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winstein

Member
Oct 28, 2017
593
Malaysia
Since I mentioned that I wanted to play Lost World, I have also played Sonic Generations after finishing Sonic Lost World. I am sorry to say that I found some things to enjoy in both games.

As a preface, I have never played a boost Sonic game at this point, although I tackled Sonic Generations after completing Sonic Lost World. That means unlike the vocal Sonic fans out there, I have not experienced what is the definitively best way to control 3D Sonic. By comparison, the only 3D Sonic games I have played prior to Lost World were 3D Blast and Heroes.

In my opinion, controlling Sonic is decent, because of the ability to control Sonic's speed. On areas with precise platforming, the ability to go slower for precision reasons is a godsend, but I think that, given how running is the norm, the button should be used for going slower instead. There's also the ability to run up walls or along the walls which is a great way to move around the terrain, even though completion of the game doesn't require this (although some Red Rings require them). Strengthening homing attacks is also a neat idea, especially in Time Attack modes since scoring multiple hits take longer than in a 2D game, though I would prefer it if I know how to control the strength. It's also neat that there is an option to either hit homed enemies normally or to kick them into other enemies. And then there's the Spin Dash. I think this version of the Spin Dash is really good because if you can hold the Spin Dash while rolling you can keep going at great speeds until you jump or hit something that you can't defeat. The biggest gripe I have with the control is that, when using the Switch Pro Controller, the inventory is assigned to the left stick as opposed to the right stick. This is very troublesome because as you might be aware, the left stick is primarily used for movement, so accidentally pressing it will halt Sonic's movements, which is bad during the intense parkour moments (like in Silent Forest 3's Red Ring).

I imagine that this game might scare off potential players, because this is on the difficult side among Sonic games. The unconventional control scheme is one thing, but there's also the fact that this game have certain portions that are difficult to get past, especially in Lava Mountain. It's even more difficult in Time Attack, where there are no checkpoints so you have to start the level all over again if Sonic is dead. In fact, I didn't bother to complete Time Attack in Lava Mountain Zone 2 and 3 due to being tough. At least it's not the 3DS version, which I heard is more different and difficult than the others, except possibly Lava Mountain (which are boss-only levels).

I guess I'm not as critical as everyone else, as I think it's a good direction for a 3D Sonic game since I feel that it has a lot of potential. I am sure my opinion is very disagreeable because it's contrary to the popular opinion (which is how Lost World is not good).

In terms of control for Sonic Generations, past Sonic (known as Classic Sonic but I feel that in the context of this game he is supposed to be past Sonic) felt kinda stiff. Present Sonic seems fine probably because it felt like the developers has a better understanding of the character. In any case, this game has glitches here and there, and there were a couple of times when I was stuck in a wall and can't get out, and one where past Sonic fell through the terrain. While the controls and gameplay could be better, the level designs more than make up for it. I am surprised by how well the levels are designed, which makes up for how this game looks (I think it's too realistic for my tastes) and the controls. There's also the fact that each level has some feature to write home about, such as City Escape's GUN lorry and Rooftop Run's giant clock.

Sonic Generations is also surprisingly packed with content, since I haven't even cleared all the Challenges. The friend-based challenges are really cool, especially the Vector Rooftop Run one, so I am sad to see in videos of the Super Mario Generations mod that the friends weren't completely replaced (meaning for example, Knuckles is still digging for coins in Sky Sanctuary instead of Wario).

Thank you for reading.
 

Waddle Dee

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,725
California
What's the general consensus on Aquatic Ruin as a stage

It's one of my favorite stages in the game but it does suffer from a few cheap enemies placements and a couple platforms are finicky to reach when underwater.

Since I mentioned that I wanted to play Lost World, I have also played Sonic Generations after finishing Sonic Lost World. I am sorry to say that I found some things to enjoy in both games.

As a preface, I have never played a boost Sonic game at this point, although I tackled Sonic Generations after completing Sonic Lost World. That means unlike the vocal Sonic fans out there, I have not experienced what is the definitively best way to control 3D Sonic. By comparison, the only 3D Sonic games I have played prior to Lost World were 3D Blast and Heroes.

