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Valve's Artifact is coming to Steam on November 28 for $20 [Up: Beta in October]

rpm

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,356
Parts Unknown
Helacious said:
Hex tcg cards can be resold just like artifacts and the packs are around a buck too IIRC.
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Had to look this game up, never heard of it. Is that a dev set price or a player set price? In my limited research, it seems like that's a player set/community price for a game that seems to be dying.
While I believe the dev set price is $4 in MtGO, boosters can go for below/above that on 3rd party market places, depending on the expected value of a pack of a certain set (much like physical MtG boosters). Artifact will probably be the same way, assuming boosters will be eligible to be put on the Steam marketplace (i.e. the price will be below $2 if players only get an average of $1 worth of cards out of a pack, which is why I said the singles market will be much, much more important than the dev set price of a booster)
 

Deleted member 5545

User requested account closure
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Gonna play it at PAX decked out in all my accumulated TI swag

Stand aside magic scrubs, Daddy Safelane is here
 
DanteMenethil

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
rpm said:
Had to look this game up, never heard of it. Is that a dev set price or a player set price? In my limited research, it seems like that's a player set/community price for a game that seems to be dying.
While I believe the dev set price is $4 in MtGO, boosters can go for below/above that on 3rd party market places, depending on the expected value of a pack of a certain set (much like physical MtG boosters). Artifact will probably be the same way, assuming boosters will be eligible to be put on the Steam marketplace (i.e. the price will be below $2 if players only get an average of $1 worth of cards out of a pack, which is why I said the singles market will be much, much more important than the dev set price of a booster)
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Its the price to buy a card pack directly from the store (and how the packs enter the economy). It works just like MTGO except instead of trade bot its a tradehouse/auction house where people set the price in either the free farmable currency or the paud only currency. Just like mtgo if you want to draft your are better off buying packs second hand from players.
 
Delusibeta

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Yeah, considering everyone's getting 120 cards + a pair of starter decks, I would expect that singles will be pretty cheap, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the vast majority of the tier 1 decks can be constructed for less than $10 exclusively through buying single cards from the Steam Marketplace..
 
zoukka

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Show this thread to people like 5 years ago and they would melt. "It's not f2p wtf?!"
 
Totakeke

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
Delusibeta said:
Yeah, considering everyone's getting 120 cards + a pair of starter decks, I would expect that singles will be pretty cheap, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the vast majority of the tier 1 decks can be constructed for less than $10 exclusively through buying single cards from the Steam Marketplace..
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Well it's either cards going to be priced high enough that it would be worth a single person's effort to sell cards, and in that I case I strongly doubt the best decks would only cost $10, or it would be just dominated by bots.
 
DanteMenethil

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
Valve will make so. much. money. From that 15% cut off every single transaction while every single card that entered the economy had to pass through their 1$ buyin too. The mad lads.
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,168
I can get behind the idea of retaining value from your purchases due to the marketplace (all yoi can really do is sell your account in most popular ones). But at the same time, im really really used to dropping no money for these types of games. The fact that there is no in-game currency gels with what they are trying to do but i dunno, definitely makes me hesitate
 
DanteMenethil

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
closer said:
I can get behind the idea of retaining value from your purchases due to the marketplace (all yoi can really do is sell your account in most popular ones). But at the same time, im really really used to dropping no money for these types of games. The fact that there is no in-game currency gels with what they are trying to do but i dunno, definitely makes me hesitate
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On the other hand, no more pressure to play daily. You dont have to play every single day to grind dailies, you dont have to play a fast meta deck to maximize winrate and thus the free currency. You can play at you leasure, stop for months then jump right back in with a new 10-15$ deck. For me that seems like a very interesting dynamic and more much casual friendly in a weird way.
 

Randomly Generated

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
Helacious said:
On the other hand, no more pressure to play daily. You dont have to play every single day to grind dailies, you dont have to play a fast meta deck to maximize winrate and thus the free currency. You can play at you leasure, stop for months then jump right back in with a new 10-15$ deck. For me that seems like a very interesting dynamic and more much casual friendly in a weird way.
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This was a point Newell made in his presentation a while back. "Free to play" isn't really free because you end up spending a huge amount of your time on it in order to stay competitive, and they're trying to avoid that with Artifact.
 
Hektor

Hektor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Deutschland
Soulstoner said:
This. Even Magic is trying to catch up with Magic Arena, with those users asking the dev's for feature parity with Hearthstone.
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Magic Arena is already more advanced in its features than hearthstone ever was, the only thing it's missing is an option to play against friend.
There's nothing Magic has to catch up to.

