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Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
You may have heard that this year marks the 20th anniversary of Panzer Dragoon Saga, though by now, even the European release date has passed. There's nothing quite like the game, especially at the time of its release. It's an RPG born from a rail shooter, is incredibly short, and incredibly ambitious ... to varying degrees of success. The game begins at an imperial excavation site the main character, Edge, is guarding, when a hostile creature attacks from within the site. In the midst of fighting off the creature, Edge notices a strange artifact from within the site, which seems to enshrine a human figure. The distress signal the guards send out is answered by Craymen, who just so happens to be looking for the very artifact that Edge sees. Craymen defects from the empire and attacks the mercenaries guarding the site, including Edge, and steals the artifact. Edge spends most of the game fighting off the empire while chasing Craymen and the girl. Saga is not a long game. You can comfortably beat the game in 12 hours. The first disc is at most 2. But that time is dense, rich, full of battles, and full of cutscenes.

The game is both fully 3D, and fully voiced. Every NPC you approach in the game has a voiced line, and these change over the course of the story. It's full of both cutscenes that make incredible use of the Saturn's capabilities and FMV, which are often somewhat lacking. The Saturn cutscenes are "well shot," and well framed, changing camera angles multiple times over the course of each scene. Whoever was in charge of directing the cutscenes had an eye for these elements, and was clearly incredibly talented. Even when the character modeling wasn't quite there to bring the game to the heights it deserved.

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Even the mere entrance to a new location can be exciting.

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And battles are often visually remarkable as well.

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The very beginning of the game features a lengthy CG, with impressive character models for the time. This is the best Edge and Azel will look in the game:

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The rest of the CG feature some of the worst character models you'll see from a higher budget JRPG from the late 90s; Edge's character model is more or less a better version of his Saturn model and animates as such. He looks okay, but Azel looks strange, and scenes featuring her don't quite give the sense of the enigmatic character the game so desperately wants to portray, regardless of the incredible work of the voice actress. Using FMV to better portray the more intimate scenes between individual characters sounds like a good idea on paper, and that's why scenes with Azel often end up CG. The (Japanese) game is named after her, after all. But in the end, they probably would have been better off with just voice acting and Saturn models for these.

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Even then, some of the rougher FMV do have some striking visuals.

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But despite how rough it all is, something about it works. The music is some of the best, most memorable, and unique in the genre you'll hear. And the voices elevate the game to another level. This is a bit of an oxymoron, given the game's rough CG visuals, but something about Edge's voice actor makes me feel like I'm playing through a Ghibli film. (There's also the fact that it's almost assuredly influenced by Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, but almost all Japanese games from the era are probably inspired by some Ghibli film). And there is a film like quality to the game. It's not just cutscenes, and camera angles. The game's short length is a sign of the game's plot moving at a very deliberate pace. Perhaps it forces it to. The game features a great story, and it's still worth going back to.

Though maybe not 500 USD great. Maybe you're interested in this game, but don't want to pirate it and don't want to play it in Japanese. This year I decided to record the entire game, edit it, and translate the whole thing. Something tells me the original translation is perfectly fine, and I'm not sure my amateur translation measures up, but I decided to do it for fun. I've played through the whole game, have edited more than half what I've recorded, and have translated the beginning of the game. I'll be uploading a video once a week or so (hopefully more than one), for the next few. For those who are interested in the game, here's a heavily edited version of it.
Enjoy.



Captured from hardware.

Parts 2 & 3

Update!

Parts 4, 5, & 6

- It's not a literal translation. I take a lot of liberties.
- That being said, there are a few parts that are probably still too literal, including one that I forgot to go back and change. Oops. The "of a higher pedigree" line is another one of them. Literally says it has the certificate to go with it.
- Speaking of "Machral," I decided to use the game's language to translate what's "attack life form" in Japanese. I thought of "Hostile Life Form" or just "Hostile Form," but nothing sounded right.
- I thought I had combed through all of it, but noticed a typo later on. There might be a few.
One of the character names doesn't fully match the Japanese romanization in the manual, because I forgot to go back and check. It took me over an hour to render it, so I'll have to fix these things another time.
 
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Squanchy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8
Always happy to sit and watch people play this beauty. I had this back in the day, Then one desperate Friday I sold it for a tenner so I could go out on the piss. Now my days are dark, But I did have a good piss up so....
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,365
Thanks for putting the work into this. It's one of my favorites, and I feel like a crazy person gushing about it, knowing it's relatively hard for people to actually get their hands on it to play. The shorter playtime (for a long-form RPG) is actually one of my favorite things about it; They pull in so many tones, moods, and settings without falling into filler territory. Those times a zone feels like it stretches on a bit long, there's a pacing reason for it. The art still stands out so distinctly.
 

