This really sort of misses the plot. There is worthy criticism of Octopath out there, but I think it actually handled the Primrose storyline pretty well
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The Sexist Garbage in Octopath Traveler
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Frankly, it is just a very strange thing to put on this game.
Octopath, through the stories of its 8 characters, aboards various themes and depict these subject without a condescending tone or without pushing you to embrace their narrative. It presents facts, characters as they are naive/optimistic/evil/weak and let you judge them for what they are.
Can a healer choose who he heals ? Especially does he have to heal killers or other threats to the society ?
The game presents you both sides of the question and is not forcing a narrative.
In the case of Primrose, it is confusing that her story is accused of sexism with how men are described.
Octopath, through the stories of its 8 characters, aboards various themes and depict these subject without a condescending tone or without pushing you to embrace their narrative. It presents facts, characters as they are naive/optimistic/evil/weak and let you judge them for what they are.
Can a healer choose who he heals ? Especially does he have to heal killers or other threats to the society ?
The game presents you both sides of the question and is not forcing a narrative.
In the case of Primrose, it is confusing that her story is accused of sexism with how men are described.
I thought the point of Prim's story is to show the rampant sexism and misogyny in society and how she's trying to stand up against it. I do admit it gets extremely dark.
All of the things described in Primrose's story exist in more graphic detail in literature. I don't understand why we need censorship or dulled edges in video game stories? Are gamers not deemed mature enough for dark themes which exist both in the real world and fiction?
Subjecting female characters to sexual abuse and assault for "shock value" or as a trigger for character development is a) bad writing b) sexist as fuck
How boring..
just let those people write the stories they want to write in the way they want.
a lot of games clashes with my personal beliefs but that's fine, Everybody has his or her own view.
and Primrose's story is very good.
just let those people write the stories they want to write in the way they want.
a lot of games clashes with my personal beliefs but that's fine, Everybody has his or her own view.
and Primrose's story is very good.
Damn I should play this game. I didnt think much of these spoilers but they certainly make the game sound interesting with how dark it is.
Unfortunately the other stories are not as dark and (imo) interesting as Primrose's
I don't understand the mentality of people that think portraying evil acts and deplorable people in art is somehow racist/sexist/etc.
I remember all the controversy surrounding a rape scene in Game of Thrones. Yeah, it's horrible. It's uncomfortable to watch. That's... the point? You aren't meant to celebrate or glorify all of the terrible acts portrayed in art. I just don't understand why some people cannot seem to separate fiction from reality. You certainly don't have to enjoy consuming that kind of stuff but to imply that the people creating the art are somehow condoning the horrible things on display... that's lunacy to me.
Ding ding ding, if anything it should be praised for putting this kind of subject matter in the game. This article makes me annoyed.
I haven't played the game myself yet but people are saying the character is clearly framed as a villain.
No, it actually wasn't. Talk about missing the huge glaring point.
With the chance of getting backlash for this... I don't see it that way. I think this is just made to sound controversial without taking into consideration the full picture. Almost looks like a Kotaku article. It is Mashable, so not that much far.
I think Primrose has just decided to use sex as a weapon and I don't think females should in any shape or form be shamed for that. Using your sex appeal to get to your goal is not something shameful or to be frowned upon, it's a choice. And it very much felt to me in the game that this was the choice she had made for herself and she was content with it, so I didn't question it. In fact, out of all the protagonists in this game, I think Primrose is the most powerful one.
And about the father-daughter thing, let's not forget that this story was told from the perspective of the father. The father that also went to a whore house to request a girl that looks like his deceased daughter. So for all we know he was the one raping his own daughter and he was the reason she took her own life. It was never cleared, but we can't really take what he said for the truth. It's just silly, given the circumstances. This is just twisting it in a way.
At the end of the day, Octopath Traveller has the same issues most JPRGs have, which is lack of proper communication. A lot of things are left up to the player to decide how they happened in detail, it's never cleared up. And some people will take it the way Jess Joho here has and some won't. I personally chose Primrose as my main hero and loved her story the most. I thought using sex as a weapon made her powerful, not weak.
I think Primrose has just decided to use sex as a weapon and I don't think females should in any shape or form be shamed for that. Using your sex appeal to get to your goal is not something shameful or to be frowned upon, it's a choice. And it very much felt to me in the game that this was the choice she had made for herself and she was content with it, so I didn't question it. In fact, out of all the protagonists in this game, I think Primrose is the most powerful one.
And about the father-daughter thing, let's not forget that this story was told from the perspective of the father. The father that also went to a whore house to request a girl that looks like his deceased daughter. So for all we know he was the one raping his own daughter and he was the reason she took her own life. It was never cleared, but we can't really take what he said for the truth. It's just silly, given the circumstances. This is just twisting it in a way.
At the end of the day, Octopath Traveller has the same issues most JPRGs have, which is lack of proper communication. A lot of things are left up to the player to decide how they happened in detail, it's never cleared up. And some people will take it the way Jess Joho here has and some won't. I personally chose Primrose as my main hero and loved her story the most. I thought using sex as a weapon made her powerful, not weak.
Anyome who actually played Octopath knows Z'aanta is like a God damn legend in game. The amount of lore in this game about the shit he's done is actually insane. H'aanit is in no way superior ot more capable than him until "arguably" the end of the game and even then it's really really debateable if that is even true.
As far as Prim's story is concerned. That shit was super dark. Went places I wasn't expecting. I don't think it glorified anything though, really it was the opposite. It really made you have 0 respect for any of the people involved in her story. Like they were all slime and pretty much all get fucked for being trash.
