I’m a WNBA player. Men won’t stop challenging me to play one-on-one (WaPo)

I understand how she feels. Every random Joe always challenges me to "Fox only, no items, final destination" when they find out that I'm a professional Melee player

joking aside, do these people really think they can beat someone who plays basketball as a career

Powdered Egg said:

Thanks for the insight. Lol damn, scoring on a pro at 14? Why'd you quit?

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When I look back a few reasons,

1. Around highschool was when it started to get more serious.

You really needed to have a strong support system of family or friends who would take you to all the camps, travel with you to tournaments,etc. Sadly my mom died when I was 12, so my dad was a single parent of two, working two full time jobs to keep our lifestyle unchanged (and I assume keep from thinking about losing my mom). So I just didn't have that support.

2. There was far more demand on your free time to play in highschool.

My freshman year, the coach for the senior level girls team saw me (usually freshman and sophomores played on the JV teams, while upperclass men played on the more serious team) , she wanted me to practice with her team and wanted me to play a year ahead on her team. She was pretty intense.

Turns out she was related to Bobby Knight. Don't remember how but obviously she took coaching very seriously and was coaching no different than a serious male team would be coached. (which was pretty rare back then except super exclusive schools). Either way practices were before, and after school, you had to travel to games, all on top of normal school stuff.

Since previous teams I had played on had never been that structured, it just felt not fun to me.
I was good but realized for me it was just fun. Plus I had other interests around that time , mostly pivoted toward tech and engineering.

3.Injuries.

Holy shit, since many girls were not playing sports as early as boys and had developed to be bigger and taller faster than boys, many did not know their strength and were awkward. By my sophomore year I already had ankle, and knee injuries. It was often a much more physical game playing with girls compared to guys who had been playing for much longer. All my injuries were from playing with girls not guys.


4, Discpline

I was, and still am to some extent a rebel. I am also highly competitive.
I still remember in a grade school game, waving my coach to shut up while he was yelling something from the sideline. He then proceeded to pull me out. Really pissed me off. Of course once we started losing he put me back in lol. I was also the player to stare down refs. I really relished playing the heel (yup also an old school wrestling fan) , I was good so would get booed in away games anytime I scored. Opposing coaches would always come up to me after games to note something. With my home situation, I just don't think anyone could "coach" me at that time without extensive effort.


Regrets?

Yup. I wish I would have had the structure or adults in my life at that time to keep me playing at least thru college. As you get thru highschool, many are "good" so the difference is the people who have the structure around them to develop their natural talent and abilities to compete on that next level both physically and mentally. Would have at least not had student loans lol.

Vonnegut said:

Also American football

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No. Kickers.

Sanjuro said:

No. Kickers.

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Because a female as a Kicker is really going to change the narrative.

Forsaken82 said:

Because a female as a Kicker is really going to change the narrative.

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Yeah. Fuck, women!

Forsaken82 said:

Because a female as a Kicker is really going to change the narrative.

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Uh, of course it would. That would be huge.

I'm more surprised that according to her "most" men challenge her to a 1 v 1. I've interacted with enough female athletes in college and never has my first impulse been to tell them that I could beat them in their respective sport (which I most definitely could not regardless of any physical advantage).

I don't blame her at all for getting annoyed after dealing with all that.

That mod edit makes me so sad, Era has a big sexism problem or at least its a lot more real than some want to admit

But the same story played out each time. It went a lot like the scene in the film "Love and Basketball" when Quincy meets Monica, tells her "Girls can't play no ball" and proceeds to play her two-on-two with his friends. As he's about to lose, he pushes her, and she falls into a sprinkler, cutting her face. Similarly, when the men I played realized they'd underestimated me, the hacking would start. They would elbow, undercut and even throw me into the pads under the basket — passing out real bruises to match their bruised egos. There was no way they were letting this woman beat them in front of their friends. I took the hits, made my shots, and walked away battered but victorious.

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this is why our coach forbid us from off-the-record matches with randos of any sort - because this what those randos do when they realize that they are inevitably going to lose, and i imagine that it becomes much worse when misogyny is brought into it as well

Rumblebones said:

The top WNBA teams would lose to a good percentage of high school boys teams.

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Boiled Goose said:

I think you are not quite right on rankings. A good male high school team might still beat the top wnba teams.

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My god some of the comments in this thread.

"I don't mean to diminish the achievements of women basketball players, but there are teenage boys who could beat any of them."

