LTTP: Cuphead

Psychotron · Jul 25, 2018

SPOILERS AHEAD!

Being that I've been really hooked on 2D platformers lately, I figured it was long overdue that I give Cuphead a shot. I had heard that the difficulty was up there, so I didn't jump on it at release, even though I loved the art style. It was time to change that...

I fired it up and loved the presentation and music right from the first few seconds. Since I expected it to be hard, I was over the moon when I was able to beat the first few bosses rather quickly. Did I mention the art and music were amazing?

Then I hit my first difficulty spike. Though after about ten tries I beat Hilda Berg. That last phase took some learning.

Then came island two and boy did I get a wakeup call. Carnival Kerfuffle was pretty damn hard and took me a lot of tries, but seemed fair. Then I took on this guy and the RNG in the game became apparent. The first attack he does really sets the stage for how far I'd make it.

The last phase was tough as hell with the pyramid lasers and nearly invisible projectile, but eventually I got it. Still loving the game and damn.....what a soundtrack!!

Sugar land boss was just fun as hell. But then came this asshole....

First phase is manageable, but the second really sucked. The fire ball guys either don't attack at all or they absolutely pummel you. Then the final phase gives you hardly any room left on screen and a shit load to dodge. It was the first boss I felt was a bit unfair. The chaser was a big help on this boss as well as smoke bomb.

Overall I really love most of what I've seen so far, with a few exceptions. I'm currently on this boss and think I have most of it figured out already. I'm certainly glad I bought the game.

Side note to those from the visual snow thread. The grain in this game actually has the same effect a YouTube video of static does, in that it actually makes my visual snow lessen for a minute or two if I look off screen. It's nice, lol.

I'll leave you all with this awesome tune...

To be continued....

JeffGubb · Jul 25, 2018

that game is EZ ...

Psychotron · Jul 25, 2018

JEFFREY GRUBB said:
that game is EZ ...

Cuphead is beautiful and a technical marvel, but it is also just a really great, challenging run-'n'-gun-style platformer. I had fun spending time learning and

:)

BojTrek · Jul 25, 2018

I put it on the easiest setting and it was still hard as F for me... to the point that I don't play it... it is such a beautiful game too...

But toooooo damn hard for me. :(

sheaaaa · Jul 25, 2018

I played normal throughout and a few bosses kicked my ass, including the fucking dragon. Fantastic game though, absolute 10/10 for me.

This great Game Maker's Toolkit video sums up the appeal IMO:

JeffGubb · Jul 25, 2018

Psychotron said:
:)

To be fair, I was just making a joke about the tutorial video.

DiceHands · Jul 25, 2018

Dragon is an asshole. Can confirm. Stuck at him currently. That final phase is rough.

melodiousmowl · Jul 26, 2018

Gurrry said:
Dragon is an asshole. Can confirm. Stuck at him currently. That final phase is rough.

Stuck on dagron as well.

TheBeardedOne · Jul 26, 2018

I adore the art style and everything I see from this game simply looks amazing. I don't like really hard games that are hard for the sake of being difficult, so I haven't bothered with it apart from a demo...which was hard.

Septimus Prime · Jul 26, 2018

I played this game on my Surface Pro 3 for that authentic low frame rate feel of old cartoons.

I should probably replay on an actual Xbox sometime.

gfxtwin · Jul 26, 2018

One of the many things that amazes me about Cuphead's game design is how manageable many of the bosses, even ones you were stuck on, can be after beating them. You'd think with gameplay that relies so much on reflexes that it would remain tough on each replay, but I've gotten to where I can breeze through some of the more challenging world 2 and 3 bosses - bosses that seemed impossible to beat at first. Once you get through the grueling difficulty curve you can relax and play the game for fun, no need to change difficulty settings. If this is mostly due to memorizing attack patterns, the game does a good job of hiding the degree in which you need to do that.

dex3108 · Jul 26, 2018

I finished it few weeks ago after I started it day1 :D It definitely is not for everyone and even though I had to take a break for few months before I finished it I really liked it.

NHarmonic. · Jul 26, 2018

The art style is so mesmerizing. It really is such a special game.

base_two · Jul 26, 2018

Played and beat the game a few months after release. Loved it, but the overall difficulty of the game does feel a bit cheap at times due to aggressive use of RNG and tight timing windows. A lot of people will miss out on this game due to how inaccessible the game becomes as it becomes frustratingly difficult and the devs would have been better off if they toned that down a bit for the main game.

