Crash Bandicoot is a bad platformer

HellforLeather · Jul 30, 2018

Infinity Times Two said:
"It's the new thing. Players will have analog joysticks. Get it in".

Correction, there was no analog controller for the PS1 when Crash came out (at least not Crash 1)

I kind of agree with you. They definitely arent as good as I remember but I still think they are pretty solid games. The music and overall character of them goes a long way.

Sander VF · Jul 30, 2018

One has to kee in mind that:

Sliding off the platforms after landing towards the edge.
Wonky enemy hit boxes.
Very fast falls.

Are all attributable to the collection, rather than the original games.

SNRUB · Jul 30, 2018

Adam_Roman said:
I have no idea how the hell you were playing it but the controls are barely tank controls unless you stop every 2 inches. Yes you can stop in place to adjust but you take corners so tightly there's rarely a need for that, and that's only in Croc 1. Which even for all the first game's flaws, it still beats the shit out of Crash as a 3D platformer. Croc 2 just builds on that even more.

Crash wishes it were as fast or as fluid as Croc 2.

Well I've heard of some hot takes in this thread, but this certainly takes the cake.

Adam_Roman · Jul 30, 2018

SNRUB said:
Well I've heard of some hot takes in this thread, but this certainly takes the cake.

Implying you calling Croc and Croc 2 "literally bottom of the barrel shit-tier" isn't the edgiest hot-take in this thread

Marano · Jul 30, 2018

I liked the crash games a lot when I was a kid, especially ctr, I haven't played the nsane trilogy though, so I don't know how that holds up.

zoukka · Jul 30, 2018

Crash 1 ain't the best platformer of its day, but Croc is a steaming pile of croc-shit.

Yukinari · Jul 30, 2018

Sander VF said:
One has to kee in mind that:

Sliding off the platforms after landing towards the edge.

Wonky enemy hit boxes.

Very fast falls.

Are all attributable to the collection, rather than the original games.

As much as some people wanna deny it on this forum its true.

Vicarious not patching the issues in the trilogy is giving the games a worse perception.

Cant count how many times ive done jumps or seen others stream the game and slip off a platform.

SNRUB · Jul 30, 2018

zoukka said:
Crash 1 ain't the best platformer of its day, but Croc is a steaming pile of croc-shit.

^
At least someone gets it here.

Adamska · Jul 30, 2018

Sander VF said:
One has to kee in mind that:

Sliding off the platforms after landing towards the edge.

Wonky enemy hit boxes.

Very fast falls.

Are all attributable to the collection, rather than the original games.

I don't even think these issues are that egregious.

Sure, it kinda screws up with your muscle memory, but it's not like the game is that worse for requiring a little more finesse.

PeakPointMatrix · Jul 30, 2018

jamsy said:
Yeah I concur.

How is running towards the screen and not being able to see where the hell you're going a good idea?

I never understand these posts.

Like, have you ever actually played these "chase" levels? You have plenty of time to react, and very forgiving range with your jumps. In reality, they are no different from a side-scroller doing a forced run from left to right. Obstacles appear, and your reaction time is tested. The only difference is your direction.

psychedelic · Jul 30, 2018

I grew up playing Crash Bandicoot, and I think I'm going to subconsciously look past it's flaws if I try and analyze it today. I'm going to get the trilogy at some point and I'll enjoy it for the most part on the sole basis of nostalgia, I imagine.

Never played Mario and don't exactly feel inclined to play it after reading some of the comments here.

Deleted member 7756 · Jul 30, 2018

All 3D platformers are bad if you try and compare them to their 2D counterparts.

Even the big ones like Mario 64 and Galaxy. Good games, but they can't hold a candle to the likes of SMB3.

hussien-11 · Jul 30, 2018

psychedelic said:
Never played Mario and don't exactly feel inclined to play it after reading some of the comments here.

Try it for yourself, people here can be too negative sometimes.
it is very fun and full of creativity.

roguesquirrel · Jul 30, 2018

these threads are always wild cus so many people come out of the woodwork, like we really got people putting on the superman cape for croc

up next "the 2d sections in crash 1 WISHES they were ocean software's cheesy!"

