HBO's Confederate Still Has a Pulse [Update: Flatlined]

opus · Jul 26, 2018

Confederate's creative team also includes two prolific African-American writer-producers: Nichelle Tramble Spellman (The Good Wife) and Malcolm Spellman (Empire).

It's so disgusting how they use D&D for promo shots and the main voices for the show, and only drag the Spellmans out as meat shields for criticism.

Bloys insists that all four are "equal partners" on this show, but their actions so far have proven to be anything but. That's why they're not getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

args · Jul 26, 2018

i don't get the backlash. this should be relevant and terrifying in the same way that handmaid's tale was relevant and terrifying... both made so by the trump administration. the "what if we headed down that path?" shouldn't energize racists and bigots... it should energize the good people of the country who swear to never let the country head down that alternative path.

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

PhoenixDark said:
The concept is interesting and isn't anything out of bounds or even particularly new; conceptually it's basically a Civil War centered Man In The High Castle. The only problem I have lies with the showrunners, who have shown little creative viability. Sure they know how to handle a huge show and I'm sure this will be well directed, have some decent acting, look great, etc. But the writing and plotting will likely be trash. Same goes for their Star Wars film, btw. I'd expect both projects to include some pretty underwhelming "grey" characters, in an attempt to recreate what George RR Martin succeeds at, and miss the mark.

I'm glad they aren't allowing a small group of outraged people on the internet to shitcan this before a single script has been written. Let it rise or fall based on whether it's...good or not.

It's a shit idea from shit creators. You're not different or special because you choose to ignore well reasoned arguments on how bad ideas don't need to be made just because. You're just a contrarian

the entire fact the show was thought up by edge lord white dudes who lack the creativity to envision roles for black people that aren't chattel slavery narratives tells anyone with sense that it shouldn't be made

OrdinaryPrime · Jul 26, 2018

args said:
i don't get the backlash. this should be relevant and terrifying in the same way that handmaid's tale was relevant and terrifying... both made so by the trump administration. the "what if we headed down that path?" shouldn't energize racists and bigots... it should energize the good people of the country who swear to never let the country head down that alternative path.

I don't know what the handmaid's tale is about, but I think the issue many people have is that there are a ton of Americans who think the Confederacy should be a thing we remember for 'their history' and do not add any sort of context to it whatsoever. Basically, large swaths of Americans still say shit like 'The South shall rise again!' and get upset when monuments dedicated to white supremacy are taken down.

There is also the fact that the GoT showrunners have done an awful job when adapting non book material for GoT. I don't trust that they will treat the subject with the degree of sophistication that it needs to be successful.

I don't want to spoil The Man in the High Castle but it by no means is strictly just an alternate history, there is significant science fiction involved as well. I think it's bit reductionist to compare the two.

captive · Jul 26, 2018

is it me or is the OP still fucked up? All i see are a bunch of quotes with an occaisional URL.

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

args said:
i don't get the backlash. this should be relevant and terrifying in the same way that handmaid's tale was relevant and terrifying... both made so by the trump administration. the "what if we headed down that path?" shouldn't energize racists and bigots... it should energize the good people of the country who swear to never let the country head down that alternative path.

Because you're not actually listening. It's been more than well explained that "what if we headed down that path?" isn't needed because we literally are down that path and if you think we aren't, you simply don't know enough. Go ahead and watch The 13th on Netflix if you're so curious about what modern day slavery looks like.

We still have monuments to the confederacy all over the country, nothing about this show would be illuminating and no one really wants an expensive sci-fi fantasy hour long slavery drama... shit, most black people are sick of slavery films in general. These are literally the opposite of the kinds of stories that get most black people excited. Honestly, listen

PhoenixDark · Jul 26, 2018

Elegant Weapon said:
It's a shit idea from shit creators. You're not different or special because you choose to ignore well reasoned arguments on how bad ideas don't need to be made just because. You're just a contrarian

the entire fact the show was thought up by edge lord white dudes who lack the creativity to envision roles for black people that aren't chattel slavery narratives tells anyone with sense that it shouldn't be made

There is no well reasoned argument against...a sci fi television show based on alternate history. There are only emotional arguments and tantrums over a product that hasn't even been written yet. If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad...but the genre and theme in of itself are not a problem.

