The Last Guardian is a better tomb raider game than Tomb Raider.

The boy has just the intertia of a puppy dog. But the game heavily cover you against falling : jumping and climbing is safe. And Trico respond to four order : come here, stay here, stomp that and jump over there. I completed it for the second time recently, you can see that I am hesitant sometimes because I forgot a lot of scripted events like this one :

[environmental/action script spoiler]

Harlequin said:

If only new Tomb Raider could learn from classic Tomb Raider how not to control like a floaty, over-automated yawn-fest.

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Surely you're kidding, the original Tomb Raider games are some of the worst controlling games dare I say ever.

[redacted] said:

Surely you're kidding, the original Tomb Raider games are some of the worst controlling games dare I say ever.

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They really were. I always thought the PS1 era was strange. There were some games that got a lot of praise and, even back then, I just thought to myself "huh?"

As for as this thread goes... I guess I can't really comment. I played probably the first 3-5 hours of this game and gave up on it. Total snooze-fest. And believe me, it was hard realization to come to. I was always very excited for TLG.

Well yeah. Modern Tomb Raider is just a third person shooter now.

Tibarn said:

I agree that the input buffer in the souls game is bigger than it should and that the overall response is not that great, but the game does not have lots of platforming and the action is slow most of the time. And btw, I was talking about The Last Guardian controls, not about Tomb Raider.

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Ah, fair enough if you were talking about TLG. Guess my mind was stuck a bit too much on TR when I read that post. (Don't really remember TLG's controls well enough to say if I agree or disagree with you on that. Though at least generally speaking, platforming and long response times can go together very well.)

[redacted] said:

Surely you're kidding, the original Tomb Raider games are some of the worst controlling games dare I say ever.

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That's your opinion but you will find that many Tomb Raider fans disagree with it. It's one of the most consistent and reliable control systems I've ever used. The learning curve is a bit steep which is why some people gave up on them and just declared them terrible controls and timing-based input lag isn't for everyone which adds to their divisiveness but if you actually learn how to use them properly, they're great. (Though I should mention that I've mostly played the PC versions. The D-Pad controls may be a bit harder to master, I have no idea.) I'll also add my post from the previous page:

Harlequin said:

Because, yeah, the game's response to your input takes a while to show up on-screen but that delay is always perfectly consistent and if you try and actually work with the controls, you'll figure out the timing very quickly and it becomes second-nature. What's great about the classic TR controls is that they always do exactly what you tell them to. There's no perceptible extra layer of automation or interpretation on the part of the game so what you do is what you get (unlike most modern games featuring 3D platforming). In that sense they are perfectly responsive. If your sole definition of responsiveness is based on response time then they aren't, sure. That doesn't automatically make them bad controls, though. To me, they're some of the most well-designed game controls I've ever had the pleasure of using.

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Ico and somewhat Shadow Of The Colossus imo were similar at times to the original Tomb Raider series with all the puzzles and exploration.

Ironically, when Tomb Raider first came out, people use to think it was Prince Of Persia in 3D due to all the animations, platforming, and again puzzles. A cool lineage if you ask me. The Last Guardian feels like Prince Of Persia than it does Tomb Raider tbh.

[redacted] said:

Surely you're kidding, the original Tomb Raider games are some of the worst controlling games dare I say ever.

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Classic Tomb Raider give you more precise controls than any modern Tomb Raider or modern adventure game. They have a learning curve but they are extremely precise, reliable and require no automation. Everything is player controlled.

Vishmarx said:

Last guardian is the dark souls of the tomb raider.

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oh my lol

With worst camera and controls.
Ok.

Vishmarx said:

Last guardian is the dark souls of the tomb raider.

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More like classic Tomb Raider is the Dark Souls of 3D platformers (however backwards that may sound seeing as classic TR came first) but yeah :p.

Acquiescence said:

I never realised it until now, but The Last Guardian is definitely more evocative of the early Tomb Raider games than Tomb Raider itself has been for the past two gens or so.

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Yeah I'm kinda mind blown rn

Well, TLG is one of the few recent games where none of the platforming/climbing is automated, so in that sense it evokes memories of the old Tomb Raider platforming. Good stuff, despite camera and responsiveness issues.

blizzardjesus said:

New Tombraider series is better than the old ones.

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If you like shooters and hate puzzles and actual exploring, yeah, than it probably is.