Agar25 said:

That mod edit makes me so sad, Era has a big sexism problem or at least its a lot more real than some want to admit

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Try not to look at it as "Era's sexism problem" more than "Everywhere's sexism problem." Afterall, Devereaux isn't on ResetEra, and this thread is only reflective of a very real issue she wrote about. It can be disheartening, but moderation is the point, and I encourage everyone to report.

Saucycarpdog said:

My god some of the comments in this thread.

"I don't mean to diminish the achievements of women basketball players, but there are teenage boys who could beat any of them."

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Get out of your feelings.

I'm not undermining the athleticism and skill of WNBA players.

I'm just pointing out why average joes would be dumb enough to challenge them.

I think I remember seeing her post this through a twitter thread like a month or two ago. Didn't know it'd become an article.

Rumblebones said:

Get out of your feelings.

I'm not undermining the athleticism and skill of WNBA players.

I'm just pointing out why average joes would be dumb enough to challenge them.

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Nah. You might want to respect other peoples feelings though.

Huh, this thread has been pretty informative for me about basketball. Didn't know the whole...I guess 'culture' worked like that? Didn't really grow up with the sport at all, so this is interesting. It's odd for me because like, the same question in a different sport would be taken completely differently. Like from what I understand in basketball the underlying context is "heh I bet I can take you." But in a sport like, say, fencing, if you ever had a chance to fence against Vezzali you'd be like holy shit yes please let's fence. You wouldn't expect to win, but it's hard to be a sportsman and not think "I wonder how my skills measure up to this legend." It's part using them as a measuring stick and part it being a learning process.

Like I was confused when I started reading the thread because to me an athlete wanting to play against a pro seemed like the most normal thing in the world to me. There's nothing more fun than throwing the stuff you honed through your years of training at the pros you admire so much and seeing what comes out of it. One of my fondest memories was when I got to fence an Olympian at a tournament. I got my ass kicked, but it was also amazing when I realized some of my shit worked even against the top level. Plus nothing beats feeling the moves of your idols. Like, it's one thing to see Heinzer blitzing through everyone, it's another to feel him disappear from your line of sight and flick your back as he fleches to the other side. It's a feeling of "holy shit I'm fighting a literal god" that's amazing.

Interesting to see that people overestimate their skills in basketball like this. I wonder if it's because it's a more casual sport that you can just pick up and play without investing too much into it so people overestimate how much of it is talent and how much is training/effort? Plus the ability to compete(and win) against similarly casual people might encourage some people to tie their self-worth to a sport they aren't even professionally involved in?

Also yeah more than fair of the article writer not to play random people to prove herself, her contract literally doesn't allow for it and it's a sport where sore losers can easily harm her. I feel like most athletes in basketball wouldn't play randos right? Like, it feels like a nothing to gain and a lot to lose in case of a dumb injury.

Saucycarpdog said:

Nah. You might want to respect other peoples feelings though.

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You getting tight over common knowledge isn't worth respecting.

Look at all this sexism.

Rumblebones said:

You getting tight over common knowledge isn't worth respecting.

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I was talking about respecting the feelings of the author, which you clearly don't care for since your first thought was to undermine her points, but ok.

Edit: I realize this probably counts as derailing the thread with the topic that the mods have banned. So I'll drop it.

I would never challenge a professional athlete one on one these men are crazy

I think you could sort of say that for male athletes too though. People always want to try to take on the best in any sport. I'd take it as a compliment. It would just be fun to say you tried.

Man, that shit pisses me off when I'm playing Pokemon.

No mother fuckers I don't want to battle, I want to cross the damn street.

But this shit Hapening in real life?

AnotherDayAnotherDollar said:

Humm no. Women would also not be able to compete in hockey, baseball, or football. That's not saying they are inferior or a lesser athlete.

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So what is your reason then?

The WNBA has only been going for 20 years. Give it a couple of hundred more with woman not facing barriers and having a realistic path to being pro athletes and I think you will find them more than capable.

.. Welcome to being a professional player, people challenge them all the time. I know Jeremy Lin has people who think they can take him one on one all the time cus he is Asian and hasn't lived up to the Linsanity craze and is only a pretty average NBA PG when not injured.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2018/5/22/17381100/for-jeremy-lin-disrespect-is-the-constant

in an interview with Mike Vokunov of The Athletic, Jeremy Lin says it never ceases to amaze him how many street ballers think they beat him ... and tell him so!

But Lin, the ultimate competitor, has developed a ready-made answer. Sure, he'll tell the guy, for $1,000.

