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TF2 competitive players make light of harassment and sexual abuse sparking controversy.

CannonFodder52

CannonFodder52

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
I'm currently trying to get a grasp on this whole event as it seems to have unfolded over the last 20 hours. I don't follow Team Fortress 2 but was informed of this and I feel like it deserves attention. I'll detail the events that I know about.
To make the thread legible I put most of the evidence or screenshots within spoiler tags.

-Yesterday, creator, event organiser and valued member of the community, Uberchain went public with the harassment that she's had to deal with in the TF2 scene, including sexual abuse. https://twitter.com/uberchain/status/1026205810823639040

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-Two players from the major European competitive league (ETF2L) responded by telling her to "log off" and calling her an "ugly gook cunt."
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Degu's non apology:
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-The TF2 competitive community is apparently debating whether these two players should be banned from the league.
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-TF2 map maker Phi (famous for maps such as cp sunshine) has also come out today and said she is leaving the scene in part due to transphobia targeted against her in the past.
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-Other past instances of major toxicity in the community have resurfaced due to this discussion. This included player Tagg's departure from the TF2 competitive scene due to heavy racism.
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-Twitter user Doomsday seems to have documented quite a bit of stuff regarding this.
https://twitter.com/doomsday__exe


(Edit) Update: some good news

-Geel, owner of some major trading sites and the financial backer of a lot of tournaments has come out and said he won't be involved in events that allow these players to participate.
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-ChampGG who own PugChamp, apparently a very relevant place for TF2 players to play pick up games, has also come out with a statement. Link
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-Same with TF2League. Link
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PMS341

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
MrPhiliasfrog said:
This is horrible and disgusting. Why is it so hard for men to be respectful towards women.
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It's like that old Sonic Cycle image but it keeps rotating between MY PERSONALITY IS SHIT ---> GIRLS WON'T HAVE SEX WITH ME ---> I NEED TO HARASS WOMEN ONLINE TO FEEL A MODICUM OF SELF-WORTH
 
Mobyduck

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
I'm guessing Phi is leaving in response to Uber speaking out? Either way, those responses are awful, and unfortunately I doubt we will see much reaction from the people in the community.

Awful, awful stuff coming from the TF2 community.
 
A Dog

A Dog

Banned
May 17, 2018
166
User Banned (1 Month): Downplaying sexism and harassment. Junior account.
People are assholes. It happens.
 
Rickenslacker

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
I'm familiar with those that have come out with their abuse, and it's such a god damn bummer. The stuff listed is just fucking vile, and what I've seen of etf2l and hl2tv's forum interactions have generally been juvenile shitpiles. Even on a casual level I think TF2 has an issue with this that extends further than most games because of the level of customization available to the player which then normalizes these garbage attitudes and it sucks coming from a game that's been so big for me.
 
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MattWilsonCSS

MattWilsonCSS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,349
Grimminski said:
And people get offended when I say gaming is filled with trash
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And before anyone comes in here to defend gamers or the perception of gamers, know that if you do that, you're prioritizing your own feelings over the awful things that have happened to these TF2 players.

This is some seriously heinous shit from a community that should know better. And to do it so frequently and so blatantly is inexcusable.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,018
A Dog said:
People are assholes. It happens.
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No. Fix it.

MattWilsonCSS said:
And before anyone comes in here to defend gamers or the perception of gamers, know that if you do that, you're prioritizing your own feelings over the awful things that have happened to these TF2 players.

This is some seriously heinous shit from a community that should know better. And to do it so frequently and so blatantly is inexcusable.
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It seems like we've been seeing a lot of excuses for a lot of behaviour over the past few days, and they're always coming from those misaligned priorities.
 
NoName999

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Yet another reason added to the possibly hundred thousand reasons why people who play games don't refer to themselves as gamers.

And for a culture that's just wants everyone to "shut up and play games", they sure do love spewing their irrelevant, garbage opinions.
 
Grimminski

Grimminski

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,130
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Jazzem

Jazzem

Member
Feb 2, 2018
2,683
Fucking hell :( I hate that this isn't especially surprising to hear. Fuck Degu, Domago and any other victim blaming shitheads bereft of basic human decency
 
darz1

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,087
Wow. What a toxic bunch of shits. And the guy she was in a relationship with sounds like a real manipulative dirtbag.

