IGN removes their Dead Cells Review, investigating plagiarism. (Update: Writer Responds)

Some thoughts after Splitscreen:

Whoa, plagiarism being an addiction or mental illness is a strong take.

Is plagiarism mainly a bad thing in western culture? Suppose I believe ideas are not private property or cannot be possessed. Maybe I have laxer standards for intellectual property or writing. Do I still find plagiarism deplorable?

People talk about it like it's universally reviled, but it would seem to me it's a matter of perspective. I mean, I have been taught it's bad, sure. But it feels like a vestige of pre-Internet ethics that needn't apply in the modern age, particularly to the type of paraphrased plagiarism Filip was guilty of.

Did they still do the live nvc today? And if so who was the host?

PCPace said:

Did they still do the live nvc today? And if so who was the host?

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Yes, Zach hosted. They also featured the new Dead Cells reviewer after the half.

Nav said:

Some thoughts after Splitscreen:

Whoa, plagiarism being an addiction or mental illness is a strong take.

Is plagiarism mainly a bad thing in western culture? Suppose I believe ideas are not private property or cannot be possessed. Maybe I have laxer standards for intellectual property or writing. Do I still find plagiarism deplorable?

People talk about it like it's universally reviled, but it would seem to me it's a matter of perspective. I mean, I have been taught it's bad, sure. But it feels like a vestige of pre-Internet ethics that needn't apply in the modern age, particularly to the type of paraphrased plagiarism Filip was guilty of.

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Well think of it like this, if someone like Stephen King couldn't make a living writing down ideas then selling them, we wouldn't have Stephen King novels at all.

Intellectual property is protected strongly because without that protection, the incentive for generating "mere" ideas falls off sharply.

I've been briefly following the whole thing and I feel really bad for Filip. I assume his career is over at this point, which is especially bad when hearing he has two kids. What does one do at this point? Go back to school and change profession?

Funny thing: I wasn't interested in the game at all. But because of that "incident" I checked out the OT, bought the game and am enjoying it a lot. Kinda weird that I think this story helped them to get more into the spotlight = gave them additional sales.

Stop biting.

Mr_Kuschels said:

I've been briefly following the whole thing and I feel really bad for Filip. I assume his career is over at this point, which is especially bad when hearing he has two kids. What does one do at this point? Go back to school and change profession?

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You shouldn't feel bad for someone because they have kids or responsibilities. That doesn't negate being a thief or doing a shit job. People deserve second chances for sure, but certain jobs come with more scrutiny. He had to be aware of the consequences of his actions, otherwise he's just dumb.

Nav said:

Some thoughts after Splitscreen:

Whoa, plagiarism being an addiction or mental illness is a strong take.

Is plagiarism mainly a bad thing in western culture? Suppose I believe ideas are not private property or cannot be possessed. Maybe I have laxer standards for intellectual property or writing. Do I still find plagiarism deplorable?

People talk about it like it's universally reviled, but it would seem to me it's a matter of perspective. I mean, I have been taught it's bad, sure. But it feels like a vestige of pre-Internet ethics that needn't apply in the modern age, particularly to the type of paraphrased plagiarism Filip was guilty of.

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If the uncredited appropriation of the work of others is allowed, then there's little reason for anyone to work on anything except reproduction of something someone else did. If you have zero ownership over the product of your own research, experimentation, or creative work, then why bother to produce it? Why bother expending time and resources to build a better rat trap when your work will be reproduced by someone else tomorrow for a lower price, or who already has access to a larger market? Not only will you not recoup your development costs, you will be unlikely to even receive any notoriety for the work which will be produced and distributed far wider than you are personally capable of, by those who already have established production and distribution networks.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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Said low effort Fortnite videos are just a flash in the pan, they're disposable and not something anyone will go back to.

Your 32X review (using one of my favourites as an example) however is something enthusiasts will rewatch and use as a source for technical information 10 years from now.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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A small but devoted audience can be effective through something like Patreon. Not so much through YouTube.

