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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Who's the art director for a doujinshi? Or for a Light Novel where a editor don't even exist? Or in Xenoblade 2 where there was only a theme for the guest artists. It's not always that such position exists.

Yeah, Xenoblade 2 had no art director. The guest artists just received a message from god, sent in their artwork, and it magically turned into 3D models. The rest of the game similarly created itself by spontaneous generat-
e0voZ3W.jpg

Huh. Well, my theory is more entertaining, so I'm sticking with it.

And by that argument the character designer that does such things isn't at fault either, right? Since he's just picking up commissions for the work. If so, no one here can really criticize character designers but just the art director or someone who chose them.

- Dary's entire point is that if the character designer is cherry picking artists that will produce sexualized characters, then he's obviously sexualizing the character designs by proxy.
- But perhaps an even more troubling point is that if this happens enough (and in the current Japanese market, I have little doubt it does), female artists that are unwilling to create sexualized designs will soon find themselves unemployed. Think for a second about the implications.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
So there's a thread about anime mods in games and why people use them. The general consensus I get is that people find the art styles of many games quite ugly, and want to mod them into something more palatable for them. And that's good for them, mods are a great way of tailoring a game to suit your tastes.

However one game that came up a couple of times in that thread was Darkest Dungeon, a game normally praised for it's stark, bleak and somewhat gritty artstyle. Out of interest I took a look through the Steam Workshop to see what kind of visual overhauls people were using. All of the anime skin mods were for the female characters, many of which are labelled "sexy" and include some fairly drastic modifications to their outfits. I decided to do a quick count and found that 23 out of 34 of the anime skin mods I found were sexualised.

Now that's not to say that sexualised skins are unique to anime, there were quite a few non-anime skins that were heavily sexualised as well. But the fact that there was not a single male character anime skin along with the majority of said skins being sexualised, it seems to be less a case of "I don't like this game's aesthetics" and more "I don't think the women in this game are sexy enough", given that the male characters seem to be overlooked in such skin mods. I don't tend to look into aesthetic mods for other games (since I don't mind ugly looking characters much as long as they fit the setting/environment), so I don't know if this is a common thing across other games as well.

I don't really know where I'm going with this, I guess I just needed to vent a little.
 
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Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Anime fans that keep being bombared with sexualized women in their shows/games ends up doing mods about sexualizing women. I mean it's not that strange, and another reason why the overabundance of sexualized designs does have an effect. Sexualized women in anime styled works are so common that is seen as the "default" now.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
A good portion of mods for SSB Brawl aside from a few takes on nude ZSS were "XL" mods to make female characters looks "bigger" in both chest and rear ends. Always seemed weird to me because the game is usually too zoomed out to appreciate the change and it just looks "bloated" to me. Lots of great stuff too, dom't get me wrong. Games like SFV on PC seem to be mostly a mix between model swaps and female characters wearing less (to be fair, I haven't checked out the scene thoroughly)
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
So predictably, Seong Mi-Na is more of the same when it comes to SCVI's trend of oversexualizing their female cast:


At this point I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have to use the character creation 100% of the time just to have characters I can actually stand looking at. Sheesh.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,315
I hate Guilty Gears design's so much.

Not least of all because I tried to have a conversation with some people I know about how baiken (that's just who the conversation happened to be about cause one of them plays her) is a stupid design and obviously intended to be titillating.

"I think she looks cool!"

I think she MOSTLY does too but goddamn if that's really all you can say to giant boobs flopping around in the wind, what are you even doing with your life.

She'd look infinitely better if she had the wrappings like you see in a lot of female warriors depicted in ancient Japan. Just some sort of restriction. And SO MUCH COOLER, TOO. Literally that's all you need to change. C'MON.

Edit: oops double post IDIOT!!
I'm, probably unsurprisingly, a pretty big Guilty Gear fan.
I love the gameplay, music, characters.

But yeah, the outfits for women have some issues.
I was hoping when Millia received a decent outfit, that it would continue with designs for others, but unfortunately wasn't the case...
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
At this point I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have to use the character creation 100% of the time just to have characters I can actually stand looking at. Sheesh.