Femto0

Banned
Apr 28, 2018
2,591
The Sega answer to ff7. Amazing game unfortunately everybody forget it even Sega....
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,365
I would sit at the dragon advancement screen and just morph between the forms. It looked so cool.
 

Chackan

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,097
Panzer Dragoon Saga and Silent Hill 2 are always fighting for number 1 game of all time for me.

It makes me sad that we will never have anything new in the Panzer Dragoon world :|
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
Azel looks great in the FMV imo. Not your typical wanna-look-sexy JRPG gal or anything. But still beautiful in her own way. Lovely design even if it's better conveyed in the 2D art. Edge isn't just the game model prettied up either. Look at all that roundness and detail in the face which in-game is basically a flat square with drawn on features. I think the biggest issue with the FMV is the compression, the art is sound, maybe not like Square's or Blizzard's best at the time but, well, duh. And yeah some are quite a bit rougher, but then even in FF7 you have those FMV that use the in-game super deformed style for example with cubic character arms and everything... The budget didn't allow every scene to have awesome FMV in any game back then unless the FMV were few and far between.
 
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OP
OP
Encephalon

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
I would have liked to make higher quality gifs, but I don't have photoshop at the moment, so I'm beholden to imgur.

Thanks for putting the work into this. It's one of my favorites, and I feel like a crazy person gushing about it, knowing it's relatively hard for people to actually get their hands on it to play. The shorter playtime (for a long-form RPG) is actually one of my favorite things about it; They pull in so many tones, moods, and settings without falling into filler territory. Those times a zone feels like it stretches on a bit long, there's a pacing reason for it. The art still stands out so distinctly.

There are other playthroughs around, but hopefully this version has something to offer those looking for a highly condensed version. I'll be working on it for quite a while, but the next video is more or less already translated. Of course, there's nothing quite like playing a game yourself.

It's a crime it's never been released again. They should just emulate it and release it on modern platforms.
 

DAREALGUMMY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
484
I'm going to be that guy and say while some of camera work is really great, I wouldn't call them film like.
 

Soundchaser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,613
The soundtrack is out of this world, the composer recently released the anniversary arrangement:
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,005
There is no game I've wanted to play more over the years that I can't because there are so many hoops for emulation that I gave up trying and any physical copy is prohibitively expensive.

I know the source code is lost but can Sega find any other way to release this? Just make an emulator and use game disc data with some tweaks?
 
OP
OP
Encephalon

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
There is no game I've wanted to play more over the years that I can't because there are so many hoops for emulation that I gave up trying and any physical copy is prohibitively expensive.

I know the source code is lost but can Sega find any other way to release this? Just make an emulator and use game disc data with some tweaks?

I'm pretty sure there was a knowledgeable poster on the board who claimed that it didn't matter that they lost the source code, because it's irrelevant in 2018 anyways. Emulation is how they've released other games, right? It sounds right to me.
 

kyoP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
121
Amazing gifs! I've yet to play Panzer Dragoon Saga so I'm hoping for a re-release sometime in the future. Until that, I can't wait to play Orta on my X. Really enjoyed listening to the Arrangement Soundtrack as well.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,505
The things that made PDS shine were the superb battle system, voice acting and great atmosphere. Good art design too, but we knew that going in based on PD & PDZ
 

spool

Member
Oct 27, 2017
773
I ended up with the Japanese version of the game by accident when I bought a cheap Panzer Dragoon pack when I was after PD2. I didn't know what the Azel disc included was and figured it had to be a demo or something. I'd love to play it, but sadly I don't speak Japanese so I've only booted it up to confirm that it still works.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
God I'd love to play this again! I played it in 2000 I think? After I was done I sold my copy for something like $250.

Finest JRPG ever made. It is a bit short but the amazing world, production, story, combat, and characters just shine.
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
I ended up with the Japanese version of the game by accident when I bought a cheap Panzer Dragoon pack when I was after PD2. I didn't know what the Azel disc included was and figured it had to be a demo or something. I'd love to play it, but sadly I don't speak Japanese so I've only booted it up to confirm that it still works.
If it's only one disc then it's not the full game you have, just the first of, iirc, four. It was given out as a demo in Europe by Saturn Magazine (or Power, I forget). I guess Japan also got that deal somehow and the seller felt like passing it on to you?


There is no game I've wanted to play more over the years that I can't because there are so many hoops for emulation that I gave up trying and any physical copy is prohibitively expensive.

