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Chackan

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,097
I love David Lynch and all his work (haven't seen the Straight Story, though.

Twin Peaks (S1, S2 and Fire Walk With Me) is in a very special place in my heart.

Season 3 is more "Lynch" than S1 and S2, that's for sure. S1\2 are both much more straightforward and easy to understand. Season 3 is like Lynch unleashed lol

That being said, I would prefer for it to be more contained. Loved it for what it is and it left me wanting a Season 4 really bad, though!
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,031
I love how divisive it is. Someone who haven't seen this season and read this thread would have a hard time to get a notion of what it is like.

I loved it myself. It's not flawless, but it's easily the most original and unpredictable thing I've seen for years. Adding to that, the general high quality throughout made it something to be savored. I should add that I have total respect for anyone who it didn't click with. However, I do get a little sad that so many people seem to accuse Lynch of masturbating away the whole budget, or imply that it's some kind of scam. Just because something is not for you doesn't mean it's bad. The emperor has clothes, you just dont like the particular style, that's all.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,323
Don't like it is just the critics who adored Dougie and Kyle's performance of him.

Check out pretty much every Twin Peaks forum out or the Twin Peaks Reddit.

I'd say EASILY over 90% of Twin Peaks fans adored the Dougie stuff.
You get a sort of selection bias with subreddits though. With any kind of fandom.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
You get a sort of selection bias with subreddits though. With any kind of fandom.
Yeah, but I was being selective in that that is the hardcore fandom. The post made it seem like fans didnt like it but critics did, when you can't find a single active Twin Peaks fan community online who doesn't mostly embrace Dougie.
 
Oct 27, 2017
767
It's not the third season either, they only really call it "Twin Peaks." It's its own thing.

I'm sure I read or watched an interview in which one of them (I think David Lynch) referred to it as season three, and when announcing the Blu-Ray, Lynch posted this version of the artwork (of which I recall he was the only source):

36222aa9-db25-4c14-b7es8j.jpeg


Of course, that became the hitherto unseen 'A Limited Event Series' so absent the interview that I now cannot find, it's difficult to say with certainty, other than that The Return subtitle was not a product of either creator.
 

Addi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,206
I can understand dismissing a tv critic or two if they don't do their job well, but when it sits at 94% on Rotten Tomato, I'm getting a "everybody is wrong but me"-vibe.
 

Gronnd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
35
The post made it seem like fans didnt like it but critics did, when you can't find a single active Twin Peaks fan community online who doesn't mostly embrace Dougie.

There is a huge difference between liking the character and praising MacLachan's portrayal of said character to high heaven.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,323
I can understand dismissing a tv critic or two if they don't do their job well, but when it sits at 94% on Rotten Tomato, I'm getting a "everybody is wrong but me"-vibe.

If everyone felt and thought the same thing it would be boring. Aggregate scoring is a boring way to measure this stuff.

Most of Lynch's stuff is divisive anyway. Listen to Ebert talk about Blue Velvet. Or read any review of Lost Highway.

FWWM was slammed at release and still is but there's some who think it's this misunderstood horror masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrpAyb438Sc

(Kermode also has good videos on rotten tomatoes aggregation )

Closest thing to any kind of consensus with Lynch is Mulholland Dr.


Anyway here's a contrarian viewpoint on TP season 3: http://time.com/4926668/twin-peaks-finale-review/

I like this bit

It was the sort of thing that never could have aired on network TV, just as the rest of this bonkers, alternately beauteous and maddening, season of television never could have. Sometimes, limits to test spur greatness. ABC, leaning into the sort of network dramas that can be understood simply by reading their logline, would never have revived Twin Peaks. But I'd have loved to see that version.
 
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ARC-2R

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
769
As a Twin Peaks fan, Dougie is the worst fucking garbage I've ever seen in a TV show. To believe the critics, it takes a master actor to shuffle around for 15 episodes and say "coffeeee?" Fucking please...

That being said, there was quite a bit of good in the Return, albeit in between a lot of bad.

Pretty Much, I can't help but feel it was a gigantic FU to all the Cooper fans, and a colossal waste of time. I still liked the return, and found several great moments in it, but so much wasted time on every tedious, endless feeling slog of a Dougie scene makes me say overall it's not really up to par with the first 2 seasons. It lost much of the charm of Twin Peaks.
 

Courage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,978
NYC
I think Twin Peaks season one gets way too much praise considering the fact that all the greatest episodes of the OG show are in season 2. Not to mention Fire Walk With Me, without which, Twin Peaks would be nothing.
I agree with this, Season 1 is just the most consistent season which is why it's the favorite. Season 2 is uneven af, but the highs are high and the lows are low.