I've said before that the increasing sexualization makes it hard for me to support this franchise going forward. Soul Calibur is my favorite fighter bar none, and missing out sucks, but now I am at the point where I might not buy the game at all. As much as I want to play a good-ass fighter, I want to do away with this nonsense more.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,290
So predictably, Seong Mi-Na is more of the same when it comes to SCVI's trend of oversexualizing their female cast:

At this point I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have to use the character creation 100% of the time just to have characters I can actually stand looking at. Sheesh.
Not surprising, sadly. I don't really play fighting games anymore because they're just so gross now (my favorite is still Street Fighter III Third Strike).
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Random rant but the new MHW event made me remind about this:

qs4l6u.jpg


Like, can someone explain me the reason why the female version of the armor has a random ass hole in the belly area? Like, I just can't think anyone can find someone this random to be sexy but I just don't understand the reasoning, it looks so stupid! It feels like the designer said "oh shit women need to show skin somewhere no matter what but I dunno where to show skin" and just gave up and did that.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
That's one of the only instances of that happening in the game, which makes it even more bizarre and I hate it a lot. The only other example I can think of off the top of my head is the White Mage AF3 gear, which, idk, is a bit less offensive in my eyes but still pretty stupid.
 

V_Arnold

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,166
Hungary
So this has been bothering me quite a lot.
See this image?

04_female-terry01.jpg


Can you see what is wrong with it?
Not just the whole image. The fact that SHE IS BLUSHING.

I regularly see designs from japanese like this. They put her on a revealing costume, THEN MAKE HER BLUSH.
Why?

Can you even imagine men getting the same type of outfits? They would not even flinch. To them, being almost naked is empowering (at least that is how it is portrayed), and no one can say the same about the woman's outfit: even she does not feel okay with it.
This has to stop. At least the new Seong Mina is not blushing. Damn.
 

Thagomizer

Banned
Aug 4, 2018
6
User Banned (Permanent): Misogyny, low post count.
Also, notwithstanding, this is purely a cultural phenomenon. Many of the oversexualized women in japanese games are designed by women. It is only western culture that has issue with it. This cultural clash only exists because western women are intolerant of other cultures that appreciate oversexualization, cultures that see it as a compliment instead.

This is the reason why I don't really see any problem with oversexualizing women in games. Men are just as oversexualized too. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. The shirtless, beefy male protagonist with the strong jaw and rippling muscles. Everyone just wants something handsome to look at, but where men aspire, women envy. The visual influence is less empowering for women, because they feel it represents not only something they lack, but something unrealistic and unattainable. This is the main argument against oversexualization.

But that's what video games are for aren't they?

We play video games to experience the unrealistic. You can't go off and be superman in real life, so you play a video game to have fun doing it. The game industry is also not to blame here. Other entertainment industries from movies to magazines all use the female form to their advantage, because like it or not, sex sells. This would not be possible without the willing participation of women, so it's easy to claim women are oppressing themselves if the argument against oversexualization was true. The reality is, the main argument is not true, it's a proxy. The true argument is that less attractive women feel oppressed by more attractive women. However rather than aspiring to improve themselves, they would rather be offended. Why claim offense here? Has a fat man ever been offended by a muscle man? No, a fat man would typically strive to attain a better body, while a woman would rather be intolerant and simply loathe themselves for not being as attractive.

See this paper from the University of Texas:

"Some studies have shown that video games with these types of character designs have led to negative effects in women such as low self-esteem, depression, and a negative outlook on the female gender."

Now, why would this be the case? This paper was written by a woman, so she recognizes that some do not have the mental fortitude to look at oversexualized women. It is psychologically harming to women, but here's my problem with that: it shouldn't be the case. If women really want to enforce equality, then they must accept oversexualization exists and be tolerant of it. Men already are. You don't see men writing papers about how upset they are that men are so much more handsome and stronger than them in video games.
 