Panic Freak · Jul 26, 2018

Dr Kahn was the worst for me. That took me multiple sessions for me to beat

DannyClash · Jul 26, 2018

great game hey

sometimes just worry strictly about defensive moving whilst spamming attack, will get some hits but more importantly will ride out that killer phase

DannyClash · Jul 26, 2018

Dragon final phase is visual distraction, lot of smoke and mirrors, more time than you think, just take a moment and then watch out for the whole screen attack,

Psychotron · Jul 26, 2018

Gurrry said:
Dragon is an asshole. Can confirm. Stuck at him currently. That final phase is rough.

It's just that it hits you with so much at once in a relatively small area. After surviving those jumping flame assholes, you head right into that last phase and are promptly attacked by pokeballs. Then while you're dodging you'll most likely not be ready for the giant flame attack. I'm all for learning the moves but it's hard enough getting to that final phase and staying alive long enough to learn anything. I still can't believe I finally beat him, lol.

Deleted member 15632 · Jul 26, 2018

Playing through this at the moment - i thought "Easy" wasn't an option if you want to progress properly? Sure someone told me you had to beat every boss on regular for it to matter?

sheaaaa · Jul 26, 2018

base_two said:
Played and beat the game a few months after release. Loved it, but the overall difficulty of the game does feel a bit cheap at times due to aggressive use of RNG and tight timing windows. A lot of people will miss out on this game due to how inaccessible the game becomes as it becomes frustratingly difficult and the devs would have been better off if they toned that down a bit for the main game.

I don't think the difficulty was cheap at all, even in the handful of bosses I really struggled with. I thought it was fair throughout, and things were adequately signposted, and getting hit and dying and coming back better is a crucial facet of the core gameplay loop. While there's an argument to be made for accessibility options like those in Celeste, I'm glad the developers made the default experience as challenging as it was, because it was an immensely satisfying game to conquer.

nThou said:
Playing through this at the moment - i thought "Easy" wasn't an option if you want to progress properly? Sure someone told me you had to beat every boss on regular for it to matter?

I believe you can't tackle the final boss if you only beat the rest of the game on easy.

Psychotron · Jul 26, 2018

base_two said:
Played and beat the game a few months after release. Loved it, but the overall difficulty of the game does feel a bit cheap at times due to aggressive use of RNG and tight timing windows. A lot of people will miss out on this game due to how inaccessible the game becomes as it becomes frustratingly difficult and the devs would have been better off if they toned that down a bit for the main game.

I don't usually support toning down difficulty because it's so satisfying beating a tough enemy, but the RNG is a bit ridiculous at times. I think the scales are tipped just a bit too much toward the frustrating as the game goes on, but it's still unique as hell.

ArjanN · Jul 26, 2018

RNG basically plays no role at all.

The platforming levels are the same every time. Sure, every boss phase has 2-3 different attacks but they those are all telegraphed in advance. If you're taking hits it basically just means you either don't know how to dodge certain attacks, or you're not paying enough attention to the tells. Outside of maybe a couple of the later levels, the physical dexterity required is actually pretty low. It's way more about learning the patterns/tells.

Dphex · Jul 26, 2018

on normal it wasn´t so hard, at least not for people playing such games since the 90´s. Expert mode on the other hand...

Ravelle · Jul 26, 2018

I believe I got to 54% of the game or something, I know I defeated the Fulture and that Dragon and that I got stuck on the bee queen.

Psychotron · Jul 26, 2018

Dphex said:
on normal it wasn´t so hard, at least not for people playing such games since the 90´s. Expert mode on the other hand...

I've been playing since the 80's lol. I know, I'm old. Though I know I don't completely suck because I was able to beat Hollow Knight and all the optional bosses, just beat Ori and love Dark Souls games. I'm used to games that punish sloppy play. I've really loved the majority of the bosses I've faced in the game so far, but some just really pissed me off. Getting to the bosses final phase only to be wrecked before you have a chance to properly learn patterns can be irritating. I'm still playing it and my opinion of it is still overwhelmingly positive, even if my frustrations seem to show through more.

m23 · Jul 26, 2018

The game is a classic, I loved it. There were definitely frustrating moments on some bosses, but every attack has some sort of warning before it happens. I didn't really blame the game very much at all when I died.

Surprised myself once I finally beat it as I didn't think I'd be able to. The platforming levels were the weakest part of the game, could have done without them.

Nocturnowl · Jul 26, 2018

I reached the third area myself yesterday, I'd actually done all the bosses in the OP in co-op on someone elses copy last year so I've only just hit what for me is new content.