Your second paragraph is your opinion, not fact. I've spent years shitting on Benioff and Weiss for obvious reasons (that boiled down to my opinion, as well). As I said, I like the concept...my issue will be with the writing. From what we know, there will be a writing room and multiple writers. Which are all good things but again, I don't trust them as showrunners in terms of making something original and good. We'll see though. I could be wrong.

fade · Jul 26, 2018

PhoenixDark said:
There is no well reasoned argument against...a sci fi television show based on alternate history. There are only emotional arguments and tantrums over a product that hasn't even been written yet. If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad...but the genre and theme in of itself are not a problem.

Your second paragraph is your opinion, not fact. I've spent years shitting on Benioff and Weiss for obvious reasons (that boiled down to my opinion, as well). As I said, I like the concept...my issue will be with the writing. From what we know, there will be a writing room and multiple writers. Which are all good things but again, I don't trust them as showrunners in terms of making something original and good. We'll see though. I could be wrong.

This. So many kneejerk overreactions to this. Talk about being contrarian. All people are reacting over is A FUCKING PRESS RELEASE. Let's put the pitchforks away until we see some actual substance at least.

AveN7ers · Jul 26, 2018

What? It's a sci-fi?

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

args said:
i don't get the backlash. this should be relevant and terrifying in the same way that handmaid's tale was relevant and terrifying... both made so by the trump administration. the "what if we headed down that path?" shouldn't energize racists and bigots... it should energize the good people of the country who swear to never let the country head down that alternative path.

How could we possibly be headed down the "What if slavery was never abolished?" Did Trump being elected suddenly change the past?

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

PhoenixDark said:
There is no well reasoned argument against...a sci fi television show based on alternate history. There are only emotional arguments and tantrums over a product that hasn't even been written yet. If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad...but the genre and theme in of itself are not a problem.

Your second paragraph is your opinion, not fact. I've spent years shitting on Benioff and Weiss for obvious reasons (that boiled down to my opinion, as well). As I said, I like the concept...my issue will be with the writing. From what we know, there will be a writing room and multiple writers. Which are all good things but again, I don't trust them as showrunners in terms of making something original and good. We'll see though. I could be wrong.

you know, characterizing arguments you disagree with as tantrums don't make you look more reasonable.

You even agree these dudes are trash creators but don't want to call their trash idea trash because you love to be contrary. Nothing they presented is a good idea. That's why only a small amount of people even think it's worth moving forward on.

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
This. So many kneejerk overreactions to this. Talk about being contrarian. All people are reacting over is A FUCKING PRESS RELEASE. Let's put the pitchforks away until we see some actual substance at least.

What's the point of a press release, genius?

Luchashaq · Jul 26, 2018

For how little respect I have for the work of D&D I hope they continue to keep getting attached to stuff I wouldn't ever watch like this and star wars stuff.

The problem is this show is fundamentally uninteresting even if it wasn't a trash ass racist jerk off session.

If the south had won the civil war, they would have eventually turned into a third world country run by religious extremists and then stomped when multiple world powers found them too dangerous.

fade · Jul 26, 2018

Elegant Weapon said:
What's the point of a press release, genius?

To announce a new project. Did you think it was for people to judge the project and burn the creators at the stake?

PhilosopherDirtBike · Jul 26, 2018

The concept could be a really cool show but having the GoT guys do it feels like if Quentin Tarantino directed Selma.

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
To announce a new project. Did you think it was for people to judge the project and burn the creators at the stake?

So regardless of what is being announced no one should be allowed to criticize something until it is actually created?
"Burned them at the stake" huh?

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
To announce a new project. Did you think it was for people to judge the project and burn the creators at the stake?

Yes, people burned the creators at the stake...

I love you "why is everyone so outraged?" people and your idiotic hyperbole.