"Quick $1,000 in my bank account," he says. "It happens a lot. People just don't get — these are the same people that couldn't make it on their high school teams, couldn't make it to college. It's like you're truly the best of the best of the best.

"There's, whatever, 6-plus billion people and (in the NBA) 450 players and people criticize a lot and even now we watch the playoffs and we're going to criticize so-and-so."

Lin tells Vorkunov he thinks he knows why ... and it's not because he's the only guy in the league with an economics degree from Harvard.

"I've always wondered if I was a different race or I was a different ethnicity, would it happen that often?" he said.

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This also reminds me of the Brian Scalabrine challenge a few years. Scalabrine was just some minor NBA role player and mostly bench warmer and some idiots on social media started believing they could beat him.. so he did a public challenge and took on some randos including one former Syracuse college player and destroyed them all. He went 44-6 overall.

https://sports.yahoo.com/brian-scal...n-one-one-challenge-231654445--nba.html?y20=1

Over 11 NBA seasons, journeyman forward Brian Scalabrine cultivated an image of a regular guy who just happened to play basketball. Eventually, many fans came to believe that Scalabrine was an Average Joe, not an elite athlete (as all NBA players are), and figured that he probably wasn't that great at the profession that earned him tens of millions of dollars. This summer, Scalabrine said that he resented this suggestion (even if he also heartily embraced the regular guy image), and in December he challenged any Boston-area amateur basketball players to games of one-on-one.

On Monday, Scalabrine faced four hand-picked competitors. He destroyed them all. From CBS Boston (via TBJ):

Scalabrine, who retired over the summer after a very serviceable 11-year NBA career, took on four of Boston's best ballers in 98.5 The Sports Hub's 1-on-1 "Scallenge," put on by morning hosts Toucher & Rich.

Listeners sent in their try-out videos, showing off their skills and talking some trash towards Scal, but it turns out even Boston's best was no match for Scalabrine. [...]

Scalabrine — who spent the last few seasons of his career seen as the "human victory cigar" — easily defeated all four of his opponents, throwing down monstrous jams and sinking smooth jumpers as he beat them all by a combined score of 44-6.

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That link also features a 30-minute video of the action, and it becomes very clear very quickly that Scalabrine is on another level from these athletes. Even against decent competition — the first challenger, Matt Tomaszewski, was on Syracuse's roster just last season — Scalabrine owned everyone. The second and third games were both shutouts, and the six points scored included one two-pointer. In four games, Scalabrine conceded just five baskets.

his full-scale domination isn't terribly surprising, because it really is amazingly difficult to play in the NBA for 11 seasons. Scalabrine managed to do so in part because he found a role as a good teammate, which made him more valuable than his talent may have suggested, but even then he was in competition with an exceedingly small group of potential employees. The idea that any random weekend warrior could challenge him is ridiculous.

We are only left to wonder why this challenge was necessary in the first place. For that, Scalabrine has to look at himself. While no fan should ever feel like he's on the same athletic plane as a professional athlete, the fact of the matter is that some pros embrace that image because it provides them new opportunities. Without it, Scalabrine probably never would have gotten his current job as an analyst for CSN New England. He deserves more respect than he's been given, but there are also identifiable reasons for why he doesn't always get it.

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I believe pro athletes in general get challenged all the time by idiots. And yeah those idiots tend to almost always be men. It gets annoying for all athletes men and women alike.

The machismo of some men knows no bounds. Seriously, the woman is a professional athlete, you'll probably get smoked anyways. I think being macho is a hilariously outdated concept though, so maybe I'm a little biased.

Royalan said:

Going to repeat this:

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I feel like the appropriate course of action following this post is to not read the article and talk about how Sun Yue will be better than the GOAT WNBA player for biological reasons.

It's just an undeniable fact that in a vast majority of sports when speaking about the best male vs the best female athlete, the male would most likely win most of the time.

That, however, doesn't give the right for any men to downplay the accomplishment of any female sportsperson, especially those who excelled at their field, especially if those men are just your average Joe who do not have the experience and knowledge on how it feels like to compete at the highest level.

Isn't this an issue with NBA players too in that scrubs think they're better than washed up or bench players and challenge those people to 1 vs 1?

I remember some NBA player had to do an open challenge where anybody could 1 vs 1 him and he went against elite college players and smoked them all. I can't remember or find the video/article though.

Laughing Banana said:

It's just an undeniable fact that in a vast majority of sports when speaking about the best male vs the best female athlete, the male would most likely win most of the time.