Freshmaker said:

Well think of it like this, if someone like Stephen King couldn't make a living writing down ideas then selling them, we wouldn't have Stephen King novels at all.

Intellectual property is protected strongly because without that protection, the incentive for generating "mere" ideas falls off sharply.

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Static said:

If the uncredited appropriation of the work of others is allowed, then there's little reason for anyone to work on anything except reproduction of something someone else did. If you have zero ownership over the product of your own research, experimentation, or creative work, then why bother to produce it? Why bother expending time and resources to build a better rat trap when your work will be reproduced by someone else tomorrow for a lower price, or who already has access to a larger market? Not only will you not recoup your development costs, you will be unlikely to even receive any notoriety for the work which will be produced and distributed far wider than you are personally capable of, by those who already have established production and distribution networks.

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Thank you. That makes sense. I guess a capitalist economic system necessitates incentives for producing new ideas (e.g. patents, copyright) otherwise no one would, unless their economic system put some alternative incentives in place.

When discussing Filip's situation on Kotaku Splitscreen, Kirk raised an interesting point that when it comes to writing on games, ideas are bound to intersect because so much is created. It makes me wonder if we are moving past the "Stephen King age" due to the sheer abundance of content (at least when it comes to writing on games, it would seem there is no lack of incentive). I also wonder if we'll reach a point soon where AI can write game reviews, maybe even by aggregating ideas from human reviews. AI can already write Yelp and Amazon reviews indestinguishable from human ones, presumably by sampling a very large number of real reviews. That'll probably raise some interesting questions in the plagiarism space and what it means for content to be original down the road.

Nav said:

Some thoughts after Splitscreen:

Whoa, plagiarism being an addiction or mental illness is a strong take.

Is plagiarism mainly a bad thing in western culture? Suppose I believe ideas are not private property or cannot be possessed. Maybe I have laxer standards for intellectual property or writing. Do I still find plagiarism deplorable?

People talk about it like it's universally reviled, but it would seem to me it's a matter of perspective. I mean, I have been taught it's bad, sure. But it feels like a vestige of pre-Internet ethics that needn't apply in the modern age, particularly to the type of paraphrased plagiarism Filip was guilty of.

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So you don't care about other people's work being stolen.

I know this is an partially off-topic comment, but I wish there was this much of a unified stance against developers plagiarizing video game content (I am not sure if plagiarize is the correct word in this context).

To clarify, I know people condemn it, but it happens all the time and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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I feel you.
I try to find time next to work and studies to create Anime Reviews with an actual script, me on camera, providing context, showing actual video footage (always with copyright in mind) and I get less views than some 4min I sit on my ass and show some still image episode review or reaction video.
I stings

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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I'm sorry the world is a shitty place, I might not be part of a big target audience but I adore your work.

Hope you find success in whatever you do.

Nav said:

People talk about it like it's universally reviled, but it would seem to me it's a matter of perspective. I mean, I have been taught it's bad, sure. But it feels like a vestige of pre-Internet ethics that needn't apply in the modern age, particularly to the type of paraphrased plagiarism Filip was guilty of.

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It's not just the words, it's the order and meaning too.

If it was about the words, then we would all be plagiarizing the dictionary. It's the way we organize those words and the meaning we give to that order that matters.

Filip's review literally had the same chronology, wording and meaning, so it's obvious he copied it and changed some words around.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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I know that has to be so frustrating. Your stuff deserves to have far more viewers.

All I can really say is that I love the more technical and niche stuff that you do. DF Retro has become one of my favorite video series, and it has inspired me to try out several games that I never would have played otherwise.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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Heh, I wish I had something inspiring to say here, but I don't.
I got into writing because I was tired of all the shallow reviews that didn't really say anything. That was ten years ago.

Nowadays I can't tell whether I'm making a difference or I'm part of the problem.

Your work is great. Hold onto it.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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Wanted to chime in with everybody else: I love your work and hope you're able to continue doing it.

Hope there's a way we can support you directly some day...