MattWilsonCSS said:
And before anyone comes in here to defend gamers or the perception of gamers, know that if you do that, you're prioritizing your own feelings over the awful things that have happened to these TF2 players.

This is some seriously heinous shit from a community that should know better. And to do it so frequently and so blatantly is inexcusable.
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We have already discussed in the other thread the fact that many different people have many different definitions of what ot means to be a gamer. Lets not derail this thread by opening up that same discussion in here shall we?
 
Kurdel

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Terrible, but can't say I'm surprised at this point.

I am glad she has spoken out, it takes a lot of courage!
 
BlackJace

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,450
I'm not sure the gaming community can escape this cesspool. This is too far gone, and it's goddamn depressing.

I hope it was worth it to dehumanize others who enjoy the same hobby as you do, fellas!
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,933
That list is horrible and the responses indicate that the community will be unlikely to really change.
 

Deleted member 5853

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,725
Worst part is, Valve won't do anything. The TF2 team is basically a skeleton crew and I doubt anyone Valve seriously gives a fuck about actual moderation in their games' communities.
 
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CannonFodder52

CannonFodder52

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
Update: some good news

-Geel, owner of some major trading sites and the financial backer of a lot of tournaments has come out and said he won't be involved in events that allow these players to participate.

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-ChampGG who own PugChamp, apparently a very relevant place for TF2 players to play pick up games, has also come out with a statement. Link

gr3r4M5.png


-Same with TF2League. Link

7IhaIBL.png
 
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Mobyduck

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Good to hear. This will hopefully set the mood for the discussion within their community about the issue and how people should behave.
 
Hoa

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
4,304
BlackJace said:
I'm not sure the gaming community can escape this cesspool. This is too far gone, and it's goddamn depressing.

I hope it was worth it to dehumanize others who enjoy the same hobby as you do, fellas!
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Some parts of the gaming community are further along than others, but given the history surrounding this stuff it's definitely going to take a lot of time. Hope people will continue to use social media and other avenues to expose and attack these shitty actions and attitudes.
 
potatohead

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
The worst thing about this is knowing how long culture changes will take to institute.

And what's even worse is that not everyone agrees how assholes people are (because it's a lot). And fighting that now is part of the problem, it's such a difficult road.

I hate to say it but I don't think in my lifetime these issues will be solved. The people who promote this bigotry continued to exist despite what I thought was major progress we had in the last maybe 25 years of my lifetime.
 
data

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
CannonFodder52 said:
Update: some good news

-Geel, owner of some major trading sites and the financial backer of a lot of tournaments has come out and said he won't be involved in events that allow these players to participate.

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-ChampGG who own PugChamp, apparently a very relevant place for TF2 players to play pick up games, has also come out with a statement. Link

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-Same with TF2League. Link

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Holy shit yes. These are the responses you want to see.

I'm very happy that you've brought this up. The more this gets exposed, the more we can cleanse the gaming community of unwarranted hate. It'll still be there but the support for speaking out from here on out will only grow
 
CommodoreKong

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,707
I've been following this since it came to light and it's really too bad, the comp TF2 community isn't very big and it's sad to see them treating someone like this. Sadly I think this sort of thing is probably all too common in esports/comp communities and one of the reasons you don't see too many women participating. It's also too bad Valve probably won't some hot since they're still not really involved in the comp community yet.

Sad thing is usually random players in Valve servers are pretty cool. Sure you run into random assholes but I've been in several games in the past few months with women on the voice chat and no one was abusive towards them.
 
Hackworth

Hackworth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
391
Shitheads should be banned. If people can't be respectful for moral reasons, they can keep their shit quiet for fear of punishment.
 

Deleted member 24118

User requested account closure
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Oct 29, 2017
4,920
The TF2 comp community really cratered when ESEA stopped holding LANs. Pretty much all of the old guard left at that point and were replaced with douchebags who can barely function with other people.
 
Instro

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,008
Not surprising, I feel like this kind of stuff has flown under the radar in certain PC gaming communities for years without ever really getting the attention that other aspects of gaming have.
 

