H'aanit's dialogue in Octopath is completely different in Japanese

SolVanderlyn · Aug 3, 2018

I was going to post this in the main thread, but I've heard a lot of discussion about it (at least among my circle of friends), so I thought more people might be interested in it. Mods, feel free to move or lock this thread if you feel like that's the right thing to do.

I just went through the opening cutscene to H'aanit's story and retranslated it to the best of my ability. I tried to keep the tone of the original as much as possible without it sounding like a literal translation. A few things:

-The stylized English is obviously absent. It's Japanese, so of course it is. But the Japanese equivalent is standard Japanese.

-H'aanit comes off as much more down to earth and practical.

-Z'aanta comes off as a little bit more of a sleazy person, and generally talks in a much more laid back manner.

-The English translation adds several lines for the sake of "flowering up" the dialogue.

Here's my take on the intro cutscene:

H: Oh good, you haven't left yet.

Z: Yeah, seems that way.

Z: I wouldn't leave without saying goodbye to my cute little apprentice.

H: Always joking, aren't you…

H: Master, will your journey be long this time?

Z: About that…

Z: The request comes from the Knights. It's not going to be so simple.

H: …is that so.

Z: Hahaha! Don't worry about it. I'm your master, aren't I?

Z: And your master is a remarkable person. I'll finish the job and be back before you know it.

H: …

Z: Eh? What are you making that face for?

H: I'm not worried about your hunt. It's where you might stop off along the way that worries me.

Z: Ah…

H: …

Z: Just a little detour shouldn't be too bad… right?

H: Of course it's bad! And if you forget that, I'll remind you!

H: On the last hunt, you gambled away all of your money and came home poor!

Z: Ahhh, heh, about that…

Z: I did bet a few times at the arena…

Z: I found out I'm quite good at gauging the strength of monsters. Not a bad talent, eh?

H: If you're so good at it, why did you lose so much?

H: Eliza had to cover for you, and you only just finished repaying her for that.

H: Really, I think you've had enough of gambling for now.

Z: Hahahaha!

Z: But like the old hunter's saying goes: "If you fail the first time, get right back up and try again!"

H: *Sigh*

Z: Don't sigh like that! Your're making me depressed. Geez…

H: *Turns to Hagen* I leave the rest to you. Look after Master for me, won't you?

*Hagen approves*

Z: Even you would side against me!? What happened to being partners!?

H: I guess he has good judgement.

*Hagen makes wolf noises*

Z: *Under his breath* Growl at me, will you…

E: Sorry to keep you waiting. Oh! Have you come to see us off?

H: Oh, Eliza! I was just warning Master about straying too far off the path.

E: …Good idea. I don't think I can pay for his losses a second time.

Z: Dammit. Is nobody on my side?

E: I'm your friend, but I'm also a knight. Do anything bad, and I won't let it slide.

Z: Alright, alright. I get it, Lady Eliza.

E: I'm glad.

E: I'll have him send a letter detailing everything he does. I'll keep your master out of trouble.

H: Be careful out there. I'll be here looking after the forest, as always.

Z: Well then, I guess we should go.

__________

H: It's already been a year…

H: In all that time, Master only sent this one letter. That's just like him…

Z: Yo, H'aanit! It's me. Your beloved master!

Z: I won't bother you with the details. I don't even know when this will get there anyway.

Z: I've spent the last three months pursuing the beast the Knights are looking for.

Z: Its name is "Redeye."

Z: They say its name is "Redeye," but other than that, I honestly have no idea what it's really like.

Z: It's proving to be a real pain, this one.

Z: It keeps avoiding all my traps, and I think it can read my movements, as well.

Z: I don't know if this thing is actually intelligent or just has amazing animal instinct, but it's causing me a lot of grief either way.

Z: We've noticed it moving to other areas now.

Z: I think Redeye is moving towards Stonegard.

Z: *SORRY I COULDN'T HEAR THIS LINE BECAUSE SOMEONE STARTED TALKING TO ME*

Z: *THIS ONE TOO*

Z: But hey, don't worry about it! I'll definitely beat Redeye and come back to the forest.

Z: Look after the village for me until then, won't you?

Z: Don't be such a worrywart.

-Your master and friend, Z'aanta

H: This is ununsual. I've never seen Master take this much time on any hunt.

