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Falcom almost made a command RPG Ys for the DS
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No.
But I say this as a fan. What they did with Ys sucked especially when you compare it to XSEED's work.
NISA bringing Ys to Switch has a good chance to bring in more new fans to Falcom though and long term increase their audience.
At a cost of worse games.
I would rather they didn't bring to the Switch if it meant worse games.
Ys 8 is just one game, it's not guaranteed every Falcom game from them will end up the same way.
Likewise as someone who'll play the japanese version eventually and only play on Switch, I hope we have a long term collaboration between these two companies.
The question is how similar the architecture between Switch and PS4 is, i have no idea myself. And there also is the fact that their development values have gotten a lot bigger since they started working on sen3's release which was a massive jump in quality on all fronts. They already have said they are outsourcing more aspects of development and they have officially said that they're ceasing in-house porting which gives me the impression that they simply don't have the manpower for more. And then there is the fact that with their support of Sony platforms they got a lot of help back from Sony in getting their games to actually run decently, we saw this with the release of Cold Steel 1 in Japan where the performance was abysmal only getting fixed because Sony stepped in for near-day-one patches.
Even in the past there have been moments where localisation would even go slower because Falcom did not have time to do text-insertion for their partners.
Mind explaining?
All I am seeing is quantity over quality. Falcom's games can't be done justice with NISA.
NISA has proven countless times how bad they are at localising games.
Their history is out there.
Would you mind explaining? Why would having a game being multiplatform mean lower quality?
It would never not be bollocks
Well for your case then I hope you are mistaken since I think we can agree it's realistic that this isn't the last Falcom game NISA will translate.
If someone else was doing the porting and localising then I would agree. NISA however isn't someone I want touching Falcom's games because of how much they fuck up. It is not even exclusive to Falcom's games.
They ruined so many games after touching them, both in performance and localisation.
This is more about NISA completely and utterly botching the Ys 8 localization. XSEED has never needed to almost completely rewrite AND redub almost the entire game with new voice lines to match the new translation because of how shitty and rushed the original translation is.
I would much rather have XSEED properly localize the game and possibly not get a Switch version because of it - and yes, I'm aware the Switch version uses the 'fixed' translation because it came out well after the initial release.
The complete and total fuckups in localization, months and months of delays re: the PC port, and the forcible outbidding of XSEED all make me really despise what happened here, although Falcom isn't exempt from blame here since Kondo is friends with the president of NIS.
Did I say otherwise?
The person I was talking to attempted to justify NISA fucking up the localisation and the ports/performance because they brought the game to Switch. I said I would rather the game not come to Switch if it would mean NISA is the ones who grabbed the game.
Realistically Switch versions will only happen if NISA pick up the game so it's a semantic discussion in the end.
Well in the future, if NISA can give them a Switch version and Xseed can't, it does make their choice easier... I don't think they're too worried about some technical hiccups.
I'd rather play the games vs not play the games so hopefully NISA secures Falcom's entire catalogue in the future.
That would mean a fuck you to the fanbase. I know I won't be the only one not grabbing their games if this happens.
A fuck you to the XSEED fanbase maybe, the people who like Falcom games will continue to buy em you know - like Tokyo Xanadu & YsVIII
That's true, in the end. It took a pretty huge outcry and appearing on Japanese gaming news sites for them to publicly apologize about how crappy the translation is and bother to fix it. I'm glad they did (and the finished product is still worse, even after that, compared to XSEED translations, but it's at least 'good' now) but XSEED is a company that has single-handedly established Trails in the West and revived Ys' popularity through their efforts. It kind of feels like NISA swooped in and wanted to profit off of the foundation that XSEED set up because of how amazing Ys 8 was, and we know for a fact because of employee admission that XSEED did not give up Ys 8 willingly - they fought for it, but NISA 'promising' Falcom a Switch version and a French translation (which was also garbage) as well as NIS' president being cozy with Kondo won out.
It's probably going to happen again, but I really hope it doesn't considering NISA had ONE chance to show everyone that was freaking out about Ys 8's localization pre-release, and then falling flat on their fuckin' face and doing exactly what everyone thought they were going to do.
