I noticed Bound is free, Im gonna check out the game to see this implementation
Bound is a really good/charming game. You are in for a treat!
I noticed Bound is free, Im gonna check out the game to see this implementation
For South Park: The Fractured But Whole the game is listed as "2160geo" I'm curious what that means?
Yes. that's right. It's a specific method that Sony refers to as "geometry rendering" (I don't know if that's a general term of art, or something specific to them). The idea is that the geometry of the actual meshes is rendered at a high resolution, while the surfaces are rendered at a lower resolution. You get edges, shapes, and object details as sharp as 4K, but requiring a lot less resources. The tradeoff is that textures, shaders, and other non-geometric art is not improved versus your standard res. Since surfaces take up a lot of the screen, this can be a pretty big loss. So generally the method has been used only sparingly, for remasters and for games that rely much more on solid colors and geometry than on textures for their look: Bound, RESOGUN, and so forth.I believe it means that the edges and geometry are 2160p. Someone correct me if this is wrong as I am not sure if thats correct
Thanks for the suggestion! There's actually already a couple sentences in the FAQ discussing screenshot needs, but I could theoretically make it even more explicit. I didn't do that before on the thought that too many regulations might scare off potential contributors ("what if I post it wrong?"). Maybe that's incorrect and some more clarity would entice people. I definitely could use a lot more contributions--most of my research time is spent just looking for screenshots.Could I suggest a short section (I'm talking a few sentences) of the post detailing some basic guidelines for submitting screenshots/videos etc?
For instance, preferred file formats (.png) and resolutions, hosting services, whatever else.
I feel as though including these things somewhere might help standardise some of the work being done by other members. It may also increase the number of submissions overall if people are more informed as to a preferred process.
Thanks for the info! This geometry rendering sounds really interestingYes. that's right. It's a specific method that Sony refers to as "geometry rendering" (I don't know if that's a general term of art, or something specific to them). The idea is that the geometry of the actual meshes is rendered at a high resolution, while the surfaces are rendered at a lower resolution. You get edges, shapes, and object details as sharp as 4K, but requiring a lot less resources. The tradeoff is that textures, shaders, and other non-geometric art is not improved versus your standard res. Since surfaces take up a lot of the screen, this can be a pretty big loss. So generally the method has been used only sparingly, for remasters and for games that rely much more on solid colors and geometry than on textures for their look: Bound, RESOGUN, and so forth.
South Park already fits that category, but it actually has an even better situation. The show itself renders a lot of surface detail using geometry. That is, instead of drawing buttons, belts, and designs on the characters as textures, those things are actually flat polygons in the character model. This game uses the same rigs as the show (though the last one didn't), so a lot of what would have been blurry texture detail in a typical "geometry rendered" game ends up actually 4K-sharp geometric detail in this one. Where true drawn textures are used, like for animating mouths, some spell effects, etc. you can see they're lower res.
Thanks for the suggestion! There's actually already a couple sentences in the FAQ discussing screenshot needs, but I could theoretically make it even more explicit. I didn't do that before on the thought that too many regulations might scare off potential contributors ("what if I post it wrong?"). Maybe that's incorrect and some more clarity would entice people. I definitely could use a lot more contributions--most of my research time is spent just looking for screenshots.
So what do people think? Would you be more likely to share shots if there was a how-to section in the OP?
Bound renders in 1080p with 8xMSAA, this gives full 4k edges with 2xMSAA.I noticed Bound is free, Im gonna check out the game to see this implementation
Good showing on the pro . The X looks slightly better with improved shadows and AO but these kind of differences are not drastic definitely not a Wolfenstein 2 situation.
MSAA is the best type of AA right? I know FXAA is like the standard I believeBound renders in 1080p with 8xMSAA, this gives full 4k edges with 2xMSAA.
Result may be bt different from the ID buffer version of geometric rendering. (1080p color with 4k Z and ID-buffer.)
There are many, many kinds of AA, and what's most effective can vary from situation to situation. Even within a single frame, varied content may require different approaches for the same effect. The current highest bar is going to be some version of supersampling (SSAA), where multiple samples are taken for each pixel of output. In theory, this set of methods improves all imagery, but it is very computationally expensive. There are different ways to do the same general thing, and image scientists will no doubt invent more.MSAA is the best type of AA right? I know FXAA is like the standard I believe
I see I didn't look at it that way. This is really informative. Idk if you played this but what AA did The Order have because I didn't see one jaggie on that gameThere are many, many kinds of AA, and what's most effective can vary from situation to situation. Even within a single frame, varied content may require different approaches for the same effect. The current highest bar is going to be some version of supersampling (SSAA), where multiple samples are taken for each pixel of output. In theory, this set of methods improves all imagery, but it is very computationally expensive. There are different ways to do the same general thing, and image scientists will no doubt invent more.