H: This Redeye must either be really strong…

H: Or Master is getting sidetracked again.

H: (No. Master might play the fool, but when it comes to hunting, he's…)

H: (If he said he'll catch his prey, he will. That's just the kind of person he is.)

H: *Sigh*

L: *Animal noises*

H: Yes, that's right, Linde.

H: Master left this village in my hands. My duty right now is to protect the people here.

H: Let's visit the Head Huntsman and see if he has any work for us to do.

What do you think? Do you like the direction they chose for the localization?

PMS341 · Aug 3, 2018

There was a really detailed post a user here wrote up describing how the English translation relied heavily on Chaucer-esque Middle English dialect that was really excellent. It made sense in that context, and I wish I could find it again.

low-G · Aug 3, 2018

Jeez, I assumed the dialect change was cuz they were trying to be old-fashioned and it was a misinterpretation from rural or something. (Usually English speakers think old speech sounds intellectual, rather than backwards) I thought in Japanese it might be Osakan dialect or something. But it's just nothing..

The writing and plots are mostly terrible.

Comic Obsessed · Aug 3, 2018

Is the Ophilia x H'aanit stuff still present though?

Because that's what most people care about.

mrmickfran · Aug 3, 2018

I hate her dialogue in the dub. Solely because of that, she is my least favorite out of the 8.

Massicot · Aug 3, 2018

I'm not an english scholar of any sort, but to me it came off and something more along the lines of what a middle schooler thinks an old english dialect/stage play would sound like, rather than sounding natural in a similar style. Just added an extra syllable to every other verb and a few other cynical edits and you're good to go I guess.

Edit: Basically I'm okay with the premise of making her section of dialogue have its own characteristic style, but not the execution.

brambles13 · Aug 3, 2018

Well now that I know it is just an annoying localization I will try playing this game in Italian instead. Maybe the localization is more tolerable. I have little tolerance for the faux middle English SE loves to use. I didn't love it in the Tactics Ogre remake on PSP either (but other than that TO was amazing).

Nav · Aug 3, 2018

So is Z'aanta kinda like a Master Roshi perv?

super-famicom · Aug 3, 2018

I've been playing Octopath with Japanese subtitles the entire time, and H'aanit sounds pretty normal, her voice is the deepest female voice. Her written dialogue has the Olde English, so it seems like a weird juxtaposition with what Japanese voice acting.

Sander VF · Aug 3, 2018

Nav said:
So is Z'aanta kinda like a Master Roshi perv?

From what I've seen in her prologue, not really.

He's addicted to gambling which gets him into trouble, but haven't seen any pervy humor

SolVanderlyn · Aug 3, 2018

super-famicom said:
I've been playing Octopath with Japanese subtitles the entire time, and H'aanit sounds pretty normal, her voice is the deepest female voice. Her written dialogue has the Olde English, so it seems like a weird juxtaposition with what Japanese voice acting.

Yeah, she's very direct and serious in Japanese. The translation makes her sound kind of airy and aloof, which changes the feel of her character. I haven't heard her English voice yet, though.

Nav said:
So is Z'aanta kinda like a Master Roshi perv?

Not really. Just a gambling addict.

hat_hair · Aug 3, 2018

SolVanderlyn said:
-H'aanit comes off as much more down to earth and practical.

-Z'aanta comes off as a little bit more of a sleazy person, and generally talks in a much more laid back manner.

That's pretty much how they came across to me in the translation anyway, though. Still, I'd have assumed the original dialogue was probably some kind of "de gozaru" accent, so it does seem a little odd that they chose that specific style of writing for the hunters.

Deleted member 8593 · Aug 3, 2018

PMS341 said:
There was a really detailed post a user here wrote up describing how the English translation relied heavily on Chaucer-esque Middle English dialect that was really excellent. It made sense in that context, and I wish I could find it again.

As someone who hated Middle English at uni... I'd still like to read this. Chaucer was the only thing I enjoyed from that class.

PMS341 · Aug 3, 2018

Dardan Sandiego said:
As someone who hated Middle English at uni... I'd still like to read this. Chaucer was the only thing I enjoyed from that class.