That, however, doesn't give the right for any men to downplay the accomplishment of any female sportsperson, especially those who excelled at their field, especially if those men are just your average Joe who do not have the experience and knowledge on how it feels like to compete at the highest level.

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But realize you probably could have kept that entire first line.

Because a huge problem with threads/discussions about female athletes is that you get a lot of men who just feel the need to point that out, over and over and over and over and over again, when nobody's talking about that. Because it's not the point. It's so irrelevant that it often comes off as hostile regardless of intention.

We can talk about female sports and athletes without being reminded, ad nauseam, about how men are stronger/faster/whatever. At least, we should be able to.

Deleted to prevent further detailing.

The Brian scalabrini story is fascinating

Duxxy3 said:

Not really. The only other sports that shows the physical differences between men and women more than the NFL is the NBA. NBA players are basically superhuman. And there aren't many of them either. 14 players on a team, 30 teams. 420 people out of 7.6 billion are capable of being in the NBA.

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421, nate robinson should be in it if it weren't for blacklists

https://youtu.be/McOPVkeDlJ8

Wish the WNBA existed when Cheryl was coming up...

Interestingly enough Cheryl Miller did get drafted into playing in the USBL..

Idiots like Bill Simmons needs to read this.

Royalan said:

Try not to look at it as "Era's sexism problem" more than "Everywhere's sexism problem." Afterall, Devereaux isn't on ResetEra, and this thread is only reflective of a very real issue she wrote about. It can be disheartening, but moderation is the point, and I encourage everyone to report.

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Can I ask for a favour as I respect you a lot. Can you please not use the same wording as the people over in gaming side when it's pointed out that the gaming community has a bigotry (racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, take your pick) problem?

People are very much aware the issue goes beyond Era/Gaming but that doesn't mean it's not a an Era/gaming issue.

Hoesntly, your post comes off as incredibly dismissive here as those do there.

Saucycarpdog said:

I was talking about respecting the feelings of the author, which you clearly don't care for since your first thought was to undermine her points, but ok.

Edit: I realize this probably counts as derailing the thread with the topic that the mods have banned. So I'll drop it.

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No, it wasn't.

My first thought was to point out why men think they can beat or even have the right to challenge professional hoopers.

Quit projecting.

This is not based in the ceiling of female athletics. It's clearly sexism and a sense of superiority inherent of gender.

Yes, some male athletes likely experience something sinilar, ie. Brian Scalabrini, but that is due to the lack of respect for the talent and athleticism required to be in the NBA, even as a 12th man or even 15th man. Reading Peters' quotes, it's very clear that what happens to her is something else entirely.

Andrew Korenchkin said:

Idiots like Bill Simmons needs to read this.

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Why, what did he say?

Damn you know maybe if she had said that this is why she's involuntarily celibate, dudes here would be able better relate and thus would show her more empathy instead of lining up to let us all know that men are better than women at sports.

What I've realized is that many men seem to be incapable/uninterested in empathizing with women who experience sexism but are much more capable/willing to emphasize with and rationalize and explain the reasons why men are sexist towards women

Because they can't relate to being targeted but they can relate to the thought process behind those are are doing the targeting.

Yasuke said:

Badass.

Who the fuck sees a 6'2" Woman (short guys, is that really something you'd see and assume "basketball player"?) and thinks "omg, I must challenge this giant to play basketball to prove myself"? Fucking wastemen.



This nigga really thought he could dust Mike Vick lmfaaaaaooooooo



Hate to bring it up, but how would they compete in football?

Hell, it ain't a major sport, but there's a differential in track for a reason too.

I could maybe see baseball and soccer though.

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In the NFL the more likely positions to get a woman playing in if the NFL wasn't ran by some terrible people
QB, K, P, FS, CB, KR/PR, receiving TE

Baseball is a joke on not having anyone other than no one really let's women grow up pitching overhand for long enough to be a "realistic" prospect

Soccer women are already better than a good chunk because they don't resort to fucking flopping

Pandaman said:

Baseball, maybe. They'd be disadvantaged at running but pitch speeds between male/female players are afaik the same.

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Sorry what!? Isn't the fast pitch by a woman around 88mph. While that's certainly amazing, you don't make the majors with those speeds unless you have command like Greg Maddux

Also size ain't everything or else these 6'3 nikkas wouldn't have had careers
Give a woman playing since they were 7 and being 6'3~ you could have a NBA player at least coming off the bench like a 2019 Cavs player

Men are such fucking idiots.

excelsiorlef said:

Can I ask for a favour as I respect you a lot. Can you please not use the same wording as the people over in gaming side when it's pointed out that the gaming community has a bigotry (racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, take your pick) problem?

