So you agree that some knowledge of previous entries does matter?
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What’s the general consensus on Valkyria Chronicles 4 for those who’ve played the JPN version?
- Thread starter mogster7777
- Start date
I am just telling the newcomers that this is not a new thing for the franchise.. dunno why many reacted so strongly.
Thats like me saying that for people to not be surprised for Xenob 2 fanservice as Xeno as a franchise is filled with fanservice too or Persona game will always have beach scene fanservice moment as it have happen almost everytime since P3.
This is a separate argument. I was responding to a poster who said JRPGs are getting worse in their pandering. I agreed but mentioned that DQ hasn't really increased the pandering but implying that pandering is still there.
So you're telling me 3 had complete nudity except for being covered up by another woman's hands?
Also Xenoblade 2's fanservice was on an entirely different level than X or 1. Are you being disingenuous on purpose now?
Even one of those posts makes me and many other women here feel uncomfortable and unsafe. Even if most people are being reasonable.
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I think Xenoblade X's was probably worse, actually. It had the Playboy bunny outfits with thongs, multiple bikini outfits and plenty of other lewd ones, boob slider, etc. Unless we're just talking for default outfits, in which case Xenoblade 2 is probably worse in that regard since there's no costume changing really.
User warned: dismissing concerns of sexism, tone policing
You can't just cry mansplaining whenever anyone engages with you on a forum. That is pretty shitty behavior. You not liking someone's reply is not mansplaining.
Yes, 2 is worse by default as all that shit in 2 was 100% optional. Even if you wanted to wear those outfits for the stats (even though most were shit), you could still have a different cosmetic outfit so you didn't have to see it.
According to Easy Allies' preview of the demo, the game introduces new and interesting Mission types to spice things up.
Someone telling me my concerns about people being sexist aren't valid because x sure sounds like mansplaining to me, even if the poster, to be fair, did not know my gender.
Also, again, responses like yours are why women are being driven away from this site. We speak up, men who have no idea what's being in our shoes is like say our concerns aren't valid.
I don't understand how you can brush that off while ignoring a bunch of us who have played it telling you it isn't representative of 99% of the game :/
Like, I think the VC4 thing is a skeevy, cringe scene, but it's 3 minutes out of over 50 hours I spent platinuming it o.O. You won't even find it unless you aim to 100% the game, like the DQXI beach and schoolgirl costumes.
Sorry then, I didn't meant to say your concerns weren't valid or that you were wrong. What I meant to say is I don't feel like that was what the majority of the thread was about and I definitely didn't meant that there were no sexist posts in that thread. Then again, I agree with all the points you raised later.
You were mischaracterizing their post. The way you use mansplaining looks a lot like handwaving to me, which is inherently dismissive. People reply to others, they are going to articulate their points as best as they can; that isn't mansplaining, that is conversing.
I would never do anything to try to make any forum or thread an unpleasant place for women. I called you out in the same way I would call out any poster that I thought was being disingenuous or unfair.
Was I brushing it off? I called it pandering, it's still pandering despite not being uncharacteristic of the DQ series.
But the VC4 scene is on a whole different level of pandering and is also on a different level of pandering compared to the rest of the VC series. It is crossing a line.
Wut? I dont know what to say here. Now, you are grading fanservice? Which one is worst than the others?
Fanservice is fanservice. If a game have it. Then it should be talked as it is.
Xenob 1 literally allow Sharla to just wear a Tong to battle. And thats not talking what other costume it allow other female chara use.
Xenob X allow characters to use bunny suit and we are not talking Elma true form costume too.
Xenob 2 had its own set of fanservice which some may feel it is worst vs original or feel it is better than Xenob1 and X there.
And this is not talking Xenosaga as a series where Momo literally wear a swimsuit in pool cutscene lol.
I am saying again. Xenob 2 fanservice is equally bad to all other Xeno series.
On VC. Fanservice is fanservice trying to nitpick one and another is just disginieous. One have jiggling boobs in bikini in VC3 or that is suddenly better than this lol.
Trying to said that one fanservice is okay while the other is no no is just hypocrite.
Thank you. I get it and appreciate your reply.