Somewhere deep in one of the Octopath threads (probably early on in the OT, but I don't have time to dig rn lol) are the answers you seek.

super-famicom · Aug 3, 2018

PMS341 said:
There was a really detailed post a user here wrote up describing how the English translation relied heavily on Chaucer-esque Middle English dialect that was really excellent. It made sense in that context, and I wish I could find it again.

Dardan Sandiego said:
As someone who hated Middle English at uni... I'd still like to read this. Chaucer was the only thing I enjoyed from that class.

It was in the OT, but I read that post a couple of weeks ago. It was very detailed and I appreciated that someone took the time to explain it to us.

JD3Nine · Aug 3, 2018

It's weird and feels out of place. I don't get why companies are still doing these dumb changes during localization.

ShinobiBk · Aug 3, 2018

SolVanderlyn said:
Yeah, she's very direct and serious in Japanese. The translation makes her sound kind of airy and aloof, which changes the feel of her character. I haven't heard her English voice yet, though.

Not really. Just a gambling addict.

She's not airy or aloof at all. She's a very serious and direct character.

rhandino · Aug 3, 2018

SolVanderlyn said:
-H'aanit comes off as much more down to earth and practical.

-Z'aanta comes off as a little bit more of a sleazy person, and generally talks in a much more laid back manner.

So... just like in the dub?

Completed 3 of her missions and read several of her interaction with the rest of the cast and the characters came out just like the way you described.

H'annit voice and dialect is awesome, love to do the final blow with her to hear her victory quote and loves when she startes the battle.

SolVanderlyn · Aug 3, 2018

ShinobiBk said:
She's not airy or aloof at all. She's a very serious and direct character.

I realize her core personality is the same, but it's when it's compared to the other characters that it becomes jarring. When everyone else speaks normally and someone else speaks like Chaucer, it makes them sound a bit pretentious by default. That's just my impression/opinion, though. If everyone spoke the same way it wouldn't feel off to me.

Nav · Aug 3, 2018

Sander VF said:
From what I've seen in her prologue, not really.

He's addicted to gambling which gets him into trouble, but haven't seen any pervy humor

Cool. Kinda refreshing old man vice to have, in both languages.

PMS341 · Aug 3, 2018

Alright, I did some digging and found this reddit post someone had mentioned in reference to the original post in the Octopath OT:

https://www.reddit.com/r/octopathtr...aanits_dialect_a_brief_analysis_of_its_noble/

First, I should probably clear up some possible misconceptions. It's a completely fictional dialect: English was never spoken like this. However, the fictional dialect is completely grounded in historical English. It essentially takes Early Modern English grammar and vocabulary and blends it with a watered-down version of Middle English's morphology, which, in the case of nouns, is in turn based on Old English's grammatical gender and, for loaned French nouns that came about as a result of the Norman conquest of England, French's grammatical gender. It is not based primarily on Middle or Old English. That's a common misconception, but it's important to understand that, because H'aanit's dialect is almost completely comprehensible, it's more rightly classified as a variation of Early Modern English.

And, according to the user who found the reddit post:

QuixoticNeutral said:
Lots more in the post itself. I can vouch for its accuracy. The quick summary: it's a fictitious dialect evocative of Middle English that blends it with some Early Modern (Shakespeare-era) and modern elements, particularly grammar—partly to remain comprehensible to today's audiences, I would think—and while some players may find it off-putting, readers familiar with the history of English will instantly spot what the localization writers were going for and recognize the amount of care that went into this part of the script. The writer of this breakdown seems to have seen more of Haanit's path than I have and has found some inconsistencies, and isn't quite as positive about it as I was in my earlier post, but overall we both see it as an admirable if flawed effort, more painstakingly crafted than you'll typically see in a video game that drops in a few Early Modern verb aspects/conjugations and calls it a day.

Imagine a fictional, isolated community speaking 14th-century English that has made sporadic contact with the outside world, learned to "switch on" modern English with outsiders as needed, and has seen their own local dialect change here and there as a result, not always in the most consistent or predictable way. (Or imagine a 17th-century theatre company performing the 14th century in a way that would still sound familiar to their audience, but uses just the right words to sound antiquated.) Octopath captures that very well.

Also recommended is this thread right here on ResetEraon Octopath's structural resonance with the defining work in Middle English that has survived to the present day, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. It's a pre-release thread informed entirely by the demo, but I find its general perspective convincing, and too many people who have gone into this game with experience in Chaucer or Middle English (myself included) have observed this independently to call it too much of a stretch.

