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El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,041
Trevorrow was dropped from star wars after having a box office failure with a movie that was as disconnected to disney as it could be.

Snyder was blessed with chances
Does Snyder have incriminating pics of Tsujihara or something?

How can a man fail time after time and still not only get a second chance, but with the one of the studio's most important tentpoles!?

At least with the Wachowskis they always made their own things with no franchises in mind. Snyder was given the motherfucking keys to the kingdom, as it were.
 

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
I still want to see Snyder's original cut. Lol

And I don't know about y'all but I don't have any insider info on whether Snyder or WB execs had final say on picking writers and the editing on BvS.

But, speculating is fun.
 

NotGreatBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
384
Does Snyder have incriminating pics of Tsujihara or something?

How can a man fail time after time and still not only get a second chance, but with the one of the studio's most important tentpoles!?

At least with the Wachowskis they always made their own things with no franchises in mind. Snyder was given the motherfucking keys to the kingdom, as it were.
Snyder from most accounts I've read is a good, likable dude who gets along well with studio execs and manages the business side of filmmaking well.

Seems likely that a big reason he's been kept around despite a growing list of underperforming critical duds is that WB just likes the dude. But personal likability can only save your ass for so long in a business like this.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Does Snyder have incriminating pics of Tsujihara or something?

How can a man fail time after time and still not only get a second chance, but with the one of the studio's most important tentpoles!?

At least with the Wachowskis they always made their own things with no franchises in mind. Snyder was given the motherfucking keys to the kingdom, as it were.

Snyder at that time made films with small budgets on time, made loads of money.

Nobody would take the rush job of a Superman revival so they wouldn't lose the rights, he was down the pecking order and willing to deliver in short time. As for the whole keys, it was some work load and Snyder was up for it, very creative to you tastes or not and probably sold them on a universe with his character pitches. BvS happened but WB had already loaded the production and weren't willing to stop the train and here we are.
 

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
Snyder at that time made films with small budgets on time, made loads of money.

Nobody would take the rush job of a Superman revival so they wouldn't lose the rights, he was down the pecking order and willing to deliver in short time. As for the whole keys, it was some work load and Snyder was up for it, very creative to you tastes or not and probably sold them on a universe with his character pitches. BvS happened but WB had already loaded the production and weren't willing to stop the train and here we are.

Sounds about right.

I remember reading that part of his talent with visuals goes hand in hand with being diagnosed with ADHD or something along those lines.

Which kind of explains why he's not suited for a writer position, and probably why BvS is so scatterbrained.
 

FoneBone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,823
Have not read through this whole thread, but: were almost all of Cavill's scenes reshot? To my eye, he had Uncanny Valley face most of the time he was onscreen. On top of that, neither the black suit Cavill teased nor that Alfred scene from the end of the SDCC 2017 trailer made it into the final movie, which leads me to think that most of the Superman stuff was drastically overhauled from whatever Snyder originally filmed.

I doubt it'll ever happen, but even as someone who's not a huge fan of Snyder, I'd love to see whatever rough cut existed pre-Whedon, just to know how much the film changed.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
Know what? Despite a basic story, TERRIBLE CGI (especially for Henry Cavill's moustache) and the overall feeling that this team up wasn't earned, I actually liked this a bit. Nowhere the narrative disaster that BvS and Suicide Squad were.

The film overall critically is a 6/10, but Ienjoyed the rebooting of Superman, jarring as it was, cause he's FINALLY the character Ineanted to see! Every Superman part that made me smile was obviously retouched by Whedon, and all the better for it.

Know what, WB, let's just start from scratch with a director who knows what they are doing, boot Snyder, forget continuity with all the previous films except for Wonder Woman, and let go ahead with this Superman who actually is a charming dogooder.
 

LifeLine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,779
Hated suicide squad and hated the editing of BvS, but this wasn't that bad.

Liked the final post credits scene too, suprised marvel hasn't already done a villian team antagonist.
 

valeu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
319
just got back from the film. i saw all the superhero films this year and justice league was my second favorite after doctor strange, which i only liked better because he's my favorite comic book hero. but JL was perfect. no complaints. i was happy to see hottie joe manganiello as deathstroke.
 

thermopyle

Member
Nov 8, 2017
2,983
Los Angeles, CA
I enjoyed Superman's presence in these films for once but GODDAMN that mustache edit was so fucking noticeable it kept taking me out of it. Just awful.