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Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,771
I don't really see any problem with oversexualizing women in games, because men are just as oversexualized. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. The shirtless, beefy male protagonist with the strong jaw and rippling muscles. Everyone just wants something handsome to look at, but where men aspire, women envy. The visual influence is less empowering for women, because they feel it represents not only something they lack, but something unrealistic and unattainable. This is the main argument against oversexualization.

The bolded has been thoroughly debunked in this thread already. And no, the women putting forth very well-reasoned posts about why they find certain designs objectionable are not merely jealous of these fictional character's assets. This is so fucking insulting and petty I don't know where to start.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
The bolded has been thoroughly debunked in this thread already. And no, the women putting forth very well-reasoned posts about why they find certain designs objectionable are not merely jealous of these fictional character's assets. This is so fucking insulting and petty I don't know where to start.

It's even addressed in the OP, but apparently the big capital READ OP in the title was too subtle.
 

Thagomizer

Banned
Aug 4, 2018
6
The bolded has been thoroughly debunked in this thread already. And no, the women putting forth very well-reasoned posts about why they find certain designs objectionable are not merely jealous of these fictional character's assets. This is so fucking insulting and petty I don't know where to start.

My assertion is mainly asking why is it objectionable? Other cultures find no issue with it. It is mainly western culture with judeo-christian values that see women as something to be covered and unseen.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,528
Also, notwithstanding, this is purely a cultural phenomenon. Many of the oversexualized women in japanese games are designed by women. It is only western culture that has issue with it. This cultural clash only exists because western women are intolerant of other cultures that appreciate oversexualization, seeing it as a compliment instead.
I mean, the past 40 years of American television go against this mindset. Also if you go to any eastern culture and show the random woman on the street images from works that pride themselves on being dependant on fanservice, you're going to get the same sneers you get here. The only real difference between the culture when it comes to this stuff is that purely fandom works are kept out of the minds of the public, because if you're spending a whole lot of time gawking over half naked imaginary girls, you're not doing enough with your life, while in America, the concept that sex sells is a muddy enough argument where catering to the lowest common denominator still ends up permeating nearly every bit of mass media we have.

My assertion is mainly asking why is it objectionable? Other cultures find no issue with it. It is mainly western culture with judeo-christian values that see women as something to be covered and unseen.

They totally do, but the people who'd ignore it or who'd rather things change usually aren't in positions to meaningfully bring about change because the concept of "it's not broke, so don't try and fix it" is super prevalent.

Also, let's not start equating otaku culture to mass media when it comes to eastern civilizations. The mere concept of shame blows up a lot of the whole "well japan's just more tolerant" argument. Yes, there are porn vending machines, but DON'T YOU DARE GET CAUGHT AT ONE!
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,744
My assertion is mainly asking why is it objectionable? Other cultures find no issue with it. It is mainly western culture with judeo-christian values that see women as something to be covered and unseen.
Yes, becaues if it's one thing Japan is known for, it's being sexually unrepressed /s

Psst, they actually censor nudity while the "west" doesn't.
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,478
My assertion is mainly asking why is it objectionable? Other cultures find no issue with it. It is mainly western culture with judeo-christian values that see women as something to be covered and unseen.
Aw, I wish it took longer for the ban to happen. I wanted to see how deep this line of thought went.

Yes, becaues if it's one thing Japan is known for, it's being sexually unrepressed /s

Psst, they actually censor nudity while the "west" doesn't.

B-b-but, but...Puritanism!
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,280
So this has been bothering me quite a lot.
See this image?

04_female-terry01.jpg


Can you see what is wrong with it?
Not just the whole image. The fact that SHE IS BLUSHING.

I regularly see designs from japanese like this. They put her on a revealing costume, THEN MAKE HER BLUSH.
Why?

Can you even imagine men getting the same type of outfits? They would not even flinch. To them, being almost naked is empowering (at least that is how it is portrayed), and no one can say the same about the woman's outfit: even she does not feel okay with it.
This has to stop. At least the new Seong Mina is not blushing. Damn.