They announced the show based on nothing but the bad idea it is and there was a resounding groan that should tell them that they probably shouldn't force production on a show that offends most of the audience it ostensibly wants to entertain

saenima · Jul 26, 2018

Enzom21 said:

I'm at work but i'll check it later. Thanks

bobbychalkers · Jul 26, 2018

KTC said:
I'd be interested in seeing this show. The Man In The High Castle has a similar concept with Nazis winning WW2 but people aren't shitting the bed over it.

Nazis went to trial and many were executed. Confederates were made into senators. America still hasn't come to terms with its confederate past and I don't have the most faith in the show runners to really delve into it.

VectorPrime · Jul 26, 2018

Really looking forward to one of the main characters being a rich slaveowner who is written to be sympathetic because he's not outwardly cruel to his slaves and shouldn't we feel bad for him that his families wealth is tied up in human chattel and so he's against abolishing slavery because that would make him financials destitute because shades of grey.

Falconbox · Jul 26, 2018

Can't read the font at all in OP's post, even though a mod said they "fixed" it.

Contramann · Jul 26, 2018

People still hold out hope for this stupid shit?

Falconbox · Jul 26, 2018

I still want to see the show though. I love alternate history stuff like this and Man In The High Castle.

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

Falconbox said:
Can't read the font at all in OP's post, even though a mod said they "fixed" it.

The mod was probably using the dark theme.

Contramann said:
People still hold out hope for this stupid shit?

The desire to see black people as slaves is strong in some folks.

fade · Jul 26, 2018

Elegant Weapon said:
Yes, people burned the creators at the stake...

I love you "why is everyone so outraged?" people and your idiotic hyperbole.

They announced the show based on nothing but the bad idea it is and there was a resounding groan that should tell them that they probably shouldn't force production on a show that offends most of the audience it ostensibly wants to entertain

LOL Yes its the people saying lets actually wait and see what the show is that is being hyperbolic and not the people starting hashtags about how they are already offended about a show where the only information they have is from a fucking press release announcing the project. People in this very thread are already assuming the fucking racist characters that will be in the show. Give me a break. Thank god Handmaid's Tale was a book before it was adapted otherwise that would have had no chance in hell with shit like this.

Mistouze · Jul 26, 2018

KTC said:
I'd be interested in seeing this show. The Man In The High Castle has a similar concept with Nazis winning WW2 but people aren't shitting the bed over it.

That's because, unlike the nazis, the confederates didn't really lose their war.

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
LOL Yes its the people saying lets actually wait and see what the show is that is being hyperbolic and not the people starting hashtags about how they are already offended about a show where the only information they have is from a fucking press release announcing the project. People in this very thread are already assuming the fucking racist characters that will be in the show. Give me a break. Thank god Handmaid's Tale was a book before it was adapted otherwise that would have had no chance in hell with shit like this.

Saying they were burned at the stake isn't hyperbole?
Also:

Enzom21 said:
So regardless of what is being announced no one should be allowed to criticize something until it is actually created?
"Burned them at the stake" huh?

Yes, no?

fade · Jul 26, 2018

Enzom21 said:
Saying they were burned at the stake isn't hyperbole?
Also:

Yes, no?

It's an idiom/expression here is the definition

burn at the stake
1. Literally, to execute someone by tying them to a stake and setting them on fire (a common punishment for hereticsin the Middle Ages). A noun or pronoun can be used between "burn" and "at." Is it true that Joan of Arc was burned atthe stake?
2. By extension, to punish someone harshly or excessively. A noun or pronoun can be used between "burn" and "at."The kids definitely should not have broken curfew, but don't burn them at the stake for it. I think the board wants toburn the ex-CEO at the stake for his corrupt business practices.

See #2? Ya, so no its not hyperbole. Criticism is obviously allowed and I never said it wasn't but this is an overreaction to a press release. Would you like to continue arguing it isn't or did you want to continue arguing semantics?

Contramann · Jul 26, 2018

Enzom21 said:
The desire to see black people as slaves is strong in some folks.

Apparently because people seem to somehow be sold on this being a good idea and really are trying to bend over backwards to justify it . The entire premise for the show is insulting and stupid. Anyone who has just the faintest understanding of what Slavery did or caused in this country should know this is a bad premise. I truly don't understand how people can think even the best writer can make a nuanced and appropriate version of this show. It's going to be just fetishism of the Confederacy and/or Slavery, intentionally or not.