However, they do link to the supposed original post, but the link they provide only goes to a random page, without the post regarding the dialogue on it. So there is still that somewhere.

Holundrian · Aug 3, 2018

I thought it was a very odd choice that for my sensibilities feels like overstepping. But since I'm not affected by it, it's kinda "eh" not my place to argue or care really.

Deleted member 8593 · Aug 3, 2018

Dardan Sandiego said:
As someone who hated Middle English at uni... I'd still like to read this. Chaucer was the only thing I enjoyed from that class.

I assume you were referring to the post quoted in this OP: https://www.resetera.com/threads/octopath-travelers-medieval-literary-roots.54054

Which does explain the choice of Middle English for H'aanit.

Rouk' · Aug 3, 2018

Reading your post OP, it seems the french translation is really close to the original japanese text. So the question is, Is english the only language that saw such a change ?

rhandino · Aug 3, 2018

I mean, H'aanit and Zanta village is in the deeps of a wood and they are pretty much isolated from the outside world except for the ocasional hunting requests from the Knights Ardante and/or the Lord of their land.

A super cool touch they also added is that Z'aanta, who has traveled to the outside in hunting missions, speaks to the people of the outside in "normal" english and switch back to his regular dialect when speaking to H'aanit.

Deleted member 82 · Aug 3, 2018

PMS341 said:
There was a really detailed post a user here wrote up describing how the English translation relied heavily on Chaucer-esque Middle English dialect that was really excellent. It made sense in that context, and I wish I could find it again.

Dardan Sandiego said:
As someone who hated Middle English at uni... I'd still like to read this. Chaucer was the only thing I enjoyed from that class.

PMS341 said:
Somewhere deep in one of the Octopath threads (probably early on in the OT, but I don't have time to dig rn lol) are the answers you seek.

super-famicom said:
It was in the OT, but I read that post a couple of weeks ago. It was very detailed and I appreciated that someone took the time to explain it to us.

Is this it? https://www.resetera.com/threads/octopath-travelers-medieval-literary-roots.54054/#post-10167506

I just searched "Chaucer".

Antitype · Aug 3, 2018

That's why I never liked Treehouse, they change stuff that doesn't need to be changed all the time. With Nintendo, EU localizations >>>>> Treehouse.

808s & Villainy · Aug 3, 2018

The English dub comes across exactly the same as what you posted OP. You're getting caught up too much in the flowery language. The personalities are exactly the same

Joffy · Aug 3, 2018

From what I've seen on h'annits dialogue so far it's actually nothing like middle English. It's how I'd imagine someone guessing at middle English would implement, rather than it was actually used. Makes it kind of frustrating to read.

Deleted member 34949 · Aug 3, 2018

I kinda like it, to be honest. At least they did their research in regards to the dialect as well, as that one post explains.

rhandino said:
A super cool touch they also added is that Z'aanta, who has traveled to the outside in hunting missions, speaks to the people of the outside in "normal" english and switch back to his regular dialect when speaking to H'aanit.

This was something I noticed and appreciated, too

Kalor · Aug 3, 2018

I prefer the way they did it in the localisation. It helps that region stand out since it is more isolated than the rest.

celigio · Aug 3, 2018

Rouk' said:
Reading your post OP, it seems the french translation is really close to the original japanese text. So the question is, Is english the only language that saw such a change ?

Seems to be, spanish subtitles she speaks normallly too. I get they want to flavor the text but too much flavor is also jarring.

Deleted member 15326 · Aug 3, 2018

I like her voice most out of the cast

Most characters including the main cast speak pretty normally in JP considering their ages and societal status, but the dialogue itself is unfortunately bog-standard and predictable

ILikeFeet · Aug 3, 2018

the hate for Hannit's speech is really overblown. all the hate feels ridiculous to me

lojo · Aug 3, 2018

Antitype said:
That's why I never liked Treehouse, they change stuff that doesn't need to be changed all the time. With Nintendo, EU localizations >>>>> Treehouse.

Treehouse didn't work on the Octopath Traveler localization.

