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patapon

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,614
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-08-03-sony-and-nintendos-strategies-converge

It's been a bumper week for Japan's console platform holders; results from both Sony and Nintendo confirmed that both PS4 and Switch continue to do incredibly well, with hardware sales bumping along at a solid pace and software soaring.

The results are especially positive for Nintendo, in some respects, since they come after months of negative speculation about the company's fortunes which have weighed heavily on its stock price. Much of that negativity seems to have related to an expectation that this quarter's results would compare poorly with the strong sales of Switch in the same quarter last year. While hardware sales did fall (unsurprisingly, given that the comparison is against a launch quarter featuring strong demand for Mario Odyssey and Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild), the fact that they remained within the same ballpark is a testament to how well demand for Switch has held up.

Looking at the bigger picture, the really important thing about both company's results is that they essentially mean that both major platforms remain on track to hit their ambitious annual guidance numbers. That means that guidance for Switch, which is selling more strongly than the Wii was at the same point in its lifespan, remains set at 20 million units this year. The PS4, with an installed base of almost 85 million, is certain to top the 100 million mark within the next couple of years.

The strength of Switch lies in the strength of Nintendo's exclusive software output, and nothing demonstrates this more clearly than the fact that launch titles like Mario Odyssey continue to have an attach rate above 50 per cent despite the console's strong ongoing sales - an almost unimaginably high ratio.

That's nothing new for Nintendo. When the company does well, it's almost always because of a well-managed and strongly executed software slate, but what's interesting is the extent to which the underpinnings of Nintendo's success are also to be seen on the Sony side. For PlayStation, the strategy seems to be panning out to one of supporting every quarter with a tentpole release - a process which looks risky, given that it involves Sony pouring resources into gigantic, generous blockbusters that no other company would be willing or able to fund, but also a process that seems to be working amazingly well.

The company didn't release details on individual software titles' performance in its financial results, but it's a safe bet that the exquisite God of War effectively held up the sky for Sony in the past quarter (insert your own Grecian-themed Pillars of Hercules gag here). It would be unwise to bet against the next quarter being even better off the back of Spider-Man, a title which is likely to be one of the year's best performers, and The Last of Us 2 will play a similar tentpole role in the fourth calendar quarter.

These are hugely expensive gambles, but they're paying off handsomely, and they reflect a Sony that has slowly reinvented its role from being primarily a hardware platform holder to being a lot more like Nintendo - primarily a software publisher producing tentpole releases, with the PlayStation platform as a whole both supporting and being supported by that software. Sony's execution on this kind of strategy is the real success story of the PS4 era; if the company can effectively and smoothly manage the transition period it's likely to enter into in 2019, shifting to next-gen hardware without causing a PS4 game drought or stumbling in some other way, it'll have executed damned near perfectly across a full hardware cycle.

Looking at the surprisingly similar position these two very different companies have arrived at in terms of the synthesis of their software and hardware efforts, it becomes easier to understand why the game console market is booming in spite of the dark predictions that it would be wiped from relevance by the proliferation of smart devices and cheap, powerful PCs.

While being a platform holder is a non-negotiable part of the business model for both Sony and Nintendo, they've each independently come around (Nintendo much, much earlier) to the approach of being first and foremost a developer of world-class software, with their hardware platforms existing in a symbiotic and mutually supporting relationship with that software.

That's what Microsoft missed in this generation. It stumbled early but went on to release excellent hardware in the form of Xbox One S and X, but it didn't show the will or capacity to evolve its software offerings to the same extent as Sony until the generation was already almost spent.

As long as platform holders continue to hold that advantage, to be willing and able to create the exclusive games that no other publisher can afford to fund or take a risk on, there'll always be a market for game consoles - no matter how smart every other device gets along the way.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,073
It would be unwise to bet against the next quarter being even better off the back of Spider-Man, a title which is likely to be one of the year's best performers, and The Last of Us 2 will play a similar tentpole role in the fourth calendar quarter.

Looks like the author knows something we don't ! TLOU Part II coming Feb. 22th 2019 obviously.
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,775
I mean a lot of this seems like pretty obvious stuff... yes, platforms do well when you create exclusive experiences for them.
 

Peek-a-boo!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,192
Woodbridge
What I find most interesting upon reading this article is that the PlayStation 4 and Switch seems to sell well together in harmony, whereas outside of the US, the Xbox One seems to be dwindling in popularity/sales, which the weekly PAL charts threads - in its second biggest market by a significant margin - are progressively showing.

The second to last quote box stating, "but [Microsoft] didn't show the will or capacity to evolve its software offering" compared to Sony and Nintendo is true, and is reflected in weekly or monthly software and hardware threads.