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
LOL Yes its the people saying lets actually wait and see what the show is that is being hyperbolic and not the people starting hashtags about how they are already offended about a show where the only information they have is from a fucking press release announcing the project. People in this very thread are already assuming the fucking racist characters that will be in the show. Give me a break. Thank god Handmaid's Tale was a book before it was adapted otherwise that would have had no chance in hell with shit like this.

Dude, you said burned the creators at the stake. Take a step back and realize that yes you were being idiotically hyperbolic.

People reacting to the press release was why HBO did a press release. this common sense stuff right now. They just didn't like the reaction.

if they wanted people to react to more than the press release, then they should have released a trailer or clip of a scene but they don't have that, they only had the bad idea to announce which reacted to which is the intent of the press release; they just didn't like the reaction to it.

Are people not allowed to be offended by dumb insulting ideas?

Whompa · Jul 26, 2018

As it should! I'm sure they're well aware of the controversy and stakes. Hope they deliver something good, but we'll see.

Enzom21 said:
The main character will most likely be a conflicted white slaver who we're supposed to have sympathy for. And the other lead will be the heroic white savior, who used to be a slaver but got caught up in the negro lust and sees the error of his ways.
It will appeal to MAGAts and white liberals, win win.

That's how I saw it. Although I'm not sure it will be that predictable. Only one way to find out: Let the showrunners tell their story.

Branu · Jul 26, 2018

PhoenixDark said:
There is no well reasoned argument against...a sci fi television show based on alternate history. There are only emotional arguments and tantrums over a product that hasn't even been written yet. If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad...but the genre and theme in of itself are not a problem.

Your second paragraph is your opinion, not fact. I've spent years shitting on Benioff and Weiss for obvious reasons (that boiled down to my opinion, as well). As I said, I like the concept...my issue will be with the writing. From what we know, there will be a writing room and multiple writers. Which are all good things but again, I don't trust them as showrunners in terms of making something original and good. We'll see though. I could be wrong.

You're fine with the potential success of a television show that envisions black people as modern day slaves in a neoconfederacy, televised in an age where actual black people are still relegated to second class status in a state of quasi-apartheid? Really? That doesn't bother you? That's the same thing as Man in The High Castle?

808s & Villainy · Jul 26, 2018

opus said:
It's so disgusting how they use D&D for promo shots and the main voices for the show, and only drag the Spellmans out as meat shields for criticism.

Bloys insists that all four are "equal partners" on this show, but their actions so far have proven to be anything but. That's why they're not getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

They're trying to have their cake and eat it. They only mention the two black writer-producers when they want to combat accusations of racial insensitivity, otherwise it's "Hey, check out this new show by the GOT producers!"

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
It's an idiom/expression here is the definition

burn at the stake
1. Literally, to execute someone by tying them to a stake and setting them on fire (a common punishment for hereticsin the Middle Ages). A noun or pronoun can be used between "burn" and "at." Is it true that Joan of Arc was burned atthe stake?
2. By extension, to punish someone harshly or excessively. A noun or pronoun can be used between "burn" and "at."The kids definitely should not have broken curfew, but don't burn them at the stake for it. I think the board wants toburn the ex-CEO at the stake for his corrupt business practices.

See #2? Ya, so no its not hyperbole. Criticism is obviously allowed and I never said it wasn't but this is an overreaction to a press release. Would you like to continue arguing it isn't or did you want to continue arguing semantics?

I know what it is and how you tried to use it but in this case it is absolutely hyperbole. Criticism of who is doing this project and what the project is isn't burning people at the stake no matter how may times you claim it is.
So you think none of the criticism of this show is valid, correct?

rsfour · Jul 26, 2018

Enzom21 said:
The main character will most likely be a conflicted white slaver who we're supposed to have sympathy for. And the other lead will be the heroic white savior, who used to be a slaver but got caught up in the negro lust and sees the error of his ways.
It will appeal to MAGAts and white liberals, win win.

