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FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,506
Southern California
Of course they are. Where's the justice for their sexual predations?

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/07/c...nco-me-too-men-back-at-work-metoo-1201988069/

As the movement continues, different post-scandal fates have started to emerge. As a Vox headline noted this week, "Mel Gibson has set the blueprint for a #MeToo comeback. Expect other men to follow it." The article delved into Gibson's behavior (remember when Oksana Grigorieva said he knocked out her teeth?), with key strategies for returning to the public eye (don't discuss the incident, let your friends do the talking, let time pass, and return in a mode slightly different than the one for which you were known).

Of course they got away with assaulting women. I wish I could say I was fucking surprised.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
I wish they wouldn't continue to use that occasion with the Canadian reporter when discussing Affleck. Burton's account is real but the bit about him groping the reporter was a bit that the reporter was in on.

https://www.etonline.com/real-story...y-interview-canadian-reporter-exclusive-89036

Regardless of if you think Affleck is still slime for his past actions with Burton, it hurts your site's credibility when you bring up a debunked accusation in your article.
 

Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
That one article is talking about Mel Gibson making a comeback.

Guy was practically ostracized from all of Hollywood for a decade. At what point are people allowed to make amends and try to come back?
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
That one article is talking about Mel Gibson making a comeback.

Guy was practically ostracized from all of Hollywood for a decade. At what point are people allowed to make amends and try to come back?

Aren't you the dude who has been arguing in that Escapist thread about how you are tired of politics in games and media and shit

why am I not surprised to see you stumping for Gibson to return to hollywood, when the dude drips politics from all his projects?
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
Crazy how in this time of heightened public awareness I still hadn't heard of a couple of these.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,190
UK
I didn't know about the Lars von Trier accusations of bullying and harassment but the degrading comments is not very surprising considering how he comes across behind the scenes.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
To nobody's surprise, powerful men in Hollywood are given unlimited more chances to make money even after they cause temporary costs.

The only way these people stay out of the business is if we continue to boycott them and it continues to be unprofitable to feature them.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Not that any of what these men did was excusable, but on some level I think it does make sense in the sense that not all of their infractions were on the same level of those such as Harvey Weinstein and other high level offenders and abusers.
I think the question is what is the proportional punishment in each of these cases?

This is obviously a very heated subject and I don't want to mean any offense to anyone I just personally have a hard time seeing some of these cases as the same thing.
 

Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
That one article is talking about Mel Gibson making a comeback.

Guy was practically ostracized from all of Hollywood for a decade. At what point are people allowed to make amends and try to come back?

He called Winona Ryder an "oven-dodger" because of her Jewish heritage.

His "amends" were very half-assed. After his drunken run-in with the police, he had a relationship with a woman who he physically and verbally abused. And there's an audio recording of him shouting that she is going to be "raped by a pack of n-words" because of the way she was dressed.

But goddamn, the son of a bitch knows story structure.
 

hodayathink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,055
For as much as the AD crew defended Tambor, the Arrested Development stuff was in can before the Transparent news came out, as far as I know, and he hasn't actually acted in anything since. He's not really back at work, they just released the stuff they already shot, which was gonna happen regardless.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
The thing with Gibson is that whatever he says in his apologies, this is an obvious pattern of behavior for him. It doesn't seem like he's interested in changing, just in keeping a lid on it while cameras are around. In the end that's not good for anyone, least of all the target of his next drunken rant.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
latest
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
That one article is talking about Mel Gibson making a comeback.

Guy was practically ostracized from all of Hollywood for a decade. At what point are people allowed to make amends and try to come back?
Did he ever actually apologise? I don't recall having seen him actually apologise.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
I'm not surprised at all, while the #MeToo movement was a sign that things are slowly shifting, we're still very, very far away from reaching any large-scale social change.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
Did he ever actually apologise? I don't recall having seen him actually apologise.

"The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world!" the Hollywood star spouted at the time, according to the 2006 arrest report.

