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US PoliERA 2018 |OT7| Tell Me The Bad Things That Happened Since I Fell Asleep
- Thread starter Midnight Jon
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Trump is piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissed. Ooh, today's gonna be fun. If he "heard" there are other clients recorded, doesn't that have to mean Hannity? GIVE IT TO ME!
Trump: Can't have visitor log scandals if you don't have visitor logs.
Cohen had 3 clients : Trump, Broidy and Hannity. Chances are Cohen taped them all.
I can't tell if I'm out of touch or if I'm just wrong on this one or both but the Demi Lovato thread is making me feel weird. Addiction is a disease and she should get help, but there's this pushback against the idea she's culpable for like, you know, obtaining and doing hard drugs? She's this famous rich white woman and people fall over themselves to excuse her when she did a super bad thing and as far as I know wasn't like born addicted to heroin. Tell me why I'm wrong. I'm open minded on this.
I'm not all trumpy like LAW AND ORDER!!! (Granted she'd never see law and order because she's white) but really people have no issues here? I think she should get help and get better and then she's in trouble imo.
I'm not all trumpy like LAW AND ORDER!!! (Granted she'd never see law and order because she's white) but really people have no issues here? I think she should get help and get better and then she's in trouble imo.
I guess some staffers could wash their hands of l'affaire russe because they came in after the inauguration... but stuff like this makes you realise, nah, they're all complicit.
When it comes to addiction I always find it hard to assign blame to a person, especially in a relapse situation. They have enough problems without assigning some sort of moral failing.
The irony is Trump was known to record people too. Remember his threat to Comey? Sure he was lying but the hypocrisy is amazing.
Sometimes addiction is a result of self-medication. It's tough to blame someone who starts doing drugs like that in that case, just like it's tough to blame the majoeity of opioid addicted people in the opioid crisis for being addicted.
Sometimes it really isn't their fault.
So while on the surface I might agree with you, there are caveats to that, nuances to this problem, that can't be explained by "personal responsibility."
As soon as you start thinking like that, you've become as bad as a Republican who will claim with their noses turned up that you should decide to starve to death rather than steal food to survive.
Curious as to how much an entree like that would run me. ;)
Hire shitty, corrupt lawyers, win shitty prizes.
She's been in show business since she was a toddler on Barney and Friends, has diagnosed bipolar disorder, and has struggled with eating disorders. It would be surprising if she wasn't a drug addict. So I do have a fair bit of sympathy for her despite not really being a fan of her music or anything.
I think it's not an indelible problem for people to have moral failings. I have them all the time. Just gotta try to realize them and correct them. If doing heroin (like the first time I guess) is not a moral failing in your mind, I could see that.
So where do you draw the line between where it is someone's fault vs where it isn't? Your post implies some people are doing drugs not to self medicate. How do you determine?
I am asking myself if it matters. I guess it doesn't except to the extent I want to live in a society where people don't do heroin (or perhaps more accurately deal or buy heroin or heroin derivatives) so I'm thinking about how to design a system that encourages that. Putting people in jail is probably not the answer, but the responses I see don't seem to be either.
I don't know Demi's situation and I of course hope she recovers but if someone with all the resources in the world to help with addiction and mental illness doesn't get the help she needs, perhaps we don't do it right.
She does have bipolar disorder, which probably makes the situation way harder for her. Considering her past issues with addiction as well it's more like a monkey already on her back, as opposed to sticking her hand in the cage. Plus considering it started so young with her, and follows the atypical child star spiral, there's a lot of places to find sympathy.
I can see what you're getting at, and I think there should be some attempt at personal responsibility with these things. Overcoming addiction is freaking hard, though, and you need a broad support network and changes in lifestyle. Some of that she can do herself, other elements are somewhat out of her control. Add on top of that some predisposition to addiction which is a totally real thing. We don't know how this all started for her, and I generally give benefit of the doubt on stuff like this.
That said I don't consider it some kind of failure that should further ruin someone's reputation or their lives. People get to addiction via a lot of different means, through varied levels of things they can do to fight it. Treatment works and that should be the focus.
Semi-related, but I'd like to take this opportunity to bitch about the stigma against mental illness. A celebrity can overdose and get millions of thoughts of support, but if someone dare come out and say they're bi-polar, even if they're being treated fully and correctly they're shunned from society in an instant. Fuck that. You can be revealed as a Literal Nazi or a rapist in entertainment and the media and get off easier than someone bold enough to reveal a mental illness.
no, he is referencing Hannity as being recorded, and in teh OT thread about teh tape. theres a video of Hannity from last night.
his voice was breaking and shaking.
Hannity is terrified that cohen recorded conversations.
I think cohen is taunting trump now. I think any hope of a pardon is now gone.
Cohen knows he's doomed, so now he's going to bite the ankles of trump and taunt him as Coehn takes everyone who worked with him down.
Did she do something besides just relapse into heroin addiction or do you consider doing heroin inherently immoral?
$35
We don't do it right. That much is certain. From the way we make mental illnesses a taboo as a society to the difficulty of treating them with even the best medicines, to the majority having trouble getting access to them at all, precious few holding areas for consistent treatment of said illnesses, and laws that basically let someone leave what places there are and hasn't treatment altogether, it's an enormous problem.
Often times, addiction comes from prescriptions and untreated pain, or mental anguish. It could be that she did in fact, feel that her medication was suffocating her music, but heroin dealt with the effects of being bipolar without the extra side effects of making her barely capable of functioning.
Importantly, we don't actually know, so judgment this early is a bit uncouth.