So you're saying, Brad Pitt is finally doing tv?

PhoenixDark · Jul 26, 2018

Elegant Weapon said:
you know, characterizing arguments you disagree with as tantrums don't make you look more reasonable.

You even agree these dudes are trash creators but don't want to call their trash idea trash because you love to be contrary. Nothing they presented is a good idea. That's why only a small amount of people even think it's worth moving forward on.

I love to be contrary based on what, exactly. This is an odd argument to make when only a small group of people on social media are getting upset and emotional over a show that hasn't even been written or premiered yet. Most people don't care or are withholding judgement until, you know, more information is known/the show comes out. Which is the rational approach.

Yea both are...bad writers (of television, I've heard their novels are good but I haven't read them). But unlike with GoT, (and Star Wars) they aren't writing most of the scripts. So...my concern over them as writers here could be overstated. The concept is fine, but this will live or die based on the story. Which we know little to nothing about. So why jump out the window over it.

Krauser Kat · Jul 26, 2018

Whompa said:
As it should! I'm sure they're well aware of the controversy and stakes. Hope they deliver something good, but we'll see.

That's how I saw it. Although I'm not sure it will be that predictable. Only one way to find out: Let the showrunners tell their story.

Would be awesome if the main characters were 2 black slaves who murder and liberate all the shitty white folk in the "confederate" But we still have to deal with like 2-3 seasons of terrible slave porn. Like a black american version of the show Spartacus.

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

Contramann said:
Apparently because people seem to somehow be sold on this being a good idea and really are trying to bend over backwards to justify it . The entire premise for the show is insulting and stupid. Anyone who has just the faintest understanding of what Slavery did or caused in this country should know this is a bad premise. I truly don't understand how people can think even the best writer can make a nuanced and appropriate version of this show. It's going to be just fetishism of the Confederacy and/or Slavery, intentionally or not.

Meanwhile I doubt any of the folks giddy for this nonsense would be at all interested in something like this:

litebrite said:
If HBO wants to do a big budget alternate history series, I wish they would adapt the two books Lion's Blood and Zulu Heart, written by an African American, where an Islamic Africa became the center of technological progress and colonized the Americas and Europe.

I am sure that wouldn't appeal to them.

Contramann · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
This. So many kneejerk overreactions to this. Talk about being contrarian. All people are reacting over is A FUCKING PRESS RELEASE. Let's put the pitchforks away until we see some actual substance at least.

I don't need to see any further, the starting point alone is enough for me to be angry. This has no where to go except be a tone deaf Confederate-Lover emboldening show. GoT tries to humanize and make you understand all of their evil characters to the point that you COULD sympathize with them. I don't want that kind of shit for Confederate Slave owners who feel like owning slaves in modern times is acceptable. Shit's like making a mini-series about the Emmet Till murder and humanizing the fucking murderers.

hotcyder · Jul 26, 2018

Maybe they'll take some of those great ideas they had forward and apply them to their Star Wars trilogy

Something for the fans that don't like "forced diversity"

OrdinaryPrime · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
This. So many kneejerk overreactions to this. Talk about being contrarian. All people are reacting over is A FUCKING PRESS RELEASE. Let's put the pitchforks away until we see some actual substance at least.

No it's not just over a press release.

1. The concept of the show.
2. The showrunners.
3. America's inability to accept and confront its racist past.

All of those things combine into me saying I don't need your permission to say this is a bad idea.

Footnote: There was a new line above your quote so I figured you were quoting someone I ignored a long time ago. I could easily add 4. agreeing with PhoenixDark about anything.

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

Krauser Kat said:
Would be awesome if the main characters were 2 black slaves who murder and liberate all the shitty white folk in the "confederate" But we still have to deal with like 2-3 seasons of terrible slave porn. Like a black american version of the show Spartacus.

From D&D the "white savior" brothers? I doubt it. You'll get multiple white protagonists and you'll like it!

