• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,070
As that happened, you've seen the rich get richer, and you've perhaps noticed that the government's main response to this has been to keep cutting their taxes (in fairness, President Barack Obama did raise the highest rate in 2013 to 39.6 percent from 35 percent, although for single filers, that rate didn't kick in until earned income went above $400,000).

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial's Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

You've watched corporations hoard profits, buy back their stock and not reinvest in their workers the way they once did as they move jobs to Central America and Bangladesh. If you read a lot, you know that stock buybacks were permitted under the Securities and Exchange Commission's Rule 10b-18, which dates to the Reagan era, and that since it's just an S.E.C. rule, it can be changed without having to pass legislation, but no one in either of the Democratic administrations since then bothered.

I could go on like this for 20 paragraphs. Many more, in fact. But you get the idea. Back in the days when our economy just grew and grew, we had a government and a capitalist class that invested in our people and their future — in the Interstate highways, the community colleges, the scientific research, the generous federal grants for transportation and regional development.

And, funny thing, during all this time, socialism didn't have much appeal. Back in the 1910s and '20s, during an era of intense labor strife and before the existence of the welfare state, there were a couple of Socialist Party members in the House of Representatives — Victor Berger of Wisconsin and Meyer London of New York — as well as hundreds of Socialist mayors and state legislators and local officials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/05/...ight-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

While concern trolls like Comey think moving leftward will hurt Democrats. They are missing the hidden dissatisfaction with the middle classes. Corporations are recording record profits, but that's not trickling down.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
The US needs to move as far left as possible in the next few years or things are just going to get much, much worse.

Our "center" is still very much right compared to the rest of the world, and it doesn't need to be accommodated.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,070
The issue is that corporation used to re-invest in the country. Now they hoard. That's hurting us a lot.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
The economy is supposed to be growing at a rapid pace but wages haven't been rising. Apparently employers would gives you tons more perks than actually raise wages. Gee I wonder why.

Economists are 'stumped' on why this is, apparently.
 

4859

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,046
In the weak and the wounded
Easy
"Got mine fuck you"

The issue is that corporation used to re-invest in the country. Now they hoard. That's hurting us a lot.

Not until Teddy Roosevelt, and those that immediately followed literally beat the shit out of them.

Before that, they were the robber barons, and that's exactly what we are back to.

You can thank boomers for starting the process of removing our protections from this shit in the 80's with Reagan.
 

CastorKrieg

Banned
Jul 5, 2018
272
Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial's Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

Exactly the same as for blue-collar workers being the backbone of Republicans: 'I better vote for less taxation and regulation so I can profit from it in the future when I will become a millionaire like these capitalist guys!'
 

Johnny Blaze

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,163
DE
They hoard because when shit hits the fan, let's say with climate change or automation, the poor, lower and middle classes will be cut off from their walled communities like all the asylum seekers until they starve to death or whatever fate awaits us normal people.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Money is power so it makes sense to hoard it. But that's capitalism for you.
Capitalism used to actually be more like socialism in that you use capital to make money and then use that money to improve your country. Only when people started min-maxing the stock market did it become the way it is today.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
They're thinking about how to control the population to avoid a real revolution while simultaneously researching escape plans in case things go belly-up.

These people will be brains in glass jars competing in a simulated stock market while the rest of the world is a flooded nuclear wasteland, and they'll still feel they did nothing wrong.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Capitalism used to actually be more like socialism in that you use capital to make money and then use that money to improve your country. Only when people started min-maxing the stock market did it become the way it is today.
Capitalism used to be like capitalism. The things we see today are the same things we saw a hundred years ago.

Capitalism was never like socialism.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Capitalism used to be like capitalism. The things we see today are the same things we saw a hundred years ago.

Capitalism was never like socialism.
American capitalism was. American corporations used to see themselves as stewards of the country reinvesting in thier own workers and the community. It's why you saw them build towns, etc like Ford used to do. Now it's all about the $$ and shareholders.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
The issue is that corporation used to re-invest in the country. Now they hoard. That's hurting us a lot.

BJJrdyT.jpg
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
Capitalism without strong regulation will inevitably lead to oligarchy.

There's no accountability. HSBC literally, literally funded drug lords who are enemies of the state, and not a single employee was arrested. The corporation got like, a billion dollar fine (which it recouped in a week), and that was the end of it.

