Baby boomers turning to religion in the later years of life

Wackamole said:

I have no idea why you would need religion for "right or wrong" or "good or bad". How can you consider any of the many religions out there an authority on good and bad? There are simple humane rules/ agreements we made that make sense. Of course, i consider all the religious writings as simply conceived by humans. All the words. And some of them make sense in the time they were written, some still make sense. Some seem ridiculous.

I'm not attacking you in any way, but how does religion give you any idea of right and wrong?
And when looking at the rest of the animal kingdom, isn't it possible there isn't a right a wrong at all? But that we have made agreements on what we as humans consider right and wrong so that we can give everyone the opportunity to realize their own pursuit of happiness without ruining the pursuit of happiness of others? We think "wrong" as having a too big of a negative impact on the pursuit of happiness of others, right? If we want to make society work, we have to make some rules. A lot of those rules come from basic empathy that results from human beings living together. If it hurts me, it will also hurt the other person, etc. Makes perfect sense to me and no need for hell or heaven. You try to do "good" because it makes sense. It's how you would like to be treated yourself.

Always interested in a conversation, by the way. I may seem harsh at times but that's just because is sincerely don't understand certain things.
I'm not the smartest person in the world but i mean well, in general.


And you're right, kids lean towards what their parents think. But some parents don't let their kids think. They tell them what to think. Not just religious people. And in that case, you're just raising a soon to be very confused kid, i think.

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Oh no problem you make excellent points. Just my own opinion after all since it's always been a confusing idea to think about lol. I agree it's important to let them think for themselves. I like your idea about it, my only problem is when considering making rules for right or wrong why are we the only animals that apply a rule set. In the end though it's all very interesting stuff and it's great to converse about :)

Also to answer you question about religion to conceive as good or bad.

1. Honestly it's not a set religion that I feel gives the Golden authority of right or wrong. I think all of them give ideas of how right and wrong should be dealt with, but then again they are made of humans which automatically makes them flawed(case in point example Christianity: Crusades, persecution, The scandal in the Vatican, etc. Hindu: The one system they got, Islam: crusades(although much less extreme)

2. To be honest I like the idea of your scenario involving right or wrong. However, it just bugs me that if that is the case then we instantly place ourselves above everything when we are just smarter apes.

3. The empathy part I fully agree with. Emotions does play a role in a lot of these type of endeavors.

4. And that last two parts I completely agree with.

I'm kinda weird but discussing this is kinda fun and interesting thing to think about.

4859 said:

Holy shit are you kidding me with this redundant beyond the need to point out crap.

Nobody here is subscribing to Strauss and Howe's fucking bullshit.


Doesn't change the fact certain words have made their way into popular culture and have use.

It doesn't matter if some boomers were special little fucking snowflakes. They are special enough to realize this shit is not about THEM without us needing to write paragraphs of fucking special snowflakes exclusions for them. Who failed. Miserably, by the way.

Regaurdless of Strauss and Howe's idiotic bullshit, the population born from 46 to 64 has had immense political power, and have fucked everything.

Repealing lobbying laws
Repealing worker rights
Lowering corporate taxes back down to robber baron levels
Removing TR and Fdr's protections for us, from the great corporations.
Mother fucking Fox News.

While we couldn't do Jack shit.

The boomers made their bed. Now they need to fucking die in it.


And the special snowflakes, they know who the fuck they are, and who they ain't. We don't need extra pedantic layers of crap to adress them. They are big boys and girls.

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Deep breaths yo.

The point of the article that I latched onto was less about Strauss n Howe specifially and more about essentialist historicism in general. Also Not about special snowflakes, it's about treating history with the breadth it deserves, because generalizing entire generations leads to further generalizations that help no one.

Like so many here saying all organized religion is shit, when churches were a huge pillar of the black community. Boomers aren't just old wealthy white people. The generalizations we use when talking lead to more generalized thoughts which lead to erasing the complexity of the past.

See, those specific points you brought up, totally in agreement with. It's just the essentialism going on in this thread (and far beyond honestly) seems ridiculous.

And cmon, I copped to pedantry in my first post. :D
I'm not on some crusade, just having a discussion about language and history, because I find it meaningful.

Shauni said:

Even if that is true, which it's not really, it doesn't stop what I said from being true. It's a false equivalency, a way to excuse what the Boomers, generally speaking, has done

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Sorry if it came across as me attempting "whataboutism", that wasn't my intent! The things you say are true, and I'm not trying to shut down discussion about the horrible shit that went down to get us to this point, I just don't like seeing people talk about any group as a monolith because it tends to erase the complexities of reality.