It's more that XSEED is staffed by a large amount of longtime Falcom fans of multiple decades, and has lore-educated staff that are the most familiar out of any localization company in the West with Falcom's work. They are incredibly passionate and talented people, and it really sucks to see them passed over for a lower quality translation just so it can get put on Switch.
using "XSEED fanbase" is such a meme to divert attention from quality vs. quantity
Out of interest, have you played any of their games outside of Ys 8? Like, I'm pretty sure we'd all be agreeing with you if they hadn't done such an abysmal job with it, especially in comparison to all the other Falcom games brought over by other companies.
So, outside of the friendship thing between the two higher-ups of the companies which you can't work against, the only things that NISA has over XSEED is an additional platform and an additional language translation?
Honest question, what stops XSEED of adding Switch and translators for french to their portfolio/staff? Passion is a nice thing, but i can understand Falcom going with another company if they open up more revenue streams, and this point should even outdo a friendship between decision makers to a certain degree.
As a fan of Falcom's games, I'd play it regardless of who the localisation publisher is - begrudgingly.
That being said, I was very unhappy about how Ys 8 was handled by NISA and all I hope is whoever follows suit - be it XSEED, NISA or another publisher doesn't repeat the same mistakes but is instead at least able to meet the standard of localisation that is expected of the series history.
That being said, I was very unhappy about how Ys 8 was handled by NISA and all I hope is whoever follows suit - be it XSEED, NISA or another publisher doesn't repeat the same mistakes but is instead at least able to meet the standard of localisation that is expected of the series history.
I don't think they hate Nintendo, but this is such an odd answer. Just say you're focused on PS platforms for now and will support other companies bringing your games over.
I see the discussion went into Xseed vs NISA again. A thinly veiled way for console warriors to show their colours.
I see the discussion went into Xseed vs NISA again. A thinly veiled way for console warriors to show their colours.
Furthermore, while on-paper that was the additional checklist that was offered by NISA that surpassed XSEED's offerings, there were clearly more factors beyond that too.
While we wouldn't know how fast XSEED's team would've translated it, NISA promised a relatively ambitious localisation-release timeline - within a year of the Vita release. On top of that, NISA usually has a bigger marketing budget relatively speaking compared to XSEED. Things like bringing Kondo over to AX, etc etc.
On paper - there were so many things that NISA was offering in terms of additional platforms, more language options, bigger marketing support, etc etc. All of those, AND also promising to get them out faster? That's hard to beat.
Of course, NISA ultimately flopped the execution of all of the above. But the dotted line was signed before any of the above even started.
Atleast then one platform would suck. Not everything. And I doubt XSEED would fuck up.
Stop turning this into console war because it is not.
I'm giving this discussion the benefit of the doubt, but yeah - please do not devolve this into veiled console-warring or even XSEED vs NISA-ing.
Tbh I stopped reading since the part when that guy wants falcom to stick to ps4 only, because he will definitely backpedaling once being called out. It's console warring, no matter which way you look at it
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Wait..... why will one console suck?
Edit
On topic, I want a command based Ys now. Especially if it's like the trails games.
At the end of the day(from what Anihawk had said) Ys 8 was already the best selling Ys game at retail before the introduction of the Switch SKU, which has nearly doubled the sales of the game.
It's why the argument that choosing to work with NISA in the future is a "fuck you to the fanbase" rings a bit hollow. The pre-existing fanbase probably isn't even a majority any more and the amount of them who won't just continue to buy them is probably even smaller.
I also wonder if Falcom won't be able to just hand off all localisation programming duties to NIS if they continue to work together, which means they can concentrate purely on their next release in Japan.
I didn't say it would. I was saying it would better if one version sucked than if every version sucked.
I think the thread is getting derailed so I will stop here.
Did/Do they have financial problems? I know translators aren't cheap, so disregarding the additional french translation, it seems strange that a company that was able to support nearly all platforms in the past (even the Wii U of all things ffs) to miss out on a current one, especially if the "logical" predecessor in terms of high-end handhelds is on it's way out. Any information about them getting into problems?
