I'd have to seriously think about it, especially if he's composing or arranging for the game.
It's a slightly different situation if it's just a cameo, at least.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Square-Enix responds to DQ Composer’s Anti-LGBT Stance
- Thread starter Choppasmith
- Start date
I'd have to seriously think about it, especially if he's composing or arranging for the game.
It's a slightly different situation if it's just a cameo, at least.
I don't care what this old dude thinks.
I don't even like Dragon Quest music, and he's already been paid for the OST.
Still getting the game, but I honestly don't expect anything more from Square Enix. I certainly don't expect them to cut the legs off of a franchise that just regained a foothold in the West.
Time will take care of Sugiyama, literally.
I don't even like Dragon Quest music, and he's already been paid for the OST.
Still getting the game, but I honestly don't expect anything more from Square Enix. I certainly don't expect them to cut the legs off of a franchise that just regained a foothold in the West.
Time will take care of Sugiyama, literally.
Frankly, given what this is about, at worst they're also saying they are okay with seeing discrimination as not even being discrimination.
OP
OP
Well, not that I'm one to talk, but since Sugiyama's involvement and ownership is ONLY music and they throw in a few DQ Mii Fighter costumes I don't see how that would be bother would-be boycotters. Something tells me Sugiyama is really picky about people arranging his music anyway. I mean you see a whole bunch of crazy arrangements for other game series but practically nothing for DQ outside symphonic suites.
With "We" I was refering to people in general because almost everyone both here and outside of here agreed that old Twitter jokes shouldn't get you fired from your job.
They can be inmoral, but they are not illegal, neither paedophilia or holocaust jokes.
So just like Shinzo Abe, but when Trump fed the Koi incorrectly, people were talking about him like he was a Saint
Trump is bad, not being Trump doesn't automatically make you good, contrary to popular belief (off-topic, but related to him denying things like Nanking and Abe being part of Moritomo Gakuen and Nippon Kaigi)
The whole world, america included, has no problem separating Japan as a country from it's Prime Minister
Meanwhile every American I meet thinks that we Europeans hate America and think they are just a bunch of egocentric people since Trump got elected, when honestly, we've been thinking that already for a while
If it's not already clear thanks to the rest of the posts, language sure is a barrier when talking to other people in any language but the one you're native.
I said "in general" because I wanted to emphasize it wasn't just a ERA thing. I wasn't attacking anyone for doing something. It sure happens here, but not because the way the website works, but because it happens everywhere in the world
As I said earlier (don't blame you, it probably wasn't very clear) what I meant, is that people have no trouble forgiving Gunn for the Twitter Jokes (As I said in this post, I think people shouldn't have to forgive him to star with). But I'm sure that a lot of people wouldn't forgive so easy if they came from another person, because Gunn is afaik is a likable person and he makes something people like
Last edited:
To be fair, people train for years to handle PR like this in a way that doesn't set the building on fire.
I'm struggling to see what this has to do with war crime denial and homophobia.
Then SE should license only the iconic stuff, and have the rest of the music be done in the house (or outsource to other reasonable music composer). This should be much cheaper then doing the whole OST twice, plus you got more consistent product (only few different songs between the west and the Japanese release).
The only way I will purchase this game will be used. And I'm not even sure I will then. As someone who was looking forward to it soooo much, I was devastated to hear about him in the previous thread - I legit had no idea he was that shitty of a person.
I talk about the War Crimes part later in that same post
I didn't say nothing about the homophobia part because that's already included in the "inmoral but not illegal" part.
The majority of Old people in conservative countries are not ""LGBT-Friendly"" In other news, water is wet. They shouldn't be, but they grew up during different times. As long as they don't go around beating people for being homosexual, they are not breaking any law
I mean, I'm not that old and I wasn't allowed to use the left hand to write in school because it was said to be associated with Satan
Square Enix basically said this: "Look, we totally don't associate ourselves with this guy's opinion. However, he's a legendary composer and very old. He has worked way too long for our company, and no matter how bad his opinion is, we can't let go of him. This might be a japanese thing westerners can't undersatnd, so we don't have to explain it further. So we will not do anything, eventhough we know his opinion is totally wrong. Thank you for paying attention to our statement. We hope you all will still buy Dragon Quest XI and shut up about this issue and never bring it up again."
I don't understand why companies even attempt to make statements like this. Look at Nvidia, everything just gets blown under the rug because they never comment ever, and so it never perpetuates. And the internet forgets in a fortnight, and moves on to something else. Now they have sparked the topic back to life.
I couldn't give less of a shit why somebody is homophobic or how legal their homophobia is.
I still don't get why you brought up Gunn like people supporting him but not supporting Sugiyama are hypocrites.
Because they aren't. Gunn and Sugiyama did different things, are in completely different situations right now, and have different views on the things they did.
There is no reason to bring Gunn up, and in doing so you are actively downplaying the stuff Sugiyama is doing, whether you mean to or not.
You guys are expecting a lot out of an 87 year old conservative Japanese man. He's been a terrible person for longer than most of us have been alive. The company would lose face by kicking him to the curb due to some minor foreign outrage.