The fundamental facts of antialiasing actually run a bit counter to what people think. Generally, AA is conceived of as making a "clean", "sharp", or "crisp" image. In fact that's merely the subjective impression, not what's going on at the pixel scale. "Antialiasing" is a synonym for "blur". "Good AA" is not the sharpest image, it's the best balance of sharpness and blur. Exactly how much blur is "best" can be defined; particular rigorous parameters are what image scientists use to measure success of new algorithms, for example. But though every effort is made to match people's average perceptions, these definitions remain fundamentally arbitrary. Most folks can agree about severe cases, but as things improve, like with almost all graphical effects, the "correct" level of AA becomes a personal preference.
Wow I'm playing Bound right now it looks so good on the Pro with MSAABound renders in 1080p with 8xMSAA, this gives full 4k edges with 2xMSAA.
Result may be bt different from the ID buffer version of geometric rendering. (1080p color with 4k Z and ID-buffer.)
I usually play with headphones so i am not bothered by the noise but even without them my ps4 pro isn't loud . Only game that made it go loud was horizon ZD on the menuIs not that drastic on Wolfenstein either. According to VG Tech the game rarely hits 4K on its dynamic setup. Not that I care tho, as I'd rather play Wolf2 on a totally silent console like the X instead of a noisy mess like the Pro
Thanks for the suggestion! There's actually already a couple sentences in the FAQ discussing screenshot needs, but I could theoretically make it even more explicit. I didn't do that before on the thought that too many regulations might scare off potential contributors ("what if I post it wrong?"). Maybe that's incorrect and some more clarity would entice people. I definitely could use a lot more contributions--most of my research time is spent just looking for screenshots.
So what do people think? Would you be more likely to share shots if there was a how-to section in the OP?
I didn't play it, but the primary antialiasing method was high levels of MSAA. Note that the game also used motion blur, chromatic aberration, and film grain, all of which blur the image in one way or another. Since blur=AA, this further removed jaggies. Lighting bloom and atmospheric fog/haze also contributed in some places.I see I didn't look at it that way. This is really informative. Idk if you played this but what AA did The Order have because I didn't see one jaggie on that game
I actually haven't tested this, good catch. The main problem with imgur is the 1MB size limit, which means they add compression to almost everything uploaded, even JPEGs. While compression doesn't destroy the capacity for analysis, it does hurt it. And multiple passes of compression are worse. But I've done pixel counting off really compressed shots, so imgur or ResetEra (if it recompresses) aren't a death knell. Of course, PNG is preferable.Also, as a new member of this forum, how does the inbuilt image uploading and embedding compare to external services (like imgur)? Does Resetera automatically compress images posted here and, if so, is it perfectly adequate for this thread's purposes?
Nah they haven't yetHas NX Gamer or Digital Foundry ever done an analysis on Everybody's Golf?
Got the game and it looks great but would be cool to watch what the experts thought of its performance and 4k mode
AC Origins just got updated to 1.05 seems like it fixed the texturing issues and the LOD problem
I really like my PRO, yeah its not "proper" 4K but coming from 1020p PC and PS3 it felt like a huge leap, especially combined with my HDR Panasonic TV.
I did think though that when Destiny 2 launched it looked much more jaggy than the beta, then recently found out 4K and HDR upgrade is only coming via patch early December!!
Does anyone know if the beta was actually 4K (or thereabouts) compared to the full PS release?
IIRC DF did the Beta comparison and the BETA does not have Pro enhancements, but the retail release did. It does dynamic scaling to full 2160p using checker board rendering depending on the on-screen load.
In which case I am confused (see link). This seems to imply it is not part of the current PS4 PRO features.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-2-xbox-one-x-and-ps4-pro-patches-are-comin/1100-6454840/
1/4 Destiny 2's delivery on consoles is uniform in most areas, though PS4 Pro gets a few benefits. This includes 4K support, using checkerboard rendering and dynamic resolution scaling down to 3072x2160 where needed, to give it a visibly clearer image.
3/4 PS4 Pro's texture filtering gets a boost compared to PS4 and Xbox One, clearing up surfaces at tight angles like this.