And yes, FWWM is Twin Peaks at its most depressing best.
 

Addi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,206
If everyone felt and thought the same thing it would be boring. Aggregate scoring is a boring way to measure this stuff.

Most of Lynch's stuff is divisive anyway. Listen to Ebert talk about Blue Velvet. Or read any review of Lost Highway.

FWWM was slammed at release and still is but there's some who think it's this misunderstood horror masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrpAyb438Sc

(Kermode also has good videos on rotten tomatoes aggregation )

Closest thing to any kind of consensus with Lynch is Mulholland Dr.


Anyway here's a contrarian viewpoint on TP season 3: http://time.com/4926668/twin-peaks-finale-review/

I like this bit

Oh, I completely agree on review aggregates, I just don't buy some of the arguments in this thread that tv critics don't know shit and that The Return was the emperors new clothes nobody dared to say anything against. My point is simply that if 94% of critics don't think it's bad, there's a big probability it's not utter garbage. People are quick to dismiss something as bad because they didn't like it.
 

dead souls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,317
Why is everybody quoting the RT number like it's gospel? Most of the reviews that comprise it were written after only seeing the first 2-4 episodes.
 

Huntersknoll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,660
I love David Lynch and all his work (haven't seen the Straight Story, though.

Twin Peaks (S1, S2 and Fire Walk With Me) is in a very special place in my heart.

Season 3 is more "Lynch" than S1 and S2, that's for sure. S1\2 are both much more straightforward and easy to understand. Season 3 is like Lynch unleashed lol

That being said, I would prefer for it to be more contained. Loved it for what it is and it left me wanting a Season 4 really bad, though!

That is what I thought. I loved it but I love when Lynch does super weird stuff that makes me scratch my head. It isn't an easy watch and isn't for everyone.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
People who want a season 4 and think Lynch won't just do the same thing again are crazy. He's been adamant that he won't give the story closure.

Never forget: He was against ever revealing the identity of Laura's killer. The best scene in the series, "It is happening again," would have never happened if Lynch had his way.
 

Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,835
It was frustrating at times and I have no desire to ever watch it again, but the highest highs stick in my memory and I still regularly think about it.

Plus, it introduced me to cool bands like The Chromatics.
 

Net_Wrecker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,734
I'd just like to point out that you're saying this in a thread about Twin Peaks, the show whose troubled second season was redeemed by Lynch throwing out most of its finale's screenplay and replacing it with an entirely unscripted experiment that ended up keeping the show relevant for over two decades.

Was the finale unscripted? I was under the impression that Lynch re-wrote parts of it, particularly the red room stuff which the writers had no idea what to do with, which is entirely different to straight up loose and wild filmmaking we see in Inland Empire.

In any case I don't even know what we're discussing anymore. I like Twin Peaks S3, I don't like Inland Empire. Peace be with you, Flipyap.
 

Chackan

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,097
People who want a season 4 and think Lynch won't just do the same thing again are crazy. He's been adamant that he won't give the story closure.

Never forget: He was against ever revealing the identity of Laura's killer. The best scene in the series, "It is happening again," would have never happened if Lynch had his way.

True, that revelation was one of the most high points on TV, in my opinion.

I would love a 4th season just to see more Twin Peaks, not exactly to have any closure! I think it's a really amazing cult series that deserve more.
 

wow_bob_wow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
213
Was the finale unscripted? I was under the impression that Lynch re-wrote parts of it, particularly the red room stuff which the writers had no idea what to do with, which is entirely different to straight up loose and wild filmmaking we see in Inland Empire.

Mark Frost & company delivered a script where the Black Lodge is an "upside down" version of the Great Northern and Lynch thought it didn't match the tone of the show so reworked a lot of that. One bit in the upside down Black Lodge had Killer BOB show up as a dentist. Just.. no. But that's where the "brush my teeth" gag originated so at least it gave us that moment.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
So uh, I have some questions...
(I just watched Episode 5)

How and when was it revealed that Dougie is a clone? Everyone in the old country OT was saying that, but I must have missed it...

How did Coop not get his proper body back?

If this gets answered later, feel free to ignore.
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
So uh, I have some questions...
(I just watched Episode 5)

How and when was it revealed that Dougie is a clone? Everyone in the old country OT was saying that, but I must have missed it...

How did Coop not get his proper body back?