"It was an unfortunate incident," Gibson said on "Playback" when asked about the fact that there are many who feel they can no longer support him or his work. "I was loaded and angry and arrested. I was recorded illegally by an unscrupulous police officer who was never prosecuted for that crime. And then it was made public by him for profit, and by members of — we'll call it the press. So, not fair. I guess as who I am, I'm not allowed to have a nervous breakdown, ever."

Lol at "by members of — we'll call it the press."
 
Oct 27, 2017
995
I wish they wouldn't continue to use that occasion with the Canadian reporter when discussing Affleck. Burton's account is real but the bit about him groping the reporter was a bit that the reporter was in on.

https://www.etonline.com/real-story...y-interview-canadian-reporter-exclusive-89036

Regardless of if you think Affleck is still slime for his past actions with Burton, it hurts your site's credibility when you bring up a debunked accusation in your article.

I'll just add briefly that in addition to Burton, Annamarie Tendler has publicly expressed her interest in receiving an apology from Affleck, as discussed in a previous thread: one / two
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
What's Val Kilmer's situation have to do with the Me Too movement? Sounds like simple assault & battery.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
I'll just add briefly that in addition to Burton, Annamarie Tendler has publicly expressed her interest in receiving an apology from Affleck, as discussed in a previous thread: one / two


I'd never heard of this one which is crazy because I'm a huge John Mulaney fan. Just briefly looking online I don't see Affleck even acknowledge it. Did people just not ask him?
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,190
Chloe Dykstra chose not to cooperate with the investigation. Without her there's not much they were likely to find.

Tough to see any practical conclusion to the matter in this case. Once an accusation is made and an investigation comes to fruition because of it, no acceptable system of justice would leave a defendant in purgatory as a result of a key witness refusing to come forward. AMC could either terminate his employment completely for no other reason than to be extremely safe or continue employing him. Each option can be debated and has its own disturbing ramifications.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
You legitimately think he should lose his job because his ex made an accusation against him?

You think that's how the world should work?


I wouldn't mind him losing some work for blackballing her. There's corroboration of that much at least.

But in the end I guess that's not what Dykstra wants, so I'll respect her wishes.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I wouldn't mind him losing some work for blackballing her. There's corroboration of that much at least.

But in the end I guess that's not what Dykstra wants, so I'll respect her wishes.
With the claims as to him blackballing her, I want to know what exactly that means. I've been curious. I know Chris helped start The Nerdist, but how much clout does he honestly have in the industry as a whole? He's not a big time top executive is he? He wasn't powerful enough to not get ejected out of his own company. So I have to ask in all honestly what him blackballing her honestly means. I can't imagine he has THAT much pull as a C tier comedian/host. But it's possible I'm mistaken and gotten the wrong impression of this guy's influence.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
That one article is talking about Mel Gibson making a comeback.

Guy was practically ostracized from all of Hollywood for a decade. At what point are people allowed to make amends and try to come back?
Much like child molesters shouldn't get to work with children ever again, I think there is a line after which I don't think people should be allowed back to such an influential, prestigious position that Hollywood people are in after they've raped/assaulted people. They abused their position of power, no need to give that back to them.

Not like they need the money to survive.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
With the claims as to him blackballing her, I want to know what exactly that means. I've been curious. I know Chris helped start The Nerdist, but how much clout does he honestly have in the industry as a whole? He's not a big time top executive is he? He wasn't powerful enough to be ejected out of his own company. So I have to ask in all honestly what him blackballing her honestly means. I can't imagine he has THAT much pull as a C tier comedian/host. But it's possible I'm mistaken and gotten the wrong impression of this guy's influence.
He had influence in the Nerdist/Geek & Sundry/other nerdy LA based/connected channels and that can be enough to prevent someone like Dykstra from getting at least some small time gigs through those venues that her kind of not-super-well-known people probably appreciate as a small extra income.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
You legitimately think he should lose his job because his ex made an accusation against him?

You think that's how the world should work?

No I don't think everyone who gets accused should automatically lose their job.

But looking at the accusation and the circumstances around it, I believe her. However since there isn't proof or evidence of multiple accusations, it's not surprising that he wasn't fired.