I can say I wasn't too bored but it was certainly not a good movie. DC seriously needs to kick Snyder off this universe and hire someone who can steer this ship in the right direction.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Superman finally feels like superman in this universe. That opening scene alone is better than anything theyve done with the character in the last two movies. AMazing what happens when you dont turn everyone into a murdering psychopath. Cavill feels like superman and as someone who doesn't think the character is particularly interesting in the first place, I'd be more than happy to see more of what we got in JL.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
Liked the final post credits scene too, suprised marvel hasn't already done a villian team antagonist.
Now that you mention it, that's one way DCEU can differentiate themselves from Marvel, since Marvel has been spending all this time slowly building up one villain, DC is free to jump into Injustice League.
 

joeposh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
162
Movie was fine. Not great, not bad, just fine.

I was worried after the initial two scenes -- Superman flashback (which was just full of corny dialogue and a off camera "kid" who sounded like an adult trying to play the part) seemed really unnecessary, especially given the cut to a newspaper highlighting his death basically said it all. The Batman sequence that followed felt more like a throwback to the Burton Batman movies, and the dialogue in it gave me Suicide Squad flashbacks. The "3 boxes" appearing and then the goon Batman had used as bait said something like "An attack from space? It's because he's gone isn't it. Superman." I almost groaned out loud.

Both felt like scenes that got added because some exec's got skittish about audiences understanding the plot. Very out of place and clumsy.

Luckily, things get better from there.

The introduction of each character was handled really well. They managed to give each hero a real background and sense of character without overplaying it. Cybrog might have actually gotten the best treatment of the bunch, and it made me care a lot more about his character than I expected. Aquaman didn't get as much background, but I'm all in for his drunk, biker bro persona. The interplay of the characters in general was really strong. Biggest holes were the fact that Flash's powers were not explained at all, outside of a throw away line while digging up Supes, and there's not really an explanation about why Cyborg is on their radar at all, given they don't seem to know about his current state.

The action sequences largely worked for me, which I wasn't expecting, but I agree the "let's resurrect Superman" idea seemed to spring up way too quickly. Also, for all their desire to set the stage for newcomers at the beginning of the movie, they never explain the Lex Luther/Doomsday resurrection bit that they essentially replicate. Just make a quick reference to it when Cyborg is evaluating the system. At first I thought that was because they'd prefer to leave Lex behind, but that's obviously not the case if you sat through the credits.

Steppenwolf was fine, not an exemplary villain, but totally serviceable. His final battle and demise was better than the resolution in Wonder Woman, so that's noteworthy.

Ultimately my biggest gripe with the film was the dialogue, something I wasn't expecting to say given how involved Whedon was. Flash's character just seems like an overacted caricature of Aspergers. His jokes just did not land for most of the movie, and that was the case for most of the "quips".

There's potential moving forward, and I am all in for a standalone Aquaman film, but the DCEU needs to really get a new team of writers who understand humor and can do more than tee up set pieces.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
Have there been any rumors of an extended cut or anything coming? I really would be interested to see what was left on the cutting room floor. I'm still sad we didn't see Omega beams come out of the boom tube at the end and vaporize steppenwolf.
 

OrangeAtlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,109
So where do they go from here?

Are we ever going to see Darkseid, or just Steppenwolf and nothing?

Are they going to ever follow up that Knightmare/future warning?

Is that post credits scene ever going to lead to anything?

I would love to see how their plan was supposed to play out if these movies were, you know, good. As t stands now they have a bucket of ideas on the table and they're randomly throwing their hand in to see what will work.
 

BLOODED_hands

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,937
Now that you mention it, that's one way DCEU can differentiate themselves from Marvel, since Marvel has been spending all this time slowly building up one villain, DC is free to jump into Injustice League.

Hm.... Maybe that's how they can differentiate themselves from the MCU. Instead of superheroes, we get supervillains and/or anti-heroes? Instead of the usual Superman, Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman, etc. movies, we get the Mongol, Brainiac, The Joker, Deathstroke, Reverse Flash, The Rogues, Cheetah, Circe, etc. films. Each film will be able to cameo the heroes, but the focus is entirely on the villains for their respective movie.