Like, queer folk, women, people of color, etc, there were a lot of people who had little or no power in that era, and seeing others go "fuck boomers of course they're turning to religion they fucked us all over, the cowards, burn in Hell!" just.....I get that people are talking about a subset but it just leaves me wondering what the point of these generalizations are. Like...surely there's more nuance here than "fuck the olds, they are religious because they are evil and weak!"

Does that make any sense to you? (Genuinely asking haha)

OfficerRaichu15 said:

Oh no problem you make excellent points. Just my own opinion after all since it's always been a confusing idea to think about lol.

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Okay thanx. It's never my intention to confuse people or make them turn away from something they feel safe with. Actually, as long as nobody negatively influences my happy life i couldn't care less what they believe in. It becomes a problem when others tell me or my kid what to believe in. Since that is... impossible.

Personally, i'm doing fine without a religion or the notion of a God. I never really crosses my mind, haha. I also think i'm doing little wrong. Aside from being a human being every now and then. We're not perfect, i'll give you that. But i live by certain principles and guidelines (just like we all do) that make perfect sense to me.

Wackamole said:

Okay thanx. It's never my intention to confuse people or make them turn away from something they feel safe with. Actually, as long as nobody negatively influences my happy life i couldn't care less what they believe in. It becomes a problem when others tell me or my kid what to believe in. Since that is... impossible.

Personally, i'm doing fine without a religion or the notion of a God. I never really crosses my mind, haha. I also think i'm doing little wrong. Aside from being a human being every now and then. We're not perfect, i'll give you that. But i live by certain principles and guidelines (just like we all do) that make perfect sense to me.

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And that's great! Happiness is something that every human should strive for. Glad your happy man. Honestly I think the best way for Religious and Atheist to get along is to be kind to each other and show respect unless it's something that harms others in different ways. A large majority of Atheists(like you) and Religous are good people. Sadly some of the minority religious who use religion to do evil had influence over us. However, it'll hopefully be finished with in 2020.

To be honest I honestly feel like this answer is unknowable. Since we don't know what happens after death outside of a decay of a body. But that's just my opinion lol.

OfficerRaichu15 said:

And that's great! Happiness is something that every human should strive for. Glad your happy man. Honestly I think the best way for Religious and Atheist to get along is to be kind to each other and show respect unless it's something that harms others in different ways. A large majority of Atheists(like you) and Religous are good people. Sadly some of the minority religious who use religion to do evil had influence over us. However, it'll hopefully be finished with in 2020.

To be honest I honestly feel like this answer is unknowable. Since we don't know what happens after death outside of a decay of a body. But that's just my opinion lol.

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OfficerRaichu15 said:

1. Honestly it's not a set religion that I feel gives the Golden authority of right or wrong. I think all of them give ideas of how right and wrong should be dealt with, but then again they are made of humans which automatically makes them flawed(case in point example Christianity: Crusades, persecution, The scandal in the Vatican, etc. Hindu: The one system they got, Islam: crusades(although much less extreme)

2. To be honest I like the idea of your scenario involving right or wrong. However, it just bugs me that if that is the case then we instantly place ourselves above everything when we are just smarter apes.

3. The empathy part I fully agree with. Emotions does play a role in a lot of these type of endeavors.

4. And that last two parts I completely agree with.

I'm kinda weird but discussing this is kinda fun and interesting thing to think about.

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To answer you points:

1. i agree. Basic rules are more or less in the same direction. Imo wise rules to make it work in a society. In my mind rules made by wise men. Of course, i can't tell for sure. But i can't see it any other way right now.

2. No we don't have to place ourselves above animals in any way. There is the food-chain, sure. And we did rather well, considering our weak bodies. But we are different when it comes to our brain and self image. And we have to deal with living together. I almost think we're too complex. Worried about our ego, reality, our place in it all, our mortality and all kind of trivial stuff like looks, money, etc. It's with religion we place ourselves as very important beings (god created man in his own image and we go to a better place than all other living creatures when we die). You don't see a lion praying for anything (i think). There are apes with rituals to influence the outcome of good fortune, i believe.

Imo we are just as insignificant as every other living creature and we will all be gone one day and no trace will be found aside from remains (like with dinosaurs), a couple of floating objects in space and a rover on Mars. That seems to be an inconceivable thought for many religious people (as well as non religious people). But for me that just means i have to make my short-assed life a nice one. It's more freeing than limiting. And i understand that other people also want to make their short assed life count. So let them live it the way they see best. Unfortunately, in a lot of countries people are not free to decide for themselves. And even in relatively free countries people aren't always as free as they want.
So no, i don't place myself above any living creature. In fact, i think i'm basically nothing. I do matter on a smaller scale and on a short timeframe. I matter to the welfare of my son, my girlfriend, friends, etc. But also in how i treat other people that i encounter in my journey.