Yes, they have bought five new studios for their next console however, sometimes it is about the here and now, not two, three or four years down the line.

Worth a read.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
What I find most interesting upon reading this article is that the PlayStation 4 and Switch seems to sell well together in harmony, whereas outside of the US, the Xbox One seems to be dwindling in popularity/sales, which the weekly PAL charts threads - in its second biggest market by a significant margin - are progressively showing.

The second to last quote box stating, "but [Microsoft] didn't show the will or capacity to evolve its software offering" compared to Sony and Nintendo is true, and is reflected in weekly or monthly software and hardware threads.

Yes, they have bought five new studios for their next console however, sometimes it is about the here and now, not two, three or four years down the line.

Worth a read.
It is about the here and now, but the problem for Microsoft is that it takes a significant time and resource investment to get to that stage, they are clearly seeing the strategy working for Sony and Nintendo so want a piece of that pie for Xbox4.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
I think this article is exaggerating the importance of exclusives to Sony's bottom line. The "hardware platform holder" part of the business is still where Sony will be making by far the majority of their money (unlike Nintendo).
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
To be honest, as someone not interested in Sony's first party offerings, it can be hard for me to keep track of what's what.

I think author might've meant last fiscal quarter, tho.
Is this a stealth "all Sony games look the same" post? Because Days Gone and TLoU look nothing alike if you've actually seen them.
 

H-I-M

Banned
Apr 26, 2018
1,330
It is about the here and now, but the problem for Microsoft is that it takes a significant time and resource investment to get to that stage, they are clearly seeing the strategy working for Sony and Nintendo so want a piece of that pie for Xbox4.


But didn't Microsoft 'buy studios, get ready they're coming' before, without showing much results? Or are you saying it took them until 2018 to realize they wanted a piece of that pie?

I'm just asking.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,303
"The PS4, with an installed base of almost 85 million, is certain to top the 100 million mark within the next couple of years."


Mmm couple?

It will be done next summer, unless...unless PS5 is 2019 :P
 

boi

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,768
User Warned: Off-Topic Derailment Attempt
I would say Nintendo's and MS's align better.

Survive-TOgether-Xbox-nintendo.jpg
 

Amaterasu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,310
This holiday is just going to be insane for Switch. Just because Era doesn't like the new Pokemon for the most part doesn't mean the masses won't, and Smash for the more hardcore fans.
 

zomgbbqftw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
331
London, UK
Rubbish and poorly researched. SCE always had a very strong publishing element. The difference today is that being the platform holder means exclusive games stand out a lot more given the lack of third party exclusives. In the PS2 era Sony could count on a slew of Japanese publishers who were Xbox-phobic to release exclusive games on PS2, that carried into PS3 era a little bit but hasn't been the case for PS4 at all, barring the minor one here or there. First and second party games have always been a USP for all of the platforms (think Halo for Xbox and 360, Uncharted for PS3 and PS4, Mario games for Nintendo consoles). I think the difference today is that it matters a lot more than in the past, not only are third party games all very samey, they are riddled with microtransactions, loot boxes and irritating treasure hunting/collection aspects that no one wants. First party games still offer a throwback to a different era of gaming, one without games being designed around how to get the player to spend as much money in game as possible.

I also think the writer has completely missed Sony's incredible output on the PS3 which completely destroys the point he was trying to make, Sony has always been a strong publisher. As I said, the difference now is that their games stand out by having almost no competition in the single player/narrative driven space they occupy.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
But didn't Microsoft 'buy studios, get ready they're coming' before, without showing much results? Or are you saying it took them until 2018 to realize they wanted a piece of that pie?

I'm just asking.
They seemed to buy and shut down studios previously (ala EA). But now they seem to have changed strategy to be properly focussing on development first party titles as they see that strategy working for Sony and Nintendo.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
"The PS4, with an installed base of almost 85 million, is certain to top the 100 million mark within the next couple of years."


Mmm couple?

It will be done next summer, unless...unless PS5 is 2019 :P
Not entirely sure about summer, but next calendar year, absolutely looks unavoidable at this point, even if they announce ps5 next E3.
 

ACL

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,304
PS3 generation was when they really pushed for a 1st ond 2nd party strategy, that resulted in a consistent output throughout the years. While they enjoy big success with their flagship games now, they decreased their output and shut down several studios, their strategy seems to have moved towards these tentpole titles more then having a constant stream of 1st party games. While their massively pushed games like God of War perform very well, games like Gravity Rush 2 and Last Guardian don't. But games like FIFA and CoD still are the most important "PlayStation" games in my opinion.
 