Falcom should make sure the next contract, if there is one, has a paragraph for using actual translators from the beginning on and not only when everyone complains and laughs about the "translation". ^^
Seems a bit of an odd choice to change the structure of a Ys game when pitching it at the DS. Was it at the stage in DS development where it looked like everyone felt they had to fully leverage the two-screen/touchscreen nature of the system? (At which point I could understand looking at a command RPG)
I think it would have been easier to do. It would either be the classic bump to attack combat or classic Zelda. I think the main reason they changed the game play would be because they wanted to do something new.
It's not about financial problems, XSEED doesn't have the manpower or expertise for porting games to the Switch and Marvelous isn't going to spend their resources on porting another publisher's games on XSEEDs behalf. NIS porting Ys 8 to Switch is them going the extra mile.
To be fair - Ys 8 was the first game since the PS2 era that was on a healthy platform. ( PSP was pirated to hell and back, and Vita-only was a niche proposition )
It is difficult to attribute Ys 8's sales success on PS4/V solely on the vantage point of NISA's publishing and marketing prowess.
I will agree on the Switch perspective. Ultimately it is a net positive that NISA was able to offer releasing on an additional platform, and the onus on future pitches will definitely have a consideration on the partner ability to release on multiple platforms.
XSEED's no different from other U.S.-based English loc companies/publishers in that they have to contract port teams to get games ready for release on new, different platforms. NISA has a neat advantage that depends on how many human resources NIS wants to use for Falcom ports—and it's debatable which games they plan to port since NIS might not even think much of older Falcom games' commercial viability. So this leaves XSEED (and DotEmu) a clear opening to get classics from 2001 through 2014 onto Switch so long as they outbid NISA, assuming NIS(A) even bids or proposes to Falcom. XSEED's PC focus has, in general, put them in a much better spot than ever before, so it's more that the market's crunching and NISA's making power moves to reduce their competitive risks (I'm sure XSEED wants the same, but comes from an underdog position as usual).
Also: XSEED very likely lacks financial problems. They prioritize release quality and leanness above many other factors; if they're willing to hire a new editor and social media operator within a year, then that means they're selling plenty. More than anything, time and negotiation matters most once you're in a position to leverage any bid or proposal with extra resources. NISA lucking out with NIS president Niikawa finally convincing his drinking friend to go along with their business plan doesn't preclude XSEED from getting the newest Falcom games, though it makes the situation that much more competitive since Falcom has to look out for its own interests regardless.
NIS "going the extra mile" reads more like a smart but ultimately nepotistic buddy effort with Falcom to buoy the former company's collapsing sales in Japan. I'm not sure how much synergy NIS and their parent company have wrt Switch market strategy anyway. XSEED's still a bit distant from Marvelous, but they're getting into Switch ports starting with guaranteed hits like Fate/Extella (Link) and Tamsoft titles. Marvelous Europe can also start picking up the slack for XSEED in order to do European launches; hopefully Marvelous has taken an interest in its subsidiary's struggle to keep getting new Falcom games.
We have no measured ratio of Ys VIII Switch players becoming Falcom fans vs. fans who started with XSEED releases both old and new. And we're still just out of launch period for Ys VIII on Switch, so the initial fervor's quieted down quickly enough. Regardless, these new players are getting into the rest of the Ys series now on PC/PSP/Vita through XSEED's releases, so it's a mutual benefit which I'm glad to see.
NIS doing all Falcom ports from here on out seems unlikely. The staff roll in Ys VIII Switch lists programmers who regularly work on core NIS series like Disgaea. Opportunity costs abound for NIS if they want to effectively balance porting Falcom games with finishing their own. Meanwhile, Falcom's open to any loc companies and port teams willing to handle everything while Falcom sits back and rakes in their royalty cut.
tl;dr XSEED ain't skipping on Switch if they've done their research and know the stakes of losing Falcom IPs to a historically larger competitor, and I think the crux of this constant debate comes down to us getting the best possible releases of this games where they count. I'm fine with NIS(A) getting Ys if that means XSEED gets the more niche games like Trails, for example.