As far as Prim's story is concerned. That shit was super dark. Went places I wasn't expecting. I don't think it glorified anything though, really it was the opposite. It really made you have 0 respect for any of the people involved in her story. Like they were all slime and pretty much all get fucked for being trash.
I'm a girl and I really liked all the girls in this game, actually. Primrose is kind of great, and the point of the enemies is that they're sexist pigs and you get to beat them up.
Also I wish there were more older women in games, but at least some of the old ladies in this game will fuck you up bad if you try to challenge them.
Also I wish there were more older women in games, but at least some of the old ladies in this game will fuck you up bad if you try to challenge them.
The logic used in this piece comes across like the rationalization that if a woman is shown being injured in a film regardless of context the film promotes misogyny.
It really bugs me that the article seems to say that being a successful merchant isn't empowering. The only "empowering" job is a hunter.
Only physical strength is empowering?
Only physical strength is empowering?
You won't get backlash, that appears to be the overwhelming opinion in this thread, and rightfully so.
I, uh, wow. I mean I do think the whole "girl forced into sex work" is kind of tropey and lazy, but I don't know if it's explicitly sexist. When the author got to the "Coded into the gameplay itself" I really couldn't take it seriously any longer.
This article feels like a good impression of so many other clickbaity articles trying look at things through an overtly critical lens and cherry picking to find something problematic. I think Octopath Traveller definitely has some lazy character archetypes, but very few people are going to bat on the strength of the writing and plot of this game anyway. Sexist feels like a reach compared to other more overtly sexist games in the medium.
This article feels like a good impression of so many other clickbaity articles trying look at things through an overtly critical lens and cherry picking to find something problematic. I think Octopath Traveller definitely has some lazy character archetypes, but very few people are going to bat on the strength of the writing and plot of this game anyway. Sexist feels like a reach compared to other more overtly sexist games in the medium.
Genuinely makes me wonder how the writer feels about sex workers.
Imagine if they remake xenogears now, wonder how people will react with the approach of the game about slavery, if they couldn't even handle the approach about sexism of octopath
Yeah that's some bologna, and you can apply any job class to any character regardless of gender.
Fuck mashable.
Seems like the sentiment here is pretty much "Article is dumb", but I guess I'm interpreting it differently.
It strikes me less as "this story includes rape", and thus is sexist and more that it's attempting to point out that these sorts of stories only seem to be for female characters. You don't see the same kind of reprehensible things being done to male characters, generally. I have not finished anyone's story in OT though, so I can't speak to specifics there.
It strikes me less as "this story includes rape", and thus is sexist and more that it's attempting to point out that these sorts of stories only seem to be for female characters. You don't see the same kind of reprehensible things being done to male characters, generally. I have not finished anyone's story in OT though, so I can't speak to specifics there.
Did you just post this because you knew everyone would unanimously dismiss it as badly written? What is the point?
Bad faith much?
All women in Octopath are fucking brave. Frankly, this article annoys me when the game has such a great female representation in number/diversity/epicness.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns about sexism as incitement + history of dismissive behavior
Yes, I'm reading it now...if that's the case it's yet another bullshit article aimed to stirr the gender war I guess.
Not sure what makes me feel worse :(
Would it have been better if it was men in the same position or if the villain had no back story and he was just bad? As sick as the story is, it's compelling enough to want to do something about it.
I've only played the demo but my impression was that the feelings of unease and disgust they're feeling based on the situation Primrose is in and the attitudes of the townsfolk is what the player is intended to feel. But the observation of all the female characters story revolving around men is disappointing if accurate, I don't want to read too much into the detail on that for fear of spoilers.
I don't want to give anything away, but...
With that in mind, it seems like a pretty substantial mischaracterization. The author seems to have misunderstood Primrose's story (or at least that part of it). It makes her sound much more passive than she actually is.
...my understanding of Primrose's first chapter wasn't that she was just wallowing away in the brothel; her dialogue STRONGLY implied that she knew Helgenish had some connection to the crows. She says something about having always danced on her own two feet and always having chosen her next step. She also specifically says that she endured the suffering, waiting for the day that man would appear. It seems pretty clear to me that Primrose never lacked motivation, she was lying in wait.
People have different opinions, doesn't make it a "hot mess"
This feels like one of those "the very depiction of the material is an endorsement of the material" arguments which completely defeats the purpose of context and telling a story.
If the game goes out of it's way to depict all of these actions as those of a bad man, it's not sexist. It's showing that being sexist garbage is a bad thing. That was the entire point of the story arc.
If the game goes out of it's way to depict all of these actions as those of a bad man, it's not sexist. It's showing that being sexist garbage is a bad thing. That was the entire point of the story arc.
I haven't played, but the thing its How this is presented, there's no problem to show problematic sexist stuff If you are condemning it, and showing as something serious and problematic, like If your side is from the dancer its already a factor that gives to the player that the characters are horrible bad people.
I'm really confused, it seems like the writer missed the point of those events? It is not glorified in any way. The men doing this are made to look evil, and the town's overall attitude towards women and dancers like Primrose is made to show the level of hypocrisy. Similar to her chapter 2 story in which the town turns a blind eye to the fact that there is a brothel in town.
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You know what, unfortunately sexism is still existant in our society. What that means is that it will be portrayed in media, however I don't see what the issue with that is, as long as it isn't portrayed in a positive light, it can actually be portrayed in a way that criticizes the current faults of society.
I dont see where the "hot mess" is at, in fact this thread seems to be the opposite opinion and that the article is missing key details/the writer didnt see it the way the majority did.
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