In this particular instance, the blushing is because that is literally Terry Bogard after being magically transformed into a woman and he is uncomfortable and weirded out by it. So it's like this whole other set of problematic issues.

(Shockingly, he has never had any costumes that are a fraction as revealing as this one)
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
So...that's Terry, and that image is supposed to him being surprised that he's been turned into a girl. That's why he's blushing.

That whole...thing...is a lot.

In this particular instance, the blushing is because that is literally Terry Bogard after being magically transformed into a woman and he is uncomfortable and weirded out by it. So it's like this whole other set of problematic issues.

(Shockingly, he has never had any costumes that are a fraction as revealing as this one)

Although true in that case, the point still stands because the rest of the cast is shown blushing too .

My assertion is mainly asking why is it objectionable? Other cultures find no issue with it. It is mainly western culture with judeo-christian values that see women as something to be covered and unseen.

Man, the amount of ignorance in this matter about cultures is staggering...
 

V_Arnold

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,166
Hungary
Wow, so that is literally Terry. Hah.
Regardless, I picked this particular image because just today I talked to someone about the blushing thing, had that in mind and THEN I saw this picture. So my point still remains.
 

Eintopf

Member
Jul 8, 2018
783
UK
Why do people think that the West is afraid for women to show skin? I haven't seen it, but doesn't Game of Thrones have quite a bit of nudity? There's even a TV show in the UK called Naked Attraction, which is a dating show where a man or woman picks someone to go on a date with purely based on the naked bodies of 4 or 5 people. I remember it being pretty progressive.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,967
In this particular instance, the blushing is because that is literally Terry Bogard after being magically transformed into a woman and he is uncomfortable and weirded out by it.

In which case he wouldn't stand there as if he wanted to present the body to an audience. Or however one could try to interpret that stance, though it most certainly is not one of body discomfort.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Why do people think that the West is afraid for women to show skin? I haven't seen it, but doesn't Game of Thrones have quite a bit of nudity? There's even a TV show in the UK called Naked Attraction, which is a dating show where a man or woman picks someone to go on a date with purely based on the naked bodies of 4 or 5 people. I remember it being pretty progressive.

Ignorance.

For example GoT nudity is censored in Japan. That's why those comparisons are stupid.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,528
Why do people think that the West is afraid for women to show skin? I haven't seen it, but doesn't Game of Thrones have quite a bit of nudity? There's even a TV show in the UK called Naked Attraction, which is a dating show where a man or woman picks someone to go on a date with purely based on the naked bodies of 4 or 5 people. I remember it being pretty progressive.

Because people still think it's 2002.

Arguably the 2 biggest shows on television, Game of Thrones and WestWorld, absolutely revel in both male and female nudity.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
Why do people think that the West is afraid for women to show skin? I haven't seen it, but doesn't Game of Thrones have quite a bit of nudity? There's even a TV show in the UK called Naked Attraction, which is a dating show where a man or woman picks someone to go on a date with purely based on the naked bodies of 4 or 5 people. I remember it being pretty progressive.
Honestly, I do not think all the people coming in this thread believe that. I think they are trying to mask their dislike of women critiquing sexualized designs by trying to frame themselves as progressive. This often involves them removing context from our critiques. "Americans are repressed because they want to cover up women!" while ignoring that the design is for a female soldier/young girl/ect..
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,528
I see the weekly example of why we need this dialogue so much dropped by.

Gotta love the argument of "women don't try to better themselves when compared to and expected to conform to an unrealistic standard of beauty dictated by the male aspect of modern pop culture, they'd just rather complain and sulk".
Like christ dude.
 

Eintopf

Member
Jul 8, 2018
783
UK
Honestly, I do not think all the people coming in this thread believe that. I think they are trying to mask their dislike of women critiquing sexualized designs by trying to frame themselves as progressive. This often involves them removing context from our critiques. "Americans are repressed because they want to cover up women!" while ignoring that the design is for a female soldier/young girl/ect..
Yeah. That seems pretty spot-on.
 