Elegant Weapon · Jul 26, 2018

PhoenixDark said:
I love to be contrary based on what, exactly. This is an odd argument to make when only a small group of people on social media are getting upset and emotional over a show that hasn't even been written or premiered yet. Most people don't care or are withholding judgement until, you know, more information is known/the show comes out. Which is the rational approach.

Yea both are...bad writers (of television, I've heard their novels are good but I haven't read them). But unlike with GoT, (and Star Wars) they aren't writing most of the scripts. So...my concern over them as writers here could be overstated. The concept is fine, but this will live or die based on the story. Which we know little to nothing about. So why jump out the window over it.

based on your posts. They're usually as thought out as picking the contrary opinion, from my perspective. I don't think I've ever seen you make a good post that wasn't on the same shit.

like you keep saying a small group of people, based on what? the reception to the press release wasn't good and you're saying it was based on a small group of people being upset?

Where is this majority you keep alluding to that is excited for the premise of the show? Wouldn't this excited majority you keep alluding to have made the reception of the press release good and not something HBO had to come out and admit as a misstep?

When you have one of the most celebrated writers in the country penning essays against the premise of the show, why are you insisting on painting the universally accepted poor reception to the press release as "a small group of emotional people on social media"? Didn't Snoop Dogg make a video dogging the premise of the show?

Are the "small group of people on social media getting upset" supposed to be code for "the blacks" or something?

Contramann · Jul 26, 2018

PhoenixDark said:
I love to be contrary based on what, exactly. This is an odd argument to make when only a small group of people on social media are getting upset and emotional over a show that hasn't even been written or premiered yet. Most people don't care or are withholding judgement until, you know, more information is known/the show comes out. Which is the rational approach.

Yea both are...bad writers (of television, I've heard their novels are good but I haven't read them). But unlike with GoT, (and Star Wars) they aren't writing most of the scripts. So...my concern over them as writers here could be overstated. The concept is fine, but this will live or die based on the story. Which we know little to nothing about. So why jump out the window over it.

We do know enough about the story. We know it's in modern times, it's in the Confederacy, Slavery is still going strong. Those three things is all I needed to know to hate it. This could be written by Jordan Peele and directed by Spike Lee, I'd still want none of it. THere's no redeeming this, it's a show that's very premise it's disgusting regardless of how good the intentions are. It's a show that in it's attempt to (they claim) to discuss with sensitivity race relations but in doing so it's going to propose that slavery could exist as a State institution hundreds of years into the modern era. No. This is a shitty idea from it's very base concept.

Enzom21 said:
Meanwhile I doubt any of the folks giddy for this nonsense would be at all interested in something like this:

I am sure that wouldn't appeal to them.

I'm sure it wouldn't, no one wants a show where the actual losers and dispossessed of history actually rise up and have a position of prominence. Let's just have more shows about Nazis winning, or Racists forming their own country successfully.

Deleted member 12224 · Jul 26, 2018

I'd rather watch a prestige drama about the Civil War era than an alt-history prestige drama attempting to make the same modern societal critiques but in a fictionalized setting.

fade · Jul 26, 2018

Enzom21 said:
I know what it is and how you tried to use it but in this case it is absolutely hyperbole. Criticism of who is doing this project and what the project is isn't burning people at the stake no matter how may times you claim it is.
So you think none of the criticism of this show is valid, correct?

No you don't seem to know as the definition states explicitly that it is to judge someone harshly or excessively. Are you denying this is the case? That is not hyperbolic at all. You keep trying to put words in my mouth. I never said none of the criticism isn't valid. It could very well turn out to be just as people are saying. I read Coates piece and AGREE people should be skeptical but I don't think HBO should decide to not do a project they believe in due to overreaction from their press release. It shouldn't stifle creativity. Now if the end product actually turns out to be as people are ASSUMING in this thread then I'll be right there with you. Until then I have faith that HBO isn't interested in producing a shit show that caters to the Rosanne audience. I'm expecting more of a racial Handmaid's Tale , which is lauded with virtually the same premise except with females as chattel instead of blacks as slaves, that actually benefits people of color (I am one myself) then the nightmares people on here are expecting. Maybe that is naive but as I've said I actually want to see some substance first.