Yukinari · Jul 30, 2018

roguesquirrel said:
these threads are always wild cus so many people come out of the woodwork, like we really got people putting on the superman cape for croc

up next "the 2d sections in crash 1 WISHES they were ocean entertainment's cheesy!"

"What can Crash learn from Plok?"

jamsy · Jul 30, 2018

PeakPointMatrix said:
I never understand these posts.

Like, have you ever actually played these "chase" levels? You have plenty of time to react, and very forgiving range with your jumps. In reality, they are no different from a side-scroller doing a forced run from left to right. Obstacles appear, and your reaction time is tested. The only difference is your direction.

Like, I have actually played these "chase" levels. Not the new remake, but the original Crash on the PS1.

There's a reason why there aren't many (or any) other platformers that borrowed this design element. And it's because it's a terrible idea. Judging depth of obstacles (ie chasms and the like) in 3D when you're going north/south is NOT the same as seeing them in 2D from left to right.

borges · Jul 30, 2018

Of course it is. I recall being accused of trolling when saying this in the old site, when ir was ps exclusive. I guess I can say the same thing without being suspiciuos now.

Nav · Jul 30, 2018

No lies detected, OP.

SNRUB · Jul 30, 2018

roguesquirrel said:
these threads are always wild cus so many people come out of the woodwork, like we really got people putting on the superman cape for croc

up next "the 2d sections in crash 1 WISHES they were ocean software's cheesy!"

Oh no, I'm pretty sure someone, probably in this very forum, thinks that the latest Bubsy game is better than Crash.

Deleted member 36622 · Jul 30, 2018

Crash being a bad platformer is one of those open secrets we all know but people gets hurted when you say it out loud cause millions of gamers grew with PS1 and Crash so those rose tinted glasses...

It's similar to mentioning that the Metroidvania genre is like 90% Metroid and 10% Castlevania, but again PS1 was very popular and people loved SotN...

Ellis said:
All 3D platformers are bad if you try and compare them to their 2D counterparts.

Even the big ones like Mario 64 and Galaxy. Good games, but they can't hold a candle to the likes of SMB3.

Odyssey is great, it's probably the best Mario for how good the controls are and the game destroys the NSMB games.

NotVeryFriendly · Jul 30, 2018

Can't agree personally. I find the first game to hold up really well. It requires a lot of performance but I never find it unfair. Once you get to grips with the mechanics it's not too challenging to rip through the levels quickly. The levels are designed well enough that the jumps and timing are challenging without being unfair. It's also much more of a platforming game than the likes of Spyro where it's mostly open planes to roam on with occasional platforming.

The second game I was less enthusiastic about having replayed it in the HD collection but I definitely don't think it's 'bad' or mediocre by any means, and I've yet to start the third. The original, to me, is definitely the strongest of the lot to me which is funny because before having replayed them I would have stated the release order was my order of preference.

Harald23 said:
Crash being a bad platformer is one of those open secrets we all know but people gets hurted when you say it out loud cause millions of gamers grew with PS1 and Crash so those rose tinted glasses....

Or maybe people just disagree? It sold well as a classic on the PS3 store being consistently in the top ten sellers for PS1 games, and the remaster also sold well. People have had ample opportunity to replay the game and determine if it was just 'rose tinted glasses' colouring people's view. This would be more convincing if the game hadn't only recently been re-released in a more modern presentation style, but there have been so many avenues for people to replay it that it is very unconvincing to put the praise down to nostalgia now.

Deleted member 9145 · Jul 30, 2018

Nintendo literally perfected platformers

outside of a few indie titles

Super Meat Boy comes to mind

nothing is as tight as Mario

nothing

whew

dead souls · Jul 30, 2018

Adamska said:
I don't even think these issues are that egregious.

Sure, it kinda screws up with your muscle memory, but it's not like the game is that worse for requiring a little more finesse.

They're dealbreakers to me. I gave up on the remastered versions pretty quickly after pulling out the old versions to make sure I wasn't misremembering how they played.