Still think he should be fired though.
 
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FeistyBoots

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,506
Southern California
Tough to see any practical conclusion to the matter in this case. Once an accusation is made and an investigation comes to fruition because of it, no acceptable system of justice would leave a defendant in purgatory as a result of a key witness refusing to come forward. AMC could either terminate his employment completely for no other reason than to be extremely safe or continue employing him. Each option can be debated and has its own disturbing ramifications.

This is admittedly a fair point, and when there isn't enough evidence found - which is different from there being no evidence to find - I don't really see how else it would play out.

What truly bothers me is that my belief, that people who do stuff like this should not be excused after a little social community service and welcomed back with open arms, isn't the prevailing view. People are far too willing to give up supporting victims and at the very least viewing the assaulter with full knowledge of what kind of person they are and what kind of real-world harm they cause - and turning away from wanting to associate with such excusal.

Like... these people caused real pain and suffering. I can't understand the almost eager desire some people out there feel to "move past" others' trauma to get back to their favorite TV shows or movies or whatever, crafted by people who have demonstrated they don't actually live by the morals they probably practice and hold to be important.

My mind doesn't work that way. I believe in supporting the victims by being honest about the things that happened, not sweeping them under the red carpet. We live in a world saturated with creative works, effortlessly accessible to the audience that consumes this stuff. We can move on to discovering new works by people who are not only maybe just as talented, but also aren't creeps.

I think society would be better for investigating those new finds and letting the creeps' careers naturally atrophy until they're playing to a retirement community crowd.
 
Oct 27, 2017
773
User Banned (2 Weeks): Downplaying concerns of sexism, history of infractions.
The assumption that the accused is immediately guilty is terrifying and you are morally bankrupt if you subscribe to it. I don't see it as a negative if some men who got #MeToo'd unjustly recover from it. Note: I have no idea the specifics of these guys. I'm just giving a general statement that if some recover from false accusation that doesn't undermine the whole movement.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,438
For some cases, like his, I don't think they should be allowed to come back. He's rich, he'll live.

This is.... frustrating, because I think this is a topic that's worthy of discussion. But I hinted.... literally HINTED at discussing where the line was for cases where people who do dumb shit being allowed to make amends and 'come back' should be drawn and ate a 1 day ban faster than the freaking flash and was accused of comparing offense of Person A to the offense of Person B which I literally took the time to clarify I wasn't doing.

Just saying. That might seem like a natural place for these discussions to go, but don't.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
He had influence in the Nerdist/Geek & Sundry/other nerdy LA based/connected channels and that can be enough to prevent someone like Dykstra from getting at least some small time gigs through those venues that her kind of not-super-well-known people probably appreciate as a small extra income.


Yeah he was well connected in the LA area. I was a bit distressed at which names were retweeting news that AMC was taking him back. People who were too cowardly to support him openly when the accusations came to light but then had no problem retweeting support now.
 
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FeistyBoots

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,506
Southern California
With the claims as to him blackballing her, I want to know what exactly that means. I've been curious. I know Chris helped start The Nerdist, but how much clout does he honestly have in the industry as a whole? He's not a big time top executive is he? He wasn't powerful enough to not get ejected out of his own company. So I have to ask in all honestly what him blackballing her honestly means. I can't imagine he has THAT much pull as a C tier comedian/host. But it's possible I'm mistaken and gotten the wrong impression of this guy's influence.

So let me talk about blackballing, because a member of my immediate family almost committed suicide over it, thanks to a small-time newspaper editor who was in bed with crooked election officials siphoning money from minority scholarships.

It happens at all levels, and it starts with a whisper.

"I hear X isn't good at their job"

"X, we've learned some things that call into question your competence, and as such we cannot consider you for this position"

Small attacks through social interaction, whispering campaigns, etc, build up over time, like a dozen tiny stab wounds. Then one day, you wake up ostracized from your life's work.

The difference here is that the person being ostracized didn't earn it. Blackballing is a very serious, critically injurious, systemic method for ruining someone. And it's easy. Someone like Hardwick could easily pull it off.
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,502