I know the source code is lost but can Sega find any other way to release this? Just make an emulator and use game disc data with some tweaks?
Hoops? Saturn's emulation has been about as painless as any other old system's for the past several years. Maybe more painless than PlayStation 1 even thanks to having less options for plug ins and settings and stuff. I use Mednafen right now, with Mednaffe 0.88 for GUI and it's been perfect but before that I was using SSF with similar enough results (it doesn't need a separate GUI app as it has a GUI of its own rather than just command line usability like Mednafen). Yabause might work too.
 
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spool

Member
Oct 27, 2017
773
If it's only one disc then it's not the full game you have, just the first of iirc four. It was given out as a demo in Europe by Saturn Magazine (or Power, I forget). I guess Japan also got that deal somehow and the seller felt like passing it on to you?
I just checked and it's one of those double cases with four discs in it so I think it's the full game.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,187
Absolutely amazing game - crazy what they achieved in that generation of consoles, let alone on a Saturn.

Always happy to sit and watch people play this beauty. I had this back in the day, Then one desperate Friday I sold it for a tenner so I could go out on the piss. Now my days are dark, But I did have a good piss up so....

lol goddamn
 

Ogni-XR21

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,390
Germany
I got the Japanese version back in the day (I don't speak Japanese), if I had known how rare the PAL version was gonna be I would have bought it when it released.
Back then I made it to disc 3 with a transcript. I should really try to finish it some day. Great game with a great setting, like all the Panzer Dragoon games.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,294
Nice thread OP. I do wish I could own a copy of this in any form but know it probably will never happen. Game is definitely a classic important to the genre that is lost in time for the majority of gamers due to it's high barrier of entry. I'm not sure I'd want to replay it now though considering I have many other RPGs that I have yet to play(FF15, persona 5).
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Beautiful game and I have the fondest memories of it. I remember seeing it on clearance at a toys r us for $10 back in the day . Didn't buy it because I already had a copy though. Go figure.
 

cervanky

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
Thanks for this thread OP, those are some nice gifs. This game is really something special. The only other RPG that really captures a similar feel in my heart is - and it might seem like a strange comparison - Vagrant Story.
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
Thanks for this thread OP, those are some nice gifs. This game is really something special. The only other RPG that really captures a similar feel in my heart is - and it might seem like a strange comparison - Vagrant Story.
For me it's Xenogears. I guess VS for the awesome for the era 3D graphics though. If Xenogears had looked that good, omg!
 

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
It's definitely one of the top 10 or 20 games ever made. The only thing that keeps it from being widely regarded is its scarcity. There's nothing like it. And dat battle system. Oh, man.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,355
Great thread, Encephalon. And holy shit at you re-translating the entire thing? That's an insane amount of work haha. Was the original English translation not up to par, or something?

Still one of my favourite games of all time. It's a work of art and so infuriatingly, preciously rare.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,307
This flair for the cinematic was evident in the rail shooters as well like the part in Zwei when your dragon flies for the first time. They brought what they learned there to the RPG.
 
OP
OP
Encephalon

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
You know, playing the Japanese game with a guide and a transcript is probably a really viable means of approaching it.

Great thread, Encephalon. And holy shit at you re-translating the entire thing? That's an insane amount of work haha. Was the original English translation not up to par, or something?

Still one of my favourite games of all time. It's a work of art and so infuriatingly, preciously rare.

Not the whole, whole thing. Just all of the cutscenes. It should amount to 13 videos. I have no idea if the English translation is good or not; I'm doing this for fun and maybe practice, so I've made a point of not seeing it. I don't want to cheat by seeing how the original translators approached certain things, worded others, etc.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,355
You know, playing the Japanese game with a guide and a transcript is probably a really viable means of approaching it.



Not the whole, whole thing. Just all of the cutscenes. It should amount to 13 videos. I have no idea if the English translation is good or not; I'm doing this for fun and maybe practice, so I've made a point of not seeing it. I don't want to cheat by seeing how the original translators approached certain things, worded others, etc.
I see. Still a lot of work, but I can see having fun with such a project (a friend and I once translated the entirety of A Game of Thrones in French... for fun.... yeah... we had a lot of free time then >.>) and it's probably good practice. :)
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,035
This is a lovely thread Encephalon, thank you. I played Saga right when it came out on my friends Saturn when I was still in the UK, we both had a blast playing through it but i oddly remember so little of it. I've revisited the original, Zwie and even Orta (which has the original in just in case anyone is unaware) several times over the years, but never Saga. I do really want to give it another go.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,365
I think this was the first game I played that treated a torture scene like...well, a torture scene. They didn't set it up like some "test" or display of how strong the character is; it was horrible and meaningless and cruel.
 