Deleted member 36622 · Jul 30, 2018

NotVeryFriendly said:
Or maybe people just disagree? It sold well as a classic on the PS3 store being consistently in the top ten sellers for PS1 games, and the remaster also sold well. People have had ample opportunity to replay the game and determine if it was just 'rose tinted glasses' colouring people's view. This would be more convincing if the game hadn't only recently been re-released in a more modern presentation style, but there have been so many avenues for people to replay it that it is very unconvincing to put the praise down to nostalgia now.

Cause they always fall in the same trap.

They buy the game because "Crash, i loved it when i was a kid" and then "Why Crash 1 is so bad?" (you can find so many of these on the internet), and the new remake reinforced that idea unfortunately because the new shittier controls.

Deleted member 11214 · Jul 30, 2018

Until I saw the sales numbers for the remasters I had always assumed that Crash was, like Battletoads, more of a meme or a nostalgia trip for a certain group of people rather than something apparently super popular despite it being objectively bad.

NotVeryFriendly · Jul 30, 2018

Harald23 said:
Cause they always fall in the same trap.

They buy the game because "Crash, i loved it when i was a kid" and then "Why Crash 1 is so bad?" (you can find so many of these on the internet), and the new remake reinforced that idea unfortunately because the new shittier controls.

Yes, there are certainly some people who feel that, but I see no evidence that it's a widespread opinion or is revered. If anything I would have said the majority opinion in the thread is largely the opposite of that with the amount of people outright disagreeing with the OP. Furthermore, it was a well-received remaster (where nostalgia is not a factor) by any metric with user scores (Steam scores, Metacritic) and reviewers (Metacritic) rating it highly, so I don't see why you'd think the bolded is even close to reality for anything but a relatively small minority of buyers. The re-release makes pretty evident your belief that it's liked primarily out of nostalgia is not reflective of reality.

EDIT: To back some of that up:
PS4 Metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/crash-bandicoot-n-sane-trilogy (80 critic score, 8.7 user score)
Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/731490/Crash_Bandicoot_N_Sane_Trilogy/ (9/10 average)

Zippo · Jul 30, 2018

Stouffers said:
I thought we all understood this. After M64, we realized just how bad things like Crash and Busby3D really were.

Speak for yourself.

Deleted member 36622 · Jul 30, 2018

NotVeryFriendly said:
Yes, there are certainly some people who feel that, but I see no evidence that it's a widespread opinion or is revered. If anything I would have said the majority opinion in the thread is largely the opposite of that with the amount of people outright disagreeing with the OP. Furthermore, it was a well-received remaster (where nostalgia is not a factor) by any metric with user scores (Steam scores, Metacritic) and reviewers (Metacritic) rating it highly, so I don't see why you'd think the bolded is even close to reality for anything but a relatively small minority of buyers. The re-release makes pretty evident your belief that it's liked primarily out of nostalgia is not reflective of reality.

EDIT: To back some of that up:
PS4 Metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/crash-bandicoot-n-sane-trilogy (80 critic score, 8.7 user score)
Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/731490/Crash_Bandicoot_N_Sane_Trilogy/ (9/10 average)

PS4 obviously Sony players and the rose-tinted glasses are there.

But then you look at PC metacritic and it's 76 critic score and 8.0 user score (78 and 8.5 on Switch, while 78 and 6.7 on Xbox One)

These are good scores but not as good as Sonic Mania or any Mario release really, so i think people noticed the game is still fun and nice but not that masterpiece that someone thought it was.

NotVeryFriendly · Jul 30, 2018

Harald23 said:
PS4 obviously Sony players and the rose-tinted glasses are there.

But then you look at PC metacritic and it's 76 critic score and 8.0 user score (78 and 8.5 on Switch, while 78 and 6.7 on Xbox One)

These are good scores but not as good as Sonic Mania or any Mario release really, so i think people noticed the game is still fun and nice but not that masterpiece that someone thought it was.

I don't see anything obvious about the bolded at all; it's a re-release of the game. People can assess the game they're playing in the present. The OP provides a very clear example of this. The PC score is high (8 on Metacritic, 9 on Steam) as is the Switch version. The Xbox user score is relatively low, but also has the fewest reviews of the lot.

You stated "Crash being a bad platformer is one of those open secrets". Have you any evidence to back up this as anything but your minority opinion?