From my perspective, it sounded like mansplaining. I wasn't saying that in bad faith because that genuinely seemed what it was. The poster later clarified himself, and I very much appreciate that he realized why I had the reaction I did.
Christ of all the reasons not to use this site, i dont think someone stating their view is why. Stating your opinion as fact is normal for discussion boards, otherwise every single post would start with "Well in my opinion...."
Stop derailing the thread please, thank you.
None of this fan service stuff has anything to do with what the OP asked Which at its core is whether the game is as good as VC1 and not Revolution.
None of this fan service stuff has anything to do with what the OP asked Which at its core is whether the game is as good as VC1 and not Revolution.
I dunno, I guess I read it that way. We don't really disagree enough for me to bother arguing, since it seems we'd both prefer that scene didn't make VC4, and that those costumes weren't in DQXI.
I'm just miffed because VC4 is a great game that I really enjoyed, and that screenshot is being used to represent it (granted, that's what the developers get for including it at all...), and not all the stuff it does better than previous entries :(
Putting you on my ignore list. Complete nudity is not the same fucking thing as all other fanservice. You are arguing in bad faith.
It absolutely is relevant. He said general consensus and not specifically gameplay.
I think I need to leave this thread for my mental health. So bye.
Welp, this thread got derailed.
Even so, I appreciate knowing this game will incorporate pandery fan-service ahead of time. My tolerance for shit like that has gotten so low. Looks like I'll pass, but I'm glad the game looks good otherwise.
Even so, I appreciate knowing this game will incorporate pandery fan-service ahead of time. My tolerance for shit like that has gotten so low. Looks like I'll pass, but I'm glad the game looks good otherwise.
Don't worry just like P5, Nier, Beseria, X2 and even MHW that comes before it, if the game is good it can stand on its own merits.
The fanservice stuff is definitely unfortunate. If it is limited to a handful of optional scenes I will be able to look past it, but it is going to be a hard pass if it is a persistent element of the game. It just rubs me the wrong way and feels inherently disrespectful.
I mean are people forgetting who one of the main villains in the first game was? This series has been pretty pandering since the start.
If anyone wants a pretty comprehensive overview of the game, I thought Yunyo from the import OT nailed it on the last post of this page. Quoting the post too:
Videogames are big and they usually include a lot of things, saying on particular thing is not representative of the whole product is not defending it. Yes we can live without the gay scene in P5 or the self explosion in Nier Automata, but there's so much more to these games than homophobia and bare ass. Imagine brushing off the complete works of Shakespeare just because he wrote The Taming of the Shrew. Recommending these games is not endorsing every problematic element in them. Saying that this is a 3 minute scene in a 50 hour game, and it's not as ridiculous (at least to me) as one single screenshot suggests, is not sexism.
Do you think this is a casual gaming site where none of us have ever played a video game ever?
My point being nothing you said is new to any of us. So thank you for sharing and stating the obvious.
I felt I've been wrongly accused so I have to defend myself. My post is not directed to you or any particular person. It's a statement to explain my own stance on the subject. On Era there's a lot of obvious things that are worth reiterating.
Welp, that's one more game off my "to-play list". Shame, I loved the first Valkyria Chronicles.
I'm conflicted. Valkyria Chronicles' story was dumb as a sack of bricks but I powered through thanks to its fantastic gameplay, so I don't know if adding otaku pandering trash is really that much of a dealbreaker for a storyline I was already uninterested in.
It's just okay. Female characters sadly are pretty much just walking fetishes, and fanservice is worse than it has ever been in the series. And that includes a series with Selvaria. It's still not as bad as other series that SEGA has tanked with service (like Shining Force).
The gameplay front is much better. Unlike other recent JRPG fetish delivery services like Xenoblade 2, they actually tried to have solid gameplay. The "naval" support was pretty cool (if a bit anime), and the maps are back to how they should be. If you played 2 and 3, you may remember how the maps were all incredibly tiny and crampled, disconnected affairs, that's a goner.
Play it for the gameplay, but the plot and writing for female characters gave me a headache. Really neat gameplay though.