Not like these two games compete for the same market anyways
 
xyla

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,386
Germany
I'm so in! This is my most wanted title this year!

Hopefully there will be a beta before it goes live..
 
Durante

Durante

Dark Souls Man
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Oct 24, 2017
5,074
Helacious said:
On the other hand, no more pressure to play daily. You dont have to play every single day to grind dailies, you dont have to play a fast meta deck to maximize winrate and thus the free currency. You can play at you leasure, stop for months then jump right back in with a new 10-15$ deck. For me that seems like a very interesting dynamic and more much casual friendly in a weird way.
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The whole "log in every day and do this crap" in many F2P games does get incredibly tiresome.
 
Sendou

Sendou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62
Finland
Very interested for sure. Never played a card game before but Valve always knew how to make a game so most likely going to give it a go when November comes.
 
Mifec

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,752
Sendou said:
Very interested for sure. Never played a card game before but Valve always knew how to make a game so most likely going to give it a go when November comes.
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It's made by the dude who did MTG. He went to Valve with the idea and they gave him the IP. It's gonna be cool af.
 

Deleted member 7450

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User Banned (1 Week): Drive-by posting with offensive/homophobic content.
Mod Edit: Removed video.

lol
 
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mattiewheels

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,107
I just remembered I (for some reason I can't remember it's been so long) have one of those Valve complete passes on Steam that, when i got it, said it entitled me to all future paid Valve releases. You think that's still in effect?
 
BernardoOne

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
adrem007 said:
I don't know. 20 bucks for a base and then whatever money for more cards? That doesn't sound cheap
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Sounds a lot more cheap than the gacha that is Heartstone that requires you to pay and roll dices to get cards.

Meanwhile in this you can actually trade your cards with other people, as well as buying them individually, as well as selling them.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

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Nov 1, 2017
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Sendou said:
Very interested for sure. Never played a card game before but Valve always knew how to make a game so most likely going to give it a go when November comes.
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You should definitely try out Magic Arena. You can probably get a free beta code pretty easily these days from players on here.
 
jon bones

jon bones

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Oct 25, 2017
26,024
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samred said:
Valve didn't disclose what that $20 gets you, so I got the answer. Our piece just went live: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...s-artifact-coming-in-november-starting-at-20/

$20 is required to play the game (meaning, you can't buy cards off the Marketplace and then jump in)
Comes with two "base" decks, 54 cards each, and 10 packs of 12 cards each

More on the game's launch economy, and add'tl pack purchases, at the link above.

EDIT: I updated the article after posting this link, because Lombardi confirmed to us that each new players' starter combo of base decks and card packs may include dupes. This seems to create an immediate "sell/trade your dupes on the Steam Marketplace" path for people who buy into the game.
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Thabk you! Great info!
 
Totakeke

Totakeke

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Oct 25, 2017
1,673
BernardoOne said:
Sounds a lot more cheap than the gacha that is Heartstone that requires you to pay and roll dices to get cards.

Meanwhile in this you can actually trade your cards with other people, as well as buying them individually, as well as selling them.
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What "trading your cards with other people" actually means that the market will decide the value of a single card (if the game takes off). And that value depends on the worth of winning games of Artifact. If Valve decides to host competitions with big prize money, the worth of all the most important cards, will skyrocket. It'll never be $10 for a tier 1 deck if that deck can win you tons of money unless there's just so much supply of all the cards. In the case of oversupply, the cards will have no value and that's also very unlikely to happen as that would defeat the whole purpose of trading.

So I would not be surprised if the best decks end up costing hundreds of dollars in terms of card value.
 
Arulan

Arulan

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Oct 25, 2017
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The simple fact that I'll be able to trade my cards with my friends already makes this more interesting to me than any other digital card game. Not to mention being able to buy a specific card I'm looking for, or sell the ones I'm not. These should all have been basic features of any digital card game.
 
Soulstoner

Soulstoner

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Oct 27, 2017
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Metallix87 said:
That's because, with more features, Arena could be strictly better than Hearthstone. They want to convert the latter's audience over time.
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Are you playing Arena currently? I'm in the Beta, and I get the impression (plus some posts on Reddit) indicating that it's still quite expensive compared to Hearthstone.

I spend about $150 per expansion on Hearthstone and I get what I need, with dust to spare. Is the same true for Magic do you think?
 