Just a general observation, but the building GOP freakout over the scourge of Democratic Socialism is a look at the 2016 playbook against Sanders if he had been the nominee. They laid off him and/or tacitly stoked socialist sentiment for obvious reasons, and now they are going to try to put the redistributive toothpaste back in the tube.
It's quite possible that they were too clever by half and now the landscape has changed. I think they both want this fight and are scared of it at the same time. But they are definitely going to try to make "socialism" as dirty a word as it used to be and label the entire party with it.
It's quite possible that they were too clever by half and now the landscape has changed. I think they both want this fight and are scared of it at the same time. But they are definitely going to try to make "socialism" as dirty a word as it used to be and label the entire party with it.
Yeah you're probably right. Now that it's been up long enough for me to brag I'll go back and scrub it. Thanks for looking out.
I dunno, feels pretty lucid to me. Admittedly, I translated what was written there as "Sean Hannity and I both just had a talk about the shit Cohen has on us" rather than what he actually said, but it's pretty clear to me. Many reporters. Only one listed reporter client of Cohen's. You guys know I ain't wrong, right?
I'm not sure. Part of me says people should be able to do what they want and consequences seem mostly localized (her doing heroin doesn't really affect me), but there's something inside me saying doing drugs is wrong. Like morally wrong. And I dunno if this is years of DARE or something but I'm not okay with people doing heroin.
If you have someone do drugs for the first time, is that a problem? Assuming no addiction or underlying driver, I would say yes, but not sure why. I guess we should start there.
As a former opiate addict I can speak to this a little. Having the means to do rehab etc usually means you have the same means to buy copious amounts of drugs and it's hard to take that leap to not using anymore. At a certain point your brain is literally rewired (that's why we call it a disease) and stepping away becomes more and more difficult.
Your very question is one I and other addicts struggle with in our recovery daily: how do I acknowledge my own guilt and culpability while also accepting that parts of my addiction have been out of my control. There's been new research in the last decade that's also suggesting that many addicts are in fact "born" addicts they just don't have a specific addiction yet. I don't recall the exact mechanisms or reasons but essentially it's a hard wired problem in the brain at birth with at least some addicts.
Add in mental health and abuse issues and someone is going to start looking to self medicate fairly early on and it can be a vicious cycle. Relapse is part of the game for many addicts though so there's hope for her yet. I know I fell flat on my face 100's of times before it stuck but I've been clean for almost a decade now and haven't looked back at all.
I'd also add that lots of rehab facilities are a joke and don't really treat the underlying mental issues (although it sounds like she at least had the right idea with the sober living house) or give you the necessary tools to survive once you're in the outside world. Addiction in general though needs far more resources devoted to it. Spaces at the good rehabs, subsidized maintenance meds, a "rebranding" of addiction so half the country don't think it's just a bootstraps thing. I'm sure if I hadn't just woken up I could think of more things to do but those would be a start
Thanks, I'm not super worried about it, but taking minimal precaution is a good idea.
WTH man, with $5 left over I could got myself some Manicotti, a quart of Ministrone, a whole damn loaf of bread and wash it down with the sweet satisfaction that everyone can suck my dick because I'm eating Italian FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOd
Just wanted to add it looked great. We do several dishes with aerated sides "whipped" burratta, pureed white beans, etc. Love that kind of stuff. Basically when I see out kitchen break out the whip cream machine I know I'm in for a treat. What they hell do they call those things anyway? Aersol dispersement cannisters? We literally get ours from a head shop down the block lol
Going to echo a sentiment I made in the last thread because now it's actually relevant:
What kind of lawyer would tape a client?
1. A lawyer who knows his client is untrustworthy and that the client might eventually blame the lawyer for the client's crimes;
2. A lawyer who is actively enabling a criminal and needs some form of protection from that criminal;
3. A lawyer who might himself be working with Russians to produce kompromat;
4. A lawyer who is also an FBI Informant.
Pick one. Or fuck, pick several -- you never know.
What kind of lawyer would tape a client?
1. A lawyer who knows his client is untrustworthy and that the client might eventually blame the lawyer for the client's crimes;
2. A lawyer who is actively enabling a criminal and needs some form of protection from that criminal;
3. A lawyer who might himself be working with Russians to produce kompromat;
4. A lawyer who is also an FBI Informant.
Pick one. Or fuck, pick several -- you never know.
Hannity is the only other "reporter" Trump could be referring to in that tweet. You could kind of see it on his face last night that he knew the tapes existed. Wonder what this "real estate" actually dealt with. Didn't Cohen really just deal with stuff like paying people off?
I think that's years of DARE, tbh. Humans are born wired to enjoy experiencing altered states of consciousness to some degree, it's why little kids spin around to make themselves dizzy, and why some form of intoxication (usually alcohol) has been prevalent in every major human culture. Heroin is pretty visceral, especially with injection, so having a visceral reaction to the idea can be expected. But I don't think there's anything inherently immoral about doing a drug itself, although when addiction develops it can lead till other immoral behavior like scamming people for money, but people also do those kinds of things without being addicted to drugs.
I know the meme but for the record we do have free bread like any civilized restaurant.
Maybe I'm way off base but my thought process is that nobody would do heroin in the first place unless they're largely ignorant of its effects or they're already in a place where it seems like their only option. I don't ever think about it from a celebrity perspective tho
I'm not generally ok with people doing hard drugs, but I don't think it's immoral. Neither is drinking alcohol or smoking weed. They're just substances with different properties. Some people have imbalances in their personal chemistry which makes them more susceptible to abusing these substances. I don't see why it has to be anything more than that.
Edit: To put it more practically, I don't see what utility labeling it as anything more than that based on subjective values would have.
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