In my opinion, controlling Sonic is decent, because of the ability to control Sonic's speed. On areas with precise platforming, the ability to go slower for precision reasons is a godsend, but I think that, given how running is the norm, the button should be used for going slower instead. There's also the ability to run up walls or along the walls which is a great way to move around the terrain, even though completion of the game doesn't require this (although some Red Rings require them). Strengthening homing attacks is also a neat idea, especially in Time Attack modes since scoring multiple hits take longer than in a 2D game, though I would prefer it if I know how to control the strength. It's also neat that there is an option to either hit homed enemies normally or to kick them into other enemies. And then there's the Spin Dash. I think this version of the Spin Dash is really good because if you can hold the Spin Dash while rolling you can keep going at great speeds until you jump or hit something that you can't defeat. The biggest gripe I have with the control is that, when using the Switch Pro Controller, the inventory is assigned to the left stick as opposed to the right stick. This is very troublesome because as you might be aware, the left stick is primarily used for movement, so accidentally pressing it will halt Sonic's movements, which is bad during the intense parkour moments (like in Silent Forest 3's Red Ring).

I imagine that this game might scare off potential players, because this is on the difficult side among Sonic games. The unconventional control scheme is one thing, but there's also the fact that this game have certain portions that are difficult to get past, especially in Lava Mountain. It's even more difficult in Time Attack, where there are no checkpoints so you have to start the level all over again if Sonic is dead. In fact, I didn't bother to complete Time Attack in Lava Mountain Zone 2 and 3 due to being tough. At least it's not the 3DS version, which I heard is more different and difficult than the others, except possibly Lava Mountain (which are boss-only levels).

I guess I'm not as critical as everyone else, as I think it's a good direction for a 3D Sonic game since I feel that it has a lot of potential. I am sure my opinion is very disagreeable because it's contrary to the popular opinion (which is how Lost World is not good).

In terms of control for Sonic Generations, past Sonic (known as Classic Sonic but I feel that in the context of this game he is supposed to be past Sonic) felt kinda stiff. Present Sonic seems fine probably because it felt like the developers has a better understanding of the character. In any case, this game has glitches here and there, and there were a couple of times when I was stuck in a wall and can't get out, and one where past Sonic fell through the terrain. While the controls and gameplay could be better, the level designs more than make up for it. I am surprised by how well the levels are designed, which makes up for how this game looks (I think it's too realistic for my tastes) and the controls. There's also the fact that each level has some feature to write home about, such as City Escape's GUN lorry and Rooftop Run's giant clock.

Sonic Generations is also surprisingly packed with content, since I haven't even cleared all the Challenges. The friend-based challenges are really cool, especially the Vector Rooftop Run one, so I am sad to see in videos of the Super Mario Generations mod that the friends weren't completely replaced (meaning for example, Knuckles is still digging for coins in Sky Sanctuary instead of Wario).

Thank you for reading.

Lost World (on Wii U) isn't a particularly bad game... It actually does have a few good ideas. But considering how under cooked everything is, "ideas" is all they're likely to ever be. And that game is FULL of ideas, and for every good one, there's three bad ones.

At this point I don't have many strong feelings about Lost World, considering Forces went bac kthe the (much better, imo) Boost Formula, but made it significantly worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
485
It's good to see the game apparently performing a bit better and looking a bit cleaner (probably helped by the contrasting background). Not sure what was with the Eagle footage or possible weird Knuckles overdub, as well as the skybox around that volcano(?), but details like that aside I'm glad things are shaping up overall. Despite not being transformed I'm in the boat (sorry) that thinks the team focus could still provide some pretty dynamic and enjoyable gameplay if the cards are laid down right. I'll be looking forward to Gamescom footage.

#FreeCream

4- who is doing the music again?