EDIT: I'd also like to point out, the PS4 score is only slightly below (8.7 vs 8.9) Super Mario Odyssey so I'm really unconvinced by this. Nostalgia is also a factor in games like "Mario 3", "Sonic", and "Super Mario 64", but I'm not going to make the absurd claim that they're bad games and viewing them positively is solely nostalgia, just as it's absurd to claim the same about Crash, particularly when there is a very recent well-received release of the original game.

EDIT: Also, the user score for Crash on the Switch is similarly only just below Sonic Mania on the Switch (8.5 vs 8.8) so that's an odd example: http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/sonic-mania It's lower on PC, lower on PS4, and higher on Xbox 1.

TYRANITARR · Jul 30, 2018

This thread is a well known fact.

The people that love Crash love it because its their first platformer as a kid. Kids who grew up on Mario 3, Mario World, Mario 64, and Sonic know what's up. The kids who love Crash/Spyro have no reference for older games, so its simply their first games in the genre as kids and therefore they like it more. Of course, this isn't true for everyone (I'm sure there are gamers out there who think Crash 3 is better than Mario 64), but I'm speaking for about 75% of the Crash audience.

I think the same thing is true when speaking about the Mega Man X series. The people who like Classic series more, like it more because they played it first as kids. People who played the X series more, like it more. Except in this case, both are great series.

My younger brother's first plaftormer was Spyro the Dragon. Naturally, he thinks its better than any Mario game.

Napalm_Frank · Jul 30, 2018

adam prime said:
This thread is a well known fact.

The people that love Crash love it because its their first platformer as a kid. Kids who grew up on Mario 3, Mario World, Mario 64, and Sonic know what's up. The kids who love Crash/Spyro have no reference for older games, so its simply their first games in the genre as kids and therefore they like it more. Of course, this isn't true for everyone (I'm sure there are gamers out there who think Crash 3 is better than Mario 64), but I'm speaking for about 75% of the Crash audience.

I think the same thing is true when speaking about the Mega Man X series. The people who like Classic series more, like it more because they played it first as kids. People who played the X series more, like it more. Except in this case, both are great series.

My younger brother's first plaftormer was Spyro the Dragon. Naturally, he thinks its better than any Mario game.

I can assure you there are people who grew up with 2D Mario games as kids that loved Crash just as much. Case in point: me and pretty much all my friends growing up.

RedDevil · Jul 30, 2018

Crash is fine, but I've always been partial to Spyro of those PS1 games, more of my kind of platformer.

Infinity Times Two said:
"It's the new thing. Players will have analog joysticks. Get it in".

Huh, didn't the first DualShock come out after Crash 2 was released? Also it isn't really fair to compare it with a Donkey Kong Country game, they're two very different styles of platformers, like my own comparison with Spyro to some extent.

SNRUB · Jul 30, 2018

RedDevil said:
Crash is fine, but I've always been partial to Spyro of those PS1 games, more of my kind of platformer.

Huh, didn't the first DualShock come out after Crash 2 was released? Also it isn't really fair to compare it with a Donkey Kong Country game, they're two very different styles of platformers, like my own comparison with Spyro to some extent.

Yea, later versions of Crash 2 added analog control because of that.

spman2099 · Jul 30, 2018

I'm quite happy with how Crash Bandicoot has held up. Now, Sonic, on the other hand, was always a flawed platforming experience.

Onebadlion · Jul 30, 2018

Yeah, I agree OP. It is, and always has been, very average at best. It's hugely over-rated

Quinho · Jul 30, 2018

Crash bandicoot was never a good platformer.

Sapiens · Jul 30, 2018

Crash bandicoot was never anything but the graphics. And you can say this for a lot of ND games, unfortunately.

Crash · Jul 30, 2018

Sapiens said:
Crash bandicoot was never anything but the graphics. And you can say this for a lot of ND games, unfortunately.

Not only is Crash Bandicoot bad, but now a lot of Naughty Dog games are bad? Y'all got some crazy people in this thread smh.

Facubsf · Jul 30, 2018

You are a bad gamer.
Crash is an absolute masterpiece.

Amaterasu · Jul 30, 2018

I only played the first one once at a friends house, but I remember not caring for it at all. I had already been spoiled by Mario 64 at that point.

