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Batgirl vs Batwoman

Razgriz-Specter

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,446
SOLDIER said:
Seriously, this.

Having like four Robins active and out on the field at once is ridiculous. I just think the idea of a "Bat Family" is silly considering the solitary nature of Batman.

Yes, I know we literally had a whole movie debunking this (Lego Batman), but it's still ridiculous that Batman has the equivalent of a Power Rangers team in Gotham and yet the crime rate doesn't drop even a single decibel.
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For the most part

Batman does his thing as usual,
Jason Todd does his own thing.
Tim hangs with Batman but previously was "dead" and mostly with the Titans before that
Barbara has been out in the suburbs of Gotham for a few years
Damian is around but mostly with the Titans or Superboy atm
Dick has his own city and leads a Titans team
Stephanie was pissed and left Batman for a while
Cass is with Batman full time

Batwoman did her own thing mostly until Rebirth Detective Comics

Duke, Luke, etc are Schrodinger's sidekick

Huntress is in a weird spot atm.
 
Pau

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,838
SOLDIER said:
Having like four Robins active and out on the field at once is ridiculous. I just think the idea of a "Bat Family" is silly considering the solitary nature of Batman.
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Batman hasn't been a solitary character since 1940. Pretty much all of Bruce's character development in the comics resolves around being a father to his kids, aka the Bat Family.
 

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
Barabara Gordon was an extremely boring character until she got crippled, and only then did writers decide she needed substance beyond her gender.

All subsequent Batgirls and Batwoman are better than Batgirl.
 
Maximum Spider

Maximum Spider

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,975
Cleveland, OH
Pau said:
Batman hasn't been a solitary character since 1940. Pretty much all of Bruce's character development in the comics resolves around being a father to his kids, aka the Bat Family.
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Robin was the best thing to ever happen to Batman. I don't wanna live in a world where Dick Grayson and co. didn't have any affect on their dad.
 
Punjabi_Hitman

Punjabi_Hitman

Banned
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
I find Batwoman far more interesting than batgirl. First her fighting abilities make far more sense.

Second her part of Gotham is far more interesting as she takes on the paranormal rather than just regular bad guys.

But Cass Cain is the best batgirl and I like her version the best of all the female batfamily.
 
Haloid1177

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,533
Babs will always hold a special place in my heart since Nightwing is my fave superhero and that's def the best girl for him (Starfire is a fling people accept this).

Batwoman is cool but kinda boring.

Cassie Cain is where it's at, honestly.
 
SOLDIER

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
Razgriz-Specter said:
For the most part

Batman does his thing as usual,
Jason Todd does his own thing.
Tim hangs with Batman but previously was "dead" and mostly with the Titans before that
Barbara has been out in the suburbs of Gotham for a few years
Damian is around but mostly with the Titans or Superboy atm
Dick has his own city and leads a Titans team
Stephanie was pissed and left Batman for a while
Cass is with Batman full time

Batwoman did her own thing mostly until Rebirth Detective Comics

Duke, Luke, etc are Schrodinger's sidekick

Huntress is in a weird spot atm.
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Okay, this has been bugging me for a long while. At what point was Batman cool with Jason Todd popping people's heads as the Red Hood?

I only saw the animated movie and the whole point was how Batman didn't condone his murder sprees.

But now he's, like, cool with it?
 
Pau

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,838
max.rem said:
Robin was the best thing to ever happen to Batman. I don't wanna live in a world where Dick Grayson and co. didn't have any affect on their dad.
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I would just straight up not be interested in the character if none of the kids had been introduced. Bruce Wayne by himself is only so interesting. Thankfully the first got introduced in 1940. If only the live action adaptations would catch up. I am so fucking bored by solitary Batman.
 
Razgriz-Specter

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,446
max.rem said:
WTF is this. Goddamnit that costume blows. She went full-on Super Shredder.
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mrmoose said:
I was also curious what god awful comic that was from. I hope it was an Elseworlds because that costume, those shorts, the boobs hanging out, what the heck? That's Barbara?
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It was part of a bad alt-future event, Barbara's brother killed her husband,bf,etc and she snapped.
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just_myles

just_myles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,454
Barbra Gordon as batgirl is lame. I like Batwoman better right now. Now Cassandra Cane batgirl vs Batwoman.... nah I still give it to batwoman.
 
Razgriz-Specter

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,446
SOLDIER said:
Okay, this has been bugging me for a long while. At what point was Batman cool with Jason Todd popping people's heads as the Red Hood?

I only saw the animated movie and the whole point was how Batman didn't condone his murder sprees.

But now he's, like, cool with it?
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Jason has been toned way down.
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seems like DC will be changing that again soon though.
 
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Razgriz-Specter

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,446
SOLDIER said:
This still doesn't answer anything. He was trying to put a stop to Jason's murder rampage, tirelessly determined to catch him and bring him to justice.

And then he just...gives up?
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Its been retconned basically with New 52 and further with Rebirth, Jason isn't a hardcore killer much anymore.
He is essentially like Huntress and Batwoman were before, they go too far for Batman but not far enough that he would shut them down.