I'm more curious about how the LGBT representation in the actual game will go over in the west, and how it was localized. That actually shows more about SE than the composer's personal views.
I'm more curious about how the LGBT representation in the actual game will go over in the west, and how it was localized. That actually shows more about SE than the composer's personal views.
What happens after this old far dies? He owns the music, will Square be able to still use DQ music on future games without him being alive and choose to even include orquestrated tracks because it's 2018 for fuck's sakes and we're still using MIDI on a high budget JRPG thats guaranteed to sell millions being released on a PS4 blu-ray disc because bullshit concerts?
If you are talking only about the music only then I take the DQV themes over any FF themes.
It just shows how good it is.
His work is amazing.
User Banned (Permanent): Making inflammatory false equivalencies and rationalising homophobia. Junior account.
Gunn is an "Artist", Gunn makes "Art", people like what Gunn makes. Gunn says bad thing, people forgive him
Sugiyama is an "Artist", Sugiyama makes "Art", people like what Sugiyama makes. Sugiyama says bad thing, people don't forgive him
This is what I compared, not what they said, only the situation. Didn't call anyone an hypocrite
And people downplay Nazi Germany by calling 13 y/o Anarcho-capitalists from 4chan or rich kids with sweaters tied around waist Nazis, on a daily basis but that's okay
Big surprise, it's a non-statement. Square-Enix is clearly afraid of alienating Sugiyama or any part of the Japanese fan base. Reminds me of American publishers' weak-ass response to Gamergate: keep their heads down and hope it blows over without the need for any real action. Just another reminder that corporations generally favor expedience above all else.
Even if they cut ties with that guy nothing would change. Anything short of running some serious program internally to improve the sensitivity towards minorities (of any kind), bring it to western standards (which are already pretty low tbh) and stop running harmful stereotypes from 30 fucking years ago in their games is hot bullshit. And they absolutely know it.
It might be because one apologised and changed and the other hasn't.
Empty statement given how Sugiyama still holds those views and his assholery is making the games worse.
Thanks... that did a way better summary... I don't understand Japanese so it helped.
I'm pretty sure they're stuck with him until he's dead, which is why they're not doing anything. Well, that, and DQ has a much, much, much bigger audience in Japan and I kind of doubt there was any outrage there over this. Sucks, but I don't blame SE. I highly doubt they want to keep using this sack of shit that produces music that actively turns people off from the game lol. They have plenty of other extremely talented composers at their disposal.
I wouldn't mind either.
tbh I'm very sick of the Dragon Quest theme
I wouldn't mind either.
tbh I'm very sick of the Dragon Quest theme
What exactly is your point? I just said I'll take any freelance composer over him.
You respond by saying "I like dragon quest music more than final fantasy!"
And I'm like "Ok..."
It obvious my point is that any freelance won't reach the same level of quality lol
I'm quoting this for the people to understand that Sugiyama isn't an SE employee and Square cannot fire him. The problem is even more precarious due to the fact that Sugiyama owns has full copyright control over the music.
This is not a case like Nobuo Uematsu was once an employee for Square and his music is owned by Square because of his association with them. Sugiyama was never an employee for Enix so he is not beholden to them.
If the solution was to simply stop working with Sugiyama is one thing, the problem is the only way for Square to get around this is to completely remove all of Sugiyama's music from the games which that in itself comes with its own set of issues. Case in point they would never be able to continue to sell the current games or re-releases of any current DQ games or spin offs on any market because of the music license being tied to Sugiyama.
I think once Sugiyama dies Square needs to get in contact with Hayato Matsuo to take over.
He did the arrangements for several DQ games, notably the DS remakes of IV, V, and VI. He also worked with Hitoshi Sakimoto on several games notably Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen, and Ogre Battle 64, and apparently did some work even on FFXII.
I mean the classical music influence is present and isn't too different that wouldn't be out of place for a Dragon Quest game.
His history of work speaks well for itself - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayato_Matsuo#Video_games
What's the point? If you find out someone donates to Anti-lgbt groups and laughs at them committing suicide, of course people would demand change, it's worked before. If the issue is brought up more and more and if fortunately DQXI bombs, it'll force SE to respond with actual results.
Cutting him will risk capsizing sales in Japan, which is far more important than the rest of the world for DQ.
And even that assumes they're capable of cutting him, which they aren't. People really underestimate how much control Sugiyama has. Getting rid of all that to slightly raise the sales ceiling in the west is not worth significantly lowering the sales ceiling in Japan.
I don't care about the sales ceiling. I care about that evil piece of shit being deprived of an income source and a platform to spread his hate. Fuck Sugiyama.
I'm not disagreeing, but that isn't what I'm saying. I'm just talking about how unrealistic it is for sqex to cut him because ultimately, they're a business and sales take precedent over morality. People can boycott here, but the only consequence that will have is no more DQ in the west, not getting rid of the bigot.
If it bombs, it's not because of this. I think fans already gave up on it being a major success.
After Octopath I believe it will do pretty well in the west... the game is really great from what I see.
Now what means major success? I'm on the over 1 million side... if it reaches 2 million then it was a major success.