It's amazing how even a short final phase of a boss that may only last seconds can still have so much love and effort poured into it.

ekimneems · Jul 26, 2018

Just beat the dragon this week, so a couple of tips:

Second phase (march of the fireballs) - hang out at the top of the screen, use chase and face away from the dragon. Then all you have to do while holding down fire is look at the direction those little jumpers are facing before they jump and dodge. With this strategy this phase actually became super easy

Last phase - Do not go into the "middle" (vertically) of the screen unless you have to dodge one of those round bubbles. Do NOT shoot the round bubbles. Simply focus on dodging and then use charge attack to fire off at the dragon when you can. As long as you're hanging out on the top or bottom clouds you will dodge the fire stream

Hope that helps

Piston · Jul 26, 2018

The two toughest bosses are yet to come for you. The Dragon I had the most trouble with through the first two areas, Dr. Kahn and Mr. King Dice were worse for me.

The funny thing about Mr. King Dice is that I actually ended up beating him on a run where I faced every boss I could possibly have faced. It took me easily 2-3 hours to beat him and Kahn each.

Tip: If you aren't using the dash you probably are playing wrong, that shit is pretty essential in my opinion.

Durante · Jul 26, 2018

The only thing I didn't like about this game is the card phase.

Psychotron · Jul 26, 2018

ekimneems said:
Just beat the dragon this week, so a couple of tips:

Second phase (march of the fireballs) - hang out at the top of the screen, use chase and face away from the dragon. Then all you have to do while holding down fire is look at the direction those little jumpers are facing before they jump and dodge. With this strategy this phase actually became super easy

Last phase - Do not go into the "middle" (vertically) of the screen unless you have to dodge one of those round bubbles. Do NOT shoot the round bubbles. Simply focus on dodging and then use charge attack to fire off at the dragon when you can. As long as you're hanging out on the top or bottom clouds you will dodge the fire stream

Hope that helps

I beat him last night, but your advice is spot on. I did eventually go with the chaser and just focus on avoiding those fire jerks. It did take me forever to realize that the orbs only blew apart if you shot them, because I went into that phase still using the chaser, which was attacking the fire orbs automatically. I eventually switched back to the pea shooter for that phase.

Piston said:
The two toughest bosses are yet to come for you. The Dragon I had the most trouble with through the first two areas, Dr. Kahn and Mr. King Dice were worse for me.

The funny thing about Mr. King Dice is that I actually ended up beating him on a run where I faced every boss I could possibly have faced. It took me easily 2-3 hours to beat him and Kahn each.

Tip: If you aren't using the dash you probably are playing wrong, that shit is pretty essential in my opinion.

I'm using smoke dash. It was one of the first things I got. After playing Hollow Knight, I mapped it to the right trigger and felt right at home. I've heard horror stories about Doctor Kahn. Can't wait, lol.

Psychotron · Jul 26, 2018

I really had fun during this fight. I know some had issues with the pac-man thing, but it was fine for me. This gif is from my actual fight...

Piston · Jul 26, 2018

I used the Charge Beam pretty much the whole way until the final boss, I can't remember what I had to use there, but I switched it up.

SoundLad · Jul 26, 2018

Such a great game. I still need to finish it as I have a boss or two left on the third island. One of them seems almost impossible to me though (Dr. Kahl). Must set aside some time for ol' trial and error.

Septimus Prime · Jul 26, 2018

The boomerang is pretty underrated, but it's better than the pea shooter in every way.

francium87 · Jul 26, 2018

I"ve only played the game on Easy (almost at the end of the game now, from what I understand easy doesn't unlock the final boss), still really challenging for me. I'm actually on the side of supporting the easy mode having cut out sections, so I still have new boss transformations to see when I (eventually, maybe) switch to normal.

At this rate I might get things done by the time the DLC drops...

Alethiometer · Jul 26, 2018

I could deal with the difficulty, but the fact that the patterns are random and there's often too much particles on the screen killed the game for me. I just can't play bullet hells. Looks and sounds great, though.

Jobbs · Jul 26, 2018

The animation and designs are great to look at, but one thing that always bothered me about Cuphead is how little interactivity you have with most bosses. Other than when you deplete their HP to the point that they either die or go to their next stage, they pretty much don't react to anything you do -- ever. They'd be doing the same thing whether you were there or not. For me this is endlessly distracting.

Smokeymicpot · Jul 26, 2018

Great game. I am trying to get A on all the levels on regular mode right now. Trying Expert on some levels on the way.

Nocturnowl · Jul 26, 2018

Yo I just got my first A+/perfect clear...
On Dr Kahl's Robot!