I can only wish happiness on all, since i think the world would be completely different place. Unfortunately i can never see that happening though.

Fuck the baby boomers, the ultimate got-mine generation. The generation that destroyed the environment and gave us Donald Trump. The sooner they're all a distant memory the better.

Wackamole said:

To answer you points:

1. i agree. Basic rules are more or less in the same direction. Imo wise rules to make it work in a society. In my mind rules made by wise men. Of course, i can't tell for sure. But i can't see it any other way right now.

2. No we don't have to place ourselves above animals in any way. There is the food-chain, sure. And we did rather well, considering our weak bodies. But we are different when it comes to our brain and self image. And we have to deal with living together. I almost think we're too complex. Worried about our ego, reality, our place in it all, our mortality and all kind of trivial stuff like looks, money, etc. It's with religion we place ourselves as very important beings (god created man in his own image and we go to a better place than all other living creatures when we die). You don't see a lion praying for anything (i think). There are apes with rituals to influence the outcome of good fortune, i believe.

Imo we are just as insignificant as every other living creature and we will all be gone one day and no trace will be found aside from remains (like with dinosaurs), a couple of floating objects in space and a rover on Mars. That seems to be an inconceivable thought for many religious people (as well as non religious people). But for me that just means i have to make my short-assed life a nice one. It's more freeing than limiting. And i understand that other people also want to make their short assed life count. So let them live it the way they see best. Unfortunately, in a lot of countries people are not free to decide for themselves. And even in relatively free countries people aren't always as free as they want.
So no, i don't place myself above any living creature. In fact, i think i'm basically nothing. I do matter on a smaller scale and on a short timeframe. I matter to the welfare of my son, my girlfriend, friends, etc. But also in how i treat other people that i encounter in my journey.

I can only wish happiness on all, since i think the world would be completely different place. Unfortunately i can never see that happening though.

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Your right.

People talking about baby boomers destroying the environment: I don't see how our generation is doing much better? Earth overshoot day was earlier this year than it's ever been.

PhazonBlonde said:

I assure you my friend my hatred for religion is no performance.

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lmao same. Cheers.

PrimeBeef said:

It's just old people hedging their bet in favor of heaven being real, trying to be forgiven at the last moment. Pretty sure you will see this amongst all generations. Maybe lees of an uptick with newer generations, but it happens with age.

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Don't think hedging bets has anything to do with it, personally.

Most are just old and tired and rigid, and religion is perfectly accommodating to people with simplified lifestyles who demand simple answers to complex issues.

Honestly makes sense. Going to assume when you are older just hoping for something in the end you are just hoping heaven is a real thing. Helps them to accept that death is coming sooner rather than later.

Just_a_Mouse said:

Fuck the baby boomers, the ultimate got-mine generation. The generation that destroyed the environment and gave us Donald Trump. The sooner they're all a distant memory the better.

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What is this?

That feeling when you realise you ruined everything in your country and want to repent.

My parents became born-again fundamentalist Evangelical zealot nutjobs in their late-30's and have only gotten worse with age.

The Horror the Horror said:

Don't think hedging bets has anything to do with it, personally.

Most are just old and tired and rigid, and religion is perfectly accommodating to people with simplified lifestyles who demand simple answers to complex issues.

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Exactly, simple answer, there is a heaven, to a complex issue, what happens to us after we die. People don't just start going to church because they have time. Religion gives them answers they want to hear about mortality. With out going to church and being forgiven for past sins there is no way to get to heaven, if there is one. Which is why may parents and many of their friends and family have started going in their 70s.

LoL at the hate for Boomers here. What previous generation can you say did things better? The ones responsible for two world wars?

Boomers helped build the foundation for what has been the best time for humans to be born. Sure they made mistakes, but give them some fucking slack.

Enzo Lebold said:

lol

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Why is this funny? It's true.

The idea that things exist in bubbles, in isolation, is a core belief human beings have. And this isn't a true belief. Believing it on any major level will produce problems. The "I/me" duality is a common one.

The most hardcore dualists in America, for example, are Christian fundamentalists. It's their belief in a separate me -- the soul -- that exists in such a way that is separate from the body that they're the largest group of people who think human organisms cannot influence the climate. They see bubbles instead of bridges.

Look at how people get bothered that they're connected to other species via evolution. This special snowflake syndrome is a core identity from dualistic thinking, and it's always, always, always a balloon that gets popped.

By all means, if you find the idea that dualism being the biggest illusion is funny, humor me on what I'm missing. Any game of divisions produces conflict, which creates violence, which then breeds suffering. Dualism is the human species entry level game of division making.