My personal review score 7.5/11: They tried. Game has issues. Looks great. UI is a mess. I probably would have enjoyed it more if I understood less of the plot, but it's still the second best game in the series, and if you like the series, you should give it a shot. Just don't expect portrayals of women that don't have issues. The snow witch especially comes to mind here. Her name didn't make me think "Cryo" for frozen, but "Cry" for crying.
SO, yeah, I would recommend it to fans of the series. I understand most of them aren't as turned off by the service as I am, and that's fine, it's a personal opinion.
...This is a completely disingenious lie.
Xenoblade X had mostly optional fanservice that was not part of the story. Aside some terrible outfits for female characters (such as SPOILERS final outfit or literally every female villain), most women actually looked fairly practical. My heroine was not forced into a thong, for example. The game never implied that women weren't really women for not dressing in lingerie in public.
Xenoblade 2 on the other hand forced countless pantyshots on me, constantly bombarded me with harem tropes and sexism, the character design was focused on sexual fetishes, while the only woman not half naked was constantly described as "dressing like a guy". And then there was that plot twist with a certain female character's reveal, and of course it means sexy lingerie in every cutscene onward.
That's not even in the same solar system as earlier entries. Earlier entries had bad parts, Xenoblade 2 was all abominable when it cames to portrayals of women, with a few tiny exceptions, and even the exceptions managed to be terrible in their own way. I liked Morag, for example, but it says a lot that the game kept hammering home that she's dressing like ~a guy~. If the game had at least had the decency to not pull that, I might have come away more favorable to it.
Xenoblade 2 is absolutely far worse than any previous Xeno, and than most mainstream JRPGs, when it comes to service. It's a harem plot, with 3+ female characters in love with the crappy hero. Of course it is.
The gameplay front is much better. Unlike other recent JRPG fetish delivery services like Xenoblade 2, they actually tried to have solid gameplay. The "naval" support was pretty cool (if a bit anime), and the maps are back to how they should be. If you played 2 and 3, you may remember how the maps were all incredibly tiny and crampled, disconnected affairs, that's a goner.
Play it for the gameplay, but the plot and writing for female characters gave me a headache. Really neat gameplay though.
My personal review score 7.5/11: They tried. Game has issues. Looks great. UI is a mess. I probably would have enjoyed it more if I understood less of the plot, but it's still the second best game in the series, and if you like the series, you should give it a shot. Just don't expect portrayals of women that don't have issues. The snow witch especially comes to mind here. Her name didn't make me think "Cryo" for frozen, but "Cry" for crying.
SO, yeah, I would recommend it to fans of the series. I understand most of them aren't as turned off by the service as I am, and that's fine, it's a personal opinion.
...This is a completely disingenious lie.
Xenoblade X had mostly optional fanservice that was not part of the story. Aside some terrible outfits for female characters (such as SPOILERS final outfit or literally every female villain), most women actually looked fairly practical. My heroine was not forced into a thong, for example. The game never implied that women weren't really women for not dressing in lingerie in public.
Xenoblade 2 on the other hand forced countless pantyshots on me, constantly bombarded me with harem tropes and sexism, the character design was focused on sexual fetishes, while the only woman not half naked was constantly described as "dressing like a guy". And then there was that plot twist with a certain female character's reveal, and of course it means sexy lingerie in every cutscene onward.
That's not even in the same solar system as earlier entries. Earlier entries had bad parts, Xenoblade 2 was all abominable when it cames to portrayals of women, with a few tiny exceptions, and even the exceptions managed to be terrible in their own way. I liked Morag, for example, but it says a lot that the game kept hammering home that she's dressing like ~a guy~. If the game had at least had the decency to not pull that, I might have come away more favorable to it.
Xenoblade 2 is absolutely far worse than any previous Xeno, and than most mainstream JRPGs, when it comes to service. It's a harem plot, with 3+ female characters in love with the crappy hero. Of course it is.
Those are pretty bad arguments to use to defend this game:
Most won't see it so it's okay.
Because of context (bullshit story) it's okay to run naked and then act surprised to be naked.
Do you even read what you're typing or have you lost it so far with this madness?!
Those kind of replies are embarrassing. Surely a bikini is the same as being naked. Surely the amount of fanservice and how far it goes doesn't matter whatsoever.