Mercador said:

Where are you been the last 3-4 years? Every award is given to metroidvania indie games :D

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metroidvania != roguevania

And Dan Stapleton continues to bash Filip after he's been fired:

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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I watch all your videos. The retro ones are my favorite. Just work hard for ME, personally. Cuz i'll be disappointed if DF and NXGamer 's shit loses some of it's luster. You guys are doing a great job. And can i say "FUCK FORTNITE"? Cuz fuck fortnite.

Seems like a silly thing to jeopardize your career over.

ZiggyPalffyLA said:

And Dan Stapleton continues to bash Filip after he's been fired:

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I don't see how that's bashing anyone.

Halation Ablation said:

Seems like a silly thing to jeopardize your career over.



I don't see how that's bashing anyone.

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I mean, he's been fired. No need for anyone at IGN to even continue discussing this publicly.

So why is this still being discussed.... Guy plagiarized, got caught, then fired...end of discussion right? What is people arguing about now?

Asking IGN to have caught something like this is entirely absurd. Watching every video on the internet to look for plagiarism is just silliness. Better to trust employees and react if necessary, because most employees in that position will take their work seriously.

A good working condition requires having trust in employees. If they fuck up that sucks, but it's better than monitoring everything they do with an overwhelming iron fist. Their work will suffer for that, or they'll just leave.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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To be perfectly honest, this is a kinda silly stance to take. That's why you guys get 3500 dollars on Patreon, so you don't have to rely on mere viewer numbers. If you really measure the worthiness of your work by the number of clicks under the video you'll burn out sooner rather than later. Of course the stuff the 14-year old who only plays fortnite loves gets more clicks than in-depth techjical analyses of old N64 games. Obviously. In turn, these guys have awful communities and work as entertainers completely beholden to the newest trends, having to scream and shout at the fun L.P. game of the week. Compared to that, you can spend days working on a single deep-dive video and provide a service no one gets anywhere else.

The videos we produce for our outlet get around 5000 views most of the time, sometimes 10k, maybe even 20k or more if it hits a nerve. And that's ok. Because we have a few hundred people on Patreon who pay us (sometimes a lot of) money so we don't have to rely on viewer numbers to sustain ourselves and instead produce something we can be proud of. Compared to that the clicks you get with DF are amazing ;) Honestly, we should just all count our blessings and be incredibly thankful we have the support (and necessary luck) to turn out hobby into a job and make a living with that, instead of being bitter about not being the next Britney Spears of our industry like Pewdiepiew.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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Yo, for what it's worth DF is some of my favorite content on youtube. I can't get enough, there's nothing even close out there.

ZiggyPalffyLA said:

And Dan Stapleton continues to bash Filip after he's been fired:

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Dan Stapleton seems like that guy everyone knew in high school. The one who thought he was smarter than everyone, who everyone just found annoying as hell and didn't want to talk to as a result. I've never seen him cede an argument or really take someone else's opinion into consideration. He usually responds with snark and elitism and just seems stuck up.

But hey I've never met him.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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Your stuff makes my day better, as a dev it makes me appreciate and love this industry so much more.

Halation Ablation said:

I don't see how that's bashing anyone.

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He is basically saying that his first drafts were garbage and that he had to steal a review in order to show improvement over his style. That's what i took from his carefully worded insult.

ZiggyPalffyLA said:

I mean, he's been fired. No need for anyone at IGN to even continue discussing this publicly.

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I agree, but I also think his point was not to bash or re-open the wounds... I read it as "yeah, we would have never found this out if it wasn't for that video. It didn't fall through the cracks because I was on vacation."

casey_contra said:

I agree, but I also think his point was not to bash or re-open the wounds... I read it as "yeah, we would have never found this out if it wasn't for that video. It didn't fall through the cracks because I was on vacation."

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Agreed but there was no need to make the comment about his "usual first drafts".

Sounds like he just wasn't a very good writer and got caught trying to take a shortcut. I get that. My writing skills have deteriorated since I've e made stronger efforts with video. Now I make sure to do both. A video script to read and a well written review.

Fercho said:

He is basically saying that his first drafts were garbage and that he had to steal a review in order to show improvement over his style. That's what i took from his carefully worded insult.