People are very much aware the issue goes beyond Era/Gaming but that doesn't mean it's not a an Era/gaming issue.

Hoesntly, your post comes off as incredibly dismissive here as those do there.

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Absolutely.

And the intention of my post wasn't to be dismissive. Regret that it was taken that way. There is a sexism issue that takes a particular form on Era. My point was that because this is an issue with bigger roots (as Devereaux points out), I don't view it as a burden to do my job and address that issue as a mod whenever I see it, or whenever it's brought to my attention.

I feel like the biggest issue holding women in sports back is the development as young, aka they lack girl leagues. Or even a better thought, just accept girls into boys leagues. A friend played hockey with me and she was better than the vast majority of the guys. She was also better than almost all the girls playing hockey in High School before she even hit it. She had those 8-10 years of being able to play prior, where many girls playing hockey are extremely limited to when and where.

It was always a great sight seeing someone from the other team make some off hand remarks then get laid out by her. I feel like a lot of guys would learn more respect for women if this was done as kids rather than limiting their options and pushing them into their own closed off leagues as soon as possible.

Boiled Goose said:

I honestly don't know how to respond to this.
Not because I disagree, but because I honestly don't know what the correct thing to do is.

Should I have not responded to the post I originally responded to, even though I don't think it's (currently) accurate?

I think the issues clearly brought up in the OP are important and have merit. And importantly is something that we should address and fix as a society.

But I don't think claims that are consider inaccurate are helpful. They are probably counterproductive.

I genuinely want to hear your thoughts here.

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I struggled similarly trying to respond to you because it's not like it's incorrect, exactly. It's just...tactless? A kind of passive, polite assholery one stepped removed from the guys challenging Peters (and therefore 'acceptable'). Like, you guys who agree that those challenging her are being jerks for doing it would never do it, but not entirely because it's a jerk move -- it's because you don't see the point as even high schoolers can beat professional women. There's no challenge there for men, nothing to be gained, no threat, etc. You don't feel insecure like these other dudes because it's not logical to you. And I say this because you all seem to agree that it's trash behavior yet still feel the need to dissect and qualify exactly how inferior women are to men in sports. And it's generally politely, clinically done because to you guys you're just discussing facts here.

So why is it a problem? It's just facts, right? That's why I struggled too. I don't want to make an argument based on feels. I'm not offended. I'm just bloody annoyed. Especially because (and it's not just you) those kinds of statements are followed up with stuff like "That's not to take anything away from the accomplishment of female athletes," as if that makes it better somehow. You've just said that kids can beat even the best of us, but hey, good effort! See? Kinda shitty, right?

So I guess the problem is: do you think it helps the issue that Peters is experiencing, the point of this thread ostensibly, by saying that professional women not only can't compete with top level men's teams, but that they can even be beaten by boys? Do you think women are unaware of our general physical limitations? That we need to be reminded constantly of that fact in threads like this? If this were a thread on women's progress/future in sports I wouldn't have a problem at all. But it's not one of those, and we're not burying our heads in the sand about the physical thing. So, why do guys always feel the need to bring it up? It's not for our benefit, I promise.

H.Protagonist said:

I struggled similarly trying to respond to you because it's not like it's incorrect, exactly. It's just...tactless? A kind of passive, polite assholery one stepped removed from the guys challenging Peters (and therefore 'acceptable'). Like, you guys who agree that those challenging her are being jerks for doing it would never do it, but not entirely because it's a jerk move -- it's because you don't see the point as even high schoolers can beat professional women. There's no challenge there for men, nothing to be gained, no threat, etc. You don't feel insecure like these other dudes because it's not logical to you. And I say this because you all seem to agree that it's trash behavior yet still feel the need to dissect and qualify exactly how inferior women are to men in sports. And it's generally politely, clinically done because to you guys you're just discussing facts here.

So why is it a problem? It's just facts, right? That's why I struggled too. I don't want to make an argument based on feels. I'm not offended. I'm just bloody annoyed. Especially because (and it's not just you) those kinds of statements are followed up with stuff like "That's not to take anything away from the accomplishment of female athletes," as if that makes it better somehow. You've just said that kids can beat even the best of us, but hey, good effort! See? Kinda shitty, right?