Reading the title I thought this comparison would be kind of silly and for a moment was reminded of that ludicrous "Portal 2 blows out Ico" thread on the old forum. After reading and thinking it over, it makes sense though. TLG's sense of scale is jaw dropping, the Nest is one of the best locales in any game. Being afraid of heights that platforming section in the OP got to me but it was so well done that I consider it a highlight.

This sound like great music for my ears!

So does it play like the PoP-games?
Then I REALLY should start playing my sealed copy to see if it take me to gaming heaven! (TLG)

Nah, Tomb Raider doesn't run at 20 fps and control like shit.

xerzewatt said:

Considering the last guardian is one of the worst games ever created, I highly doubt that it is better than any Tomb Raider (let alone the awesome new series).

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Hyperbole adds so much to a discussion, gotta love it

Snake Eater said:

Hyperbole adds so much to a discussion, gotta love it

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Maybe he really thinks that.

It's extremely rare I actively dislike a game and every time I hear about it I get annoyed, but TLG is just one of those very few games.

I think people are taking fucking crazy pills when they say it's great, let alone one of the best games ever made. Like, what the actual fuck. It's fundamentally a super janky experience. I can't stand the camera, movement controls, Trico AI, or the way it ran.

I really can't see how people can look past basic things that just ruin the entire experience. They're like the most fundamental aspects too. Performance AND controls? What a combo to mess up.

As weird as this shit sounds it totally makes sense.

It has the best jump into water ever. You could feel it, like it was a pool of milk.

Good lord, the shitposts in this thread. TLG reliably brings 'em out of the woodwork.

mikehaggar said:

As for as this thread goes... I guess I can't really comment. I played probably the first 3-5 hours of this game and gave up on it. Total snooze-fest. And believe me, it was hard realization to come to. I was always very excited for TLG.

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I would think as a developer yourself, you would have a bit more sense than to call someone else's work - one that received multiple GOTY nods - a "snooze fest."

I love the re-booted games. The first two were fantastic and I can't wait for the third.

HueyFreeman said:

you would have a bit more sense than to call someone else's work - one that received multiple GOTY nods - a "snooze fest."

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I think he's free to his opinion. Obviously he found the game really boring. Sure it got a few nods, but this was clearly a divisive title.

Many people, me included, basically hate the game. Committed too many cardinal sins as far as I'm concerned.

Snake Eater said:

Hyperbole adds so much to a discussion, gotta love it

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Not hyperbole, I really think that it does not have any redeeming qualities. I very rarely hate games but TLG and proteus are the only two games I genuinely hated. Note that I do like walking sims and environment puzzles. Journey was one of my favorite gaming experiences. TLG is just awful.

carlosrox said:

I think he's free to his opinion. Obviously he found the game really boring. Sure it got a few nods, but this was clearly a divisive title.

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People are absolutely free to their opinion and I'm not trying to change it. I'm just surprised that someone who actually tries to participate in creating in this medium would call a piece by one of our auteurs that took a decade to make and is called a masterpiece by many, a snooze fest.

Having said that, you and a couple of other posters are just kind of generally participating disingenuously in this thread, so I'm not sure why I'm engaging you. You don't like the game - the thread is not at all about that, so feel free to disembark.

I think the atmosphere of this the last guardian is great.

I think the game itself is bad, and this is coming from someone that thinks that SOTC is one of the best games ever.

WrenchNinja said:

Well yeah. Modern Tomb Raider is just a third person shooter now.

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Pretty much. It's why I lost interest in Tomb Raider after the reboot.

[redacted] said:

Surely you're kidding, the original Tomb Raider games are some of the worst controlling games dare I say ever.

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I'm assuming that's why the OP thinks the Last Guardian is a TR game.

Because it controls like a pile of garbage as well.

Drey1082 said:

I think the atmosphere of this the last guardian is great.

I think the game itself is bad, and this is coming from someone that thinks that SOTC is one of the best games ever.

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SotC is the most casual friendly of Ueda's titles. It holds few similarities to what makes people love TLG. This would be a more meaningful statement if you had said Ico.

Snake Eater said:

You enjoyed the tank controls? First time I've ever heard that

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You must not have been to the GAF/ERA classic TR threads much. :-)

Joking aside, while it may not be the opinion of majority, but we have a rather decent classic Tomb Raider defense force here/back in the old place. Which I'm pretty happy about.