Alas, we are here so...... My idea isn't possible currently.

I wouldn't mind if WB or Disney did that for their comic book movies though. Shit, I wouldn't mind a Squadron Supreme movie. That shit sounds badass!
 

emir

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,501
Batman's situation on this movie it's completely bullshit. Bruce Wayne's characterization after BvS are terrible. Jokes, dialogues sucks. My only expectation was Batman, they screwed up him too.

And these two post-credit scenes are better than the whole movie.
 

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
So where do they go from here?

Are we ever going to see Darkseid, or just Steppenwolf and nothing?

Are they going to ever follow up that Knightmare/future warning?

Is that post credits scene ever going to lead to anything?

I would love to see how their plan was supposed to play out if these movies were, you know, good. As t stands now they have a bucket of ideas on the table and they're randomly throwing their hand in to see what will work.

I kinda think they are better off just doing solo movies for 5-10 years and then doing another team flick.

The animated films have been doing it for years. Just do great stories and people will watch them.

Trying to jam pack all those storylines in a well manicured universe is Marvel's style.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Canada
Steppenwolf did absolutely nothing in this film, the whole thing was a meandering bore fest.

Gadot was good, Flash was tolerable...

The Pet Sematary references were good, though... and the classic Elfman/William cues.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
Batman's situation on this movie it's completely bullshit. Bruce Wayne's characterization after BvS are terrible. Jokes, dialogues sucks. My only expectation was Batman, they screwed up him too.

And these two post-credit scenes are better than the whole movie.
His situation is his flaws are being exposed for the first time. This is the first time we've seen a Batman not be 100% and I kinda like it.
 

Sketchsanchez

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,702
Damn I really liked it. The cgi was pretty bad sometimes but jeez, I throughly enjoyed it.
 

joeposh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
162
And the way basically every character treats her as a sex object? Awful, I can't stand her and I still was crawling in my skin. Literally every hero has a scene like that with her it's so weird.

Yup, the "low" camera angles that were obviously designed to capture her butt in the shot, and the fact that 3 of the 4 heroes she interacts with make some awkward reference to how attractive she is just totally undermines how they handled her character in the stand alone film. It was completely tone deaf and I'm sure we'll get a lot of think pieces about that.
 

Trekkie

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
925
Damn I really liked it. The cgi was pretty bad sometimes but jeez, I throughly enjoyed it.
I think it ultimately comes down to how much of a fan you were of things like Justice League Unlimited and nerdy comic book culture

If you loved and enjoyed stuff like that then this movie is for you.

I personally loved BVS and MOS, but i'm aware that they weren't everyones cup of tea.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
Yup, the "low" camera angles that were obviously designed to capture her butt in the shot, and the fact that 3 of the 4 heroes she interacts with make some awkward reference to how attractive she is just totally undermines how they handled her character in the stand alone film. It was completely tone deaf and I'm sure we'll get a lot of think pieces about that.
I only had a problem with Flash being on top of her but other than that, idk, everything else seemed harmless.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,271
Who made these originally? We need a new one for Justice League:

g3THP9R.gif

9ErfHy2.gif
 

TI92

Alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,598
I think it ultimately comes down to how much of a fan you were of things like Justice League Unlimited and nerdy comic book culture

If you loved and enjoyed stuff like that then this movie is for you.

I personally loved BVS and MOS, but i'm aware that they weren't everyones cup of tea.

Ah, the "made for fans!" Argument.

I loved JLU and young justice and read comics on the regular. These movies suck. Stop trying to make this about "fans" vs non fans.
 

Trekkie

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
925
Ah, the "made for fans!" Argument.

I loved JLU and young justice and read comics on the regular. These movies suck. Stop trying to make this about "fans" vs non fans.
well maybe I'm just speaking for myself then, I've never occupied any other human body to actually verify though.


I enjoyed all of the above.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
So most of the stuff I liked about superman were reshoots with Whedon. It makes so much more sense now. He very clearly understands that character so much better than Snyder and the one we got was so much more interesting than super mope.
 

TI92

Alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,598
well maybe I'm just speaking for myself then, I've never occupied any other human body to actually verify though.