I think it was confirmed Senoue is the primary composer, and the music so far reflects that.

are you finally going to tell us what the snow track is called :(

(looks great though, can't wait)

It's called Ice Mountain going by the Sega Gamescom press release.

but...I don't think it's related to Advance's Ice Mountain though lol.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702


This is one of the most elaborate reskins I've ever seen.

a2qXRGa.png


aaaaaaaa
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Just wanted to chime in and say that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is still a great game.
In fact it may just be my fav. game of 16-bit mainstream console era.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
It's still my favorite game of all time and I really don't see that changing any time soon.
*Fist bump*
I should mention that visually it is among my top 10 between the SNES and MD as well.
Sonic's 3 sprite is my fav. sprite of his, I just like the tone of the blue and the overall colours in the game.

BTW is there an 'official' map of Angel Island that SEGA compiled? I know you can see a part of it in S&K's intro but I kinda like to think of it as the 'other half' of the island and in 3 you are going at the frontal side of it.
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,654
BTW is there an 'official' map of Angel Island that SEGA compiled? I know you can see a part of it in S&K's intro but I kinda like to think of it as the 'other half' of the island and in 3 you are going at the frontal side of it.
q0bUvWG.jpg


From the JP Sonic 3 and S&K manuals.
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,654
But the Robotnik face part of the Death Egg was facing down into the volcano.
There's also a distinct lack of giant mushrooms.
That's Launch Base. The Death Egg hasn't taken off yet, and thus has also not crashed yet.

The forested bit just to the right of it is probably Mushroom Hill, or as it was originally named, Mushroom Valley. The trees are a lot taller than the mushrooms are.
 

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
That's Launch Base. The Death Egg hasn't taken off yet, and thus has also not crashed yet.

The forested bit just to the right of it is probably Mushroom Hill, or as it was originally named, Mushroom Valley. The trees are a lot taller than the mushrooms are.
But if it's from the Sonic & Knuckles manual shouldn't it be showing the Death Egg as it is in that game after crashing at the end of Sonic 3?
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,654
The piece didn't change between games. I assume it's Yasuhara's original concept art for the island, and he wouldn't have had any reason to do a new one just for that.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
Shadow getting in Smash Bros as an Echo Fighter is looking increasingly likely.
That would have bothered me an extreme amount before Richter was announced, now it is just kind of unfortunate.

It is a lot to ask but I do hope if that happens that every third party gets a third rep through through an echo fighter. Ken Masters would be pretty cool.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
Personally, I'd love to see the entire artstyle be more flexible and simplified and character designs diversified.Diana Skelly's redesign concepts were so good
, though I don't think most of the character redesigns should be that drastic, just an example.
Maybe something akin to Toei's '60s era films?
lilprince-mori.jpg

I dunno, just daydreaming.

Love how they're just doing this.

Ok so I would like them to become more flexible and actually a bit more complicated actually? I think Tangle, Rough and Tumble and whisper ( kinda ) show were design wise the sonic main characters should be going. More modern a bit more complex shoes, maybe a jacket or scarf depending on the character or pants in the case of tangle and whisper and some more lines on characters who have those sorts of designs like shadow. But that's about as complex as I would like it to get.

In terms of like flexibility yes I would like it more flexible, i remember seeing a redesign don't remember where that had the characters at different hights but not at the jarring degree sonic boom had them. Like knuckles was bit bigger and bulkier than sonic, shadow too actually, but less so it looked really neat. I think sonic is due for a more fluid less regid and a bit more more modern design change and hopefully it gets it.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Knuckles assist trophy had a homing attack in today's stream and it personally irritated me. And dont talk to me about Sonic Advance 3.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Australia
Shadow getting in Smash Bros as an Echo Fighter is looking increasingly likely.

I'd prefer Jeanne as a Bayo echo if we were gonna get a third SEGA character, but Shadow would be fine or whatever. I can't really muster up too much more than a shoulder shrug either way about him at this point.

Unless it means we'd get All Hail Shadow (HEROES RISE AGAIN) on the soundtrack, in which case I'd be all for it
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
I'd prefer Jeanne as a Bayo echo if we were gonna get a third SEGA character, but Shadow would be fine or whatever. I can't really muster up too much more than a shoulder shrug either way about him at this point.