There's no incentive to not do wrong, hoard power, and break the "fuck you got mine" attitude.
 

Shake Appeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
Classic NYT liberalism, asking individuals to search their conscience rather than recognizing the systemic forces behind grossly inequitable wealth accumulation.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
We really should just take 75% of all wealth above $1 million and use it for universal social services. Healthcare, UBI, infrastructure, etc. Make it transparent as fuck too so everyone can see exactly where it goes and where every single dollar is spent to clamp down on corruption .
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,352
Kitchener, ON
We really should just take 75% of all wealth above $1 million and use it for universal social services. Healthcare, UBI, infrastructure, etc. Make it transparent as fuck too so everyone can see exactly where it goes and where every single dollar is spent to clamp down on corruption .
As someone who comes from a wealthy family, I believe we need to go as left as possible.
What political party do you guys intend to vote for to facilitate this direction? Because the Democrats sure as fuck won't be on board for it.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,082
Arkansas, USA
I ask myself this question all the time. The rich are in danger of losing everything because they have forgotten the source of their wealth. If they keep pushing for more wealth at the expense of the population the US will eventually collapse.
 

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
What are they thinking? Short term. Gotta post the best results for this quarter, gotta make as much money as possible to keep up with the Joneses, gotta have infinite growth, etc.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,070
Classic NYT liberalism, asking individuals to search their conscience rather than recognizing the systemic forces behind grossly inequitable wealth accumulation.
Well they're asking Capitalists why Socialism is becoming appealing of late. That's the crux of the article. Capitalism was much better received in previous generations when corporations reinvested their profits back into the country. That rarely happens today since the shareholder became king.

Funny think, maximizing shareholder value was never a thing before. It slowly became a thing, a metric for CEOs. CEOs then got their incentivize to maximize shareholder value and here we are. Then you had Business Schools teach it and here we are.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I ask myself this question all the time. The rich are in danger of losing everything because they have forgotten the source of their wealth. If they keep pushing for more wealth at the expense of the population the US will eventually collapse.
That is why behind the scenes a group of rich are currently thinking more and more about exit strategies. As in, walling themselves of from the rest of the world. There was an interesting article about this a couple of weeks ago.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
What political party do you guys intend to vote for to facilitate this direction? Because the Democrats sure as fuck won't be on board for it.
And? I don't see how holding these ideals and continuing to vote Democrat is in any way at odds. You have to be pragmatic with your vote. Sure Dems are influenced by wealth too, but they are far far far far far far far far far far far far better than the alternative. As we've seen with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez once we establish the moderate left as the norm we can push in farther left candidates.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
American capitalism was. American corporations used to see themselves as stewards of the country reinvesting in thier own workers and the community. It's why you saw them build towns, etc like Ford used to do. Now it's all about the $$ and shareholders.
American capitalism was never like socialism. Socialism is the workers seizing the means of production.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,283
They used to bribe people with projects that they don't feel like doing anymore. It was kind of inevitable in the sense that the situation was "rich people currently believe they should spread their money around" and also "time is functionally infinite." Eventually the probability that the former situation held true approaches zero. It's why you need laws.

And Titik's post is great too. The stock market should be reformed along with taxation. I loved Hillary's campaign idea to just punish short-term trading in favor of longer investments. Even with appropriate taxation on rich people, the economy can't just be left on the knife's edge that is day trading.
 

HyGogg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Capitalism has always been a delicate balance of socialism and free markets that fostered competition for capital. Unchecked free-markets without socialist systems to balance the powers of the wealthy and elevate the lower class with opportunity are just a slow death march to feudalism.

I've said it before, but progressives would do well to recalim the word capitalism for their own, and frame another "New Deal" shift of the sort the Sanders/Warren wing of the party wants as a "return" to the sensible economic policy of the past. It's the kind of messaging that resonates with conservative-thinkers even though it's the same democratic socialist policies the left has wanted all along.
 

Host Samurai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,167
What political party do you guys intend to vote for to facilitate this direction? Because the Democrats sure as fuck won't be on board for it.

Dems, but my brothers and I are more fans of the Bernie, Warren and Harris wing of the party.

I've always believed that if more people had more extra income by saving on healthcare, food, education etc...that they would be spending more money that goes into the economy.
 