Batman also works with Jason now and then because he gets into more shady areas than Batman can.


mrmoose said:
Did they ever explain this? It felt like they rapidly deaged her at the same time, considering in the new 52 continuity she was still Oracle at some point, right?
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Yup it still mostly happened.
Seems like she is about to get rebooted again though so we will see how that goes.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
Batwoman wins on that art alone. I love how Kate Is an army brat that still cant come to terms with the realities of superhéro stuff and fuck up in most aspects of her life.

Basically Captain Marvel done right.
 
Anthony Mooch

Anthony Mooch

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,791
Honesty until the arrowverse crossover thing announce in may I thought it was just an adult version of Barbra that never became paralyzed
 
Doctoglethorpe

Doctoglethorpe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,214
Oracle > Cass Batgirl > Batwoman >>> Gordon Batgirl

It's a shame that part of the new 52 has remained. Oracle is just so much more interesting, not to mention culturally important.

They'll bring back red fucking underwear but they won't bring back a superhero in a wheelchair.
 
Osu 16 Bit

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,923
Chicago, IL
I think Batwoman is an extremely cool design, with a badass origin and supporting cast, but I don't think I've ever seen her in anything that lived up to the potential. IMO even the critically acclaimed stuff like Elegy is alright but overrated IMO. Too much focus on supernatural rogues and her sister. Her current solo book isn't very good either.

Babs is a classic character to me. 66 Batgirl was like the first female super hero I thought was cool. She's good in the animated series. In a lot of good books. She's obviously got a lot more history, but still.
 
Ryuhza

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,431
San Diego County
I don't think I know anything about Batwoman. I get my comic stuff from associated media though. Mostly movies and games, with some cartoons from the early-mid 2000s.
 
OP
OP

fireflame

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,275
Pau said:
Batman hasn't been a solitary character since 1940. Pretty much all of Bruce's character development in the comics resolves around being a father to his kids, aka the Bat Family.
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In original TAS he is quite lonely despite having robin side with him more in second season.

Then in TNA he is less lonely

It seems to depend on how you view the character, someone who remains lonely or someone who decides to team up as a necessity.
 
Pau

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,838
fireflame said:
In original TAS he is quite lonely despite having robin side with him more in second season.

Then in TNA he is less lonely

It seems to depend on how you view the character, someone who remains lonely or someone who decides to team up as a necessity.
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That's actually a bit of a weird time in Bruce's life because it mostly focuses on when Dick was in college and before the next Robin started. In the comics, it would be one of the last times he was really alone. The next would be after Jason died, but Tim became Robin within like a year. After that Bruce is basically always living with at least one of his kids.

Of course, he goes on missions on his own but for the most part he is surrounded by family and in constant contact with them.
 
Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
I would get JH Williams' Batwoman 4 volume run just for the art alone. The vampire look is perfect. The art on the covers and inside :O Some of the best ever.

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mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,175
Doctoglethorpe said:
Oracle > Cass Batgirl > Batwoman >>> Gordon Batgirl

It's a shame that part of the new 52 has remained. Oracle is just so much more interesting, not to mention culturally important.

They'll bring back red fucking underwear but they won't bring back a superhero in a wheelchair.
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Well, the reason and way she was put in the wheelchair was problematic, I can understand why they don't put her back in that status quo. I can also understand why they want to push that version as Batgirl in all media.

fireflame said:
In original TAS he is quite lonely despite having robin side with him more in second season.

Then in TNA he is less lonely

It seems to depend on how you view the character, someone who remains lonely or someone who decides to team up as a necessity.
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Then in Batman Beyond we find out what happens when you allow Bruce Timm to put his fetishes in his show. And then in Killing Joke that becomes even less subtle.

Chained Prometheus said:
I get why everyone loves Cass as Batgirl, as she's one of the finest characters in the Bat-Family, but man Steph's run in the mantle was criminally short. I love the sense of humor she brought to Batgirl.
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I liked that Steph was a true rookie (even though she spent a lot of time as Spoiler and then briefly as Robin). Plus that costume was cool and the mentorship with Oracle was neat. That series and Lemire's Superboy were my two biggest regrets when New 52 happened.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Sgt. Demblant said:
Yeah she became Oracle for a bad reason for sure. I don't like how that happened either. And that Killing Joke movie sure didn't help. But thanks to John Ostrander and many others, she slowly grew into a truly unique character. One that was a true pillar of the DC universe. Batwoman and Batgirl will always be derivatives of Bruce. Oracle grew beyond Batman.
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I should check that john o series she was featured in
 
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,094
Hull, UK
Batwoman by a mile. Elegy is essential reading, and one of the best looking comics around. J H Williams put out some incredible work.

Cass and Steph were good Batgirls, I especially loved the light hearted approach in Steph's run. Chasing Dracula on a segway, for instance.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,051
God how i hate the Red Robin hood, it never looks good. Makes Robin look like he is about to be on an ep of Real Sex
 
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