Virtua King

Member
Dec 29, 2017
3,973
My favorite JRPG ever. There's nothing like PDS, and I hope someday it becomes available beyond just on the Saturn. I also highly recommend to fans the 20th anniversary OST that recently came out, because it really is a labor of love.
 

Kent

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
"Lost source code" didn't stop Code Mystics from doing what they did with Phantom Dust - which includes building modern Xbox Live and achievement integrations into it.

I dream of the day that someone pays them to do what they did for Phantom Dust with this series.
 
OP
OP
Encephalon

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
It's been far too long, but I went back and fixed some issues with the first video, and went on to translate the next two. I'm well into the fourth video at the moment. I also decided to include some summaries. They're in spoiler tags due to the large amount of images, and well, spoilers if you're watching the game for the first time.

Part 1

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Edge is a "mercenary" guarding an Imperial excavation site when a Machral attacks from within.

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In the midst of the attack, Edge finds a mysterious artifact that appears to feature a human girl.

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The crew sustain casualties, before they're met with the next misfortune - a commander in the Empire defects, attacking the excavation crew and stealing the artifact.

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Edge is seemingly killed, falling into an abyss that lands him in the depths of an ancient ruin. But a mysterious light enters his body, and he is brought back to life. He runs into a hoard of Machral within the ruin, but is rescued by a dragon, which shows him a vision. And so begins his journey.

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He races back to the captain, who tells him that he needs to recover the artifact stolen by Craymen, the commander who attacked the site. Otherwise, the Empire will suspect Edge (and the rest of the crew), endangering his life.

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Chasing after Craymen, he rescues a masked man named Gash who calls himself a "Seeker."

Part 2



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Gash asks Edge to take him to the village of Cainus, which they find reduced to a ghost town after a Machral attack. Gash tells Edge that he's looking for someone or something called "the Visitor," and that Craymen passed through the desert.

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A trip through the desert reveals a landscape seen in Panzer Dragoon 1.

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Gash had told Edge that it's safer to move underground where there are less Machral, but the two encounter a giant one in "the Blue Ruins" before making it through to the other side. The two split ways, but not before Gash hands Edge a pendant, telling him to seek out a caravan.

Part 3



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Edge visits the caravan to find a hostile response - before the village leader sees Edge's pendant, and realizes he's an ally. Apparently Craymen and his men came in, robbing the caravan of much needed weapons and medicine. Edge is told that Craymen headed to the "Restricted Area" to the north.

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Edge visits the Restricted Area, and finds a teleport system that allows him to enter the skies above the region. There's supposed to be a "gravity storm" nearby, so maybe that's why he can't just fly up ...

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Edge successfully takes out Craymen's ships, and enters the main ship ...

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... only to find that Craymen isn't there. Arwen is, and claims that he's just a decoy (for the Empire).

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Just then, the girl in Edge saw in the excavation site (Azel) attacks, and so begins the first Atolm Dragon fight. She flies off after losing the battle, and that marks the end of the first disc. Pretty quick.

Next up, disc 2.

I think this was the first game I played that treated a torture scene like...well, a torture scene. They didn't set it up like some "test" or display of how strong the character is; it was horrible and meaningless and cruel.

I find that scene so striking, every time. It's a great scene, not just because it feels real, but because it shows the Empire searching for Craymen - as well as how they operate.

The Woods

This really late, but I'm glad you appreciated the thread. I was kind of worried I would post it, only for it to fall off the face of the earth unnoticed.
 
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Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
Gonna post this in every PDS thread:

To anyone who missed it, this is an absolute must-read feature with many of the devs from a few months ago:

The Ruinous Road of Gaming's Missing Masterpiece
'Panzer Dragoon Saga' remains one of the greatest video games of all time. Twenty years after its creation, it also remains nearly impossible to play, a cult classic whose elusiveness mirrors the misery that suffused its development, setting, and story.


https://www.theringer.com/2018/1/29...games-panzer-dragoon-saga-missing-masterpiece
 
Remember that time when SEGA print ads basically mocked you for not being able to buy this masterpiece because they admittedly pressed too few disks?

I still have my collection of EGM magazines in my basement. From the back cover of issue 112 November 1998.

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Oh SEGA! Only you could hate your own fans so much.



I've played every Panzer Dragoon game except Saga. Maybe it's time I emulate.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
Panzer Dragoon Saga was really impressive visually too, especially with the Sega Saturn hardware. It really had that movie-like quality to it but it didn't feel like a wannabe movie because the gameplay was so good. The battles and exploration simultaneously play well and look really good (from a style POV). Would have been amazing to see a Dreamcast remaster of PDS with cleaner 3D.