CrankyKong

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76
There seems to be a big difference between USPoliERA and regular ERA when I comes to politics.
This kind of discussion is not popular in the OT
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
What political party do you guys intend to vote for to facilitate this direction? Because the Democrats sure as fuck won't be on board for it.

You have to vote for Dems.

You can't just hop into crazy left (or crazy right) in one election. That's now how things work. If the Dems win handily for a while then the Republicans are forced to shift leftward. Then the Democrats shift leftward to differentiate themselves again. That's how politics work. The opposite of that happened before. Republicans won so much that the Dems were forced to shift rightward to capture votes and stay relevant.

With first past the post you have to vote for the best option, not hold out for your ideal. That can come after years of work.

In addition, voting democrat secures more leftward supreme court so that when things eventually get where you actually want them it's not all torn down one by one.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,352
Kitchener, ON
Not saying you shouldn't vote for Dems at every opportunity. Just make sure you get the right Dem in power initially and hold them to the fire to bolster a consistent leftward trend spanning multiple administrations while also curtailing the built-in advantages of the right from gerrymandering to corporations/shareholders above all else to social media engineering that have led to the current political landscape taking shape.

Don't put another "reach across the aisle" leader in place that embraces the profit-taking of the status quo while leaving the advantages of the Republicans unchecked, unchallenged and further exposed to foreign intervention without penalty or this leftward movement will remain the idealistic fantasy it presently seems to be... where right-wing governments and cronyism shape policy no matter how many times they get outvoted on Election Day.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
I think the wealthy in America have pushed too hard for more wealth. And now facing a generation that doesn't conflate socialism with the endless propaganda of the Cold War, they have a growing problem on their hands. The Democrats need to address this. Or they risk losing a lot of us, particularly younger voters, who don't feel like they have a voice in American politics today, with two parties that exist only as mouthpieces of rich interests.

And so it is here. As I noted recently in The Daily Beast, the kind of capitalism that has been practiced in this country over the last few decades has made socialism look far more appealing, especially to young people.

No lies detected.
 

Neo C.

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,001
Everyone should read "Homo Deus" by Yuval Harari. The rich can get away with not pleasing the rest because they don't need them as much as before.
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
There's such a staggering amount of wealth at the top now that I don't think there's going to be a, erm... peaceful... way to change it. And that's scary.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Not saying you shouldn't vote for Dems at every opportunity. Just make sure you get the right Dem in power initially and hold them to the fire to bolster a consistent leftward trend spanning multiple administrations while also curtailing the built-in advantages of the right from gerrymandering to corporations/shareholders above all else to social media engineering that have led to the current political landscape taking shape.

Don't put another "reach across the aisle" leader in place that embraces the profit-taking of the status quo while leaving the advantages of the Republicans unchecked, unchallenged and further exposed to foreign intervention without penalty or this leftward movement will remain the idealistic fantasy it presently seems to be... where right-wing governments and cronyism shape policy no matter how many times they get outvoted on Election Day.

It's actually not built in. The right made efforts at the lower level (state assembly and legislatures) to influence gerrymandering, which is done at the state level. Democrats should follow that same playbook. Play offense now and be defensive in future attempts at doing so. Basically do not cede an inch in any local races right down to schoolboard members. At all.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
They hoard because when shit hits the fan, let's say with climate change or automation, the poor, lower and middle classes will be cut off from their walled communities like all the asylum seekers until they starve to death or whatever fate awaits us normal people.

Our only solace is they have miscalculated the time by 50-150 years. They will be destroyed, wiped out, and a single completely different generation & 'elite' will seize their old position before shit hits the fan.
 

Kneecap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
304
American capitalism was. American corporations used to see themselves as stewards of the country reinvesting in thier own workers and the community. It's why you saw them build towns, etc like Ford used to do. Now it's all about the $$ and shareholders.

Ford built those towns to maximize profits. The view of history you present is both a fabrication and fairy tale. Yikes.
 

Rygar 8Bit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,871
Site-15
They hoard because when shit hits the fan, let's say with climate change or automation, the poor, lower and middle classes will be cut off from their walled communities like all the asylum seekers until they starve to death or whatever fate awaits us normal people.

Things hit the fan that bad money wouldn't mean anything anymore, law wouldn't mean anything anymore. They would have no where to hide. Would be Mad Max and Fallout.