[Eurogamer] Fortnite on Android doesn't use Google Play

Just when Google thought they would have free money rolling in.

You know another Google could earn some serious money? Let me pay to so I can stop being tracked by them. Just because I searched for a toilet seat doesn't mean I need ads on toilet seats everywhere I go on the web.

EDIT: Matter of fact, I'm switching my default search engine to DuckDuckGo now.

It's ballsy, for sure, but if you're a big enough company that you think the profits from that 30% outweigh the losses from a more difficult, unreliable, and insecure distribution method, go for it.

I think people are kind of overstating the barrier for players, though. I think Fortnite's primary demographic is savvy enough to figure it out.

Having options for app distribution is part of the android model, you could use something like aptoide right now if you wanted. If the app does well maybe they could add security checks like they do for play store apps just to be safe.

More companies should do this. App stores have become monopolistic. We should question why they are necessary, especially now that they seem to fail to perform thier core duty of visibility.

Governments should start regulating Apple's behavior here too.

I feel that won't ends well.

Less people will download the game on Android because of this.

I'm sure it would have been the same case on iOS if Apple allowed non-App Store app installs. Can't say I blame Epic for doing it.

Incoming fake Fortnite APKs.

Google Play Store is a joke as a gaming platform.

dex3108 said:

Their core duty is to make platform safe not visibility.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Nope! That what permission and sandbox models are for. Notice how you find it safe to let websites arbitrarily execute code?

Kudo said:

Let's be real, most Android devices are loaded to boot with Google so I really doubt people care about spying at this point.
I was actually thinking about making a topic for this since gamers seem to be one of the least caring communities about privacy, literally everything we do is tracked and recorded, and nobody bats an eye. We are the product.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

At least Google tells me they collect data in exchange for something useful. I get nothing from the Chinese government tracking me.

Good for Epic. The 30% cut is a big fucking scam, the platform owners do next to nothing and somehow feel they deserve a third of your turnover. Compare to Wallmart that takes a 40% cut of physical goods, in exchange for physical stores, advertisements, inventory risk etc.

AppStore and Google Play cut needs to come down to 10%

Somnid said:

More companies should do this. App stores have become monopolistic. We should question why they are necessary, especially now that they seem to fail to perform thier core duty of visibility.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I agree, and it's why I don't like Apple shutting down that affiliate program. Basically, Epic is doing this for the same reason it doesn't go through Steam on PC. I don't use Android devices but I understand Android is essentially an open platform, so I always wondered why more companies didn't try to go big with their own competitors to Google Play. I always wondered about the feasibility of Valve creating a Steam store for Android. In the case of iOS I'd still prefer it if Apple handled all the certification, but it should definitely let other entities help curate software in their own way, so as to make more stuff visible to more niches.

Honestly, I think there should be a home console that allows something like this too. Not all consoles, just one choice among the consoles.

ResetEraIsTheBestEra said:

too bad they couldnt do the same on ios

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

For the better we are secure from that.

That even makes me imagine going on web to install "untrusting" games on PS4.

Bonejack said:

Definitely. I can see them massively limiting how sideloading will work in future Android versions.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Bonejack said:

Problem with that comparison is that Steam, too, is not a service/platform provided by the maker of the OS, therefore Valve can't just change some things to make EA's service not working anymore, thus force EA to come back.

Google can do that. Without any issues.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

They can't do that, at least not in Europe. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/10/eu-hits-alphabet-google-with-android-antitrust-fine.html

The good old open or closed debate which will lead into a iOS or Android debate. This may be a bargaining chip with google to get the cut down. Personally I didn't like installing things which weren't in google play before I switched to Apple. To many potential issues which brings us to the open or closed debate. Walled gardens bring you more protection but less freedom and vice versa. I completely understand why epic are doing it as they are a big product to do this. Google may need to respond and maybe there brand new Android Os they are working on will combat that going forward. This may fragment the Android market going forward leading to more things like this.

So yeah, it was confirmed by Epic themselves.



They are really gonna force the Android users to allow apps from unknown sources, huh?
I have a bad feeling about this...

Chittagong said:

Good for Epic. The 30% cut is a big fucking scam, the platform owners do next to nothing and somehow feel they deserve a third of your turnover. Compare to Wallmart that takes a 40% cut of physical goods, in exchange for physical stores, advertisements, inventory risk etc.

AppStore and Google Play cut needs to come down to 10%

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Good for epic. Not good for consumers.

Though I agree with everything else in your post. The 30% cut is crazy, yeah.

So children are going to end up with phones wide open to malware for doing this right?

It is fair from epic to try this, and will be fair from Google to lock Android further if they see it fit.
It already happens though, with some manufacturers like Samsung or huawei that have their own stores for their devices

Oh boy, this seems like a terrible idea from a security standpoint.

I hate the fact that "sideloading" as a term even exists. Nobody thinks it's necessarily scary to download a Windows program from somewhere other than the Microsoft Store, but Google have managed to make the basic concept of downloading a program and installing it on your device without going via their own special marketplace seem (to loads of people) like some arcane technical process that carries enormous risk.

There are legitimate concerns regarding malware-ridden fake downloads (although exactly the same concerns have surely existed on PC since the game was released), and it's true that the decision doesn't especially benefit end users, but it's irritating to see so much fearmongering about a process that's perfectly normal on PCs and always has been.