4/4 A shot that shows three Pro advantages. Up above, the fine detail on the camouflage netting resolves clearly on the machine. Meanwhile, texture filtering is much cleaner across the dirt track, while in the background, PS4 Pro's level of detail settings are improved on the rock formations, compared to Xbox One. A regular PS4 shares this same setting for geometry draw distance.
In which case I am confused (see link). This seems to imply it is not part of the current PS4 PRO features.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-2-xbox-one-x-and-ps4-pro-patches-are-comin/1100-6454840/
AC Origins just got updated to 1.05 seems like it fixed the texturing issues and the LOD problem
I wonder if there were any framerate improvements for the cutscenes.
Also, did we ever get a final version pixel count for Battlefront 2?
PS4 is only getting HDR in December. It has had PS4 Pro support since the Beta via dynamic 4KCBR. The Bungie blog post is worded very poorly and makes it seem like the PS4 has no support.
The way it was worded was for people who are upgrading consoles this holiday season and probably so as not to mess up any arrangements with their marketing deal by only talking about Xbox One X. I would like to see them improve the res on the volumetric and DoF buffers because those are so low res and so common that they add a ton of aliasing.In which case I am confused (see link). This seems to imply it is not part of the current PS4 PRO features.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-2-xbox-one-x-and-ps4-pro-patches-are-comin/1100-6454840/
Wasn't Doom supposed to get a 1x and Pro patch at some point. does anyone know if this is still happening or has the boat left on that one
Tiny Firewatch note: though it doesn't run in full HDR on the Pro, we did move up to 10 bits/channel color to smooth out the banding seen in gradients in the sky and other places.
No one knows. Bethesda is the worst publisher at communication for technical details. Doom was on the XBX list but no developer has said a word about it. Same with HDR support for Evil Within 2 and Wolfenstein II. Both announced to have it over the summer, launched without it, no word on if it's coming.Wasn't Doom supposed to get a 1x and Pro patch at some point. does anyone know if this is still happening or has the boat left on that one
Yes, they've been steadily improving cut-scene frame rates over the patches. Scenes which ran at 19 FPS on 1.02 run in high 20's in 1.03 and things have gotten more smoother over the patches.
FYI, good time to bring it up. Doom is currently only $4.99 for purchase (pre owned) at all Redboxes.
Tiny Firewatch note: though it doesn't run in full HDR on the Pro, we did move up to 10 bits/channel color to smooth out the banding seen in gradients in the sky and other places.
Why doesn't the game downsample for 1080p displays on the Pro?
Thank you so much for explaining this, ja2ke! If only more devs implementing PRO support in their games were like you, and explained why their games didn't downsample on 1080p TV's (instead of just being radio silent on the issue), whatever the reason may be (enhanced draw distance and foliage is awesome!), there would be a lot less frustration for us 1080p PRO owners. So, once again, thank you, good sir! :)We run at native 1080p instead of downsampling because at 1080 native we were able to turn the draw distance and foliage LOD up.
Thanks for the response, I'll add it to my Pro downsampling thread!We run at native 1080p instead of downsampling because at 1080 native we were able to turn the draw distance and foliage LOD up.
Everybody's golf at that price is amazing, jealous. Anyway does anyone recommend Homefront for PS4Pro?
Everybody's golf at that price is amazing, jealous. Anyway does anyone recommend Homefront for PS4Pro?
Thank you so much for explaining this, ja2ke! If only more devs implementing PRO support in their games were like you, and explained why their games didn't downsample on 1080p TV's (instead of just being radio silent on the issue), whatever the reason may be (enhanced draw distance and foliage is awesome!), there would be a lot less frustration for us 1080p PRO owners. So, once again, thank you, good sir! :)
Thanks for the response, I'll add it to my Pro downsampling thread!
If you do patch the game again, please consider implementing a downsampling option for people who want it :)
Cheers! We did the port early in the really days of PS4 Pro dev and downsampling didn't even occur to us tbh. I'm happy we were able to offer a little fidelity boost at 1080 on Pro though!
I don't know how much you can say, but from what I'm gleaning from this, is that downsampling isn't automatically implemented in the PS4 OS, but instead requires devs to implement it themselves?
Are you able to elaborate on it at all, for example would it cost you performance to downsample to 1080p?
Yeah I don't think we did hopefully we find out soonI wonder if there were any framerate improvements for the cutscenes.
Also, did we ever get a final version pixel count for Battlefront 2?
All the Skyrim talk in the switch thread has got me wanting to play it again, I sold my copy prior to getting a pro, how bad is the pro framerate? Seen a variance of opinion online on this. I assume there is no chance of a patch at this stage.