Unless it means we'd get All Hail Shadow (HEROES RISE AGAIN) on the soundtrack, in which case I'd be all for it
Ima blast that song on my.phone on the drive to work \m/
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
Knuckles assist trophy had a homing attack in today's stream and it personally irritated me. And dont talk to me about Sonic Advance 3.
Sonic and Wario are the two franchises repped in that series that I do not think Sakurai cares or knows much about honestly. It is unfortunate because he usually puts a crazy amount of love and attention into everything else, but no ones perfect, I guess.

I fully expect Shadow to be a really basic echo fighter. Maybe one of his Smash attacks is a pseudo Chaos Spear though.
 

jacket

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,983
Knuckles assist trophy had a homing attack in today's stream and it personally irritated me. And dont talk to me about Sonic Advance 3.
This post is very nuanced, and I get it.

Sonic and Wario are the two franchises repped in that series that I do not think Sakurai cares or knows much about honestly. It is unfortunate because he usually puts a crazy amount of love and attention into everything else, but no ones perfect, I guess.

I fully expect Shadow to be a really basic echo fighter. Maybe one of his Smash attacks is a pseudo Chaos Spear though.
Lame

1. I'm indifferent about Shadow
2. Knuckles should have been a character. Isn't Shadow already a trophy?
 

Waddle Dee

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,725
California
I'd vastly prefer Tails (as an original character, not an echo fighter) if we got another Sonic rep but I'd be legit surprised if Shadow doesn't make it in. We haven't seen his assist trophy, Knuckles has seemingly replaced him, and we now have a 3rd party Echo Fighter. I really think it's happening. It's going to make a ton of non-Sonic fans (and even some actual Sonic fans, I'm sure) upset and it'll be insane.

I'd prefer Jeanne as a Bayo echo if we were gonna get a third SEGA character, but Shadow would be fine or whatever. I can't really muster up too much more than a shoulder shrug either way about him at this point.

Unless it means we'd get All Hail Shadow (HEROES RISE AGAIN) on the soundtrack, in which case I'd be all for it

This alone would make him worth it, imo.

If Sakurai snuck in a "damn" line for Shadow, he would ascend into immortal godhood.

He needs to fix Sonic's generic-ass moveset before that happens.

Sonic and Wario are the two franchises repped in that series that I do not think Sakurai cares or knows much about honestly. It is unfortunate because he usually puts a crazy amount of love and attention into everything else, but no ones perfect, I guess.

I fully expect Shadow to be a really basic echo fighter. Maybe one of his Smash attacks is a pseudo Chaos Spear though.

Yeah, I completely agree. I remember being in 9th grade when Sonic got announced for Brawl and I was screaming with joy. In the end, I didn't even use Sonic all that much and mostly stuck to King Dedede as my go-to guy. Sonic's moveset is so uninspired. Most of his moves are either "rolls into ball cause that's what Sonic does, I guess" or is just some generic punching or kicking attack (only two of them look like they were directly taken from an actual Sonic game). I appreciate the amount of love and care that's gone into most other 3rd party characters (not just as fighters, but their stages, music, etc) but I can't help but wonder why Sonic didn't get the same treatment. I see how Castlevania has 34 tracks in the game and I wonder why Sonic hasn't been given that attention, considering how beloved the music in Sonic games is. The only 3rd party reps besides Sonic that are maybe a bit lacking are ones that were DLC for Smash 4 but even they all had vastly more interesting movesets that stayed true to their characters.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,452
Idk, I'm really lazy when it comes to Special stages. I just want to get the Emeralds as early as possible and not have to stress about them, so I appreciated the easiness to get them in Rush.
 

Waddle Dee

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,725
California
I actually had a good deal of trouble getting the last Emerald in Sonic Rush as a teenager. Eventually I learned about the "pause trick" and it became free.

They're really good Special Stages, though. Sonic Rush in general did a great job of taking advantage of the DS's unique functions without feeling gimmicky.