So I guess the problem is: do you think it helps the issue that Peters is experiencing, the point of this thread ostensibly, by saying that professional women not only can't compete with top level men's teams, but that they can even be beaten by boys? Do you think women are unaware of our general physical limitations? That we need to be reminded constantly of that fact in threads like this? If this were a thread on women's progress/future in sports I wouldn't have a problem at all. But it's not one of those, and we're not burying our heads in the sand about the physical thing. So, why do guys always feel the need to bring it up? It's not for our benefit, I promise.

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It's like some dudes can't help but constantly remind us that no matter how hard we work we still ain't worth shit because we had the misfortune to be born female.

I remember that on GAF there were plenty of guys seriously believing they could take on the top NBA players. Fucking lol. I can only imagine it's 10 times worse for female athletes

The article reminds me of what happened at the gym I work at a couple of months ago. I was talking to one of our female guests, who'se basically a friend of mine. She was working out in the rings, another guy asked if he could join in in. Our gym's pretty relaxed, as is she, so sure he could.

We returned to our conversation about judo, and the guy asked her if she did judo. She said she did. He asked if she was any good. She said she won the Dutch Championship. He said he thought he could take her. After all, he had a green belt, and was a man. She got furious (rightfully so). First my jaw hit the floor, and than I laughed at him. He held his ground.

He honestly thought because he was a guy and knew the teensiest bit of judo, he could take on someone who was extremely skilled, extremely strong, and extremely competitive. So I just laughed at him and told him he couldn't beat her. I was more amused, when I probably should've thought about how she felt. I know she worked really hard for it, only to have some random macho try to take it away from her.

I actually hoped she'd accept his challenge and completely kick his ass, just to shut him up.

Men will always try to take on any types of athletes, men or women. I don't think it's exclusively tied to her sex.

When I see a woman on public transportation quietly reading a book in her corner with earphones, my first instinct is to pull off the earphones and ask her what book she is reading. She might want to be left alone, but my demand to know the book's name trumps that in my opinion.

Before someone calls me a sexist bibliophile, let me be absolutely clear that I do the same thing to men all the time.

I swear women just can't catch a break. When they play sports, random men want to prove they can best them. When they merely state that they like sports, random men begin a game of 20 Questions to prove that they don't.

What the fuck is wrong with some dudes?

H.Protagonist said:

I struggled similarly trying to respond to you because it's not like it's incorrect, exactly. It's just...tactless? A kind of passive, polite assholery one stepped removed from the guys challenging Peters (and therefore 'acceptable'). Like, you guys who agree that those challenging her are being jerks for doing it would never do it, but not entirely because it's a jerk move -- it's because you don't see the point as even high schoolers can beat professional women. There's no challenge there for men, nothing to be gained, no threat, etc. You don't feel insecure like these other dudes because it's not logical to you. And I say this because you all seem to agree that it's trash behavior yet still feel the need to dissect and qualify exactly how inferior women are to men in sports. And it's generally politely, clinically done because to you guys you're just discussing facts here.

So why is it a problem? It's just facts, right? That's why I struggled too. I don't want to make an argument based on feels. I'm not offended. I'm just bloody annoyed. Especially because (and it's not just you) those kinds of statements are followed up with stuff like "That's not to take anything away from the accomplishment of female athletes," as if that makes it better somehow. You've just said that kids can beat even the best of us, but hey, good effort! See? Kinda shitty, right?

So I guess the problem is: do you think it helps the issue that Peters is experiencing, the point of this thread ostensibly, by saying that professional women not only can't compete with top level men's teams, but that they can even be beaten by boys? Do you think women are unaware of our general physical limitations? That we need to be reminded constantly of that fact in threads like this? If this were a thread on women's progress/future in sports I wouldn't have a problem at all. But it's not one of those, and we're not burying our heads in the sand about the physical thing. So, why do guys always feel the need to bring it up? It's not for our benefit, I promise.

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Thank you for the thoughtful response.

I disagree with your assessment of the bolded. It wasn't my intention at all to convey that, so if that's what you and others read, I clearly did not communicate effectively. As stated in the OP, most of these random challengers probably get beaten, and that makes sense. So my point was not that it was pointless because they shouldn't feel insecure because of the bolded. That goes against my point that it's because of "tribalism", which makes no sense. It makes no sense to take credit for others in your "perceived" tribe. Just as it makes no sense to feel insecure that your tribe is being threatened.

And honestly, I wouldn't have posted what I did your in response to OP directly. It was in response to a post. But maybe the need to correct it is the issue.

Thanks again.