I'm pretty chuffed right now. Considering my prior attempt had me die right at the last moment this was the perfect retribution.

cb1115 · Jul 26, 2018

Cuphead was too stressful for me to finish but it definitely featured some of my favorite game music from last year

TheFuzz · Jul 26, 2018

Psychotron said:
I don't usually support toning down difficulty because it's so satisfying beating a tough enemy, but the RNG is a bit ridiculous at times. I think the scales are tipped just a bit too much toward the frustrating as the game goes on, but it's still unique as hell.

This is my thing. I love difficult games when the gameplay is so good that it's still fun. But some of the bosses are so difficult it gets to the point where it's just annoying. The patterns can be inconsistent, too.

Psychotron · Jul 26, 2018

Nocturnowl said:
Yo I just got my first A+/perfect clear...
On Dr Kahl's Robot!

I'm pretty chuffed right now. Considering my prior attempt had me die right at the last moment this was the perfect retribution.

Congrats! I haven't made it there yet but I'm sure I'll be raging over it tonight.

Nocturnowl · Jul 26, 2018

Devil down, damn, what a fantastic game.
I'd always had doubts beforehand, thinking that the commitment to the visual style would muddy the action or create imprecision.
And also that I've never gelled too strongly with shooting focused action platforming bosses, so I really didn't expect to come out of this game as impressed as I am.

There's definitely a learning process for each boss but that aside it rarely feels cheap thanks to strong telegraphing and the generous dodge invulnerability upgrade, now I'm going to go back to the X collection and feel like its bosses are complete booty.

Psychotron said:
Congrats! I haven't made it there yet but I'm sure I'll be raging over it tonight.

Cheers, even snuck it another A+ with King Dice

Deleted member 2317 · Jul 26, 2018

Hands down the best co-op experience I've played in years and an absolutely perfect game.

Seeing this thread made me realize that if I ever had buckets of cash, I'd design a custom Cuphead cabinet to play two player all the time. It's so incredible.

Nocturnowl said:
Yo I just got my first A+/perfect clear...
On Dr Kahl's Robot!

I'm pretty chuffed right now. Considering my prior attempt had me die right at the last moment this was the perfect retribution.

Damn, that's wild- the robot was a grueling level for me.

From cursing the first few levels to

beating Dice without taking a hit and getting an A on The Devil

I was just constantly amazed.

base_two said:
Played and beat the game a few months after release. Loved it, but the overall difficulty of the game does feel a bit cheap at times due to aggressive use of RNG and tight timing windows. A lot of people will miss out on this game due to how inaccessible the game becomes as it becomes frustratingly difficult and the devs would have been better off if they toned that down a bit for the main game.

I really feel it all becomes manageable after a few days of retries, if that many. We were averaging two to three levels a day at our best.

impact · Jul 26, 2018

One of the best games of all time. The game just excels in every area.

JustinH · Jul 26, 2018

I absolutely adored this game and can't wait until the DLC comes out.

I'd probably say I didn't have too much trouble with it other than some "problem areas," but that's just on Normal. Expert freaking kicks my teeth in. I still have to work out how I'm going to get a P in those last two run'n'guns too.
I laughed pretty hard at myself when I was playing and I failed here.

Psychotron said:
I really had fun during this fight. I know some had issues with the pac-man thing, but it was fine for me. This gif is from my actual fight...

I think I liked using the boomerang weapon for that boss so it'd hit her no matter which way I was facing and I could concentrate on dodging but still hit her just by holding down the button.

For the Dragon boss...

http://xboxclips.com/chinohormann/8e2b8810-a755-44a9-ae4a-b97713a14dbc
The Lobber weapon made it so much easier for me I think because it hits harder and it arcs downward. When the fire guys came out, I found it best to just stop and try to figure out where they were going to jump before reacting as I'd take a hit if I just jumped right away. Just make sure on the last phase you stop shooting when he shoots out his balls and just dodge them. It's easier to avoid them if you don't hit them and make them split apart.

poseph · Jul 26, 2018

I had a lot of fun playing one player. I feel like the game may have benefited from 5 HP instead of 3 HP and maybe some way to regain health in a single run (multiple successful parries? idk). Really great game, pretty much made me put down DOOM completely, which I was playing at the same time.

I loved the callbacks to Gunstar Heroes too, one of my favs.

Figuring out which loadouts to use for each boss was like half the fun too haha. Some weapons DEFINITELY shine over others when you wouldn't expect.

A Ream of Paper · Jul 26, 2018

My favorite game of 2017. Definitely was a surprise for me and I can't wait for the DLC. Some bosses I remember having the most trouble with were Grim Matchstick, Dr. Kahn, and King Dice.

Admiral Woofington · Jul 26, 2018

worst boss is the doctor in the robot.

FUCK THAT last part lmao

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