I feel like dementia onset is part of it.

Foffy said:

Why is this funny? It's true.

The idea that things exist in bubbles, in isolation, is a core belief human beings have. And this isn't a true belief. Believing it on any major level will produce problems. The "I/me" duality is a common one.

The most hardcore dualists in America, for example, are Christian fundamentalists. It's their belief in a separate me -- the soul -- that exists in such a way that is separate from the body that they're the largest group of people who think human organisms cannot influence the climate. They see bubbles instead of bridges.

Look at how people get bothered that they're connected to other species via evolution. This special snowflake syndrome is a core identity from dualistic thinking, and it's always, always, always a balloon that gets popped.

By all means, if you find the idea that dualism being the biggest illusion is funny, humor me on what I'm missing. Any game of divisions produces conflict, which creates violence, which then breeds suffering. Dualism is the human species entry level game of division making.

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This sounds like you dismiss the possibility of dualism being real only because you connect the belief in dualism being real to cases of human behaviour that you perceive as morally wrong.

My parents got very churchy religious after I was in high school.

They seem to enjoy it, so good for them. Can't say I wasn't disappointed, though. I'm just glad they stopped trying to make me go with them.

Most do when they start seeing friends dying off and have to stare down mortality in the realest of ways.

Generalizing and blaming a whole generation has got to be the dumbest thing.

It makes sense. If not for comfort about mortality, it's for the community. Church is one of the best ways to meet new people once you reach a certain age.

Yeah everybody fears death.

its a nasty feeling specially if you aren't aware of life

Church is a great place to socialize for older folks too.

9/11 brought a lot of baby boomers back to organized religion as well. There was a huge boom in church attendance in the years following 9/11, and many stuck with it.

My parents aren't religious really but still have a large social group from their church. They know most of their friends from it.

Fear of death has always been one of the prime motivators behind religion. Death is basically the ultimate fear, the end of our existence something our mind can barely comprehend. Yet here is something that promises that not only will you not cease to exist but instead go to heaven for a glorious afterlife. Such a notion only becomes more appealing as you get older and closer to your own death.

This isn't really a baby boomer thing.

Enzo Lebold said:

This sounds like you dismiss the possibility of dualism being real only because you connect the belief in dualism being real to cases of human behaviour that you perceive as morally wrong.

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No, that's not it. Dualism, or at least what I'm referring to, is a belief things are separate. It has nothing to do with morals or behavior.

That idea is absolutely erroneous and starts falling apart when we examine just about anything. Are you and I separate, isolated entities in this one interconnected universe? No. We're differentiated phenomena, but that's not division.

A dualistic cosmos needs something like a God, or a soul/self/ego. We don't have either. The problem of something like Christianity is specifically its assertion of dualism more than any belief it may specifically propose, for that's the belief that deserves the most examination: are their proclamations of separateness any way true?

entremet said:

One of the main drivers is community. Not just afterlife consideration. I was reading that millenials are pursuing spirituality, but alone. Quite the constrast.

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This makes sense, personally im trying to find spirituality by myself because the 'religion' of my parents hurted me and hurts others despite their best intentions, that and has a tier of lies and hypocrisy that confuses me.

I would feel very happy with a community for religion if it didn't feel so false and unsafe at times , eventually with the right tools i think you can find your way alone as long as it fits you and those tools weren't there on previous generations.though its difficult

It's just afterlife insurance. Best to make peace with God before you go so he'll let you in the club.

I'm 23 i have turn to religion. I have convert to islam. glad my family is supported of it.

All generations will go through the same thing.

Also, I wonder who everyone will blame for every bad thing in their life after all the baby boomers are gone.

Foffy said:

A dualistic cosmos needs something like a God, or a soul/self/ego. We don't have either.

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There is zero reason for me to assume this, i'll just leave it like that.

OfficerRaichu15 said:

Your right.

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no idea. But it works for me, haha.

Religion works great when you need support of any kind.
I've never ever been the perfect christian myself but I love to spend some time per month going to church and praying for the dead.

Bad it is not, for sure

Pagusas said:

All generations will go through the same thing.

Also, I wonder who everyone will blame for every bad thing in their life after all the baby boomers are gone.

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Millennials are basically mini boomers. We're in the hippie phase now.

Pagusas said:

Also, I wonder who everyone will blame for every bad thing in their life after all the baby boomers are gone.

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The old blame the young. The young blame the old.

For just a brief moment I read: "baby boomerangs turn to religion" and I was thinking "of course they turn, they are boomerangs!"

But it made no sense

So basically... "I'm nearing death, and I'm afraid of what happens after I close my eyes forever".

I've sadly figured that out a long time ago.