Deleted member 42221

User requested account closure
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2,749
Team Fortress 2 had... a toxic casual community from my experiences. There were servers with lynched Demomen everywhere. A lot of swastika-laden steam groups.

But holy shit the level of bullshit in competitive is just disgusting. I straight up am nauseous reading some of that shit.

Valve has to respond at some point. They're losing a lot of talented people from their community over this - Phi was an incredible map maker.
 
Arttemis

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,211
The update is good to hear, but I seriously can't believe this shit wasn't addressed FROM THE BEGINNING.

I truly think Microsoft, Sony, Steam, and any other company making money hosting games needs to implement strict reporting and punishment procedures for every player who uses hate speech. Any 'pro' player should be held to even higher standards.
 
TheYanger

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,152
I didn't even know comp TF2 was a thing anymore but jesus fucking christ at some of those examples. It's hard not to feel my hands curling into fists just typing this shit frankly.
 
Funny Valentine

Funny Valentine

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
2,904
Cordelia Blimey said:
Valve has to respond at some point. They're losing a lot of talented people from their community over this - Phi was an incredible map maker.
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Valve will not respond unless this controversy affects their bottom line or someone makes it impossible for them to ignore. It took them literally years to deal with hate groups on Steam and it was mostly due to multiple news articles exposing them.
 

Deleted member 42221

User requested account closure
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2,749
Funny Valentine said:
Valve will not respond unless this controversy affects their bottom line or someone makes it impossible for them to ignore. It took them literally years to deal with hate groups on Steam and it was mostly due to multiple news articles exposing them.
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You're probably right, and that sucks. If Valve is going to rely on their communities to make content for their games, at least make sure those communities aren't hives of constant harassment.

But they really do give no fucks. Hell, there are rumours of shitty treatment happening at Valve - a former employee had a failed lawsuit over repeated transphobic workplace harassment.
 
danmaku

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,232
This is disgusting, but it's nice to see the community is reacting and calling them out (granted, it's the same community that created the problem, but still there's good people in it).
 
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CannonFodder52

CannonFodder52

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
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In relation to the TF2 events that were going on yesterday, Juniper wrote a Medium post about their experiences in the TF2 workshop community dealing with transphobia and sexism. I'd recommend giving it a read.
https://medium.com/@fuzzymellows/toxic-tangles-within-the-tf2-workshop-community-57076fa1b812
https://twitter.com/fuzzymellows/status/1026931792689938434


"The people in charge of that project made me hate myself, made me second guess my works with my art ever since then, and made me feel terrible for who I was and and who I wanted to be. Transphobic, sexist, and apathetic people such as these have no place to treat humans that they are "in charge of" like this. Not now, not ever."
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"These people- and I'm talking about a very specific handful of people- have doxxed, stalked, and harassed many innocents who only want to create and have fun in this space to terrifyingly uncomfortable degrees."
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"...They continue to receive indirect validation in the form of accepted TF2 items in-game, receiving big Valve paychecks for the next year at the very least, since these last handfuls of updates have included many items created by them."
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"The casual sexism going towards veterans in this community has also been very sickening. So many people have refused to listen to veteran women of this community when it comes to creative advice, even when male peers have said the exact same words. They always sided with the men, it hurts my head so much."
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"This community needs help. It needs intervention. All of the hatred, harassment and abuse has been so tiring, I've not returned to the game in months. I've left certain community circles in fear of being torn down again. I love this game with all of my heart, and hope there is that power for change.

With all the bad, does come good, and I do want to mention that major circles within the TF2 community have been doing all that they can to keep these malicious groups out from the main frame. There still needs a helping hand, though, and we need all the help we can get.

I want to urge all of you who may be able to help, to fear not of what comes, especially if that means helping out a friend in a dire situation.

What can we all do, to make the bad stop?"

Also, ETF2L posted an official statement on their site.
 
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Mobyduck

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Thanks for the update. I see a lot of support for them on twitter. Heart-wrenching to hear what Juniper went through. I've had a friend go through similar stuff and it hurts to see people being so apathetic. Bringing this to light might help others in a similar situation on their community, so I'm glad this is getting some attention.
 
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