Will Trump's administration ever be held responsible by its own supporters?

Is it stupidity? Is it ignorance?

Those 2.

And nope, they wont.

He threw his own country under the bus in front of Russia and still nothing.

They still haven't even owned up to the problems Bush caused.

They're divorced from the reality of basic cause and effect, and happier that way because magical thinking allows them to deny any responsibility for their own problems, much less the problems of their representatives. The worse the problems they create for themselves, the deeper they will retreat into a world of Alex Jones-like fantasy to insulate themselves from blame.

Of course not. Dishonesty is their game.

No, they love him.

Sword Familiar said:

No, they love him.

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This. They think he's trying his best to improve the country.

If Trump ever showed an ounce of humility or honesty, they might. He can only bring out the worst in humanity.

No because they love his bigotry. That's why they support him.

I think they will eventually turn on him, but they will pretend that they never liked him or just insist that we move on. That's what they did with Bush.

They begin every political line of thought with the conclusion that "Trump is great and I made a good decision by voting for him", and then they go backwards. They'll always bend over backwards through whatever nonsense logic they come up with to arrive at their faulty conclusion.

hurlex said:

I think they will eventually turn on him, but they will pretend that they never liked him or just insist that we move on. That's what they did with Bush.

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Or do what they did with Obama and pretend that the next Democrat president's literally the reincarnation of Satan. That way they avoid having to talk about their bad choice of president. I remember their dumb "Miss Me Yet? *picture of Bush* " conservative propaganda but that didn't last long when they realized literally nobody missed Dubya.

hurlex said:

I think they will eventually turn on him, but they will pretend that they never liked him or just insist that we move on. That's what they did with Bush.

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right? it's hard to believe they ever loved Bush Jr. and that he was ever not locked in his bathroom, stuck painting pictures of his bathtub feet.

Ctrl + F = Bush

I see my job here is done.

Donald Trump has taught his supporters that pretending as though you're sorry for how awful you are is no longer necessary.

lolno

Admitting you're wrong is a sign of weakness to them and they are never going to show that. Honestly at this point we really should stop giving a fuck about what they think or how we can convince them. It's a fool's errand. They're not even the majority.

No just like gwb

In my experience, most self proclaimed "Trump supporters" will dismiss any sort of criticism leveled at him as fake news or libtard bullshit. Trump = Good President has become an falsifiable position in a truly incredible way: By constantly claiming to be the victim of media persecution, anything negative the media says about him feeds into his victim narrative and thereby bolstering him and his supporter's warped world view.

I would say that to some degree supporters of any politician regardless of political alignment would be reluctant to level criticism at that politician, but the degree to which many Trump supporters take this is astounding. That isn't to say that someone can't be skeptical of news outlets (everyone should be imo) or even believe that the media may unfairly target Trump, but in my experience it's more likely that a person is "skeptical" of the news because they are critical of Trump, rather than because of some coherent underlying principle or philosophy.

As long as I have lived I have never seen a Republican turn on their white masters. They may lay low and not vote but they will never admit to you that they are wrong.

Are we ignoring every poll that has ever come out that Republicans largely approve of the job he's doing?

As long as Fox News and conservative radio are there to disseminate the excuses created by the president and Republican think tanks, there's nothing to change. It just is what it is.

it was a cult of personality since the day the first MAGA hat was sold, so no. they love Trump because he is Trump and does Trump things that make them love and worship him more.

i wonder what will happen when he dies, will these people start seeing his hairdo in toast?

Keep in mind, Nixon enjoyed solid support from Republicans until the very last days. The turning point for Nixon wasn't from his supporters but from Republicans in Congress.

What's different this time and unnerving is how Republicans in Congress have just completely capitulated to Trump and it's become almost a cult among certain segments. A lot of people predicted Trump would behave and be the disaster that he is. What's got people and especially historians surprised is how Republicans have basically betrayed everything about their party to pay fealty to Trump and how they're complicit in maintaining the alternate reality of lies and conspiracy theories.

I really think Fox News changed the game. It has allowed for Trump to have his insanity filtered and reformed into something coherent. It literally has become State TV where Trump is presented as one of the greatest Presidents ever. Add in the extensive reach Fox News has, it's no wonder Trump has such high approval ratings among Republicans.

Things will only change when reality starts to bite Republican voters that not even Fox News can spin out of. With the Trade War when people actually start seeing rising prices at the consumer level, less business to business opportunities, and job loss, then it won't matter what Hannity says, more Republican voters will start blaming the people in power. This is why there was the sudden 12 billion farm bail-out. I also think the GOP is under-estimating the effect of rising healthcare costs. Democrats who exploit this will catch a lot of Republicans off-guard in the midterms.

Even though the last 18 months under Trump has felt like 3 years, it's only been 18 months. We're only now starting to hit the mark where his policies are beginning to affect everyday Americans. Not everyone is clued in on the daily political news grind like a lot of people here. They only bother to start paying attention once it clearly starts affecting their pocket book. It may not be until 2019 or 2020 when Trump's support among Republicans starts to noticeably erode when not even Hannity can spin the facts on the ground.

When someone even more racist comes along, to convince them that the failure in their demigod was that he showed an ounce of mercy to the others.

This will of course be predicated on messaging.

In general, people don't like to admit they are idiots.

People choose politics like they choose a sport team. Just cause they're losing currently, or they've been found using drugs or a player is convicted of domestic abuse doesn't mean you give up on them

lenovox1 said:

Are we ignoring every poll that has ever come out that Republicans largely approve of the job he's doing?