I enjoyed all of the above.
That's fine, you made it seem like these are movies made only for fans which is a typical deflection argument for these horrible movies.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
I'm sorry but it was horrible. Wonder woman I don't feel treated women any better, but this was the worst of the series so far. Like how Lois was a cat writer following the death of Superman? And then when he is back she's all "I was so weak... You would have been so disappointed..." Like JFC. No wonder she skipped the premier.

Bad bad bad movie especially for women's
She was in the grieving phase. I didnt see anything wrong with how she tried to explain her feelings to Clark. She has always had undying love for Clark and vice versa.
 

MexM

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 10, 2017
2,783
I enjoyed it!

-Didn't expect Superman would be brought back that way lol Glad he smiles way more now (his interactions with his teammates were great)
-Was hyped when previous GL and Shazam(?) appeared in Wondie's tale.
-The CGI was kinda rough.
-This Barry Allen is very different but I don't really hate him
-Some jokes kinda missed but others were funny
-Bring on Hal Jordan!!
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
She was in the grieving phase. I didnt see anything wrong with how she tried to explain her feelings to Clark. She has always had undying love for Clark and vice versa.
Na. That was indefensible. She literally says she failed Superman's expectations while he was dead because he would have expected her to do more than grieve, is some literal "a doll's house" patriarchy.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
Not sure I have ever seen another Hollywood movie where it was so painfully obvious that another director took over the direction and writing. The entire second half of this movie was reshot. Honestly why didn't they just remake the whole fucking movie?
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
Not sure I have ever seen another Hollywood movie where it was so painfully obvious that another director took other the direction and writing. The entire second half of this movie was reshot. Honestly why didn't they just remake the whole fucking movie?
By the time Whedon came on they only had a couple of months left. That's no time to shoot a whole movie.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,887
Does Snyder have incriminating pics of Tsujihara or something?

How can a man fail time after time and still not only get a second chance, but with the one of the studio's most important tentpoles!?

At least with the Wachowskis they always made their own things with no franchises in mind. Snyder was given the motherfucking keys to the kingdom, as it were.


Not to mention get producer credit for DCEU, along with his WIFE. He must have made tons of money working with DCEU.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
If I didn't know they had to CG out Cavil's mustache, I would have been fooled.

But this is just me. I was fooled by Rogue One and Blade Runner 2049.
 

BlueTsunami

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,510
Despite all the problems with this films production I actually enjoyed it. I laughed, I was amazed, there were good emotional moments. Outside of Wonder Woman its the one film in the series where the pacing didn't grate on me.

The villain though. Wow. I think I'd prefer some no name blob atomic bomb to this vanilla ass destroyer of worlds chump. Everytime he was on screen I generated negative interest. Design down to the voice acting. Horrible. And his army? Those paratroopers just looked goofy which clashed with the realistic look of the heroes.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Movie was a solid 5/10, I liked it just as much as I did BvS.

First act with Bruce finding everyone was real boring but things picked up a lot during act 2. Flash was great, Aquaman was decent and I'm not sure if Cyborg had a personality. Steppenwolf was comically bad, even Ronin had more to him than this dude. There was some decent action thanks to him, though. Reshots were crazy noticeable but I ended up not thinking Stachegate was that bad, I mean, it was noticeable but not as bad as I thought it would be.

So, yeah, I dunno. I guess Flash's movie should be cool.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
I'm sorry but the scenes shot by Snyder early on in the movie had a clear advantage in staging, lighting, composition. The Whedon stuff looked like total amateur hour. How much of that is owed to a lack of proper post production time who knows but it's really jarring. I would have preferred a 3-hour Snyder Watchmen style epic compared to what we got. At least it would have looked ace

And what was the point of the first scene with Wonder Woman? Has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. Just an excuse to give her an introductory action scene
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Lets talk about the family that hung around steppenwolf's secret base for absolutely no reason and we kept getting random scenes that cut to them just boarding up their house with an army of parademons outside. Like god damn that was comedy gold. I dont get why that at all was necessary, they weren't important and the fact it showed them screaming and cowering in fear when the parademons feed off fear and somehow didn't notice them hanging out was so odd. Cut that shit out of the movie.