KingDrool · Aug 3, 2018

My least favorite character, simply because of the obnoxious dialect. I punted her from my party the moment her Chapter 1 was done.

Renteka-Bond · Aug 3, 2018

Cindy Robinson did a great job with H'aanit and her dialect gives her a presence unique to her that the others don't, which helps show how her life has been isolated relative to the lives of the other people in the game, so I'm glad for it. I think it was a great choice.

Ridley327 · Aug 3, 2018

lojo said:
Treehouse didn't work on the Octopath Traveler localization.

I don't think they've ever touched any of the Squenix games that Nintendo has published in the west. Nintendo more or less signs the checks, and that's about it.

KtotheRoc · Aug 3, 2018

Reminds me of the original Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior) translation when they had the characters speak in this faux-Shakespearean English.

ZangBa · Aug 3, 2018

Her dialogue felt like a parody to me, absolutely awful. They should have stayed closer to the Japanese version on this one.

Antitype · Aug 3, 2018

lojo said:
Treehouse didn't work on the Octopath Traveler localization.

Then whoever did, did the same subpar job they usually do. Who did the English localization then?

DevilMayGuy · Aug 3, 2018

ShinobiBk said:
She's not airy or aloof at all. She's a very serious and direct character.

Yeah the translation didn't change her character for me at all.

Deleted member 9714 · Aug 3, 2018

I think to say it's completely different is overreacting. It makes it sound as if they deliberating went out of their way to misterpret the characters and text when in reality they just tried to add a funny accent the way Dragon Quest does.

Cloud-Hidden · Aug 3, 2018

As much as I love this game and everything it's done so well, I will admit that H'aanit's dialog is the reason I switched over to the Japanese VA and haven't gone back. I actually love her voice, too, it's just sitting through the reading of that ye olde Englishe and hearing it in every battle that's so weird. I just couldn't handle it.

Massicot · Aug 3, 2018

If the language was toned back a bit and read more like Ivalice localizations or such, I think it could have been a neat little thing. But instead every verb just ends in 'eth' now.

andymoogle · Aug 3, 2018

I don't get the hate. She is my main, and she is never leaving the party. Complaining about writing and story in a jrpg doesn't even make sense. They are always bad. Just like it is in gaming in general.

Anteo · Aug 3, 2018

SolVanderlyn said:
I realize her core personality is the same, but it's when it's compared to the other characters that it becomes jarring. When everyone else speaks normally and someone else speaks like Chaucer, it makes them sound a bit pretentious by default. That's just my impression/opinion, though. If everyone spoke the same way it wouldn't feel off to me.

Then it seems that its just your own interpretation of the transalation because I dont really see her as aloof or pretentious at all

CesareNorrez · Aug 3, 2018

Even though it's been explained the philosophy behind the dialogue, I'd just like to remind people Beowulf is Old English. Old English is basically unreadable and incomprehensible to those that know Modern English. Chaucer's Middle English is a bit better and decipherable, but the way it would sound to a Modern English speaker would make it hard to follow. Early Modern English is where things finally become relatively easy to comprehend.

So please stop calling Early Modern English, or takes on it, Old English.

Disclaimer · Aug 3, 2018

SolVanderlyn said:
Yeah, she's very direct and serious in Japanese. The translation makes her sound kind of airy and aloof, which changes the feel of her character. I haven't heard her English voice yet, though.

Her personality is identical in the localization; any perceived pretentiousness isn't a proper reading of her dialogue. That direct translation isn't appreciably different from the localized version—if anything, I think they gave Z'aanta and H'aanit more vivacious interactions.

I'm sure this goes without saying, but localization isn't about direct translation, but rather, capturing the spirit and intent of the original text, while adapting and (if possible) improving it for a target audience. Octopath's localization is, in that sense, excellent, and IMO the embellishments only serve to make it a superior product, with even more care attached.

(I'm the OP of the Canterbury Tales comparison thread, by the by. Glad to see people remember and enjoyed it.)

PMS341 · Aug 3, 2018

Kilrogg said:
Is this it? https://www.resetera.com/threads/octopath-travelers-medieval-literary-roots.54054/#post-10167506

I just searched "Chaucer".

I believe this thread came after the original post, but it does a lot to explain the influence towards Octopath as a whole.

H'aanit's dialogue in Octopath is completely different in Japanese

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