If this gets answered later, feel free to ignore.
Only the original Dougie, the chubby one, is a "clone." That was covered in Part 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTEAygQBadY).
You might have misunderstood some of those old posts because people tend to call both Dougies "Dougie."
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,851
Japan
So I'm watching this now and the line delivery is bizarre. I'm not saying it sounds like it, but the experience feels similar to playing the original Resident Evil.

I'd be okay with it being different from the original if anyone seemed like they were beings from planet earth, but ...
 

Mariachi507

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,266
So I'm watching this now and the line delivery is bizarre. I'm not saying it sounds like it, but the experience feels similar to playing the original Resident Evil.

I'd be okay with it being different from the original if anyone seemed like they were beings from planet earth, but ...

I got that vibe during episode 1 at times(scenes with Tracy) it reminded me of Blue Velvet. It's not like that with the entire series. I mean, Lynch definitely has a unique cadence thoughout his work with dialogue, but it doesn't stick out as much through most of the series, or maybe I just got used to it.
 

yepyepyep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
703
I thought it was great. It is definitely not flawless, there are plot lines and characters that go absolutely nowhere.

But I don't know, some of the flaws add to the appeal? Like some scenes, like the extras bad acting when the kid gets run over kind of adds to the weird strangeness of it all. I think I enjoyed it primarily because it offered a television experience that is utterly unique compared to what is out there. I love slow cinema as well, Tsai Ming-Liang, Bela Tarr, Chantal Akerman, so for me the really slow pacing was quite enjoyable.

I can understand people not liking the season, it definitely a marmite sort of thing.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,061
Bump - didn't think this warranted posting a new LTTP thread.

I'll get in semi early to say the episode 8 circle jerk is overblown. It's interesting from a cinematography angle or whatever, but it's incredibly boring to watch and there's just absolutely no value to me in "crazy things" happening for the sake of it. The last little part of the episode is fantastic though, and the pure atmosphere actually comes through there. It's one of my favorite parts of the season.

I just finished Season 3 and it's interesting to come in here and see the praise that episode 8 got. Episode 8 was by far my least favorite episode. I can appreciate those who can see/appreciate the beauty in it, but I just found so much of it to be tedious and slow. The last 10-15 minutes of it are interesting, but much of the rest of it was insufferable for me.

I only explored Twin Peaks S1-3 recently. I enjoyed season 1 and even much of season 2, despite finding the story a bit aimless, shiftless, and almost descending into full sitcom territory at times after the resolution of the Laura Palmer storyline. I really disliked episodes 1 and 2 of the new season, but I actually enjoyed much of this season overall. I think whoever said that it has some of the best and worst parts of TV is pretty accurate.

I normally don't care for fan edits, but I feel like I'd love a fan edit of S3 that excised much of the musical performances (did we really need to see Nine Inch Nails perform an entire song in episode 8?), much of the tedious shot-reaction shot aspects of it, and simply just made it a more efficient storytelling experience. I get that people who love this season may love the pacing and inclusion of these things, but I just found it to come across as bloated and vacuous at times.

I felt like Kyle McLachlan was mostly wasted between the affable, but largely uninteresting Dougie character, and the borderline comical badass nature of evil Cooper. Without him firing on all cylinders as regular Dale Cooper, it just feels like there's an emotional anchor missing in much of this season that is only ever filled by the original Twin Peaks characters, who often aren't what the story is focusing on. And I often found the supernatural plot elements to get in the way of the core emotional story in certain aspects.

I didn't hate this season as much as I expected to. I have two friends who are big David Lynch fans who excoriated this season when they told me about it. As someone who likes Lynch, but doesn't love him, I was surprised by how much I liked certain aspects of this story. But I think many of the aspects I liked pertained to the humor and affability of certain characters, plus the inclusion of some very moving story beats and arcs like with Bobby and Ed and Norma. All the black lodge moments and the black and white segments did very little for me.
 

Taki

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,308
I can't tell if season 3 is bad or brilliant.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
The first few episodes were actually interesting so I would drop it quick if I were you OP. It gets much worse later on...
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
I normally don't care for fan edits, but I feel like I'd love a fan edit of S3 that excised much of the musical performances (did we really need to see Nine Inch Nails perform an entire song in episode 8?)
I think we did, yeah. If there's any musical performance that added something worthwhile to the show, it's the The Nine Inch Nails one.
That song feels so oppressive and overwhelming, it's like a noise bomb designed to tear out a chapter break in the first act of that episode. Even before the weirdness starts, by the time the song is done, the show already feels somehow changed by that intermission.
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
I loved Season 1 and the good parts of Season 2 because I enjoyed the grounded narrative and characters with its nice sprinkling of Lynchian madness. But Season 3 just being 18 hours of pure grain Lynch fever dream is not for me. At all.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,401
I just can't understand the logic of "Let's continue a beloved series after 25 years, oh but let's make it completely different with almost nothing in common with the old series."

