People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
I think people are missing the point about Primrose story. It is absolutely a sexist trope to show how evil people are by having them rape & sexual assault women. It's not an empowering tale - it's a very tedious, over used cliche which treats women as objects for the purpose of a cheap way of showing how evil certain characters are.
Subjecting female characters to sexual abuse and assault for "shock value" or as a trigger for character development is a) bad writing b) sexist as fuck
I get that but when are we allowed to do it? If Primrose was a male dancer would it have been fine by you because it's not as cliche?
OT's story is pretty garbage throughout and I'm sympathetic to the idea that Primrose is just another trope-laden poorly written questline, but I feel like this assertion needs defined barriers.
We are taught that in writing, struggle and conflict are the core of forward action and often char dev in a story. It is sexist to make sexual abuse and assault the ONLY avenue for char dev for women, I agree, but 1. it's not the only one in Octopath (see Tressa, the hunter lady, and Ophilia) 2. it's not the only one for Primrose (revenge is) 3. it is not overly dwelt upon or graphic (titillation and all that)
Once again, agree with your general point, just would like some qualifications for it.
Subjecting female characters to sexual abuse and assault for "shock value" or as a trigger for character development is a) bad writing b) sexist as fuck
The writer completely missed the point with these stories. These people are bad and nowhere does it glorify, encapsulate, or promote that these behaviors are acceptable.
Seems like the sentiment here is pretty much "Article is dumb", but I guess I'm interpreting it differently.
It strikes me less as "this story includes rape", and thus is sexist and more that it's attempting to point out that these sorts of stories only seem to be for female characters. You don't see the same kind of reprehensible things being done to male characters, generally. I have not finished anyone's story in OT though, so I can't speak to specifics there.
This is how it took it. Even though the story seems to be against sexism it's always the women used as a weak/exploited character. You won't see these kind of stories with male victims being used by male pimps even though it's also a reality because writers always tend to put women in the victim/weak roles.
Of course I didn't play the game so i can only go with whats' written there.
Yeah, let's forget the fact that the game includes female protagonists who are empowering to women like: Tressa being an independent merchant making a name for herself, Ophelia performing a religious rite that was previously done by the game's male Pope, and Haan'it being the main protector of her town for a year and only goes looking for her master when he seems to be in trouble, literally a reversal of the damsel in distress scenario. Primrose's story is condemning the characters that are portrayed twith sexism or abuse, and Primrose herself isn't portrayed as someone girls should aspire to be. This article is a good read to rustle up my jimmies.
It's a fantasy world. Why does it need to be "realistic"? Why do men always feel the need to include raging misogyny in their fantasy worlds? It's fantasy. It can be a utopia of gender-equality, but no women have to be subjected to sexual violence for "gritty" "realism" and we are SICK OF IT. There was a thread on this in OT recently. Might want to check it out.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
For what it's worth, she's not forced into sex slavery. She goes into hiding specifically at this tavern/brothel with the intent of catching the people who killed her dad. I admit it's a bit of a stupid trope, but in no way is any of it condoned or white-washed. The article further has an awful lot of exaggerations and lies.
Imagine if they remake xenogears now, wonder how people will react with the approach of the game about slavery, if they couldn't even handle the approach about sexism of octopath
I think some of the criticism in the article is fair (none of it is quoted in the OP), like how three of the fourth female characters have their stories tied to men as motivations, or how all four of them have jobs that have using others for help as skills. However, yeah, some of the Primrose's story complaints are kinda bad, all those gross men in her story are intentionally portrayed so to make a point, and I'd argue the fact that her resolve to avenge her father is so strong and unwavering portrays her as far "stronger" of a character than a lot of female leads in JRPGs.
She murders her former love interest without doubting herself for a second too if that counts.
I'd say in H'aanit's case there's merit in her story revolving around her master too considering he's widely considered an extremely capable warrior and yet he's essentially his damsel in distress. There's little snippets here and there that suggest she might only be interested in women too, which I found nice.
Some personal criticism on Primrose tho, I hated how some travel banter implied she actually enjoys dancing for and entertaining men, even when not necessary because it goes against everything in her story line. I also found it absurd that she never ditches the dancer clothes and how most of her secondary job outfits are equally skimpy; she "needs" them to seduce men, I guess, but still.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
I think people are missing the point about Primrose story. It is absolutely a sexist trope to show how evil people are by having them rape & sexual assault women. It's not an empowering tale - it's a very tedious, over used cliche which treats women as objects for the purpose of a cheap way of showing how evil certain characters are.
Seems like the sentiment here is pretty much "Article is dumb", but I guess I'm interpreting it differently.
It strikes me less as "this story includes rape", and thus is sexist and more that it's attempting to point out that these sorts of stories only seem to be for female characters. You don't see the same kind of reprehensible things being done to male characters, generally. I have not finished anyone's story in OT though, so I can't speak to specifics there.
What a weird article. The term "sexist" is clearly used too loosely or it is losing it's meaning. I love Primrose's story because she's gone through shit and let's be honest, the world has been and currently can still be as dark as it is depicted in her world. That is notfetishization...
Wow, I can't believe there are people who agree with this article. And the OP thinking "Well worth the full read" is just laughable, it's like the total opposite of that.
Unless maybe if his intention was to trick users in to thinking OT is sexist who can't think for themselves, or if the intention was to make fun of the article.
This is how it took it. Even though the story seems to be against sexism it's always the women used as a weak/exploited character. You won't see these kind of stories with male victims being used by male pimps even though it's also a reality because writers always tend to put women in the victim/weak roles.