As long as Fox News and conservative radio are there to disseminate the excuses created by the president and Republican think tanks, there's nothing to change. It just is what it is.

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In a generation where honest news is readily available, it's astounding how certain groups can still be easily conned. Fox News, the GOP and the president have done a great job of disinformation and blurring the lines of fact and fiction.

I feel like his supporters are afraid of change, and him saying he's bringing things "back to the good old days" means that they must ignore everything else he does so that he can bring back the old days. Nothing else matters to them than restoring their worldview. They've been told how to see the world and don't want to have to fathom not having a guiding hand for every step they take. They want to be told how to live, what makes them successful, what makes your life productive, what it means to feel fulfilled, etc. They don't want to start suggesting the hand guiding them might not actually be working in their favor.

They don't care about policy, so long as the evil democratic party are not in charge.

It happens everywhere. In the UK Labour policies always poll better than Conservative ones in "blind polls" (Ones where they do not know the party behind the policy) but then when people are told they're Labour policies out come the excuses why they won't vote for them.

Same applies here. The democrats could literally favour every policy these guys like and they would still vote against everything in their interest if they don't have an R next to the ticket.

It's not a Trump thing, more of a 40% of the US who can't bear to vote for anyone other than "their" party.

Mental gymnastics is their Olympic sports. And they do not care so long as they are winning.

There's literally a recent thread here about Nixon's approval rating hovered at around 20% after Water Gate and it's aftermath. No is the answer, especially how expansive and evoled right-wing media has become.

If he campaigned on lies and deception and his base bought that, why would they escape that game suddenly?

No these people perform mental gymnastics for a living.

Coyote Starrk said:

Is it stupidity? Is it ignorance? Is it blind faith? Or do these people know its all going to shit, but they simply refuse to admit it?

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It's politics.

Strike said:

lolno

Admitting you're wrong is a sign of weakness to them and they are never going to show that. Honestly at this point we really should stop giving a fuck about what they think or how we can convince them. It's a fool's errand. They're not even the majority.

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Yeah, I honestly don't get replies that say "but they'll defend him anyway," particularly in the context of Mueller's investigation. Who gives a shit what they think?

There has been reporting of examples of Trump voters renouncing their support when they are hit with a direct and personal tragedy. For example, a close family member being deported, personal or family health crisis due to health care costs they can't cover, or losing their job or business outright. It isn't much, and it's a shame reality has to cut people off at the knees before they become self aware, but it is happening at least.

Also, its "easy" to say you are willing to "take one for America" when your farm revenues have only been down for a month or two at this point. By the time such people have spent two years under immense financial pressure and faced ongoing hardship, they'll probably be singing a different tune.

Trump's base will idolize him as the "best president ever" for the rest of their lifes. No matter how disgraceful his fall may be. Hell, if Trump lands in jail they will think of him as some kind of martyr. Such is the nature of a personality cult.

You know at this stage I'm scratching my head. Even the most die hard supporters should have disowned him after some of the shit hes done.

MarioW said:

There has been reporting of examples of Trump voters renouncing their support when they are hit with a direct and personal tragedy. For example, a close family member being deported, personal or family health crisis due to health care costs they can't cover, or losing their job or business outright. It isn't much, and it's a shame reality has to cut people off at the knees before they become self aware, but it is happening at least.

Also, its "easy" to say you are willing to "take one for America" when your farm revenues have only been down for a month or two at this point. By the time such people have spent two years under immense financial pressure and faced ongoing hardship, they'll probably be singing a different tune.

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Yeah, the same tune farmers in the UK sing after the Conservative party ignores them for years on end despite being their most loyal voters.

"It'll be worse under Labour".

Never underestimate the sheer bloody mindedness of people when it comes to this sort of thing.

Stop It said:

Yeah, the same tune farmers in the UK sing after the Conservative party ignores them for years on end despite being their most loyal voters.

"It'll be worse under Labour".

Never underestimate the sheer bloody mindedness of people when it comes to this sort of thing.

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They might not reject conservatism and Republicans and embrace the Democrats, but they just might throw Trump under the bus when it comes to assigning blame, especially if a convenient excuse like him being compromised by Russia turns out to be a "proven" thing.

Of course, I'm sure some will happily ride their Trump vote all the into their own grave.

Rangerx said:

You know at this stage I'm scratching my head. Even the most die hard supporters should have disowned him after some of the shit hes done.

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They want him to do the shit he's done.

MarioW said:

They might not reject conservatism and Republicans and embrace the Democrats, but they just might throw Trump under the bus when it comes to assigning blame, especially if a convenient excuse like him being compromised by Russia turns out to be a "proven" thing.

Of course, I'm sure some will happily ride their Trump vote all the into their own grave.

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Oh yeah if 2020 comes to a primary challenge I could easily see Trump being thrown under the bus.

He'll fail in the eyes of his supporters if:

He sends US troops to another war in the Middle East
He grants amnesty to X Million people
He backs down on the Border Wall

\With the Wall, responsibility can still fall elsewhere if it can be perceived that progress on it is obstructed or funds not provided.

Trump supporters don't really have big reasons to disavow him, but they can grind their teeth at prominent Republicans who are dragging their feet

His absolute base is generally made up of the dumbest, most radicalized people possible. It's very unlikely that they'd stop believing his narrative and instead believe the media. Whatever he says must be true in their worldview.

He could be hauled away in chains with a mountain of evidence to support his conviction, with universal support for his impeachment from both sides, and there'd be a sizable contingent of degenerates talking about how the "deep state got him!" and calling for civil war.

They'll turn on Trump like they turned on Bush, and they'll pretend that they never supported him.