Barzul · Jul 26, 2018

KTC said:
I'd be interested in seeing this show. The Man In The High Castle has a similar concept with Nazis winning WW2 but people aren't shitting the bed over it.

Jewish people and African Americans are not the same, I've seen this comparison used several times and it's not a good one at all. For one Jewish people got the State of Israel with the backing of most Western countries and reparations from the German government. Jewish people can also "pass" and hold positions of power in governments that discriminated against them. AA's got none of those things. Just saying. Believe me this show would be a lot more palatable if the discrimination black folks experience wasn't still so palapable.

Llyrwenne · Jul 26, 2018

Falconbox said:
Can't read the font at all in OP's post, even though a mod said they "fixed" it.

Fixed it for real this time. Seems like someone switched the text color to white instead of just removing the previous text color.

I also removed some empty quote boxes and redundant quote tags.

Apologies for the inconvenience.

Enzom21 · Jul 26, 2018

fade said:
No you don't seem to know as the definition states explicitly that it is to judge someone harshly or excessively. Are you denying this is the case? That is not hyperbolic at all. You keep trying to put words in my mouth. I never said none of the criticism isn't valid. It could very well turn out to be just as people are saying. I read Coates piece and AGREE people should be skeptical but I don't think HBO should decide to not do a project they believe in due to overreaction from their press release. It shouldn't stifle creativity. Now if the end product actually turns out to be as people are ASSUMING in this thread then I'll be right there with you. Until then I have faith that HBO isn't interested in producing a shit show that caters to the Rosanne audience. I'm expecting more of a racial Handmaid's Tale , which is lauded with virtually the same premise except with females as chattel instead of blacks as slaves, that actually benefits people of color (I am one myself) then the nightmares people on here are expecting. Maybe that is naive but as I've said I actually want to see some substance first.

Criticism of what the show is who is making the show is not harsh of excessive. You're first post was how this just an announcement and people shouldn't criticize it, correct?
Can you name some criticisms of this concept that you think deem valid?
The show doesn't have to cater to MAGAts for it to be tone deaf as hell.

fade said:
(I am one myself)

Okay... good for you?

PhoenixDark · Jul 26, 2018

Elegant Weapon said:
based on your posts. They're usually as thought out as picking the contrary opinion, from my perspective. I don't think I've ever seen you make a good post that wasn't on the same shit.

like you keep saying a small group of people, based on what? the reception to the press release wasn't good and you're saying it was based on a small group of people being upset?

Where is this majority you keep alluding to that is excited for the premise of the show? Wouldn't this excited majority you keep alluding to have made the reception of the press release good and not something HBO had to come out and admit as a misstep?

When you have one of the most celebrated writers in the country penning essays against the premise of the show, why are you insisting on painting the universally accepted poor reception to the press release as "a small group of emotional people on social media"? Didn't Snoop Dogg make a video dogging the premise of the show?

Are the "small group of people on social media getting upset" supposed to be code for "the blacks" or something?

I can't think of any purposely contrary positions I have. Do I dislike some things that most people like? Sure. I think MCU is trash and think the latter seasons of Game Of Thrones are bad. Meh.

Where did I say a majority are excited about the show? I said: "Most people don't care or are withholding judgement until, you know, more information is known/the show comes out." A small group of people shat on the show with little to no information available, which is why the article in the OP claims the show is controversial. There is no indication the show will struggle or is making enough people mad for it to be a problem. Again...we barely have an information outside of a general premise. Clearly HBO feels the same, as the show is still on track.

In terms of the small group of people on social media getting upset...yea, a lot of them are black. As am I. Couldn't care less, and clearly neither does HBO. If the show fails it'll be on its own merits, not the emotional outbursts of a few people who haven't seen a second of the show or read a word of the script (because, you know, neither exist as of right now), or have any intention of watching it. But I'm sure they'll be retweeting think pieces about it, nonstop.

I've said all I have to say about this, debating reactionaries is a waste of time. I'll watch the first episode and see if I'm right about Benioff/Weiss. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll be great....but I doubt it.

HBO's Confederate Still Has a Pulse [Update: Flatlined]

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