Sexual abuse is an actual thing that happens in society. It's an indictment on humanity as a species that it does, but it does. Stories shouldn't be forbidden from tackling that subject, especially if they deal with it with some tact, which brings me to
How in the world is Primrose weak? Have you played the game? She single handedly busts as least two sex trafficking rings, and rises up against the misogyny exhibited by the male characters in the game.
The writer here ether missed the point, it is arguing in bad faith.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
Of course it's sexist, but I think you're missing the point. The point is that it's supposed to be sexist, it's meant to be a critique of sexism in our society, it's not portraying sexism in a positive light.
Of course it's sexist, but I think you're missing the point. The point is that it's supposed to be sexist, it's meant to be a critique of sexism in our society, it's not portraying sexism in a positive light.
No, a narrative in which a woman is raped for drama is a sexist narrative. That's what I'm saying. It's trying to be an indictment of sexism but it ends up being sexist itself.
You won't see these kind of stories with male victims being used by male pimps even though it's also a reality because writers always tend to put women in the victim/weak roles.
Frankly it seems even more baffling then. How is a story portraying a woman fighting against the patriarchy and the male dominance through means as violent as the ones she's been suffering any kind of sexist ? Like, I didn't play the full story, there's surely some sexist tropes in the mix since it's still a japanese video game writing, but I don't see that either in the article or the premise of this story.
I'm really confused, it seems like the writer missed the point of those events? It is not glorified in any way. The men doing this are made to look evil, and the town's overall attitude towards women and dancers like Primrose is made to show the level of hypocrisy. Similar to her chapter 2 story in which the town turns a blind eye to the fact that there is a brother in town.
The author addresses this in the middle of the article.
I can already hear the "well, actually!" excuse that all of this is the game trying to show how only bad, evil men objectify women, or reduce them to a madonna/whore dichotomy, or value them based on their purity, appearance, or relationships with men. I'd be more willing to suspend my disbelief if the game didn't do all those things to its other female characters.
And continues into specific examples. I definitely don't think the author was missing the point of the Primrose events, more that the subtext and overall handling of the other female characters framed it in a different light.
This writer is acting like these characters in Primrose's story are somehow put in a good light. They are all clearly treated as evil/bad people and the ones that end up dead pretty much have it coming and the game treats it like that as well. I mean damn Primrose herself kills two of the evil fuckers running sex rings.
Remember when Drakengard 3's protagonist started as a child prostitute sold by her own mother and eventually became a mass murdering, male slave owning, badass? I remember and it was great, my GOTY for 2013.
Mainstream press didn't like the game though, so the story bits must have fell through the outrage cracks.
Subjecting female characters to sexual abuse and assault for "shock value" or as a trigger for character development is a) bad writing b) sexist as fuck
The stories in Octopath being so cliche are one of its most egregious flaws honestly. This article does a bit of exaggeration but even by JRPG standards it's predictable to the point where I was literally guessing dialogue correctly.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
This statement makes zero sense to me. Absolutely zero.
So is every single movie/tv show that includes these , no matter what the context, automatically sexist?
Does my acknowledging that this stuff happens in real life, and exists, sexist?!
"Sex slavery and rape is good": THAT is sexist. Or belittling/excusing/down-playing it in any way.
But the game is sexist automatically, without context, because these are part of the narrative? Even while they're clearly framed as evil?
Sorry, that's horse-shit, and irrational. You're doing everyone a disservice by diluting the meaning of all these things.
Good ol "cowboy bebeop at his computer" type article. Really wish people would investigate and ask questions if they dont understand something instead of jumping to conclusions.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
I think people are missing the point about Primrose story. It is absolutely a sexist trope to show how evil people are by having them rape & sexual assault women. It's not an empowering tale - it's a very tedious, over used cliche which treats women as objects for the purpose of a cheap way of showing how evil certain characters are.
I mean I get the point, but maybe don't agree with the volume the point is being made. The author of the article tries to use the beginning of that one story-line as evidence of how the "entire game" is sexist, and her follow up points are a lot less convincing.
In reality, it's a chapter that starts off on a tropey premise that seems to improve as the story progresses. Again, maybe not the best or most unique writing in the world but the author reaches in trying to paint the entire game as "sexist garbage". Parts of a game can be crummy without the whole thing being this grand injustice.
People are trying to claim that a story in which a female character is forced into sex slavery and raped isn't sexist even though, you know, that's kind of peak sexism. That the writing is saying "durr look at how EVUHL these rapists are" doesn't make it not sexist.
We could do it with male characters for a couple years. Why not? You and all the other guys here clearly think it's fine, so why not have every male character abused, raped, enslaved, get called filthy whore, etc? I mean, why not? It's fine if it's on female characters, so it should be fine if all male characters are that and just that for a while.
I'm sure you won't complain at all.
This is how it took it. Even though the story seems to be against sexism it's always the women used as a weak/exploited character. You won't see these kind of stories with male victims being used by male pimps even though it's also a reality because writers always tend to put women in the victim/weak roles.
Wow, I can't believe there are people who agree with this article. And the OP thinking "Well worth the full read" is just laughable, it's like the total opposite of that.
Unless maybe if his intention was to trick users in to thinking OT is sexist who can't think for themselves, or if the intention was to make fun of the article.
No, a narrative in which a woman is raped for drama is a sexist narrative. That's what I'm saying. It's trying to be an indictment of sexism but it ends up being sexist itself.
Did you read my post? I just said that it was sexist, and with sexism, rape culture, etc. being rampant in our society it's to be expected that forms of fiction are going to portray them, that's a common way to criticize societal issues.