Peek-a-boo!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,192
Woodbridge
It is about the here and now, but the problem for Microsoft is that it takes a significant time and resource investment to get to that stage, they are clearly seeing the strategy working for Sony and Nintendo so want a piece of that pie for the next Xbox.

I am pleased to see that Microsoft are finally making some positive moves for themselves however, given their comparatively slim output compared to both Sony and Nintendo, surely they should have begun to pursue all of these fundamental changes when their software line up was beginning to go awry back in late 2016?

I would say Nintendo's and MS's align better.

This Games Industry article is mostly about software output and how they are positive influences in their current popularity and sales, but given the random cross-play image you posted, I don't even think you took the time to read the OP, let alone the article in question.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,963
I think this article is exaggerating the importance of exclusives to Sony's bottom line. The "hardware platform holder" part of the business is still where Sony will be making by far the majority of their money (unlike Nintendo).
It's the PS+ side which is everything, 1st and 3rd party. Will be the same for Nintendo when they get it running.

God of War played a big part in the recent earnings though. But even that doesn't compare to PS+ money.
 

Nimmermehr

Member
Oct 27, 2017
135
The strength of Switch lies in the strength of Nintendo's exclusive software output, and nothing demonstrates this more clearly than the fact that launch titles like Mario Odyssey continue to have an attach rate above 50 per cent despite the console's strong ongoing sales - an almost unimaginably high ratio.
Mario Odyssey is not a launch title, though..
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Rubbish and poorly researched. SCE always had a very strong publishing element. The difference today is that being the platform holder means exclusive games stand out a lot more given the lack of third party exclusives. In the PS2 era Sony could count on a slew of Japanese publishers who were Xbox-phobic to release exclusive games on PS2, that carried into PS3 era a little bit but hasn't been the case for PS4 at all, barring the minor one here or there. First and second party games have always been a USP for all of the platforms (think Halo for Xbox and 360, Uncharted for PS3 and PS4, Mario games for Nintendo consoles). I think the difference today is that it matters a lot more than in the past, not only are third party games all very samey, they are riddled with microtransactions, loot boxes and irritating treasure hunting/collection aspects that no one wants. First party games still offer a throwback to a different era of gaming, one without games being designed around how to get the player to spend as much money in game as possible.

I also think the writer has completely missed Sony's incredible output on the PS3 which completely destroys the point he was trying to make, Sony has always been a strong publisher. As I said, the difference now is that their games stand out by having almost no competition in the single player/narrative driven space they occupy.
Agree.
As much as i love their first party narrative driven games, they should try also to deliver a few Nintendo like games. They are not as big budget as TLoU or GoW (not cheap either, especially Zelda or Odissey), but should also try to go for those evergreen games that cater a wider audience. Astroboy comes to mind. Just like they tried with LBP on ps3
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
Agree.
As much as i love their first party narrative driven games, they should try also to deliver a few Nintendo like games. They are not as big budget as TLoU or GoW (not cheap either, especially Zelda or Odissey), but should also try to go for those evergreen games that cater a wider audience. Astroboy comes to mind. Just like they tried with LBP on ps3
Dreams and Concrete Genie comes to mind as well as very experimental games on PSVR. They are different companies and have different design philosophies. I'd say Sony needs one more hit MP game and Nintendo perhaps another hit story driven game and they'll be very well balanced in portfolio.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
Not entirely sure about summer, but next calendar year, absolutely looks unavoidable at this point, even if they announce ps5 next E3.
Yeah, how the author figures couple years for Sony to sell under 15 mil consoles, I don't know. They will hit that before 2019 Holiday season most likely. Especially with Spider-Man and RDR2 coming and TLOU2 most likely next year plus kind of crazy Q1 2019.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
I think this article is exaggerating the importance of exclusives to Sony's bottom line. The "hardware platform holder" part of the business is still where Sony will be making by far the majority of their money (unlike Nintendo).
Agreed. Sony is in the position they are in because they attracted the most third parties earlier than its competition. Third parties are what kept Sony as close as they were last gen in spite of MS doing exactly what they're being criticized for now.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Yeah, how the author figures couple years for Sony to sell under 15 mil consoles, I don't know. They will hit that before 2019 Holiday season most likely. Especially with Spider-Man and RDR2 coming and TLOU2 most likely next year plus kind of crazy Q1 2019.