Toxi · Jul 30, 2018

God, I sometimes wonder how boring it must be being the sort of person who thinks the only good platformers are Mario games.

Deleted member 197 · Jul 30, 2018

I have to agree, i bought the remaster expecting to relive childhood memories but they were destroyed lol, found it an awfully bland platforming, it feels ridiculously stiff, maybe it was the 30fps on the switch that made it feel so stiff but still, yikes.

SuperBlank · Jul 30, 2018

Serene said:
You're a bad platformer

Came here to post this but it was first reply so I'll see myself out. :P

Toxi · Jul 30, 2018

psychedelic said:
Never played Mario and don't exactly feel inclined to play it after reading some of the comments here.

I mean most Mario games are good.

It's just the fans are annoying and it's gotten to the point where literally any 2D or 3D platformer will be shat on for how it compares to Mario, regardless of whether it was trying to emulate Mario in the first place.

PaulloDEC · Jul 30, 2018

FZZ said:
Nintendo literally perfected platformers

outside of a few indie titles

Super Meat Boy comes to mind

nothing is as tight as Mario

nothing

whew

Is this some new kind of haiku?

Doomguy Fieri · Jul 30, 2018

It's was trash then and is trash now. The worst of the Sony platformers, and none of them were that good.

SuperFakerBros · Jul 30, 2018

maluma baby! said:
I have to agree, i bought the remaster expecting to relive childhood memories but they were destroyed lol, found it an awfully bland platforming, it feels ridiculously stiff, maybe it was the 30fps on the switch that made it feel so stiff but still, yikes.

From what I know, the game is 30 FPS across all consoles so I don't think it was the system you were playing it on, unless you REALLY need to play them at 60 FPS, which you can on PC

MisterGrey3000 · Jul 30, 2018

saenima said:
Crash games sell well and are well liked.

'Crash is bad because Mario'

People clamor for Crash games for years.

'Crash is bad, nobody would buy it'

Crash comes out, sells like crazy and reviews well.

'Crash is bad, it's only nostalgia'

Here's a novel idea. Maybe you're just wrong.

The truth is strong with this one.
The ND era Crash games are classics, and CB2 and CB3:Warped in particular are FANTASTIC. I will admit though, Crash 1 is certainly wonky and uneven in a lot of areas. I can understand why it might not be everybody's cup of tea.

adam prime said:
...The people that love Crash love it because its their first platformer as a kid...

Yo, I grew up playing stuff like SMB3, Yoshi's Island, DKC, and Sonic The Hedghog-STH3&K.
Mario 64 was the first 3D platforming game that I ever played (I'm still nostalgic af about it)...and even still I preferred and still prefer every single Naughty Dog-era Crash game to Mario 64.
The Crash games had better graphical fidelity, art direction, character design, voice acting, storytelling and boss encounters than Mario 64. The music was also just as good, and better in some ways.
And most importantly...

hydrophilic attack said:
it's better than mario 64

at least it has more than like three actual platforming levels

...playing the ND Crash Games actually feels like I was playing the likes of SMB3, STH3, and DKC in 3D, Crash 1-3 actually felt like fucking PLATOFMRING games in a gen oversaturated with ponderous collectathons.
I mean...as hydrophilic attack points out, 64 is barely a platforming game outside of the three Bowser levels and that one volcano mission. Most of the game is about running around big safe circular areas and finding various micro challenges to complete. SM64 always sort of felt like a glorified experimental action-adventure tech demo that was haphazardly slapped with the "platformer" label and a Super Mario skin.
It's kind of lame as a platforming game.

Like the hat? · Jul 30, 2018

Crash was always just such a pain to play for me. The camera needed to be higher up. Also, any game that has stages where you run toward the screen.... Why? It's not fun. It's not fun to not know what you are running toward.

I don't think they are bad games, i just can't play them. I tried a lot back in the ps1 days and i could never even beat the first game. I've been playing video games since around 1987 but something about crash was just impossible for me.

Waggles · Jul 30, 2018

Well it can't be nostalgia or irrational fans. A series this old can only still exist because it's so great.

Right, sonic?

Right.

Crash Bandicoot is a bad platformer

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