Deleted member 37107

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 31, 2017
404
Chicago
Japan also has these laws where nipples and genetalia can't be shown right? That's why that gross tentacle hentai shit exists and I guess why you have girls in super skintight clothing.
Yup, they do optically pixelate/fog full frontal nudity. The "gross tentacle hentai shit" comes from Ukio-e an old artform that, well... is part of their culture and it lead up to the stuff you hate in order to circumvent censorship.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,489
Wow, so that is literally Terry. Hah.
Regardless, I picked this particular image because just today I talked to someone about the blushing thing, had that in mind and THEN I saw this picture. So my point still remains.
Just because there's an in-universe argument for them being depicted like that doesn't suddenly mean what you said is invalid. If that weren't the case, then people might've actually taken characters like Quiet and those millennia-old girls who look like they're twelve seriously, and not said "come on, really?"
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,290
I see the weekly example of why we need this dialogue so much dropped by.
Yep.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180802_37/
Informed sources say Tokyo Medical University has for years rigged entrance exams to limit its intake of women students, slashing their scores by well over 10 percent across-the-board.
Clearly it's just that women aren't trying to better themselves! Japan's just too progressive for everyone to understand!
 

Deleted member 5593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
i guess you can say men are objectified rather than sexualized

this is objectified
330


this is sexualized


well nevermind he's banned

Neither of those are objectified or sexualized in the context of this thread...

THIS is what a male character objectified/sexualized to the scale of what female characters are in videogames would look like:
if-male-video-game-characters-were-dressed-like-female-characters-22329907.png


3199b40b72b262f93d282f30958916e8.jpg
 
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Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
The true argument is that less attractive women feel oppressed by more attractive women. However rather than aspiring to improve themselves, they would rather be offended.
(...)If women really want to enforce equality, then they must accept oversexualization exists and be tolerant of it.

I see the weekly misogyny made a drive-by. This is what many men actually believe. This kind of fragility permeates geek fandom. Blame women for anything, accept no responsibility, just blame women.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I see the weekly misogyny made a drive-by. This is what many men actually believe. This kind of fragility permeates geek fandom. Blame women for anything, accept no responsibility, just blame women.
It's just bizarre, talking about women like they are a different species as if that poster is a special kind of observer with 'scientific' insight that women themselves don't have.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
I see the weekly misogyny made a drive-by. This is what many men actually believe. This kind of fragility permeates geek fandom. Blame women for anything, accept no responsibility, just blame women.

But why are women leaving Era though?

And why aren't people who play games call themselves gamers though?
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Guys, he had all of six post in his account including the ones in this thread. Don't let him derail the thread.

Neither of those are objectified or sexualized in the context of this thread...

THIS is what a male character objectified/sexualized to the scale of what female characters are in videogames would look like:
if-male-video-game-characters-were-dressed-like-female-characters-22329907.png


3199b40b72b262f93d282f30958916e8.jpg

The fact that a mod had to edit your post to put a spoiler / NSFW warning on the images, when the female equivalents don't even blip anyone's radars anymore, is so meta that I can't help but find it hilarious despite myself. :)
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The fact that a mod had to edit your post to put a spoiler / NSFW warning on the images, when the female equivalents don't even blip anyone's radars anymore, is so meta that I can't help but find it hilarious despite myself. :)
Hah!

To be fair I try to avoid looking at this thread on my phone at work for obvious reasons- I'm not convinced me explaining to my colleagues that 'I was offering a damning takedown of these JRPG character designs of lingerie and swimsuit-clad young women who happen to be adventurers' would be Met with anything other than a sarcastic 'sure you are'!

What was even worse was uploading pics of my family from my phone to my computer in order to get some images of us printed out, only for my Mac to import all of the examples of shitty design I've posted in this thread at the same time too. That took a little explaining and showing this thread to my wife (hi darling!).
 
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zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
It's just bizarre, talking about women like they are a different species as if that poster is a special kind of observer with 'scientific' insight that women themselves don't have.