DanteMenethil

DanteMenethil

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Oct 25, 2017
8,058
Totakeke said:
What "trading your cards with other people" actually means that the market will decide the value of a single card (if the game takes off). And that value depends on the worth of winning games of Artifact. If Valve decides to host competitions with big prize money, the worth of all the most important cards, will skyrocket. It'll never be $10 for a tier 1 deck if that deck can win you tons of money unless there's just so much supply of all the cards. In the case of oversupply, the cards will have no value and that's also very unlikely to happen as that would defeat the whole purpose of trading.

So I would not be surprised if the best decks end up costing hundreds of dollars in terms of card value.
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Unless the power distribution is such that there literally 1-3 cards that are instant win, there's zero chance of having cards worth 100$. The supply at 2$ per 12 cards is just too high. Cosmetics / alt art cards though? Very possible.
 
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Totakeke

Totakeke

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Oct 25, 2017
1,673
Helacious said:
Unless the power distribution is such that there literally 1-3 cards that are instant win, there's zero chance of having cards worth 100$. The supply at 1$ per 12 cards is just too high. Cosmetics / alt art cards though? Very possible.
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No, it won't be a few cards out of the entire 40 card deck that make up the majority of the costs, the costs will be distributed throughout the deck. And those cards do not have to be "game winners". I don't know how Artifact plays yet, but take rare land cards in MTG as an example. Those do not ever win you the game on their own, but considerably improve your deck consistency, and they are still worth a decent amount.
 
DanteMenethil

DanteMenethil

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Oct 25, 2017
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Totakeke said:
No, it won't be a few cards out of the entire 40 card deck that make up the majority of the costs, the costs will be distributed throughout the deck. And those cards do not have to be "game winners".
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Oh I misread I thought you said a card could cost up to hundreds my bad. Tier 1 decks could potentially cost 100$ if we extrapolate from the average deck cost of a MTG tier 1 deck and proportionally price an artifact deck from their respective pack price difference but I hope not. Also an MTG deck is 75 cards, I'm not sure if artifact will have a sideboard but if not then a 40 card deck size is almost half of it too, something to consider.
 
Delusibeta

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Helacious said:
Unless the power distribution is such that there literally 1-3 cards that are instant win, there's zero chance of having cards worth 100$. The supply at 1$ per 12 cards is just too high. Cosmetics / alt art cards though? Very possible.
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Plus the fact that it's entirely digital, which means OP cards can be nerfed, and the pool of cards will be substantially smaller than what MTGO launched with. There is no need to buy a twenty year old card because in Artifact there's no such thing as a twenty year old card.

I think Totakeke has gotten into their head that card prices will operate in Artifact in the exact same manner as in Magic the Gathering. It won't: there are too few cards at launch, and booster packs are cheap, plus every player gets 120 cards from the word go. Outside of the launch window, I'll be very surprised if any individual card will cost more than 50 US cents.
 
Totakeke

Totakeke

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Oct 25, 2017
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Helacious said:
Oh I misread I thought you said a card could cost up to hundreds my bad. Tier 1 decks could potentially cost 100$ if we extrapolate from the average deck cost of a MTG tier 1 deck and proportionally price an artifact deck from their respective pack price difference but I hope not. Also an MTG deck is 75 cards, I'm not sure if artifact will have a sideboard but if not then a 40 card deck size is almost half of it too, something to consider.
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Yeah the base price of the packs and the rarity distribution will definitely have an effect. Like it doesn't make sense that if a card costs a lot more on average than the costs of the packs it'll take you to get that card. We also don't know the tournament formats. Like hearthstone tournaments are played with a multitude of decks.

Delusibeta said:
Plus the fact that it's entirely digital, which means OP cards can be nerfed, and the pool of cards will be substantially smaller than what MTGO launched with. There is no need to buy a twenty year old card because in Artifact there's no such thing as a twenty year old card.

I think Totakeke has gotten into their head that card prices will operate in Artifact in the exact same manner as in Magic the Gathering. It won't: there are too few cards at launch, and booster packs are cheap, plus every player gets 120 cards from the word go. Outside of the launch window, I'll be very surprised if any individual card will cost more than 50 US cents.
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For a healthy trading market there must be supply and demand. Why would I bother selling cards unless it's worth my time (or I'm botting)? I think you might have focused too much on people supplying cards to you instead. Or you think it's just mostly a bot economy and that's possible.
 
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