6 Year consoles do tend to slow down, Sony does believe it will be down YoY, though it did adjust upwards 1 Million because of God of War's success. Spider-Man is one of the biggest IPs in the world of comics (I believe he easily has the biggest toy line and awareness ww) So I do believe this year will sell more than next year (which includes Q4's KH3 for this year) E3 announcement of PS5 (if it happens) will definitely slow sales, likely to half and that means Holiday 2019 for 100M, but PS4 will still easily end it's life as the 4th most sold gaming device ever, could actually achieve 3rd (beating out Gameboy/Color's 118M, but that is not a sure thing even if everything goes PS4's way)
 

Meowmixez

ESS ESS DEE
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,154
Imagine if Sony's first party efforts were as good as Nintendo's. Sony has some very good titles but it isn't nearly as solid. Some of the stuff they fund will never have the wide appeal either. If they were less experimental just a tad, it would really help. Heck, if their Japan division would pump out better, more numerous software like in the PS2 days it would really boost them.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
Imagine if Sony's first party efforts were as good as Nintendo's. Sony has some very good titles but it isn't nearly as solid. Some of the stuff they fund will never have the wide appeal either. If they were less experimental just a tad, it would really help. Heck, if their Japan division would pump out better, more numerous software like in the PS2 days it would really boost them.
They are, they've been comparable if not even better since last gen.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
Imagine if Sony's first party efforts were as good as Nintendo's. Sony has some very good titles but it isn't nearly as solid. Some of the stuff they fund will never have the wide appeal either. If they were less experimental just a tad, it would really help. Heck, if their Japan division would pump out better, more numerous software like in the PS2 days it would really boost them.

they're getting there tbh and if you like the types of games Sony puts out more so than others they're already on equal footing, albeit without the multiple decades of consistency
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
6 Year consoles do tend to slow down, Sony does believe it will be down YoY, though it did adjust upwards 1 Million because of God of War's success. Spider-Man is one of the biggest IPs in the world of comics (I believe he easily has the biggest toy line and awareness ww) So I do believe this year will sell more than next year (which includes Q4's KH3 for this year) E3 announcement of PS5 (if it happens) will definitely slow sales, likely to half and that means Holiday 2019 for 100M, but PS4 will still easily end it's life as the 4th most sold gaming device ever, could actually achieve 3rd (beating out Gameboy/Color's 118M, but that is not a sure thing even if everything goes PS4's way)
PS5 is more likely to happen in 2020 so we probably won't see it announced at 2019 E3. Even then with PS5 announcement Sony can finally drop the price to $199.99 next year, driving pricing for more value oriented consumers, coupled with a huge game library with cheap (relatively speaking) games.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Imagine if Sony's first party efforts were as good as Nintendo's. Sony has some very good titles but it isn't nearly as solid. Some of the stuff they fund will never have the wide appeal either. If they were less experimental just a tad, it would really help. Heck, if their Japan division would pump out better, more numerous software like in the PS2 days it would really boost them.
as i did earlier, Sony needs to have some budget for Nintendo like games, that appeal to a wider audience no matter the moment into the generation. But still go and try experimental and non commercial games, along with their story driven games, to have almost every here covered.
I also wish Nintendo tried into the aaa single player story driven games for a change, since their hardware platforms usually lack because of their power limitations.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
Yes, Sony's first party strategy has been fascinating to behold in terms of its evolution. They have fashioned themselves after Nintendo. but with their own style of games, and the result is amazing- fantastic masterpieces like God of War and Bloodborne.
In the end, that's the ultimate long term security you can have as a console manufacturer- there is a reason Nintendo is still around after all these years, after having had so many screw ups, missteps, and failed platforms, and that reason is that Nintendo has an immense catalog of beloved games and some of the best development talent in the world, which means people will always be willing to spend money on a new Nintendo platform- 14 million people bought the fucking Wii U! No other company could have sold something as terrible as that.
Sony now finds itself in the same place. As long as it continues to cultivate WWS, its brands, IP, and studios, it too will have the cachet of bankable games that will always sell their new hardware, no matter what.
 

Vaser

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,004
Great third party+great first party seems to be the winning combination, PS4 wouldn't be where it is today without Worldwide Studios.
 

Deleted member 29909

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
681
Sony obviously doesn't have the bandwidth to release a AAA game every quarter, that's just silly talk. More like Spring and Fall releases.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
Sony obviously doesn't have the bandwidth to release a AAA game every quarter, that's just silly talk. More like Spring and Fall releases.
Sony has the bandwidth to have a major release every quarter for sure, it's just that two of them would be relatively lower tier, and two would be God of War tier.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Sony obviously doesn't have the bandwidth to release a AAA game every quarter, that's just silly talk. More like Spring and Fall releases.
I don't think it is necessary, at least not for their kind of AAA story driven game. It would lead to genre fatigue imo.
They can release mid sized games, platformers for example, to widen their catalogue and appeal.