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Yes it's a dig, but you are pouring additional venom onto it that might not even be there. Editors do need to be this direct/ honest sometimes.

I remember when I made a genuine effort to write a practice movie review and my editor asked me if I even took the assignment seriously when he read it. Everything that's followed since then has been praised.

ZiggyPalffyLA said:

I mean, he's been fired. No need for anyone at IGN to even continue discussing this publicly.

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They're gonna keep being asked questions and if they don't answer any, people are gonna say they aren't being very transparent. They really can't please everyone.

Bobo Dakes said:

Yes it's a dig, but you are pouring additional venom onto it that might not even be there. Editors do need to be this direct/ honest sometimes.

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...to the editor. Not to the entire world.

AndreGX said:

...to the editor. Not to the entire world.

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Fair point. I just meant, some just talk like that and it's not really bashing for the sake of doing so like someone else described it. But yeah, that part of the tweet wasn't necessary.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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I understand the frustration but hasn't this always been the case with entertainment media? Look at the popularity of reality TV. You have cheap garbage like Keeping Up With the Kardashians regularly getting 2 million viewers while some smart, carefully crafted TV shows get a fraction of that viewership.

Halation Ablation said:

I don't see how that's bashing anyone.

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Its a backhanded compliment given the circumstances.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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But your work is inspired, deep, and thoughtful. When you're passionate about something that reflects into your work. Keep doing what you do, no one else is doing what you are. I'd love to be involved somehow, let me know if I can help financially or otherwise.

ZiggyPalffyLA said:

And Dan Stapleton continues to bash Filip after he's been fired:

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Damn, how bad was this dude's output prior to this thing.

Mecha Suplex said:

Damn, how bad was this dude's output prior to this thing.

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If you ever listened to him on NVC, you wouldn't be surprised he lacks originality and insight.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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To be honest, this is why I stopped printing my magazine and doing games journalism. We put a lot of work into our reviews and creating content, but it always felt like we were going nowhere. At some point, I got so bummed out about it that I shut everything down. Maybe one day I'll go back to it for fun or something. You guys have a much better audience so I would recommend continuing as I feel like you guys do some good in the world.

Mecha Suplex said:

Damn, how bad was this dude's output prior to this thing.

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No matter how bad it was you do not talk about this on twitter. Dan could have said what he needed to without airing out his grievances with what the writer produces on twitter. It could have been the worst work in the world but the tweet comes off as high school drama.

So, days later I still have this guy's Twitter open, I keep refreshing to see if he'll remove the IGN from his account, he hasn't.

My guess? He feels like his world is crashing in, I mean, having the internet mob you and turn you into a meme for the wrong reasons AND getting fired is life changing. He probably has to tell his partner if he has one or folks close to him, his job, the internet, his inner circle all seeing him at this major point of shame, I feel kind of bad. Plenty of us get fired but don't have to go through a sliver of what he's experiencing, that being said, I cannot say it is unwarranted. So many unknown YouTubers, Streamers, Devs, grind SO hard for exposure, and you get to don the IGN tag and you steal from those same people?

Sorry dude but hard lesson learned.

has there been a timetable for when a new review will go up?

janusff said:

has there been a timetable for when a new review will go up?

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Nothing official but I imagine IGN will have it up this week.

Dark1x said:

I've found this to be completely true and it's been weighing heavily on me as of late. Putting loads of effort into something and watching it perform so poorly versus a quick one day video on Fortnite or whatever else is "hot" makes you question what's really worth doing.

It's starting to make me bitter, unfortunately.

People say they want in-depth stuff but that only seems to account for a small audience.

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I aprappreciate our videos. The DF Retro ones in particular. Gaming history is cool, and Iove the approach you take towards presenting it. Fortnite is the hot thing now, but it won't necessarily be in the future.

AndreGX said:

...to the editor. Not to the entire world.

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This isn't an internal matter though. Sounds like he just clarified a very public issue with an honest response. It reads to me like he was placing emphasis on the fact this could not have been prevented, by stating if anything he would have had a positive reaction to the review.