Even if the game was on the Play Store, it could still contain all sorts of privacy-infringing analytics and apps installed from external sources are still constrained by the same security features (sandboxing etc) as Play Store apps, so I don't really get the concerns about Tencent spyware. (EDIT: I mean with regards to Play Store vs alternative apk download. I don't have a problem with people worrying about invasive "analytics" in general, although an Android phone with default privacy settings is likely to be much worse for privacy than whatever Epic bundle into Fortnite!)

I wish there were alternatives to places like the App Store for people who know what they're doing, but the rise of App Stores is the only thing that convinced my mother to try anything different on her phone, for example. She's largely scared of the Internet, but "apps" don't seem like the Internet and don't seem like "software" to her. That stuff is scary because you can fuck it up, presumably. Within the confines of the App Store, though, which is more than enough for her, she downloads all sorts of stuff. It's been really nice.

This mostly seems like Epic wanting to get their 30%, knowing people will jump through hoops to play Fornite. They're probably right.

So it's fine to make Apple richer, but not Google?

Someone at google messed up.

TitanicFall said:

So it's fine to make Apple richer, but not Google?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

In the article he says that if Epic could do the same on iOS they would do it.

A lot of people here equate Google Store with great security.
I wonder how many people regularly use Windows 10 Store on PC, and totally ignore other ["insecure"] app sources.

hotcyder said:

So children are going to end up with phones wide open to malware for doing this right?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Children can open up their android for unsecure apps anytime they want. As an open platform, Android should support unresticted instalation of apps from any source. [and on Oreo, there is no permanent permission for installation, prompt is shown for each unsecure app]

TitanicFall said:

So it's fine to make Apple richer, but not Google?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I might be wrong but i think Apple forces you to use the AppStore.

Didn't Sony do this for their Playstation mobile platform a couple of years ago?

Dangerous thing... expect lots of scam apks...

dex3108 said:

Their core duty is to make platform safe not visibility.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Their core purpose is to rentseek and disadvantage software competing with the platform owner, and nothing else. They certainly don't work as safety mechanisms.

Good on Epic, but I'm not entirely sure that this is necessary. The Google Play Developer Agreement does not require you to use Google Play for IAPs - Comixology on Android for example uses Amazon's payment system, or their own, or Paypal, but doesn't even offer Google Play payments. The only restriction on Android is that you can't use a non-Google IAP mechanism to buy an application that is otherwise listed as free. But that doesn't seem to prohibit microtransactions.

Guymelef said:

Dangerous thing... expect lots of scam apks...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

100%

Completely fair. I think giving a 30% cut over for the things a storefront does makes a lot of sense if you aren't Fortnite/Epic. They have the infrastructure to do all of it on their own and the popularity to get away with not being on the main Android store.

Also I don't think Google will crack down on this sort of thing.

-COOLIO- said:

i think most fornite players would know to go the official epic site to download it, just as they did the pc desktop version.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

There's a world of difference in the Tech-Savvy of people with Desktops and people who only use Phones. Trust me, I know from firsthand unfortunate experience from people I'm trying to root out of my life.

They certainly don't need the visibility.

Besides, I have no idea how Google play even works when suggesting content, because the good stuff is usually hidden away.

Why do people have such a huge problem of enabling unknown sources on an Android phone but also have a huge problem going from unknown sources equivalent on PC to a walled garden?

pswii60 said:

Could this force/encourage Google to lock Android down a little more in future versions?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Even then, only a small percentage of active devices get updates on Android, so I don't think it will help them immediately.

TitanicFall said:

So it's fine to make Apple richer, but not Google?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You can't sideload on iOS otherwise Epic said they would have done the same there.

If any game can get away with this, it's Fortnite.

Guymelef said:

Dangerous thing... expect lots of scam apks...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

There would be stacks of scam APKs regardless.

Google probably can't crack down right now, as attempting to lock down Android would go down about as well as covering the new Pixel devices with uranium with the EU anticompetition authority.

I see no problem with this. Good for them.

Anyone know how much Apple takes?

While I get that 30% is a sizeable cut, I doubt Epic will not bitch about it unless it gets 100% of the revenue. Is Fortnite available on Windows Store? Isn't Windows Store collecting less than 30% for IAP? What's considered acceptable to Epic?

This just seems to expose unknowing Android users to potential malware. Google spent billions and years to develop Android. If Epic is not happy with these platforms, they should just make their own OS and hardware.

How exactly will updates work? Will it be able to update by itself in the background? Or will you have to open the app manually and wait for it to finish updating each time?

Anything that reduces the control Google and Apple have over the mobile market is a good thing in my book.

Cronogear said:

How exactly will updates work? Will it be able to update by itself in the background? Or will you have to open the app manually and wait for it to finish updating each time?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You'll have to open the app and wait for it to check the version and download updates per Eurogamer

Liquid Snake said:

Anyone know how much Apple takes?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

30%

Piccoro said:

So yeah, it was confirmed by Epic themselves.

They are really gonna force the Android users to allow apps from unknown sources, huh?
I have a bad feeling about this...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Apps sideloaded on android bring up a prompt before installing that you need to allow unknown sources and a checkbox saying to allow it just once. I don't see it being a huge deal. Iirc. Last time I installed an apk it worked like that.

Good call, Epic. Good call. This shit of stores taking such a bunch of money from creators needs to stop. And this applies for Sony, Microsoft, Steam and others as well. Hopefully this becomes a trend.

This spells a world of trouble for the number of kids that don't have a new Note 9 and will try to find bogus apks to download. Yeah, the 30% thing is bullshit but what's Apples cut? I foresee a shit ton of malware being installed on android very soon.

Edit: I see Apples cut is also bullshit.