It's not that complicated (just fucked up), if you don't interact with women or any given group of humans, you become desentisized and lack empathy towards that group. This guy probably has no female friends.
 

RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
This is going to be a bit off-topic (not too much, since it still relates to women and its potrayal in media, but still). But after reading a bit through the thread about the use of rape in narrative (which admitedly, I didn't fully read since it was 11 pages) I've been thinking about making a thread about the use of rape and other forms of sexual violence in the Witcher books. I'd rather leave the games off in this case, since they're not made by the same writters.

I find the books to be an interesting case, because they come across as progressive in most aspects. The books is full of women that hold positions of power and you'll never see them being questioned for their gender, to give an example.

The problem is that during the 4th and especially 5th books there are a lot of allusions of rape and pillage. At this point Geralt is trying to travel to Nilfgaard by foot and goes across the frontlines a bunch of times. It shows both the views of Geralt, who is repulsed by it, and the soldiers, which feel entitled to it.

If there is any interest here (and people willing to engage in the discussion, whether they've read the books or not) I could create a thread and talk more in-depth about it. I don't want to write a wall of text that would fall into oblivion after 5 people view it and no one fully reads it :P
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Hah!

To be fair I try to avoid looking at this thread on my phone at work for obvious reasons- I'm not convinced me explaining to my colleagues that 'I was offering a damning takedown of these JRPG character designs of lingerie and swimsuit-clad young women who happen to be adventurers' would be Met with anything other than a sarcastic 'sure you are'!

What was even worse was uploading pics of my family from my phone to my computer in order to get some images of us printed out, only for my Mac to import all of the examples of shitty design I've posted in this thread at the same time too. That took a little explaining and showing this thread to her (hi darling!).

Hahah, that's amazing. :D

Almost entirely unrelated, but "awkward explaining" reminds me of the time that, for reasons too long to explain, a friend of mine had to carry a Masterpiece Megatron, in gun form, in his bag, to a concert. i.e. this:
tf_20meg09.jpg

He was sweating about the possibility he was made to open the bag and show its contents to security. :)

This is going to be a bit off-topic (not too much, since it still relates to women and its potrayal in media, but still). But after reading a bit through the thread about the use of rape in narrative (which admitedly, I didn't fully read since it was 11 pages) I've been thinking about making a thread about the use of rape and other forms of sexual violence in the Witcher books. I'd rather leave the games off in this case, since they're not made by the same writters.

I find the books to be an interesting case, because they come across as progressive in most aspects. The books is full of women that hold positions of power and you'll never see them being questioned for their gender, to give an example.

The problem is that during the 4th and especially 5th books there are a lot of allusions of rape and pillage. At this point Geralt is trying to travel to Nilfgaard by foot and goes across the frontlines a bunch of times. It shows both the views of Geralt, who is repulsed by it, and the soldiers, which feel entitled to it.

If there is any interest here (and people willing to engage in the discussion, whether they've read the books or not) I could create a thread and talk more in-depth about it. I don't want to write a wall of text that would fall into oblivion after 5 people view it and no one fully reads it :P

I don't think a thread about rape will get five views, but you might not get the reaction you want. I don't much remember it's depiction in the Witcher books unjustified; if I'm not wrong, it's mentioned more or less in passing, not graphically described, and the latter books depict a world going to shit because of war, atrocities and all. I remember Game of Thrones as being considerably worse.

It's been many years since I read them and it's quite possible I overlooked a lot of it back then, but I would assume most Witcher fans to have the same initial reaction than me or worse, and will probably jump to its defense unless (and probably even if) you can make an ironclad case about it.
 
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Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,528
Hahah, that's amazing. :D

Almost entirely unrelated, but "awkward explaining" reminds me of the time that, for reasons too long to explain, a friend of mine had to carry a Masterpiece Megatron, in gun form, in his bag, to a concert. i.e. t:Tha
tf_20meg09.jpg

He was sweating about the possibility he was made to open the bag and show its contents to security. :)

That's how you get shot by the police.
 
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