning converts.

Hm, but he was quoting someone from the article who almost certainly isn't on resetera, so he's not really berating anyone, and I hope you don't think I'm berating you, my only post was in support of the guy who was surely dogpiled for 8 pages.
Also, no need for you to stand up and make a martyr out of yourself unless what he quoted is your exact opinion too.

I think the guy who said 'People don't like to feel bad about themselves' might be right and that could apply here, to why you're popping up to reply to my post which was directed at the vegan guy. You need not though, I don't think I would ever, unprovoked, start discussing vegetarian ideas with meat eaters, and I'm not going to judge you for your own thoughts on the matter. When most people on the earth are meat eaters, it's a little silly to wage war on carnivores, and I think very few vegans fit that stereotype.

Deleted member 1635 · Aug 11, 2018

Tetrinski said:
Not everything contained in meat is nutrients. There are positive nutrients in alcohol, that doesn't make it healthy. "The World Health Organization has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, bacon and frankfurts – as a Group 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer. Red meat, such as beef, lamb and pork has been classified as a 'probable' cause of cancer." An example of what this means: "Cancer Council estimates that in 2010, one in six (or 2600) new bowel cancer cases in Australia were associated with consuming too much red meat and processed meat."

Bunch of nonsense that conveniently ignores everything else those people are eating. All of these studies draw correlations because people who eat like shit also tend to eat a lot of meat. Does not mean that the meat is the culprit.

Tetrinski said:
As for your statement, it is wrong. Even leaving aside the cancer risks, eating only meat would eventually kill you of a heart attack or scurvy, for example. However, a person can live a perfectly healthy life by only consuming plants and fungi. Every single nutrient found in meat comes from vegetables in the first place.

Tell that to all of the people out there that eat just meat or mostly meat and thrive, I guess. No, you don't get scurvy, and no you don't have a heart attack. Everyone dies eventually, so you're going to have to define that one a bit more.

Lentic · Aug 11, 2018

LinktothePastGOAT said:
I find it funny how sensitive many vegans are. We have something In common :)

The difference is that the vegans actually have some sound justifications on being sensitive. I'm not even a vegan and I can say that. The sensitivity of meat eaters essentially boils down to not having a counter argument.

entrydenied · Aug 11, 2018

I know vegetarians and vegans and have never met one who was obnoxious or look down on anyone for being a mest eater.

I do think that in 100 years we would probably all be eating synthetic food that taste the same as what we have and eventually create food that has very little carbon footprint and negative health impact. Society will consider these times to be dark times. So long as we don't perish from climate change by then... It's just that people don't like to be told that what they enjoy might be wrong on the grand scale.

Tetrinski · Aug 11, 2018

Zefah said:
There is nothing but suggestions of correlation between meat consumption and cancer, and the majority of the studies are of people eating mixed diets that are also full of plenty of garbage. It's like saying, "Fast food diets are bad and also contain lots of meat. It must be the meat!" There's zero evidence that meat is a direct cause of cancer.

You should visit the World Health Org's website once in a while. Perhaps read some scientific studies. You will be surprised.

Not that long ago people like you were arguing that cigarettes were healthy.

Deleted member 1635 · Aug 11, 2018

Tetrinski said:
You should visit the World Health Org's website once in a while. Perhaps read some scientific studies. You will be surprised.

Not that long ago people like you were arguing that cigarettes were healthy.

Oh, I read plenty of scientific studies. It's important to look at the content and methodology of the studies and not just the conclusion of someone who read a summary.

You've got it wrong. Not that long ago people were demonizing meat and fat in favor of carbohydrate-laden meals and low-fat sugar-filled foods. Now we have an epidemic of obesity and diabetes. That's what you get when you form dietary recommendations based on trash biased science and industry interests.

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 11, 2018

Apeach said:
The difference is that the vegans actually have some sound justifications on being sensitive. I'm not even a vegan and I can say that. The sensitivity of meat eaters essentially boils down to not having a counter argument.

Lol not at all. The predominant argument of a vegan is the morality aspect. Secondly is the environment impact. Thirdly is our health.

Morality is subjective. Different in different cultures. There are many folks who simply don't see animals needing protecting or that eating them is immoral. No argument to be had. It's a difference of opinion.

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 11, 2018

Zefah said:
Oh, I read plenty of scientific studies. It's important to look at the content and methodology of the studies and not just the conclusion of someone who read a summary.

You've got it wrong. Not that long ago people were demonizing meat and fat in favor of carbohydrate-laden meals and low-fat sugar-filled foods. Now we have an epidemic of obesity and diabetes. That's what you get when you form dietary recommendations based on trash biased science and industry interests.

Yep! Keto is saving people's life. Lowering cholesterol, reducing obesity, etc. margerine was healthy and butter was horrible for you. Now we know it's the opposite.

VICE: We Asked Vegans Why So Many People Hate on Vegans

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