Either properly continue something, or leave it dead and make something completely original.
 

nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,397
I normally don't care for fan edits, but I feel like I'd love a fan edit of S3 that excised much of the musical performances (did we really need to see Nine Inch Nails perform an entire song in episode 8?), much of the tedious shot-reaction shot aspects of it, and simply just made it a more efficient storytelling experience. I get that people who love this season may love the pacing and inclusion of these things, but I just found it to come across as bloated and vacuous at times.
The Nine Inch Nails performance was one of the few performances I thought actually worked. But I would definitely love an edit that removes most of the musical acts. For me they were the worst part of the show, well that and Chrysta Bell.
 

falcondoc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,204
The most important television to come out in decades. Visionary stuff. Enough praise cannot be heaped upon it even if not perfect.
 

hyuckwut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
806
Im ready to burn through everything Lynch again after starting his memoir, 'Room to Dream'. It's great.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
I just can't understand the logic of "Let's continue a beloved series after 25 years, oh but let's make it completely different with almost nothing in common with the old series."

Either properly continue something, or leave it dead and make something completely original.

The whole theme of the new season is "you can never go back home".

Life goes on, things change, and you need to accept it.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
Birmingham, UK
I think we did, yeah. If there's any musical performance that added something worthwhile to the show, it's the The Nine Inch Nails one.
That song feels so oppressive and overwhelming, it's like a noise bomb designed to tear out a chapter break in the first act of that episode. Even before the weirdness starts, by the time the song is done, the show already feels somehow changed by that intermission.

It's subjective though. The NIN performance was the first moment where the show left me pissed off rather than intrigued. I don't like NIN much, and their song made me feel nothing other than bored. When followed by pretty much half an hour of tedium (said it before and I'll say it again, abstract wankery and slow special effects shots do not impress me), the entire thing felt like Lynch jerking off with a band that he likes. The second half of the episode was effective and damn creepy, but I'm firmly in the camp that views a lot of ep.8 as overrated nonsense.
 
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NickHyde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
797
It has some great moments, but unfortunately it was too long for its own good and the style is all over the place due to the insufficent budget. Dougie story would have worked really well as a stand alone movie imho (not set in the TP universe). Like others have said it's worth watching up to the eight episode because it's one of the most unique ever made. I liked the finale so much that I still think about it to this day though, really haunting stuff.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,061
I think we did, yeah. If there's any musical performance that added something worthwhile to the show, it's the The Nine Inch Nails one.
That song feels so oppressive and overwhelming, it's like a noise bomb designed to tear out a chapter break in the first act of that episode. Even before the weirdness starts, by the time the song is done, the show already feels somehow changed by that intermission.

Obviously, to each his own. I don't have any issues with the Nine Inch Nails song itself. While I'm not the biggest NIN fan, I thought the song was just fine. But the show is something that you see in addition to something you hear. If you want to have an intermission that breaks up the two halves of that episode, fine. But showing me a concert video of Nine Inch Nails didn't set some intriguing tone for what was to follow for me.

The sequence with the bomb going off in black and white was well done and effective and that alone could have signaled the shift of what was to follow. Watching Trent Reznor belt into a microphone for 6 minutes - regardless of the sonic quality of the music - is visually dull. For a season that has a ton of wackadoo visual motifs at play, it also has a lot of dull imagery by way of the band performances.

It's subjective though. The NIN performance was the first moment where the show left me pissed off rather than intrigued. I don't like NIN much, and their song made me feel nothing other than bored. When followed by pretty much half an hour of tedium (said it before and I'll say it again, abstract wankery and slow special effects shots do not impress me), the entire thing felt like Lynch jerking off with a band that he likes. The second half of the episode was effective and damn creepy, but I'm firmly in the camp that views a lot of ep.8 as overrated nonsense.

Co-signed. The stuff towards the end with the "You gotta light?" and showing all the townspeople fall under the spell was intriguing and engrossing. As was the long shot of the bomb going off immediately after the start of the second half of the episode. But all the shots of abstract space and fire playing normally, then rewinding, then looping, then playing normally again did nothing for me. Nor did the stuff with the Giant.

But clearly it had an impact on some of the viewers, so regardless of how I feel about it I can't say that it was pointless, I guess.