At the end of the day, Falcom sticks to making their own yearly games (with increasing help from contract teams) for Sony platforms until a paradigm shift forces them to migrate. This could be anything from dwindling home console sales to Sony pulling technical and localization support.
Also: XSEED very likely lacks financial problems. They prioritize release quality and leanness above many other factors; if they're willing to hire a new editor and social media operator within a year, then that means they're selling plenty. More than anything, time and negotiation matters most once you're in a position to leverage any bid or proposal with extra resources. NISA lucking out with NIS president Niikawa finally convincing his drinking friend to go along with their business plan doesn't preclude XSEED from getting the newest Falcom games, though it makes the situation that much more competitive since Falcom has to look out for its own interests regardless.
NIS "going the extra mile" reads more like a smart but ultimately nepotistic buddy effort with Falcom to buoy the former company's collapsing sales in Japan. I'm not sure how much synergy NIS and their parent company have wrt Switch market strategy anyway. XSEED's still a bit distant from Marvelous, but they're getting into Switch ports starting with guaranteed hits like Fate/Extella (Link) and Tamsoft titles. Marvelous Europe can also start picking up the slack for XSEED in order to do European launches; hopefully Marvelous has taken an interest in its subsidiary's struggle to keep getting new Falcom games.
If Kondo should learn anything from the email campaign and media fallout for Ys VIII outside East Asia, it's that experience and reliability matter. NIS can prove they have that, but they're forced to deal with NISA's continuing fumbles while Marvelous doesn't have to worry about XSEED ruining their reputation through action.
I was there when he divulged the info and IIRC the pre-Switch physical sales matched Memories of Celceta's Vita SKU. The Switch release seems to have done great, something I expected, but it's still making up for losses on PC. So it's basically become a race between NISA's console leverage (plus earned notoriety) and XSEED offering sufficient bid items which they know they can deliver without harming players' expectations of their releases.
We have no measured ratio of Ys VIII Switch players becoming Falcom fans vs. fans who started with XSEED releases both old and new. And we're still just out of launch period for Ys VIII on Switch, so the initial fervor's quieted down quickly enough. Regardless, these new players are getting into the rest of the Ys series now on PC/PSP/Vita through XSEED's releases, so it's a mutual benefit which I'm glad to see.
NIS doing all Falcom ports from here on out seems unlikely. The staff roll in Ys VIII Switch lists programmers who regularly work on core NIS series like Disgaea. Opportunity costs abound for NIS if they want to effectively balance porting Falcom games with finishing their own. Meanwhile, Falcom's open to any loc companies and port teams willing to handle everything while Falcom sits back and rakes in their royalty cut.
tl;dr XSEED ain't skipping on Switch if they've done their research and know the stakes of losing Falcom IPs to a historically larger competitor, and I think the crux of this constant debate comes down to us getting the best possible releases of this games where they count. I'm fine with NIS(A) getting Ys if that means XSEED gets the more niche games like Trails, for example.
At the end of the day, Falcom sticks to making their own yearly games (with increasing help from contract teams) for Sony platforms until a paradigm shift forces them to migrate. This could be anything from dwindling home console sales to Sony pulling technical and localization support.
I think you are mistaken. Originally Anihawk said he believes Celceta is still the best selling Ys game but he later corrected that; he was confusing it with the sales of Muramasa on Vita. He then said that Ys 8 PS4/Vita was already the best selling Ys at retail.
As to XSEED/MMV porting games to Switch, that seems like wishful thinking. The only port MMV has done for Switch was Fate/Extella last year and despite that the sequel Fate/Extella Link is not being ported to Switch, even for western release.
Fair correction. Still, I wonder where he gets the numbers from. He's including the LE, too, which got a lot of effort and marketing put into it which evens out the net revenue.
Fate/Extella didn't get a Switch port announcement until later, and the pattern likely follows for Link unless the original game bombed on Switch (which is unlikely). We know Marvelous developers are making full games for the system now, so it's quite possible they can lend porting support when they have less to worry about. And given the increasing commercial prospect of Switch ports, enough contract teams likely have SDKs now, and XSEED's been looking for more console port teams (according to their editor Tom).