And just to casiopao claiming this is for the newcomers. Cut it out with this bullshit. I love VC games and completed all the previous VC games. They have tropes, certain characters with big boobs and a beach chapter. That's it. Not the female playable characters were stupid, exaggeratingly airheaded, have cat-ears, insulting sexist replies in the game, being naked etc.
Sorry but that's wrong. Stop using this as an excuse. It ABSOLUTELY matters how far it goes, in what context, how often it is repeated and how it is displayed. Maybe you don't know how humans feel anymore, but there is a tolerance level for women.
See it like this: fanservice is bad but this game is awesome. I will try to tolerate some fanservice to enjoy the other elements in spite of them. When it goes too far, then I can't play those type of games anymore.
That's how most women feel. It would do you good to let this get through your head. Maybe it's easy for a guy to just say fanservice is fanservice and don't think about it because it doesn't affect guys. I can guarantee you that guys would also react this way if they would deal with fanservice as often as women do.
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Nah, hand waving this stuff away as minor just enables this stuff to keep getting worse and forces stagnation of criticism.
Damn right I'm going to criticize Persona 5 for being homophobic trash where queer people are portrayed as subhuman pedophiles. I don't give a fuck whether the rest of the game is good - you don't just throw Ben Garrison level hateful caricature in a game and then brush it aside because it was only a couple of scenes.
This.
I do not even understand why some guys seem to believe that pretending the fetish service isn't gross is somehow improving things. That's not how the rest of us will experience these game. The game still has that, and downplaying it or pretending "earlier entries are just as bad" isn't helping. The earlier entries aren't as bad, and the service also has a different quality this time. There's a difference between "wearing a bikini", "wearing a bikini and jiggling like you're made of jello while not even walking" and "running naked to enemy soldiers who spout sexist lines".
If a game series goes from the first to the second and then the third, things aren't the same, they got much worse.
The best these guys can do with that is trick people into playing a game they absolutely can't enjoy, and all that does is cause resentment towards both the game and its fans.
User banned (1 week) - trolling/avatar shaming to dismiss concerns of sexism and homophobia + accumulated infractions
Very convincing from someone whose avatar is from a series that is known for using woman taking off clothes as a "reward" to player.
The series that was the benchmark in female representation in gaming back in the 80s, yeah.
Everytime anime pandering discussions is brought up, people always show up with their defeatism attitude.
I thought we're on a progressive forum. Disappointing.
I thought we're on a progressive forum. Disappointing.
Uh, I think you are misunderstanding the point of my post. The point I was getting across was with how it was before it's not shocking how it is now as time has gone on.
A lot of these games are largely made for the Japanese market first and foremost, and are designed to sell overpriced pervy merchandise to otaku.
I hate it as much as you do but complaining here isn't going to do shit because the companies are simply doing what makes them money.
Yup yup, the best you could do is find someone to translate a letter or something and show you are an overseas fan and show some concerns about things and hope it gets to them in someway or do a big group thing. Or just dont buy the game to send a message, though sadly this usually sends the wrong message to suits.
Sure, but people can also not being defensive about these stuff of all things.
This isn't true. It is going to do something, and that is allow western consumers to make reasonable decisions according to their tastes. Someone expecting VC1 levels of service and really disliking stuff that is more servicy will likely not be happy about VC4 in that regard, and should know about this before buying.
We can't influence the market, but we sure can accurately represent the games, so people can easily pick and choose according to their interest/comfort level. Downplaying how bad the service actually is just leads to a Xenoblade 2 situation, and that's bad for everyone.
That's not in the same level of homophobia at all and just sounds like whataboutisms.
People are generally pretty selfish, the group that likes the stuff is always going to butt heads with the people that want stuff like that toned down to be more inclusive. In the same sense a group that doesn't like a certain something and wants it gone for their own interest will butt heads with people that enjoy things. Suits are typically gonna see pandering as guaranteed sells vs taking a risk at bringing in an unknown. Which obviously is a shame in a game as unique as this. Honestly the fan service scenes would have been better presented on both the men and women of the game for different moments in similar ways if they wanted to do it justice and really just wanted to have it in there.